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View Full Version : <3.5> From Commoner6 to E6: A Campaign Idea



balistafreak
2010-04-22, 08:18 PM
Even though I'm already up to my ears DMing another campaign...

Well, actually, that's wrong. I was inspired by my current campaign.

Everyone's aware of the inherent rocket tag at the opening first few levels, where getting critted by a greataxe can take you from full to dead before you can say "jackknife" and casters have to hold their one spell very, very close to their chest. I had to shrug and say to my (1st level) players at least three times, "Normally you would be dead right now, but I hate beginning level random death, so you're at -1 instead."

This made me very unhappy.

Now, I've thought long and hard about where I wanted to put my players at the end: 6th level as the sweet spot, very slowly climbing up to 10th level as the world's version of "epic". Basically, the world's high fantasy with the occasional Wuxia superman.

Next, I want to make the players feel as if they're special. Not DM-fiat special, not overpowered-houserule special, just special. At the same time, I really wanted to confirm that they weren't starting out as supermen, just somewhat better than average. But not "apprentice-to-a-hero" better-than-average, which is what I feel a standard 1st level character is. They've seen and learned a lot of life, far more than most their age have.

The whole point? Start them as Commoner6.

Assume that in our (non-Tippy) universe, the vast majority of people are Commoner1s. A Commoner6 has a PC-class-esque step above these people.

Where Commoner1s have +0 BAB and saves, our Commoner PCs have +3 and +2, respectively. This is huge at ECL1. The (future) fighter with a +2 Strength modifier now hits AC 15 on 11+, not 14+, which is a massive boost. A DC 12 save (say a 1st level Color Spray) is now resisted on 8+, not 10+, assuming the same +2 attribute modifier. That's a 20% improvement, which is sufficent to make a character heroic by Commoner standards.

You're also ridiculously tough by Commoner1 standards, six Hit Dice having obvious advantages over one. A Commoner1 has 2.5 HP on average, maybe 3.5 on a good day with a +1 Constitution modifier. The average hit from a shortsword wielded by a +1 Strength fighter will take him "dying". Our Commoner6 PC has 16.5 HP on average (don't forget PCs also get full health from the first Hit Die), getting an additional +6 from each point of Constitution modifier. (A problem with this system might be an overemphasis on the benefits of positive Constitution. Hmmm.)

Now, to keep one part of this simple, all skill-points and feats assumed to be spent in non-PC, non-relevant skills. (Craft (basketweaving) comes to mind.) But still remember that you'll have 5 ranks over the heads of your brethren, making you a exemplar of your chosen field. For example, a Commoner1 with 4 ranks can get DC 14 taking 10, which is just shy of making "high quality items" (things like bells, DC 15). Yet our PC, adding his five ranks and most likely some sort of stat modifier, can hit "complex or superior item" (things like locks, DC 20) and make masterwork components (DC 20).

As for "levelling up", you don't. Instead, you swap a level of Commoner for whatever level you're taking, becoming a Class1/Commoner5 and so on. Instead of levels feeling tacked on and a bit unwieldly, there's a feeling of true, natural growth. When you take a level of Wizard, you don't get tougher, but you get a spell-list. When you take a level of Fighter, suddenly you get more than twice as tough for that level (5.5 HP average vs 2.5) and your ability to hit things doubles for that level as well (1 BAB vs 0.5). Put the skillpoints into actual adventurer abilities and take your feats where applicable.

Whereas a Commoner1 might (rightfully) shy away from a Warrior1 soldier or Adept1 village elder, a Commoner6 can blow them off with relative ease. Even when the Fighter2 sergeant threatens to make a scene, the Commoner6 can still hope to punch him in the face. Probably the biggest boon I see is negating HD-dependent spells: when the scoundrel Bard1 tries to Daze (4HD or lower) or the aspiring necromancer Wizard1 tries to make him run away in Fear (5HD or lower), our Commoner6 will blink - and punch him in the face.

Now in gameplay terms, what do you guys think? I'd normally spend another hour developing my ideas, but instead I need to go do Calculus work, so yeah. I think I've uncovered a gem here, and don't want to see it fall away without any love.

KnightOfV
2010-04-22, 09:20 PM
It's a neat idea, and it could really work in the right group. The idea of starting out as an everyman and slowly 'growing' into your class is a cool one. I dislike it personally because to me level 1 is just too limiting in 3.5 and to me it takes more than a few hp and bonus to saves to make combat interesting that low.

Maybe you should just start the players out at Level 3 so they can get more hp, and more spells/abilities from the start. Then they don't die in one hit, and casters get a few spells to throw around each day. If you want them to stay humble, keep their starting wealth low- its amazing how fragile characters stay without their fullplate, magic swords, and piles of scrolls. I dislike starting at 1 for the exact same reasons you mentioned, and now I just skip the first two levels completely making sure my players are aware that they are experienced in their field from the start and incorporate that in their backstory. That's what works for my group anyway.

Pluto
2010-04-22, 09:53 PM
The first level-up's going to be a doozy.

Feats are going to be clumsy and HP is going to be really awkward.

Otherwise, it's not a bad idea.

Merk
2010-04-22, 09:55 PM
This is actually really awesome. I'd probably enjoy a campaign like this.

For the HP/CON issue, you might set starting HP to 16 + Con mod (so you only get it once, not once per HD) but then every traded in level gets con mod to HP as normal.

So Com6 has 16 + Con mod HP, Com4 / Fighter 2 has 16 + 2d10 + 3x con mod HP, etc.

Touchy
2010-04-22, 10:00 PM
The first level-up's going to be a doozy.

Feats are going to be clumsy and HP is going to be really awkward.

Otherwise, it's not a bad idea.

HP won't be awkward if he uses 3/4 static HP gain.

Gan The Grey
2010-04-22, 10:27 PM
Let me start off by saying that I am a HUGE proponent of E6 as is, and I am currently in the process of writing out an entire campaign setting based around the general theme of discovery. I have also always been naturally inclined to railroad my players through a complex story line, but I am now designing this world around the exact opposite idea. Other than setting out the general rules for how different groups work and establishing myriad random encounter charts of varying CR, I will not impose any sort of story on them.

As such, there is a very good chance that, upon setting one foot into any wilderness setting, they will encounter something capable of ending them. Without a little intelligence (and, admittedly, some luck), their characters probably won't make it to higher levels.

And that's sort of the point. Higher levels in E6 are supposed to be rare. They are supposed to be the top dawgs of the setting. High level characters are special, and they are supposed to appear special to your players. 6th level is something that should be earned, otherwise players will take it for granted.

Random death at low levels sucks, yes, but it really helps give players who have reached higher levels a feeling of accomplishment.

Just my two cents.

abandon hope
2010-04-22, 11:37 PM
And that's sort of the point. Higher levels in E6 are supposed to be rare. They are supposed to be the top dawgs of the setting. High level characters are special, and they are supposed to appear special to your players. 6th level is something that should be earned, otherwise players will take it for granted.

Random death at low levels sucks, yes, but it really helps give players who have reached higher levels a feeling of accomplishment.E6. One party wiped in a TPK wandering into lower level mooks in mass. Half the second attempt in the same world are dead at the end of the second session. The remainder and replacements are too scared to consider continuing and have set off in the opposite direction. My players are RPing refugees. Is that the point?

IRL it's an extraordinary individual who can consistently survive an encounter on equal footing with a single individual. 3.5 does a decent job in imitation. RP an organization realistically, and there will never be a single individual. Should the campaign be a one on one sort of thing? Tale of vengeance drawn out for mechanical reasons? Or should the organizations be alignment/stupid? Or is E6 as survival horror a fine thing?

The point is, balistafreak may have a cunning plan for a different style of play that enables a higher fantasy or better variety of fantasy in both game play and campaign plot. Not for me, but there's merit.

Gan The Grey
2010-04-23, 01:40 AM
E6. One party wiped in a TPK wandering into lower level mooks in mass. Half the second attempt in the same world are dead at the end of the second session. The remainder and replacements are too scared to consider continuing and have set off in the opposite direction. My players are RPing refugees. Is that the point?

IRL it's an extraordinary individual who can consistently survive an encounter on equal footing with a single individual. 3.5 does a decent job in imitation. RP an organization realistically, and there will never be a single individual. Should the campaign be a one on one sort of thing? Tale of vengeance drawn out for mechanical reasons? Or should the organizations be alignment/stupid? Or is E6 as survival horror a fine thing?

The point is, balistafreak may have a cunning plan for a different style of play that enables a higher fantasy or better variety of fantasy in both game play and campaign plot. Not for me, but there's merit.

Let me start by saying I hope I understand the gist of your post. :smallsmile:

Surviving an encounter doesn't always mean beating them in a fight. E6 should teach players to be smart about their encounters in a way that general d20 does not. The point is that you are NOT an all-powerful whatever. Things that are dangerous to a party of level 1's will still be SOMEWHAT dangerous to level 6's. You have to learn better tactics than just 'beat over the head with metal weapon and hope to survive'.

E6 isn't a survival horror. It's all about intelligence and balance between the heroes and the mooks. If a few deaths don't teach your players that, maybe E6 isn't for them. My players are slowly starting to get that they have to think further than just smashing things. And they are getting more out of the games because of it.

Brendan
2010-04-23, 06:32 AM
I'm actually doing an e6 campaign where the characters start out with three levels in an NPC class (other than adept) and slowly become PCs and adventurers. this sort of follows your idea I guess. It works well, as they're not just people who randomly became superpowered, but instead, say, the town blacksmith who learns how to empower items with magic as an artificer, or the town fletcher who uses his bow to protect the nature he loves as a ranger. it's a fun thing to do.