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Kaskos
2010-04-24, 07:51 AM
Hi there.

Ok, so i am very new to these forums but not terribly new to DnD v3.5.
I am however new to Druid and have finally persuaded my DM to let me take one in the game we got coming up in the near future.
I have read alot of the posts you guys have made about druids and progression etc, thats kinda where my question lays - if anyone would be so kind :smallsmile:
I am making him at level 6 - he is Human and its set in the Forgotten Realms.
I have 14-15-15-12-17-14 as stats and set them up in order of Wis (18) due to +! at 4th. then Con, Dex, Str, Cha and Int at the end.
I have set out skills in the standard way for a druid and then i become a little stuck...
Human Feat:
1st Level:
3rd Level: Companion Spellbond
6th Level: Natural Spell

So, two feats i cant decide, i am not allowed a Fleshraker (still fighting him with that) so i thought maybe a Leopard?
And i have 13,000g to spend and cant see anything that jumps out as a wow item. Maybe a monks belt? And wait for another 4k before i can use it in Wildshape - and not sure if i read i lose my normal armour bonus with that?

I know its kinda cheeky for my first post to be asking for advice, but i hope a couple of you can. I appreciate any input :smallsmile:

Eldan
2010-04-24, 07:55 AM
Bears really aren't bad companions, and not as overpowered as some others.

What feats you want depends on what you mostly want to do with your druid. If you want to wade into close combat in animal form, get power attack and other combat feats. If you want to cast spells more, get some metamagic.

MountainKing
2010-04-24, 07:56 AM
How are you getting a feat at 4th level? Is it just a typo for 6th level? :smallconfused:

Also, if you don't want your DM to hate you forever, don't use Wild Shape. Use the Shapeshift variant from PHB II. It's also significantly easier to use, which might be better given some of the wording on Wild Shape.

Kaskos
2010-04-24, 07:59 AM
Sorry, yes it was a typo for sixth.

Character wise, i am free to go wherever i like in the druid itself.
I kinda like the whole wildshape side of things and as its my first druid it strikes me as the most fun and easiest way to learn a bit more about them.

Also doesnt the shapeshift ability hinder the use of Natural Spell?

Gnaeus
2010-04-24, 08:00 AM
Hi there.

Ok, so i am very new to these forums but not terribly new to DnD v3.5.
I am however new to Druid and have finally persuaded my DM to let me take one in the game we got coming up in the near future.
I have read alot of the posts you guys have made about druids and progression etc, thats kinda where my question lays - if anyone would be so kind :smallsmile:
I am making him at level 6 - he is Human and its set in the Forgotten Realms.
I have 14-15-15-12-17-14 as stats and set them up in order of Wis (18) due to +! at 4th. then Con, Dex, Str, Cha and Int at the end.
I have set out skills in the standard way for a druid and then i become a little stuck...
Human Feat:
1st Level:
3rd Level: Companion Spellbond
4th Level: Natural Spell

So, two feats i cant decide, i am not allowed a Fleshraker (still fighting him with that) so i thought maybe a Leopard?
And i have 13,000g to spend and cant see anything that jumps out as a wow item. Maybe a monks belt? And wait for another 4k before i can use it in Wildshape - and not sure if i read i lose my normal armour bonus with that?

I know its kinda cheeky for my first post to be asking for advice, but i hope a couple of you can. I appreciate any input :smallsmile:

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1354.0
That is the druid's handbook. Very worthwhile.

Leopard is fine. Bear might be a bit better IIRC.

A more typical stat spread for druids puts Str and Dex last after Int and Cha. Especially if starting at level 6. You should be in Wildshape 12 hours per day, which will be 95% of encounters in most games. In WS, your Str and Dex are replaced. Better off getting a high int for better skill points.

Monks belt is usable in many forms. You just take it off. Turn into a dire bat or a bear or whatever, then a party member puts it back onto you. You only need the wildling clasp if you want to walk around human then WS in a hurry.

Edit: Shapeshift is a big nerf for druids. If you have played a druid, and feel like you need a nerf, fine. It shouldn't be suggested as an equivalent option. It is half as useful as Wildshape and takes away your animal companion as a bonus.

MountainKing
2010-04-24, 08:04 AM
Sorry, yes it was a typo for sixth.

Character wise, i am free to go wherever i like in the druid itself.
I kinda like the whole wildshape side of things and as its my first druid it strikes me as the most fun and easiest way to learn a bit more about them.

Also doesnt the shapeshift ability hinder the use of Natural Spell?

*shrug* Wild Shape and Natural Spell are also ludicrously powerful, and it's definitely not hard to break them in half over your knee. :smalltongue: Shapeshift does not work with Natural Spell (it states it in the description), but it's certainly far more balanced than Wild Shape, and makes it significantly less easy to do terrible, broken things.

Gnaeus
2010-04-24, 08:09 AM
but it's certainly far more balanced than Wild Shape, and makes it significantly less easy to do terrible, broken things.

It is far less versatile than Wild Shape. If you want to nerf yourself, the best idea is to just not take natural spell.

If you don't want to do that, try a nerf to Wild Shape like Pathfinder uses, where you can still take any form you want but you only get a straight modifier to your physical abilities instead of replacing them.

Shapeshift is entirely sub par. It shouldn't be used unless wildshape is just too complex for you, or other players make you.

Kaskos
2010-04-24, 08:12 AM
Were not well known for our druids in my group but after reading and reading i was more intent on taking one than any other class.
I will be taking a druid after our current campaign ends in which i had a Half-Orc Frenzied Berserker.
So a little change is always good.

There arent too many things they will MAKE me do except my DM is determined to not allow me a Fleshraker

Leon
2010-04-24, 08:15 AM
You should be in Wildshape 12 hours per day, which will be 95% of encounters in most games.
Edit: Shapeshift is a big nerf for druids. If you have played a druid, and feel like you need a nerf, fine. It shouldn't be suggested as an equivalent option. It is half as useful as Wildshape and takes away your animal companion as a bonus.

Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

Shapeshift is a decent variant that removes the complexity that can occur with wild shape. Played druids before Shapeshift and never really liked wildsahpe - however since its advent Ive had fun with Shapeshift.
Mind you i love druids more for the natural spellcaster aspect than anything else so i can do away with everything but the spell list and be happy

No need for Natural Spell with shapeshift as you can be in and out of Forms quick and not be limited by a duration.

Gnaeus
2010-04-24, 08:17 AM
What is in your party?

My general feat advice would be
1 Companion Spellbond
3 Craft Wondrous Item
6 Natural spell.

Craft wondrous item is good for druids for 3 reasons.
1. If your DM is stingy about allowing items you find to fit on your animal companion, you can have a leatherworker make a belt that will fit a whatever, then enchant it.

2. If you have a hard time finding wildling clasps, you can make your own.

3. If you find that you are totally outperforming your party members, you can rely on found items, and spend all your downtime crafting items for your teammates. This helps to even out the power curve a lot. My philosophy is when your character is stronger than your teammates, don't play down to their level, bring them up to yours.

RagnaroksChosen
2010-04-24, 08:21 AM
doesn't shapshift varient take away animal companion?

Gnaeus
2010-04-24, 08:21 AM
Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

Shapeshift is a decent variant that removes the complexity that can occur with wild shape. Played druids before Shapeshift and never really liked wildsahpe - however since its advent iIe had fun with Shapeshift.

No need for Natural Spell with shapeshift as you can be in and out of Forms quick and not be limited by a duration.

He hasn't complained about the complexity of wildshape. Lots of people do fine with it.

Shapeshift is a huge nerf. It takes away your AC. It greatly limits your character options. You can't take forms appropriate to your environment (I don't believe there is an aquatic form for example). You can't fly and spellcast.

Druids are too strong if well played in many (but certainly not all!) parties, but shapeshift is only one way to nerf them back into line, and it isn't one of the better ways.

Leon
2010-04-24, 08:22 AM
Shapeshift is entirely sub par. It shouldn't be used unless wildshape is just too complex for you, or other players make you.

That is your opinion and your entitled to it but it doesn't make the variant bad or something not to be played - that comes for personal choice.



He hasn't complained about the complexity of wildshape. Lots of people do fine with it.

Shapeshift is a huge nerf. It takes away your AC. It greatly limits your character options. You can't take forms appropriate to your environment (I don't believe there is an aquatic form for example). You can't fly and spellcast.

Druids are too strong if well played in many (but certainly not all!) parties, but shapeshift is only one way to nerf them back into line, and it isn't one of the better ways.

Its not a Nerf - its a Option, yes you give up a AC, so what - its a class feature that can use or choose not to use, you dont have to have one even if your not replacing it with another option you can do without. its not a required to play thing. the only thing limiting a Character option is what your DM sets down and what you choose to take, and with what your create.

I play a Druid that doesn't have have a AC or wildshape and Its still a damm strong PC because i know what i can do with the class and i don't need those 2 class features to achieve my goal, conversely i have seen people play classes that are generally considered quite strong and utterly fail as they don't have a solid idea of what they are going to do or what they are playing


In regard to the Original Poster - Focus: Conjuration and Augment Summons for 1st two feat choices if you want to have the summoning aspect reinforced (Conjuration Focus is a lacking feat but is needed for the Augment one which is quite good)

PhoenixRivers
2010-04-24, 08:22 AM
One way to mitigate druid to Tier 2 and have a bit of fun with it is:

Swift Hunter ACF (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#druid)

You give up Wild Shape and armor for monk movement, monk AC, ranger favored enemies, and track.

You still get the full casting and animal companion, and you focus as a Wis based caster with moderate melee ability.

From there, Get Fist of the Forest 1, and you get Dex to AC, Wis to AC, and Con to AC.

It really comes into its own at high levels, when you get Shapeshift, but it's not shabby before then. You're a high speed fullcaster with solid AC, solid touch AC, and you use favored enemies for skill bonuses, possibly a bit of melee ability occasionally.

With Shapeshift, however, you garner benefits from monk movement that monk can only dream of (at level 18 for example? Turn into a creature with a low burrow speed, that can burrow into rock, and change that Burrow 10 to burrow 70. High speed flyers, such as air elementals? Fly speed of 160. The list goes on, and you get a lot of versatility). You gain benefits from Wis and Con to AC when you assume beefy high Con forms, and overall, you're just a solid tanky beast.

RagnaroksChosen
2010-04-24, 08:23 AM
That is your opinion and your entitled to it but it doesn't make the variant bad or something not to be played - that comes for personal choice.

actualy statisticaly it is bad it takes away two of your more powerful class features. Wildshape and AC.
There for it is sub par...

mikej
2010-04-24, 08:24 AM
Forgotten Realms, hmm, isn't Greenbound Summoning in that setting?

I'd stick with regular Wildshape. I'll only use the Shapeshift version if the standard one wasn't allowed.

Kaskos
2010-04-24, 08:26 AM
[url=http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#druid]Swift Hunter ACF[/spoiler]

Cant get that brought up to look at it :-(

PhoenixRivers
2010-04-24, 08:26 AM
fixed it. try now.

Gnaeus
2010-04-24, 08:27 AM
That is your opinion and your entitled to it but it doesn't make the variant bad or something not to be played - that comes for personal choice.

Monk isn't bad or something not to be played. It is fine. It is just a weaker option.

Shapeshift is weaker than straight druid. It should be presented as a nerf, which it is. It should also be presented as one of several possible nerfs, including:
PF druid
Crafting yourself down a level
a monk or swordsage dip
Taking almost any Druid PRC except planar shepherd
simply not taking natural spell.

When you act like shapeshift is an equivalent option to WS in power and versatility, you are being dishonest.

My opinion is that shapeshift is one of the least flavorful and most crippling of the druid nerfs, and as such to be avoided. But that it is a nerf is a fact.

More than that, OP didn't ask for a nerf. You don't know what his party is. He could be next to a Batman wizard and a DMM cleric. The DM banned fleshraker, so he is at least looking at balance issues. It is much easier to make a strong character and then nerf yourself if you are too strong, than to fight back up the curve if you are too weak.

Kaskos
2010-04-24, 08:34 AM
fixed it. try now.

I had a look at it -
(cant say i iwll go that way with my first druid)

But - isnt it just a Monk/Ranger? No druid at all?

PhoenixRivers
2010-04-24, 08:37 AM
I had a look at it -
(cant say i iwll go that way with my first druid)

But - isnt it just a Monk/Ranger? No druid at all?

Druid spellcasting, Druid Animal Companion.

Just no druid wildshape. As a casty druid goes, it's pretty solid, without being overpowered. It's phenomenal for summoner druids.

Leon
2010-04-24, 08:37 AM
actualy statisticaly it is bad it takes away two of your more powerful class features. Wildshape and AC.
There for it is sub par...

Leaving me with the other Powerful class feature - Spells

Ok,
You call it a Nerf
I'll call it a Option

Who ever reads both should be able to make a choice on what they think it is and if its something that they would like to choose for the Idea they have

Kaskos
2010-04-24, 08:39 AM
Druid spellcasting, Druid Animal Companion.

Just no druid wildshape. As a casty druid goes, it's pretty solid, without being overpowered. It's phenomenal for summoner druids.

So what is it? Is it a variant my DM would have to agree to or is it Monk/Ranger/Druid 4 for a 6th level or some such?

Gnaeus
2010-04-24, 08:42 AM
Leaving me with the other Powerful class feature - Spells

Nerf yourself if you want. Advise other people to nerf themselves if you want. But if you try to disguise your nerf as an equivalent class option, that is lying, and you are dishonest.

It gives up one of the most powerful class features, and cripples another, for nothing in return. That is a nerf.

Now there is nothing wrong with nerfing druids. I often nerf my own druids when they are overpowered for their party. But I KNOW that that is what I am doing when I do it. I don't tell people to take Arcane Hierophant (which I love, and find flavorful) without telling them that it is weaker than a straight druid.

Leon
2010-04-24, 08:44 AM
So what is it? Is it a variant my DM would have to agree to or is it Monk/Ranger/Druid 4 for a 6th level or some such?

Its a Variant, available from the Hypertext SRD. Takes some aspects of rangers and monks and repaces some aspects from the druid with them


*Apparently originally from Unearthed Arcana as per post below me - only know it from the Online resouce

PhoenixRivers
2010-04-24, 08:46 AM
So what is it? Is it a variant my DM would have to agree to or is it Monk/Ranger/Druid 4 for a 6th level or some such?

It's a variant from Unearthed Arcana.

You are a druid. You have all the druid features, except you give up all forms of Wildshape. You give up all armor and shield proficiencies. You get the Monk movement, the monk AC boost, and the ranger features that it lists. It essentially alters the druid class. At level 6, you are:

Druid 6 (Swift Hunter)

Your DM will have to agree, but I've never seen a DM yet say no to, "Hey DM, I'm playing a druid, and I saw an Alternate Class Feature that costs me wildshape. Can I have it?"

Not once. It's a bit of a nerf in versatility, but it's fun for a non shifty defensive caster who uses summons for the dirty work.

Kaskos
2010-04-24, 08:57 AM
It's a variant from Unearthed Arcana.

You are a druid. You have all the druid features, except you give up all forms of Wildshape. You give up all armor and shield proficiencies. You get the Monk movement, the monk AC boost, and the ranger features that it lists. It essentially alters the druid class. At level 6, you are:

Druid 6 (Swift Hunter)

Your DM will have to agree, but I've never seen a DM yet say no to, "Hey DM, I'm playing a druid, and I saw an Alternate Class Feature that costs me wildshape. Can I have it?"

Not once. It's a bit of a nerf in versatility, but it's fun for a non shifty defensive caster who uses summons for the dirty work.

It might be a bit of a mindplay as its my first druid but it sounds like a fun alternative once i get to grips with Druid.

I think for my first time though, i should go with a Wildshaping (just cos i can) with a leopard or a bear.
Guessing feats are still a toss up for me and my starting gold wasnt touched except for mention of Monks Belt

Leon
2010-04-24, 09:00 AM
Nerf yourself if you want. Advise other people to nerf themselves if you want. But if you try to disguise your nerf as an equivalent class option, that is lying, and you are dishonest.

It gives up one of the most powerful class features, and cripples another, for nothing in return. That is a nerf.

Now there is nothing wrong with nerfing druids. I often nerf my own druids when they are overpowered for their party. But I KNOW that that is what I am doing when I do it.

What authority do you have to say that the option is not a equivalent - you don't like it as you it doesn't meet your standard of power/ability/etc. We are but humble players of a game that can be (and is often) highly variable in how its played but unless its a Official ruling from a creator its just your opinion.

I value opinion but i also like to make sure that those asking for help get a look at ALL the options.

Wont touch a thread these days that starts with asking for help on optimizing a PC (any PC let along a druid) but anyone asking for advice is entitled to have any they want and be able to explore all options (whether you as another helper agree with it or not)

PhoenixRivers
2010-04-24, 09:01 AM
Wild Armor (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicArmor.htm#wild) is +16,000gp to armor cost (for +1 Wild armor). Put it on Dragonscale Full plate, spend about 18-19k, get a +9 AC in wildshape. You can do it with lesser armors too.

See, Wild armor still melds in, you just keep the AC bonus and Enhancement bonus. Everything else goes away. So it's like armor for the wildshape, but better.


What authority do you have to say that the option is not a equivalent - you don't like it as you it doesn't meet your standard of power/ability/etc. We are but humble players of a game that can be (and is often) highly variable in how its played but unless its a Official ruling from a creator its just your opinion.

I value opinion but i also like to make sure that those asking for help get a look at ALL the options.

Wont touch a thread these days that starts with asking for help on optimizing a PC (any PC let along a druid) but anyone asking for advice is entitled to have any they want and be able to explore all options (whether you as another helper agree with it or not)
It is a weaker option, Leon. That's not saying it's bad or good, or whatever. But it's not equivalent. You give up a dollar, and get seventy five cents. It's not unplayable, it's not weak. But it's weaker than a standard druid. That means that it isn't equivalent. Fun is up to opinion, but equivalence can be measured. Shapeshift kills two powerful features, and negatively impacts the third (no natural spell in shift form, which mitigates casting ability). In exchange, the bonuses you get are less than those that you'd get from Wildshape, and often come with penalties of their own.

Lord of Syntax
2010-04-24, 09:01 AM
You could also start the game as a dead Monk with Toughness 3 times, but that is just a "option".

Yora
2010-04-24, 09:10 AM
So, two feats i cant decide, i am not allowed a Fleshraker (still fighting him with that)

Why? You're a druid with wild shape, you allready won the game. :smallbiggrin:

Leon
2010-04-24, 09:15 AM
If your looking atSwift Hunter you may also want to look at Druidic Avenger (Also from Unearthed Arcana and in the SRD online)

Gives up the Companion and Spontaneous Casting of Summon spells for Fast Movement and Rage (Tireless rage at higer level) Also opens up the option of taking rage related feats.

Gnaeus
2010-04-24, 09:16 AM
What authority do you have to say that the option is not a equivalent - you don't like it as you it doesn't meet your standard of power/ability/etc. We are but humble players of a game that can be (and is often) highly variable in how its played but unless its a Official ruling from a creator its just your opinion.

This is a fact. PHB Druid is more powerful than Shapeshift druid. If you want to run a same game test at a range of levels between my natural spell using druid & his animal companion vs. your shapeshift guy, we can.

These are opinions.
Wildshape is too complicated (Yours)
Wildshape is too powerful/druid should be weaker (many people, including sometimes me)
Shapeshift is a flavorful, fun variant (Yours)
Shapeshift is a flavorless nerf inferior to other nerfs out there (Mine).

Now, I don't mind people advocating their nerf options. I like several options that nerf druids. But when you suggest to a player without experience to the class an option which is clearly much weaker, without saying that, you are dishonest. Shame on you.

WarKitty
2010-04-24, 09:17 AM
Just play a lazy character that won't do anything if he thinks his fellow party members can do it just fine. :smalltongue: Problem solved. Either that or you have a really annoyed party.

Leon
2010-04-24, 09:32 AM
Now, I don't mind people advocating their nerf options. I like several options that nerf druids. But when you suggest to a player without experience to the class an option which is clearly much weaker, without saying that, you are dishonest. Shame on you.

Meh
Fine to you im Dishonest, i'll roll with that. Got called something far worse last week at work, that one bothered me. Being called dishonest on the internet no problem.

I suggest a Option which to me is not weaker but a different way of playing a class.
Hence player with without experience may like to have the option of a Simpler introduction to a class. I also never said that the Shapeshift variant was awesome, just that it wasn't the sub par entity that you made to be.

Same way i'd suggest that a player who has no experience with a arcane caster maybe try a Sorcerer or one of the School focused variant classes before diving head long into a wizard.

Gnaeus
2010-04-24, 09:45 AM
Meh
Fine to you im Dishonest, i'll roll with that. Got called something far worse last week at work, that one bothered me. Being called dishonest on the internet no problem.

Being dishonest to me isn't a problem. It is that you are lying to players who don't know better that you should be ashamed of.


I suggest a Option which to me is not weaker but a different way of playing a class.
Hence player with without experience may like to have the option of a Simpler introduction to a class. I also never said that the Shapeshift variant was awesome, just that it wasn't the sub par entity that you made to be.

I don't understand you. Are you claming that Shapeshift druid isn't weaker than Druid? Some of your earlier posts suggest that you realize that it is but you like it anyway. If you think it isn't weaker, we can prove it fairly easily. If you think that it is weaker, but you like it anyway, thats fine. But when advocating it to people who don't know their druid fu, you should be honest and note that it is weaker, but you like it better.


Same way i'd suggest that a player who has no experience with a arcane caster maybe try a Sorcerer or one of the School focused variant classes before diving head long into a wizard.

Well, you would be wrong there too. A good Sorc is harder to make than a good wizard, and much harder to fix if you make mistakes in character creation. The Wizard just buys a couple of scrolls and fixes his bad spell choices the next time he goes to town.

Tinydwarfman
2010-04-24, 09:54 AM
Well, you would be wrong there too. A good Sorc is harder to make than a good wizard, and much harder to fix if you make mistakes in character creation. The Wizard just buys a couple of scrolls and fixes his bad spell choices the next time he goes to town.

Well, IDK, I would advocate a sorcerer for a new player who didn't think he could keep track of all of his spells, and all it takes is a little advice from more experienced players for good spell choices. A wizard is probably better for a player who is really interested and wants to learn more about the game and mechanics.

Gnaeus
2010-04-24, 09:59 AM
Well, IDK, I would advocate a sorcerer for a new player who didn't think he could keep track of all of his spells, and all it takes is a little advice from more experienced players for good spell choices. A wizard is probably better for a player who is really interested and wants to learn more about the game and mechanics.

O.K. Granted. If someone else picks his spells for him, the sorcerer is less complicated. The wizard is still easier to build and easier to fix if you built poorly.

Leon
2010-04-24, 10:03 AM
Being dishonest to me isn't a problem. It is that you are lying to players who don't know better that you should be ashamed of.
Well if they take it as me lying to them so be it, Im not ashamed of it.




I don't understand you. Are you claming that Shapeshift druid isn't weaker than Druid? Some of your earlier posts suggest that you realize that it is but you like it anyway. If you think it isn't weaker, we can prove it fairly easily. If you think that it is weaker, but you like it anyway, thats fine. But when advocating it to people who don't know their druid fu, you should be honest and note that it is weaker, but you like it better.

I realize its not the Earth Shattering combination that can be a Core Druid with a select feat and possibly not on the same level but its not far off.
If you want to prove it for honor of the all the people I'm apparently lying to you can - that's your interest.
Once again why do i have to note that its weaker when its not as far as i care, i guess i could note that some may find this class to be less powerful than a unchanged version but to me its a different play style





Well, you would be wrong there too. A good Sorc is harder to make than a good wizard, and much harder to fix if you make mistakes in character creation. The Wizard just buys a couple of scrolls and fixes his bad spell choices the next time he goes to town.

A Good Dm is flexible with new players to let them adapt to having made some bad choices

When i first started playing looking at a wizard was mind boggling with the vast possibility of choice and having only a small selection to play with on that day then to see what a Sorcerer could do compared - select a spell you like the look of and you can cast it heaps.

Currently i play a Archivist and love it

Tinydwarfman
2010-04-24, 10:05 AM
O.K. Granted. If someone else picks his spells for him, the sorcerer is less complicated. The wizard is still easier to build and easier to fix if you built poorly.

Yes, but a wizard is also somewhat more complicated to play. And not outright 'picking spells for you', just giving suggestions as to what good spells there are at certain levels. The sorc will still have to choose between the multiple choices you present to him with his pitiful numbers of spells known.



I realize its not the Earth Shattering combination that can be a Core Druid with a select feat and possibly not on the same level but its not far off.
If you want to prove it for honor of the all the people I'm apparently lying to you can - that's your interest.
Once again why do i have to note that its weaker when its not as far as i care, i guess i could note that some may find this class to be less powerful than a unchanged version but to me its a different play style


So you admit that it's weaker, but then say it is not a nerf... when those words are synonyms.:smallamused: Really.

It is a different play style, just like many people like sorcerers better than wizards. But it's also a weaker play style. What is so bad about saying that it is a nerf, and a fun one in your opinion. As many people have said, your druid will still be powerful.

Kaskos
2010-04-24, 11:11 AM
First off i am going to say a big thankyou to everyone who offreed advice, even if some people didnt agree with eachother - it was all received greatfully.
From what was said - does this sound like a good set up so far?
Human - Druid - Level 6
Str:12 Int: 14
Con: 15 Wis: 18
Dex: 15 Cha: 14
Human Feat: ((Will decide on these two between things such as ashborn
1st Level Feat: or the combo required for Augment Summoning))
3rd Level: Companion Spellbond
Sixth Level: Natural Spell

Animal Companion - Leopard or Bear

Gold / Gearwise - Look into Wild Armour or a Monks Belt for additional AC?
(Do i understand correct that Monks Belt gives me my Wis Modifier to my AC? And does it affect my armour + shield?)

urbanpirate
2010-04-24, 11:26 AM
First off i am going to say a big thankyou to everyone who offreed advice, even if some people didnt agree with eachother - it was all received greatfully.
From what was said - does this sound like a good set up so far?
Human - Druid - Level 6
Str:12 Int: 14
Con: 15 Wis: 18
Dex: 15 Cha: 14
Human Feat: ((Will decide on these two between things such as ashborn
1st Level Feat: or the combo required for Augment Summoning))
3rd Level: Companion Spellbond
Sixth Level: Natural Spell

Animal Companion - Leopard or Bear

Gold / Gearwise - Look into Wild Armour or a Monks Belt for additional AC?
(Do i understand correct that Monks Belt gives me my Wis Modifier to my AC? And does it affect my armour + shield?)


greenbound summoning and quicken spell are great choices for those first two feats.

Gnaeus
2010-04-24, 01:39 PM
Gold / Gearwise - Look into Wild Armour or a Monks Belt for additional AC?
(Do i understand correct that Monks Belt gives me my Wis Modifier to my AC? And does it affect my armour + shield?)

Generally, you don't get your monks belt bonus if you have armor, and it does give wisdom to AC. In my opinion, that is RAW, but opinions on this vary so check with your DM.