Haley the celestial...?

[Kalirren]

[puts on tin-foil hat]

So I'm posting this in a spirit of speculation that Haley isn't quite human; specifically, that she's somehow related to a celestial being. Various things point to this:

1) Her opposite is Sabine, a demon.

2) "My Mommy went to heaven last year." And how would that information possibly be used against her unless her mother weren't dead?

3) "Elan, it turns out I may not be exactly what you would call..."

So what happens when they put Haley underneath the magical MRI and discern her type?

[NerfTW]

I agree!

Yeah, I'm totally expecting some sort of half celestial alignment to be revealed eventually.

[FabuVinny]

2) "My Mommy went to heaven last year." And how would that information possibly be used against her unless her mother weren't dead?Making the fact that she doesn't have a mother anymore known exposes her for emotional manipulation.

Her mother is dead. Author commentary confirms it.

3 is curious, though.

[LuisDantas]

I haven't read the statement from the Giant about Haley's mother, so I can't say how categoric it is.

3) is however quite interesting. I sortta like to think that Haley is half-Celestial (I don't think it has been disproven), but it is most likely a reference to her probable bisexuality.

[NerfTW]

Making the fact that she doesn't have a mother anymore known exposes her for emotional manipulation.

Her mother is dead. Author commentary confirms it.

3 is curious, though.

What author commentary? I'm not aware of any such commentary. The only indication of her mother is her statement "Mom went to heaven", which is considered proof of some form of other worldly status.

PS. Yes, I did recently state definitely that the author said the Opposite of what he actually said. So I am proof that any commentary should probably carry a book and page reference.

[mucat]

The only indication of her mother is her statement "Mom went to heaven", which is considered proof of some form of other worldly status.
Which is considered proof?

[Shale]

I'm assuming "dead" counts as otherworldly.

[derfenrirwolv]

re 3

Considering that the two lines above it were about her kissing a girl... more than once.. i think the next word might have been "strait"

[Cealocanth]

That could be a possibility, although 1 is probably because The Giant needed a character in the Linear guild that everyone in the party would hate their opposite, he does this specifically for belkar, because Yikyak is him "in kilbold form.

if we're going 4th eidtion here, Haley could have taken the Demigod Paragon path, making her opposite to a demon.

[Bavarian itP]

4) "Honestly, though,Sabine hasn't really yet shown all her true colors, and neither has Haley, so I'll keep quiet about another key way in which they are opposed." (DCF commentary)

[Morquard]

That most likely meant her being in love with Elan, contrary to Sabine who's Nale's lover.

Also the sentence "Elan, it turns out I may not be exactly what you would call..." can be finished in so many ways other than "human" that it would be pretty stupid to list them all. "good person" would be one, "great gourmet sushi chef" would also work and that one has about as much foundation as her being a half-celestrial.

[DSCrankshaw]

That most likely meant her being in love with Elan, contrary to Sabine who's Nale's lover.

Also the sentence "Elan, it turns out I may not be exactly what you would call..." can be finished in so many ways other than "human" that it would be pretty stupid to list them all. "good person" would be one, "great gourmet sushi chef" would also work and that one has about as much foundation as her being a half-celestrial.

I don't really see half-celestial as having a lot of evidence, but the lines building up to the "I may not be exactly what you would call..." suggests that it's bigger than good person or great gourmet sushi chef. I don't remember the exact words, but I think it was something along the lines of "No, not that. Not even V knows about that." So I suspect it was something big, though we still don't know what it is.

[sam79]

Also the sentence "Elan, it turns out I may not be exactly what you would call..." can be finished in so many ways other than "human" that it would be pretty stupid to list them all. "good person" would be one, "great gourmet sushi chef" would also work and that one has about as much foundation as her being a half-celestrial.

QFT. Any speculation that Haley isn't human rest on incredibly thin foundations. She is described as 'human' in the introduction of 'No Cure for Paladin Blues'. To me, the chances of her not being human are the same as (for example) Durkon not being a dwarf.

If we are to speculate that she is somehow not human, the best 'evidence' points to her being a dragon. At least the possibility of her being mistaken for one has been explicitly mentioned in the strip (no. 602).

[hamishspence]

QF
If we are to speculate that she is somehow not human, the best 'evidence' points to her being a dragon. At least the possibility of her being mistaken for one has been explicitly mentioned in the strip (no. 602).

There was also Haley's "I'm actually half dragon, you know", delivered with a wink:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0131.html

[sam79]

There was also Haley's "I'm actually half dragon, you know", delivered with a wink:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0131.html

Good spot!
Well by the evidential standards pertaining on these forums at times, I'd say we have proved beyond all reasonable doubt that Haley is draconic.

See in the recent strips how willingly she has let herself be captured, and her deliberate ineffectiveness in fighting the to the bounty hunters; even Elan scored more hits than she did. When she says she needs to look after "the two of you" in 716, clearly she is giving a subtle message to her fellow reptilians, expressing her desire to protect them from that dangerous dragon-killing Elven wizard. I suspect, nay, it is a copper-bottomed certainty, that she is in league with them, and with the Oracle and Tiamat, in planning some elaborate vengeance for the whole Familicide thing. Its all so clear now!

[Dr.Epic]

This has been speculated before. Personally, I doubt it's true.

[Draconi Redfir]

Good spot!
Well by the evidential standards pertaining on these forums at times, I'd say we have proved beyond all reasonable doubt that Haley is draconic.

See in the recent strips how willingly she has let herself be captured, and her deliberate ineffectiveness in fighting the to the bounty hunters; even Elan scored more hits than she did. When she says she needs to look after "the two of you" in 716, clearly she is giving a subtle message to her fellow reptilians, expressing her desire to protect them from that dangerous dragon-killing Elven wizard. I suspect, nay, it is a copper-bottomed certainty, that she is in league with them, and with the Oracle and Tiamat, in planning some elaborate vengeance for the whole Familicide thing. Its all so clear now!

/end sarcasum i asume?

[sam79]

/end sarcasum i asume?

Yeah, totally! I think the authorial "female human rogue, 24" of No Cure For Paladin Blues must be pretty much right, and the wild speculations to the contrary (mine included) are universally unconvincing.

[Draconi Redfir]

my head is now in danger of explodig due to sarcaum overload.

[Zxo]

I think she's human. Celestials (or half-dragons, or whatever) have some special abilities (spell-like powers, feats, resistances). There were enough situations where Haley was desperate enough to use all powers she had at her disposal that if she had any of those we would have seen her using them by now.

[The Dark Fiddler]

She is described as 'human' in the introduction of 'No Cure for Paladin Blues'.

While I'm firmly in the 'Haley is human' camp, I want to play a bit of devil's advocate here.

If it were a secret, or important (her non-humanness, of course), then do you really think he'd let it go just by her description?

[sam79]

While I'm firmly in the 'Haley is human' camp, I want to play a bit of devil's advocate here.

If it were a secret, or important (her non-humanness, of course), then do you really think he'd let it go just by her description?

No. He just wouldn't include the character's races in those descriptions at all. They are all obvious, after all, and it is only the ages there that gives us any information that can't be gleaned from the strips themselves.

[Reshbj]

Haley doesn't seem anything like an aasimar, if that's a theory. She doesn't have anything (that I can think of) that distinguishes her from a normal human rogue.

[Kish]

I don't really see half-celestial as having a lot of evidence, but the lines building up to the "I may not be exactly what you would call..." suggests that it's bigger than good person or great gourmet sushi chef.
I think, "I'm not exactly what you would call a good person," is massive to Haley.

[LuisDantas]

if we're going 4th eidtion here, Haley could have taken the Demigod Paragon path, making her opposite to a demon.

Didn't that strip get published a few months before the 4th Edition rulebooks? And so far we have seen very few hints that 4th Edition rules exist at all in the OOtS-verse.

[Paranoid Tune]

Didn't that strip get published a few months before the 4th Edition rulebooks? And so far we have seen very few hints that 4th Edition rules exist at all in the OOtS-verse.

I remember a big announcement with the release of 4th Edition where Rich said that he had no plans or any interest in upgrading the OotS and planned on leaving them firmly in the 3rd - 3.5 variation.

As far as Haley being anything other than human I am highly skeptical but I'd be lying if I didn't admit to enjoying the irony if she were to be another race, or a halfie unbeknown to herself. :smallcool:

[lord_khaine]

Really, the only thing thats more thin than the evidence pointing towards Haley being non-human is the evidence pointing towards her being a human.

With so little evidence we can only wait for more information.

[sam79]

Really, the only thing thats more thin than the evidence pointing towards Haley being non-human is the evidence pointing towards her being a human.

Really? An authorial statement that Haley is a "female human rogue" does not rate as firmer evidence than the entirely speculative assumptions the non-human theories are based on?

[Swordpriest]

3) "Elan, it turns out I may not be exactly what you would call..."



Any chance of a link or reference for those of us without 5 spare hours to search for this? Thanks!

[sam79]

Any chance of a link or reference for those of us without 5 spare hours to search for this? Thanks!


Cryptogram speech in panel 11, Strip 309.

[ShinyDelusion]

What author commentary? I'm not aware of any such commentary. The only indication of her mother is her statement "Mom went to heaven", which is considered proof of some form of other worldly status.

PS. Yes, I did recently state definitely that the author said the Opposite of what he actually said. So I am proof that any commentary should probably carry a book and page reference.

War and XPs in the commentary preceeding strip 302, paragraph 3 under "Coundown to Romance": "Haley suffers from a number of neuroses, particularly an abandonment complex that likely began with her mother's death and progressed up through a number of relationships in her youth."

While one could argue that the Giant himself has secret knowledge about Haley's family that tells him otherwise, this statement seems to say that Haley believes her mother her is dead, and has been very upset about it ever since which means she never found out otherwise after the fact, (which would mean her big secret wouldn't have anything to do with her mother being alive and therefore would probably have nothing to do with her mother being a Celestial).

Even in the face of all this, Haley's mom still could be something different (although I also doubt Rich would include false race descriptions in Book 2), but the Big Secret might not be related.

Personally, I think Haley isn't a celestial because of the arguements mentioned above and because if she were I think there would be some kind of hint about it during Roy's time in the Afterlife.


Any chance of a link or reference for those of us without 5 spare hours to search for this? Thanks!

Here you go. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0309.html) It's in cryptograms, of course, but it decodes easily and the book has confirmed it.

[DSCrankshaw]

I think, "I'm not exactly what you would call a good person," is massive to Haley.

Maybe, but it wouldn't matter to V, and thus it seems odd that it would be important that "not even V knows that."


I remember a big announcement with the release of 4th Edition where Rich said that he had no plans or any interest in upgrading the OotS and planned on leaving them firmly in the 3rd - 3.5 variation.

As far as Haley being anything other than human I am highly skeptical but I'd be lying if I didn't admit to enjoying the irony if she were to be another race, or a halfie unbeknown to herself. :smallcool:

He did say that he would not convert them to 4e, but that he would use concepts and ideas from 4e. Indeed, he's done a few already.

Ignorance as a power source.
The 4e Animal Messenger (upgraded by V)
Breasts on lizards (the dragonborn debate)

So it's not impossible that Rich would use 4e concepts, even including epic destinies, but he couldn't have planned to use them years before they existed, and I do doubt they will become major plot points.

[Kish]

Maybe, but it wouldn't matter to V, and thus it seems odd that it would be important that "not even V knows that."
What actually matters to anyone but Haley is largely irrelevant. What Haley would balk at telling anyone else--even her friend Vaarsuvius whom she trusts as much as she trusts anyone else--is the important thing.

[Swordpriest]

What actually matters to anyone but Haley is largely irrelevant. What Haley would balk at telling anyone else--even her friend Vaarsuvius whom she trusts as much as she trusts anyone else--is the important thing.

First of all, many thanks to those who provided directions to strip 309. :smallsmile:

Secondly, I agree with Kish. And in this case, I can't see why she would be afraid to tell Elan -- who is good-aligned -- that she's part celestial. If anything, that would be likely to increase his attraction to her, because of the story/plot implications (since he's genre savvy), and she knows him well enough to know that. And why wouldn't she tell V if she was part-celestial? :smallconfused: It's not a dreadful secret like her expression is indicating.

So, it seems most likely to be some non-good act, or some kind of sexual misadventure. She also thinks "that one," which suggests a single, definite event rather than something continuous like a bloodline.

[DSCrankshaw]

First of all, many thanks to those who provided directions to strip 309. :smallsmile:

Secondly, I agree with Kish. And in this case, I can't see why she would be afraid to tell Elan -- who is good-aligned -- that she's part celestial. If anything, that would be likely to increase his attraction to her, because of the story/plot implications (since he's genre savvy), and she knows him well enough to know that. And why wouldn't she tell V if she was part-celestial? :smallconfused: It's not a dreadful secret like her expression is indicating.

So, it seems most likely to be some non-good act, or some kind of sexual misadventure. She also thinks "that one," which suggests a single, definite event rather than something continuous like a bloodline.

And, as I've already said, I don't think she's half-celestial. I do think the secret here is a big one, not something we already knew at that point. I don't think it's her alignment: unless she's actually chaotic evil, I don't think it'd be such a big deal whether she was neutral-ish chaotic good or good-ish chaotic neutral. Maybe she doesn't consider herself a good person, but while that might be important for her relationship with Elan, who's clearly chaotic good, I'm not convinced it would matter for her relationship with V, who's probably Lawful Neutral. Besides, the build-up wasn't for Elan's or V's sake, it was for the reader's sake, and the fact that she doesn't consider herself a good person was something we already knew.

The bottom line is that I think there's still an important revelation to come. I don't think that revelation is that she's half-celestial.

[Morquard]

First of all, many thanks to those who provided directions to strip 309. :smallsmile:

Secondly, I agree with Kish. And in this case, I can't see why she would be afraid to tell Elan -- who is good-aligned -- that she's part celestial. If anything, that would be likely to increase his attraction to her, because of the story/plot implications (since he's genre savvy), and she knows him well enough to know that. And why wouldn't she tell V if she was part-celestial? :smallconfused: It's not a dreadful secret like her expression is indicating.

So, it seems most likely to be some non-good act, or some kind of sexual misadventure. She also thinks "that one," which suggests a single, definite event rather than something continuous like a bloodline.

Just to play devils advocate there, she might not tell anyone that she's half celestial because it could be exploited. Remember what her father told her? "Never tell anyone anything true about yourself". I don't know what, maybe that evil aligned weapons overcome her DR or something like that :)

That said, I don't think she's half celestial

Maybe it was "I'm not exactly what you'd consider a woman" Thats it, haley's wearing a gender change belt!

[LuisDantas]

I don't expect Haley to be Half-Celestial either, but I am reminded of Celia's claim that she couldn't be raised from death. I can't help but wonder if Half-Celestials can. I have no idea whatsoever.

Although it would sure be nice to review Celia and Haley's interactions under such a new light...


Maybe it was "I'm not exactly what you'd consider a woman" Thats it, haley's wearing a gender change belt!

Transexuality in a webcomics PC? Now that would be welcome :smallsmile:

[derfenrirwolv]

econdly, I agree with Kish. And in this case, I can't see why she would be afraid to tell Elan -- who is good-aligned -- that she's part celestial. If anything, that would be likely to increase his attraction to her, because of the story/plot implications (since he's genre savvy),

not to add fuel to the fire of what i think is a baseless theory but...

Haley revealing that she was part celestial would increase everyone's ESPECIALLY Elan's, expectations of her. She has a very low amount of self esteme with regard to that, and wouldn't want to raise the bar any higher when (in her mind) she's so far from the bar she already has.

[Giggling Ghast]

I assume Haley is a doppelganger.

[Edea]

NO, she's an elan >:3

[Ripped Shirt Kirk]

No, she's REALLY girard wearing a gender change belt, who's REALLY a celestial. It's so obvious.

[Kalirren]

War and XPs in the commentary preceeding strip 302, paragraph 3 under "Coundown to Romance": "Haley suffers from a number of neuroses, particularly an abandonment complex that likely began with her mother's death and progressed up through a number of relationships in her youth."

While one could argue that the Giant himself has secret knowledge about Haley's family that tells him otherwise, this statement seems to say that Haley believes her mother her is dead, and has been very upset about it ever since which means she never found out otherwise after the fact, (which would mean her big secret wouldn't have anything to do with her mother being alive and therefore would probably have nothing to do with her mother being a Celestial).

Really! I don't have War and XPs so I didn't know about this. In what voice is that comment written, OOC or IC?

The only line I can seem to find regarding what Haley thinks about her own Mother is that Haley thinks Haley's mother -left-. #311: "Just like Mom left?"

[SoC175]

He did say that he would not convert them to 4e, but that he would use concepts and ideas from 4e. Indeed, he's done a few already.

Ignorance as a power source.
The 4e Animal Messenger (upgraded by V)
Breasts on lizards (the dragonborn debate) Animal Messegner (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/animalMessenger.htm) is a 3.x spell

[Morithias]

for all the people who point out that she is listed as a "female human rogue" let us not forget that things like half-celestial and celestial are templates, so she is still technically human.

Also remember that the Aasimar blood is very very thin of angel blood. She would only be maybe 1/16 angel if she was aasimar, so "technically" she is more human than angel.

I would not push the theory as having merit aside....but there is one thing. When she leveled up in the early strips in the first dungeon, what level did she reach? If it is confirmed to be an even level, then she much have an LA since rogues do not get sneak attack on even levels.

That is all.

[Kalirren]

Well, Haley gets sneak attack at the same time as V gets a new spell level, which happens on odd levels, so if she has an LA, it must be even.

Guess that rules out Aasimar...

[Haven]

Transexuality in a webcomics PC? Now that would be welcome :smallsmile:

If either of them is transexual, it's gotta be Elan. He was curious about the belt of gender changing, after all. :p

[silvadel]

Maybe she is one QUARTER dragon... That would still count as human but could lead to some surprises with regard to her parents.

[slayerx]

Really! I don't have War and XPs so I didn't know about this. In what voice is that comment written, OOC or IC?

The only line I can seem to find regarding what Haley thinks about her own Mother is that Haley thinks Haley's mother -left-. #311: "Just like Mom left?"

Saying "she left" can sometimes be a way of saying someone died; usually as a way of coping with their death and making it sound more pleasant... however "left" tends to imply she died by choice which could mean that she committed suicide

Another possibility is that Haley had a step-mother which she came to love like her true mother... her birth mother died when she was younger (went to heaven), while her father re-married giving her a new mother which later went on to leave (abandoning her like the others she loved)

[ShinyDelusion]

Really! I don't have War and XPs so I didn't know about this. In what voice is that comment written, OOC or IC?

The only line I can seem to find regarding what Haley thinks about her own Mother is that Haley thinks Haley's mother -left-. #311: "Just like Mom left?"

Uh... neither, or OOC, I suppose? To clarify, in the books Rich will throw in a page of commentary at intervals where he'll discuss things like what was most difficult or most fun about writing a story arc, why a character did something that surprised the audience, why he chose to throw in a certain plot twist, etc. etc. In the particular bit of commentary I quoted, he was discussing why Haley wasn't yet ready for a mature romantic relationship with Elan back when she was speaking in cryptograms. Apparently, Haley's mother's death (or fake death if that happens to be the case) was the first of several abandonements that drove her to develop a complex. Since Haley had such an emotional reaction to the event and it's probably safe to say that Rich may mislead but won't tell outright lies in his commentary, I think Haley must believe her mother is really dead.

Of course, none of this rules out the part-draconic (or other non-celestial) possibilities for the Big Secret, and the Big Secret could be something totally unpredictable for all we know, but I think the half-celestial theory's looking a little too far-fetched to happen at the moment, and even if it is true, I'm pretty much certain it wasn't the Big Secret.

[DSCrankshaw]

Animal Messegner (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/animalMessenger.htm) is a 3.x spell

Yes, but the version used by V is a lot closer to the 4e version than the 3.5e version.

[Mewtarthio]

Considering that the two lines above it were about her kissing a girl... more than once.. i think the next word might have been "strait"

But she'd already attempted to reveal that secret. Thus, her final secret can't involve that or anything else she'd already tried confessing (including her father's imprisonment, her non-guild status, and her cheating at solitaire).

[slayerx]

He did say that he would not convert them to 4e, but that he would use concepts and ideas from 4e. Indeed, he's done a few already.

Ignorance as a power source.
The 4e Animal Messenger (upgraded by V)
Breasts on lizards (the dragonborn debate)

So it's not impossible that Rich would use 4e concepts, even including epic destinies, but he couldn't have planned to use them years before they existed, and I do doubt they will become major plot points.

Or it could just be a coincidence...
Really you're gonna have to be more a lot specific and quote more examples to make that case

I mean really, Breast on Lizards for instance is based off of one of the HUGE cliche's it fictional writing; namely that females always have breasts even if it doesn't make sense. it has NOTHING to do with 4e

[DSCrankshaw]

Or it could just be a coincidence...
Really you're gonna have to be more a lot specific and quote more examples to make that case

I mean really, Breast on Lizards for instance is based off of one of the HUGE cliche's it fictional writing; namely that females always have breasts even if it doesn't make sense. it has NOTHING to do with 4e

I think properly addressing this would de-rail the thread. So I'll just point out that Rich said he'd be making jokes from 4e. And Durkon's, "He has 'Ignorance' as a class power source (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0558.html)" is a pretty clear reference to 4e, considering power sources are one of the central conceits of the 4th edition system. While they existed in an implied way in older editions, 4e introduced the term power source as something tied to classes. And, of course, this was right around when 4th edition came out, which got a reference in the comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0562.html).

[Draconi Redfir]

mabey haley multiclassed. and either took levels in/started out as a scorcerer, granting her a bloodline trait of some sort. she hasent takne levels in sorcerer since, so the trait hasent shown itself in any noticeable way.

[Kish]

mabey haley multiclassed. and either took levels in/started out as a scorcerer, granting her a bloodline trait of some sort.
Bloodline trait? Is this a 4ed thing?

[skyclad]

Guys, stop debating rules and editions :smallsmile:think about the story. do you really think it would be something lame like, "good person" or "bisexual"? Its a BIG SECRET she has kept from everybody her whole life, even her SO and V.
It must be something dramatic and important, it doesnt make sense otherwise. There is definitely more to Haley than what we've seen so far.

EDIT: And if the giant wanted her to be of angelic descent in some way, you can be damn sure he would throw LA and written sources out the window. Not that Im convinced by that theory either, we will just have to wait and see. Its definitely intriguing though.

Also, look at how similar the angelic thing in xykons old tower is to haley! Hehe, not exactly evidence, just another interesting part of all this.

[Kish]

do you really think it would be something lame like, "good person"
Yes. That's exactly what I think it is. It's central to Haley's character that she considers herself someone who fakes being a good person reasonably well despite actually being scum. For Haley to consider it a precious secret, "central to Haley's character" trumps "important for the overarching plot" or, "will make the audience gasp."

[HandofShadows]

Haley doesn't seem anything like an aasimar, if that's a theory. She doesn't have anything (that I can think of) that distinguishes her from a normal human rogue.

Maybe because there is nothing. If Haley were part dragon or celestial it was probably back four or five generations. So the non human portion of her genetics is rather low and does not give any special abilities. The only remaining trait is a love of gold. :)

[Draconi Redfir]

Bloodline trait? Is this a 4ed thing?

no, dont all sorcerers get a bloodline (i.e. Draconic, Ceistial, undead, Demon, ETC) that was introduced into their family a few generaitions ago wich gives them their magical abilities? maby its just in pathfinder then.

[Volthawk]

no, dont all sorcerers get a bloodline (i.e. Draconic, Ceistial, undead, Demon, ETC) that was introduced into their family a few generaitions ago wich gives them their magical abilities? maby its just in pathfinder then.

In standard 3.5, there are fiendish, fey and draconic heritage feats.

[Kish]

no, dont all sorcerers get a bloodline (i.e. Draconic, Ceistial, undead, Demon, ETC) that was introduced into their family a few generaitions ago wich gives them their magical abilities? maby its just in pathfinder then.
Ah, a Pathfinder thing.


In standard 3.5, there are fiendish, fey and draconic heritage feats.

But not by default, nor even in a core book. "Maybe Haley multiclassed to sorcerer and took a feat from the Planar Handbook despite there being no indication that she did either or that the Planar Handbook is in play," is rather more extreme than the original (Pathfinder-based, apparently) suggestion.

--For that matter, "Haley is not a single-classed rogue," matches the comic no better than, "Haley is not fully human."

[Draconi Redfir]

hey sorry man, i've only ever read the pathfinder book, i asumed 3.5 had the same thing goin for it.

[Fargazer]

2) "My Mommy went to heaven last year." And how would that information possibly be used against her unless her mother weren't dead?

Actually, in comic 311 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0311.html) its implied that her mother left voluntarily, though it wouldn't be out of character if Haley did blame herself.

[Joerg]

Perhaps her mother left first, and died later.

[doodthedud]

Actually, in comic 311 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0311.html) its implied that her mother left voluntarily, though it wouldn't be out of character if Haley did blame herself.

Or it's just her self-blame. As if here mother had no will to live or something.

[Fargazer]

Or it's just her self-blame. As if here mother had no will to live or something.

Maybe, but she was pretty young.

[Gitman00]

My vote would be for an extraplanar bloodline, such as those outlined in Unearthed Arcana. I hadn't considered that "My mommy is in heaven" line as having meaning beyond "she's dead." That's a good spot, and could definitely be a subtle hint from the Giant.

[Endon the White]

I think this would be a good twist to the to her character.

[denthor]

Here is a plot twist her mother rules the the empire of blood.

No evidence just a random thought