PDA

View Full Version : Unarmed Strike and TWF



Heliomance
2010-04-24, 09:11 AM
How do they interact? Can you use TWF to get more unarmed strikes in a round? And if you use unarmed strike, how many extra attacks do things like Dancing Mongoose give?

Yora
2010-04-24, 09:36 AM
You can use unarmed attacks for two-weapon fighting just like any other weapons.

Optimator
2010-04-24, 01:54 PM
I think some official-ish FAQ clarified you could, although it makes no sense IMO. Why not take Multiweapon Fighting for all your unarmed strikes? You know, for the headbutts, kicks, knees, elbows, the occasional wrist strikes and hip throws. :annoyed:

As for dancing Mongoose, you get an extra attack for each weapon, no? How many weapons are involved in unarmed strikes? ONE: your body. If your DM is allowing you to dual-wield fists or something then you'd get an extra attack on each fist per the boosts' description.

Nero24200
2010-04-24, 02:22 PM
Unarmed strikes can be used with TWF fighting. They are listed as a weapon in the weapon tables, have their own entry in the weapons section, and all TWF requires is that you are using two weapons.

So you can hold a weapon in both hands (like a greatsword), then headbutt or kick to gain unarmed strike, thus you are capable of using both weapons at once and qualifies for two-weapon fighting.

However, I agree with the above poster - Your body is treated as one weapon (hence why you never see any unarmed strike builds with TWF so they can use two fists at once), so if you applied unarmed strike to dancing mongoose it would be treated as one weapon.

Optimator
2010-04-24, 02:27 PM
Yeah, TWFing unarmed strikes and a held weapon makes perfect sense to me and is legit to boot. TWFing unarmed strikes and unarmed strikes is what I find so weird.

Faleldir
2010-04-24, 02:50 PM
I think some official-ish FAQ clarified you could, although it makes no sense IMO. Why not take Multiweapon Fighting for all your unarmed strikes? You know, for the headbutts, kicks, knees, elbows, the occasional wrist strikes and hip throws. :annoyed:

Barring natural attacks (which are broken IMO), you can't wield more weapons in the same round than you have hands. If your armor has 100 spikes on it, you don't get 100 extra attacks.

Remember, in this game, body parts are fluff, which is why there are no rules for facing or called shots.

Keld Denar
2010-04-24, 03:23 PM
Remember, in this game, body parts are fluff, which is why there are no rules for facing or called shots.

Assume a perfectly spherical PC?

Private-Prinny
2010-04-24, 03:30 PM
Assume a perfectly spherical PC?

Then this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147337) comes into play.

Curmudgeon
2010-04-24, 03:34 PM
Unarmed strikes use your whole body as a weapon. You've only got one body. Thus Two-Weapon Fighting unarmed seems like you're a weapon short.

But in terms of balance and how the game mechanics work, it's entirely straightforward.

Optimator
2010-04-24, 03:44 PM
Assume a perfectly spherical PC?

In a frictionless vacuum, no less.

Heliomance
2010-04-24, 04:33 PM
Assume a perfectly spherical PC?

I hereby present you with one internet.

SolkaTruesilver
2010-04-24, 04:35 PM
If you allow unarmed strike to also count as TWF, then you allow a monk to do up to 3 attacks with cummulative -4 penalty, even more at high levels.

Or anyone using only a sword, he would say he uses his fist too.

DragoonWraith
2010-04-24, 04:38 PM
Assume a perfectly spherical PC?
I had a physics test in which the celebrated and well-known correct first step to a particular question was "assume a perfectly spherical rhinoceros" (which was charging at 4/5ths c).

Myou
2010-04-24, 04:54 PM
I had a physics test in which the celebrated and well-known correct first step to a particular question was "assume a perfectly spherical rhinoceros" (which was charging at 4/5ths c).

I prefer my rhinos to be zero-point masses. :smallyuk:

Paulus
2010-04-24, 05:24 PM
I've always wanted to make a unarmed character, but in D&D it becomes a matter of adding extra damage with spells/psychics or a bazllion extra attacks. TWF is a poor choice for unarmed because of the penalties and they way it functions. All other classes meant to function unarmed have always had magical infusion for extra damage or bonus dice. They somewhat fixed this with tome of battle, Unarmed Swordsage variant, so I've heard. I have yet to look into it totally but am definitely interested in being able to actually fight unarmed.

Correct me if I'm wrong but, If I recalled I don't think TWF and Maneuvers stack... using a maneuver is not the same thing as making a standard attack so you can't apply extra attacks to it, though I could be wrong.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-04-24, 05:34 PM
The manoubers dancing and raging moongoose, give you an extra attack per weapon and two extra attacks respectively, and since they are boost, you can use them in a full attack

Paulus
2010-04-24, 05:36 PM
The manoubers dancing and raging moongoose, give you an extra attack per weapon and two extra attacks respectively, and since they are boost, you can use them in a full attack

I lay down and wiggle about corrected.

Runestar
2010-04-24, 06:19 PM
If you allow unarmed strike to also count as TWF, then you allow a monk to do up to 3 attacks with cummulative -4 penalty, even more at high levels.

Or anyone using only a sword, he would say he uses his fist too.

That is in fact the way it works. A fighter wielding a greatsword can opt to TWF with his 2-handed weapon and unarmed strike. He would take -2 on all to-hit rolls, attack with his greatsword (2d6+1.5str mod) and unarmed strike as off-hand (unarmed damage + 0.5 str mod). Just say you are kicking with your feet or something.

It is not cheap though, since you need at least IUS + superior unarmed strike (ToB). You also want high dex for the TWF feat tree. And take snap kick while you are at it. :smallsmile: