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Marvel-dude
2010-04-24, 01:32 PM
:mitd:Okay I am playing in a campain (pathfinder) in which I am playing a fighter with quite a few feats. My lowest damage would be 17 points per round (a huge greatsword with a feat that allowed me to double my str mod when wielding said sword with both hands)

Normally in battle I would cleave at least 1 enemy and so on but this one player started to get angry with me and calling me a powerplayer/munchkin and so on.

I will admit that I have always found munchkins awesome since they find one thing that they get extremely good at. And for my case it is battle.

So my question is: Am I ruining the entire campain by playing such a character even if I play him as a loner that only getsin battle by himself? Or should I just stop being a sexy shoeless god of war and just pick.. well I dont know what I should pick as a fighter if I shouldnt take feats that improved my combat abilities :mitd:

What do all of you say? Previous experiences with 1 character that dealt extreme damage per round? (And basially couldnt do anything else since his or her skillpints were in the negatives)

Volthawk
2010-04-24, 01:33 PM
Well, what level are you?

Starbuck_II
2010-04-24, 01:35 PM
:mitd:Okay I am playing in a campain (pathfinder) in which I am playing a fighter with quite a few feats. My lowest damage would be 17 points per round (a huge greatsword with a feat that allowed me to double my str mod when wielding said sword with both hands)

Normally in battle I would cleave at least 1 enemy and so on but this one player started to get angry with me and calling me a powerplayer/munchkin and so on.


Huge greatsword?
Are you sure you aren't cheating?
Unless you are enlarged, there should be no way for you to weild a huge greatsword.

Monkey grip + powerful build do not stack (in case that was your combo).

Pluto
2010-04-24, 01:37 PM
This character hardly sounds overpowered, but this sounds like something you need to work out with your group.

If you're interfering with other people's fun, then yes, you're being a douche.

If you just rubbed one guy the wrong way on a bad day, you probably shouldn't worry about it.

Listen to the people involved. They're the ones who might know what's going on.

Escheton
2010-04-24, 01:38 PM
NO
you are not
you can't do anything but fight, prolly
if your dm only uses battles as challenges thats what causes the problem.
In which case you should not have been the only god of war anyways.
so..no

ryzouken
2010-04-24, 01:39 PM
I'm guessing he's around level 6.

More importantly: what is your fighter's AC and Hp? If you can't take hits for the other players you've little business mainlining fighter. This is especially true in Pathfinder, where characters get 1 feat every odd level and other classes (notably Rogue) can pick up bonus feats galore (every even level for the Rogue).

Tell the whiner to pick up the slack. Unless he's playing a monk or bard, he should be capable of matching you almost stride for stride power wise. Fighters, even in Pathfinder, are not overpowered (or rather, everyone in Pathfinder is overpowered!)

Flickerdart
2010-04-24, 01:42 PM
17 points of damage isn't much.

Orc Fighter 1
Power Attack
22 STR
Greatsword

Swings for 2d6+9 (average 14) without PA, 16 average with PA. And it still gets another feat. Lowest would be 11 (13 with PA), only 4 points under your lowest.

Gnaeus
2010-04-24, 01:45 PM
17 points of damage isn't much.

Orc Fighter 1
Power Attack
22 STR
Greatsword

Swings for 2d6+9 (average 14) without PA, 16 average with PA. And it still gets another feat.

2d6+9 (Average 14) with normal greatsword. Upgrade (?) to large greatsword, gives 3d6+9, average 17 (with penalty to hit). That sounds about like where OP is.

Johel
2010-04-24, 01:47 PM
17 points of damage isn't much.

Orc Fighter 1
Power Attack
22 STR
Greatsword

Swings for 2d6+9 (average 14) without PA, 16 average with PA. And it still gets another feat. Lowest would be 11 (13 with PA), only 4 points under your lowest.

17 damage is a lot when it's your lowest damage, as the OP said.

EDIT :
That's 2d6+15
Hence, the OP has a Str modifier of +10, which is multiplied by 1,5 as he fight with a two-handed weapon.

Doc Roc
2010-04-24, 01:49 PM
17 damage is a lot when it's your lowest damage, as the OP said.

Not really, actually, not past 3rd level or so.

Flickerdart
2010-04-24, 01:49 PM
A 4 point gap can be easily closed with Leap Attack and wealth from levels, assuming that the OP isn't level 1.

If the OP is level 1, then his attacks aren't killing the enemy any more dead than this Orc Fighter's are, so there's still no problem.

TheCountAlucard
2010-04-24, 01:50 PM
Unless you are enlarged, there should be no way for you to weild a huge greatsword.

Monkey grip + powerful build do not stack (in case that was your combo).He could just be playing a Large character, like a half-ogre or a Maug.

Gnaeus
2010-04-24, 01:53 PM
17 damage is a lot when it's your lowest damage, as the OP said.

Oh. You're right.

So Level 4 Fighter Str 20
Greatsword +1
Feats: PA, Monkey Grip,

3d6+1(wpn) + 7 (Str) +6 (Power attack, PF rules) = min 17. Something like that?

Eldan
2010-04-24, 01:54 PM
Well, he gets double STR mod. So... 20 strength makes 10, a huge greatsword is how much, around 4d6? Then he makes the sword +1 and gets weapon spec.


Really though: dealing a lot of damage is rarely a problem. From mid levels on, fighters don't win combat by dealing a lot of damage if the DM doesn't tailor combat that way. From level 8 or so on, other defenses come into play, and the goal is reaching the enemy in the first place.


What could make you a douche is, as you said, walking off all the time and doing solo combat. If you do it too often, it means that the others get to watch you fight enemies while waiting for the DM to shift the action back to them. And waiting just isn't that much fun in DnD.

Flickerdart
2010-04-24, 01:54 PM
Additionally, remember that you're eating penalties for that oversized weapon and Power Attack. A character with a better to-hit and less damage could still end up doing more than you.

FMArthur
2010-04-24, 02:00 PM
I am frightened that your lowest damage per round is not 0. What kind of rules-witchcraft do you have to pull to be guaranteed to deal at least 17 damage every round as a fighter?

Mordokai
2010-04-24, 02:00 PM
Did anybody consider OP was using figure of speech when he said huge and not the literal size of the weapon?

Nero24200
2010-04-24, 02:05 PM
Minimum 17 Damage? I once had a barbarian at 9th level who could deal over 100 damage purely using core and PF feats and abilities.

Greatsword (Average 7)
Strength 20 (7 Damage with Two-Handed Weapon)
Rage (+3 Damage due to increased strength)
+2 Enhancement I believe it was? (+2 Damage)
Bulls Strength (+3 Damage)

So far that’s two greatsword attacks dealing an average of 22 each, so that’s 44 damage.

TWF with unarmed strike (with amulet of mighty fists that we found), which should grant an average of 10 Damage.

Can’t remember this rage power’s name (This was PF), but it granted a natural bite attack as well, so that would also deal an average of 11.5
Throw in the PF Power Attack and thats...+18 for the two greatsword attacks and +6 for the unarmed strike and natural bite.

So we’re looking at 44 + 10 + 11.5 + 18 + 6

That equals an average of 80.5

A critical hit (which wouldn’t be out the ordinary due to improved critical and well...it’s 4 attacks) or even just a lucky roll with the greatsword and it breaks the 100 damage at level 9. That’s not even close to optimisation compared to some of the things you see around here. In fact, given that the character was a half-orc barbarian, using a big weapon and feats like Power Attack are par for the course.

If they’re calling 17 damage minimum “Gamebreaking” then it sounds like they don’t have too strong a grasp on the game. 17 Damage isn’t unusual at low levels for a damage focused character, even less so once you hit 6th level and start getting iterative attacks.

My advice? Let them have what they want. Just hold back on your character for a few games (for instance, don’t power attack unless you’re in a kill or be killed situation). When they struggle to cope with CR appropriate challenges they might get a better perspective.

Admittidly, if you are going off on your own, that may be part of the problem. Even if you character isn't that powerful, fighting solo fights may unintentionally exaggerate your character's strength.

Escheton
2010-04-24, 02:08 PM
I am frightened that your lowest damage per round is not 0. What kind of rules-witchcraft do you have to pull to be guaranteed to deal at least 17 damage every round as a fighter?
Thanks, thanks a whole friggin lot.
You just broke my sarcasmometer.

Nero24200
2010-04-24, 02:14 PM
You just broke my sarcasmometer.
A sarcasmometer? Oh thats a really useful invention there...

*sarcasmometer explodes*

Johel
2010-04-24, 02:14 PM
I am frightened that your lowest damage per round is not 0. What kind of rules-witchcraft do you have to pull to be guaranteed to deal at least 17 damage every round as a fighter?

If you hit, you always deal at least 1 damage point.
If your Str modifier is positive, you'll deal more, as it is a net "+"
If your weapon rolls more than 1 dice, you'll deal more, as lowest result on 1 dice is "1" and on 2 dices is "2"

The garanteed here is conditionnal to "if the blow hits" but yeah, even a first level fighter with 10 in Str would deal at least 2 damage points with a greatsword...if he hits.


(stuff)...9th level...(stop reading)

Using rage, AVERAGE damage figure, a buff spell, two weapons... is hardly giving you your LOWEST damage capability, which was what the OP said.

Also, we don't know the OP's level but I assume he's low-level, as nobody will whine against him if he's a 9th level fighter.

Godskook
2010-04-24, 02:29 PM
Thanks, thanks a whole friggin lot.
You just broke my sarcasmometer.

Sounds like its working just fine. :smallamused:

----------

@OP, 17 damage minimum on a single hit isn't over the top, past like level 2. Seriously, I've heard said in more than one place that expected damage in 3.5 for a damage oriented character 6*ECL. If you're L4 or higher, you're actually doing *less* than you should be doing.

For example, this is what a more power-gaming charge would look like at ECL 5:

Raging Charging Pounce:
Full attack: Claw +12 melee (1d4+6) and 3 Claws +10 melee (1d4+3) and Bite +9 melee (1d6+2) and Tail +9 melee (1d6+2) and Tail +9 melee (1d8+2)

Average damage if they all hit: 42.5

I can post the build if you like, its not even that original.

Nero24200
2010-04-24, 02:33 PM
Using rage, AVERAGE damage figure, a buff spell, two weapons... is hardly giving you your LOWEST damage capability, which was what the OP said.

Also, we don't know the OP's level but I assume he's low-level, as nobody will whine against him if he's a 9th level fighter.

Try reading the rest of my post then. The point wasn't to say "this is achievable at 9th level", it was to emphasis my point - that it sounded to me that the other players in the group seemed to think 17 damage minimum was alot, even though it isn't really.

Also, the OP isn't really going for "lowest damage capacity", he admits to havinga Huge Greatsword, a weapon dealing 3D6 Damage, an ability allowing him to add double his strength modifier instead of 1.5 (which would actually overtake the Rage of a barbarian easily since, as shown above, my barbarian only gained +3 damage from rage. This particular feat only requires the character to have a strength score of 22 or higher, which shouldn't be hard to gain if he/she is big enough to be wielding a huge weapon), and lastly, he is using the PF version of cleave, which, as a standard action, grants two attacks.

So if we look at that, 3D6 which averages out to 11.5, then add strength. Even if he gets the cleave off he's already doing more than 17 damage.

It should be noted as well that my post wasn't just my experience with such a character, I also told the player what I felt was the best way to handle the other players calling him a munchkin.

Also, the OP actually asked in his Origonal Post for posters to share experiences with similer characters. I did.

icefractal
2010-04-24, 02:35 PM
Lots of damage is pretty much all a Fighter does, so he'd better be good at it. And really, 17+ damage? That's perfectly reasonable, even for low level. It sounds like this guy is:
A) A "real roleplayers play one-legged Commoners" type.
B) Also playing a melee-type and not as good at it.

If the answer is A, just ignore him and hope the DM isn't taken in. If it's B, then with some help in differentiating and making his character effective, the problem may be solved. Whether he's willing to take advice from a "munckin" is another question.

krossbow
2010-04-24, 03:00 PM
a fighter specialized in fighting? my word, what is this world coming to?

Irreverent Fool
2010-04-24, 03:12 PM
No, OP. You're not. Anyone that says you are is probably unfamiliar with D&D past 5th level or so. Yes, your character will be quite powerful during the first few levels, but he should be. That's what fighters are supposed to do. Your average rogue is going to do about half your damage when he gets flanking (which your character should be providing), but he's got a lot of out-of-combat usefulness. A fighter doesn't. A fighter fights. Do everything you can to keep his damage high so you can at least contribute some of the time at higher levels.

I believe douche has an E in it.

obnoxious
sig

Touchy
2010-04-24, 03:20 PM
a fighter specialized in fighting? my word, what is this world coming to?

Yeah I assumed everyone built their fighters to be the arcanist, I know I did. I'm kicking some major ass too with this wand of magic missile, thankfully stupid party plays by RAI though, why did the developers forget to leave UMD out of the fighter class skills anyways?

Cogidubnus
2010-04-24, 03:26 PM
This is the third time I've posted about this today, but I just started a 3.5 campaign at level 7 and saw the players eat my encounters. Part of this was following the rules for CR, but the barbarian tearing the bearded devil (CR 5) in half with one hit (from spiked armour) didn't help. So no, your power isn't really that high.

Superglucose
2010-04-24, 03:28 PM
Also compare that to just your basic 3rd level ubercharger on horseback.

Fighter 3 of any race that's not -STR

Feats: Ride-by attack, Mounted Combat, Spirited Charge.

Stats:
STR 16 (rest are whatever)

Weapon: +1 hvy lance

Damage: 3d8+12

That's a minimum of 15 damage on a hit without anything like Power Attack or even a particularly high strength. *shrugs* Your character isn't super special awesome with those benchmarks

nyjastul69
2010-04-24, 03:42 PM
Negative skill points? You should have a minimum of 4 plus 1 for every level after 1st, unless PF changed this.

In regard to your whether you're being a douche: if you're fighting solo battles outside the presence of the party, then you probably are. If you're just soloing a beastie during combats when the rest of the party is present, then no. There is reason this is a cooperative game.

I had a player (fighter) in one of my games use a large 2-handed sword with MG and almost always enlarged. Yes he was doling out excellent damage, but nothing near broken. The Mystic Theurge in the group was still superior in most ways. The Dwarven sword and board tank didn't mind that the other fighter was doing more damage, as the dwarf was much harder to hit and could stand in combat longer. Everyone thought both builds were fine and pretty much balanced out. YMMV

Shinizak
2010-04-24, 03:49 PM
I read the title as "am I being a Demi-lich." ( ._.)

ka_bna
2010-04-24, 05:02 PM
I read the title as "am I being a Demi-lich." ( ._.)
In that case the answer is No, you are not. Unless you forgot to tell us something.

Eldariel
2010-04-24, 05:13 PM
In other words, peoples' expectations are wrong if they think the first level "1d8 per hit"-paradigm stays after level 1. Level 3 character can already be dealing ~20-30 per hit if he so desires. It's really something I struggled with at first too, but the damage values in the PHB are misleading. You simply aren't expected to be dealing 10 per hit all levels, and that wouldn't make sense either as HP grows so much that you'd be hitting things for 90 turns without the being notably bothered if that were the case.

No, a completely unoptimized level 20 Fighter can regularly break 200 damage per turn and a level 10 might well have almost half of that. And optimized ones can deal quite a bit more. This is simply something one has to get used to. The nature of the game changes once levels grow even in unoptimized parties. Anything a Wizard hits might just die in one hit and Fighter can kill most things in one full-round action with little luck. This raises defenses that prevent the hits into a high value and indeed, active defense and destroying the opponent before you yourself die. It may seem frightening at first, but once one puts it into perspective and sees how those things work all-around, it'll begin to feel more natural.


And yeah, reading these forums is a good way to get accustomed to D&D lethality.

Kuma Da
2010-04-24, 05:29 PM
The fact that you are even asking this question is strong evidence to the negative. My usual rule with RPGs is: if the character concept contributes meaningfully to the game, go with it.

Now, if you're playing your strength build to mow over enemies, that's no problem. If you're playing him to take enemies away from other players, that is. Everyone wants to feel challenged at an adequate level.

There are a couple of reasons I can see this conflict having cropped up for. The first is superficially simple: the other player's jealous. You're playing a powerful character which makes him look less competent which means obviously you must be a twink. *sigh*. If he's the competitive type or has issues with people stepping on him in his personal life, he could be lashing out because he doesn't want to be overshadowed in game.

The second possibility is that the other player is looking for something different from the game. An RP experience instead of a combat one. Or maybe a much harder game, which is difficult to properly scale when one character's stronger than the rest. If this is the case, talk to the other player and your DM and try to work some new elements into the game that'll keep everyone happy.

The third possibility is that you've got a "lets everyone be mediocre" in your party. DnD doesn't encourage it, but some people (myself included) try to build underpowered characters for the sake of realism. This isn't necessarily a problem, but it throws off scale, and they can occasionally get antsy around players who do build for power.

Fortunately, there's a really quick litmus test for this. Check their skills. Do they have points in useless stuff, say basket-weaving, because it's in character? Red flag. Do they keep demanding more RP? Red flag. Do they have a lot of experience with systems like Fate, White Wolf, Seventh Sea, and L5R? Red flag. The good news about this one is that all you have to do is roleplay your character a bit more. Make being heinously powerful into a character trait, rather than a game mechanic. Their inner storyteller will probably go along with this, and the quibbling will stop.

Eldariel
2010-04-24, 05:36 PM
*snip*

You left out what I think is the likely reason: Inexperience and inaccurate expectations. Damage and efficiency grow with level, but peoples' expectations tend to be that once HP increases, fights begin to take longer. Others may simply have perceptional bias (unfortunately common in new groups in my experience) regarding their own efficiency or simply might be stuck with worse-than-average decisions (Sword & Board wondering why he isn't dealing all that much damage or caster wondering why his Fireballs feel inefficient) - but I'm actually betting on the former as in my experience, that is more common.

I've seen both happen plenty of times and I've seen the simple answer is to have everyone read the books a bit, think through it all and figure that as HP grows, damage grows in synch even though base damage doesn't raise one bit due to weapon enhancements, class features and stat increases. Someone figures it out, then breaks it out to the rest of the party and they'll slowly adjust to expectations that match what D&D offers.

Swordgleam
2010-04-24, 05:49 PM
I play him as a loner that only getsin battle by himself?

This seems like a much bigger problem than the damage. Are you sitting around looking surly whenever combat isn't happening, and running off to fight on your own at regular intervals while everyone else sits around and watches you smash things in your solo fight?

Because that would be bad. Watching someone else fight, no mater how uber or unoptimized, just isn't that much fun.

If that's not what you're doing, and I misread that sentence, sorry.

Kris Strife
2010-04-24, 06:21 PM
I read the title as "am I being a Demi-lich." ( ._.)

That's not so bad... I red Godskook's sig as having "Guess the Circumcision" in big font. :smallredface:

Marvel-dude
2010-04-24, 06:45 PM
Well to clarify some things:

I am currently a lvl 1 fighter (with flaws and traits)
human (with the trait gigantism, which grws my character to large)
Son of the gods (ares) for an extra feat and a 19 in str. +2 str because pathfinder grants humans a +2 in any stat they want and a +4 str ecause of the template Stoneboned
19+2+4= rating 25 which should be a +7 modifier

Powerful build - explains the "size:huge" great sword

A feat that grants me x2 my str modifier when wielding my weapon with both hands

a str modifier of 7

The 17 minimum of damage ppens when I hit stuff (sorr about not claring that up first :smallredface:)

The 17 pints of damage is the 3d6 (for a huge greatsword): we say that I roll 1,1 and 1 = 3
Then my str modifier x2 = 7x2=14
3+14= 17 tadaa

I normally dont use powera attack at the lower levels because I like to hit stuff more than I like to potentially be able to ht them harder

Eldariel
2010-04-24, 06:52 PM
Huge Greatsword is 4d6. Also, you should have more than a bit of level adjustment or penalties so it all balances out.

Marvel-dude
2010-04-24, 07:04 PM
Oh and I dont go into battles alone or seek them out. I was throwing that suggestion out there so I wouldnt be in combat wth my allies (and get the hole "OMFG where is the fun in dealing that much damage? Where is the rp!!!!" fom player A).

And of course sorry about the spelling (and grammatical mistakes)

So I was basically right. A fighter is used for fighting.. He/she should be able to deal quite some damage to the opponents and not much else right?

And thank you everyone for your input. It helped a lot and now I feel much better about my character :D

nyjastul69
2010-04-24, 07:08 PM
Okay, that explains how you got those bonuses. BTW what feat allows 2x str bonus for a weapon in 2 hands?

It doesn't answer some of the other queries, how much experience, how optimized, are your group. You also haven't mentioned whether by soloing you mean away from the party, or in the same battle with the group. These could go a long way to helping everyone figure out what's going on.

Edit: Forget the last part, I got ninja'd.

Marvel-dude
2010-04-24, 07:21 PM
The feat is called "Two handed power strike" prq:str 15+, poweattack - and as said it allows you to add twice your str mod in damage when wielding a weapon with both hands

we are all at lvl 1 and player A is the only one that isnt optimized.
During our last play (before the drama, which caused us to stop and play something else) we were in an arena and there we got into our first fight.
In the battle player A and B dealt about 10 points of damage (Rogue and Cleric) and I cleaved some beast or something like that.
I usually never solo since I dislike that. It was only meant as a suggestion. though I see now that nearly everyone thinks that I, on purpose, go out and seek battle. This is not the case. I battle with my allies unless it is some sort of plot (fight one on one in some ancient ritual or something similar)

Eldariel
2010-04-24, 07:27 PM
The feat is called "Two handed power strike" prq:str 15+, poweattack - and as said it allows you to add twice your str mod in damage when wielding a weapon with both hands

we are all at lvl 1 and player A is the only one that isnt optimized.
During our last play (before the drama, which caused us to stop and play something else) we were in an arena and there we got into our first fight.
In the battle player A and B dealt about 10 points of damage (Rogue and Cleric) and I cleaved some beast or something like that.
I usually never solo since I dislike that. It was only meant as a suggestion. though I see now that nearly everyone thinks that I, on purpose, go out and seek battle. This is not the case. I battle with my allies unless it is some sort of plot (fight one on one in some ancient ritual or something similar)

You aren't ECL 1 though. Big difference, which explains the issues.

Marvel-dude
2010-04-24, 07:31 PM
Oh yes of course. Both player B and I are either a template or a race with LA: +2 so of course that could be the hole reason

nyjastul69
2010-04-24, 07:32 PM
You aren't ECL 1 though. Big difference, which explains the issues.

Eldariel is quite correct. Thanks for the clarification Marvel-dude.

Math_Mage
2010-04-24, 08:57 PM
Oh yes of course. Both player B and I are either a template or a race with LA: +2 so of course that could be the hole reason

And player A...is what? A level 1 character without a template? That is not good. If he's level 3, then okay.

Tinydwarfman
2010-04-25, 12:05 AM
The feat is called "Two handed power strike" prq:str 15+, poweattack - and as said it allows you to add twice your str mod in damage when wielding a weapon with both hands


Is it from a pathfinder book or homebrewed? If so, what book is it from?

nyjastul69
2010-04-25, 12:28 AM
Is it from a pathfinder book or homebrewed? If so, what book is it from?

It sounds home-brewed to me, but I'm not familiar with PF. I'd very much like to know the source however. That said, I don't think that feat is the salient element here. It's the ECL's that seem to be causing the problem. If so, the problem should work itself out.

Hawriel
2010-04-25, 12:31 AM
hes using splat books from wizards, and or homebrew stuff. Pathfinder only has a players/gms guide, bestiary, the pathfinder campaine setting, and a bunch of adventures. No crunch splat heavy books for the powergamers yet.

However the x2 strength for two handed weapons might be a feat in the core book. It's some thing they would do.

ryzouken
2010-04-25, 01:01 AM
the PFCS is written with 3.5 content, not PF content. I've heard there's a rewrite in the works.

Two Handed Power Strike, from a brief Google search, appears to be from a Mongoose supplement entitled "Ultimate Feats" or some such.

Caphi
2010-04-25, 01:03 AM
What's the point of making a feat to get extra returns from Power Attack when wielding a weapon in two hands? Two handed weapons already get extra damage from Power Attack in both 3.5 and Pathfinder.

Divide by Zero
2010-04-25, 01:04 AM
What's the point of making a feat to get extra returns from Power Attack when wielding a weapon in two hands? Two handed weapons already get extra damage from Power Attack in both 3.5 and Pathfinder.

Not extra PA damage, extra Str damage. It just has PA as a prerequisite.

Asheram
2010-04-25, 01:16 AM
Huge greatsword?
Are you sure you aren't cheating?
Unless you are enlarged, there should be no way for you to weild a huge greatsword.

Monkey grip + powerful build do not stack (in case that was your combo).

edit. nvm. Bugger it all!

nyjastul69
2010-04-25, 01:43 AM
the PFCS is written with 3.5 content, not PF content. I've heard there's a rewrite in the works.

Two Handed Power Strike, from a brief Google search, appears to be from a Mongoose supplement entitled "Ultimate Feats" or some such.

Nice find. I own Ultimate feats. It's there. It was released in 2002 so it's a 3.0 product. IANAL, but it follows both the d20 STL and the OGL and I don't see how an entire reprint here violates any IP's. If so I apologize to the powers-that-be.

Two-Handed Power Strike (Fighter)
You have learned how to use larger weapons effectively, utilising their weight and balance to cause the maximum damage possible whenever they are swung.

Prerequisites: Str 15+, Power Attack.

Benefit: You may add twice your strength bonus to damage when using a two-handed close combat weapon with both hands. This feat may not be used in conjunction with Improved Initiative or Lightning Initiative and may only be applied when you are using the full attack combat option.

Normal: Without this feat, a character will normally add one-and- a-half times their Strenghth bonus damage with a two-handed weapon.

Nero24200
2010-04-25, 04:11 AM
I would say it becomes a different matter if you have a higher ECL than the others. Is your DM remembering to alter the amount of XP you gain? Characetrs with a higher ECL gain less XP (since they count as higher level characters). This would mean that, atfer since questing time, the Non-LA characters will catch up.

I would then advise to tell you friend to "Ride it Out". That LA is gonna seem more like a handicap once you're all the same ECL, which shouldn't take too long if the DM allocates XP right. Though if the LA is pretty large, I'd talk to the DM about maybe giving the others another level anyway, since it'll take them longer to just "get on par" with you.

Vizzerdrix
2010-04-25, 07:46 AM
May we have a listing of your party please?

It may be a ECL gap that is the trouble. If so, maybe we can offer some fun templates for him :smallsmile:

Eldariel
2010-04-25, 07:48 AM
Oh yes of course. Both player B and I are either a template or a race with LA: +2 so of course that could be the hole reason

Level 3 character is obviously stronger than level 1...so yeah... LA +2 and level 1 = level 3 others. Should just start all off level 3 if that's your thing, and then you can either use the first two levels on LA or just actual class levels.

ryzouken
2010-04-25, 02:16 PM
hehe... i took down a Half Dragon Monk 1 with my Human Fighter 1 once... That was amazing. Guy kept flurrying like an idiot. If he'd taken single swings, he'd of massacred me as two hits was all it took to end me. I should note, if he'd been using a two handed weapon he could've one shot me.

But, yeah, GM should give the Rogue and Cleric should gain 2 levels.

Pluto
2010-04-25, 02:31 PM
Guy kept flurrying like an idiot. If he'd taken single swings, he'd of massacred me as two hits was all it took to end me.
I keep seeing this. As if every AC required a roll of exactly 18 to overcome.

[/peeve]

TheThan
2010-04-25, 02:44 PM
Well normally I would say that if you have to ask someone if your being a douche you probably are. But in this case I would say you are not really being a douche as you’re just doing what fighters are designed to do. It also looks like the people accusing you of munchining really doesn’t know what he’s talking about. I mean your character is a straight fighter. My suggestion is to simply talk to the other guy, try to convince him that your not trying to run the game and that you are simply trying to contribute to the party as a fighter.

Iceforge
2010-04-25, 03:02 PM
I would, like some others here in the thread as i gather, really like to know if the complaining player is level 1 without any LA, while playing with two others who are also level 1, but both got a LA+2, which would basicly mean he is playing 2 levels (ECL wise) lower than the rest of the group, which will understandably lead to some anoyance

Ozymandias9
2010-04-26, 12:50 AM
Well to clarify some things:

I am currently a lvl 1 fighter (with flaws and traits)
human (with the trait gigantism, which grws my character to large)
Son of the gods (ares) for an extra feat and a 19 in str. +2 str because pathfinder grants humans a +2 in any stat they want and a +4 str ecause of the template Stoneboned
19+2+4= rating 25 which should be a +7 modifier

Powerful build - explains the "size:huge" great sword

A feat that grants me x2 my str modifier when wielding my weapon with both hands

a str modifier of 7

The 17 minimum of damage ppens when I hit stuff (sorr about not claring that up first :smallredface:)

The 17 pints of damage is the 3d6 (for a huge greatsword): we say that I roll 1,1 and 1 = 3
Then my str modifier x2 = 7x2=14
3+14= 17 tadaa

I normally dont use powera attack at the lower levels because I like to hit stuff more than I like to potentially be able to ht them harder

You're a fairly heavily optimized character. For someone with very low expectations for charop, that might well qualify as douchebaggery. However, since the person complaining is the only one not optimized, the problem is likely with him: were you not so optimized, he would likely end up striking at the next most optimized member of the table.

Seffbasilisk
2010-04-26, 02:31 AM
*nitpick*

Powergamers: Those who build characters effectively, some would argue to a degree that it detracts from the story, (See Stormwind Fallacy), but this can pose a problem for newbies.

Min/Maxers: Those who are, for most intents and purposes, one-, or even two-trick ponies, in just about all else, they suck. In certain cases, can be powergamers as well, just exceedingly focused. Not all Min/Maxers are powergamers. Some are just specialists, and as seen often, folks attempting to powergame, but not knowing how.

Munchkins: These foul abominations, are the true douches. They're the ones that 'pre-roll' stats before a game, conveniently shy of witnesses, who claim a die rolls 20, and snatch it up. Who misquote texts and never check to confirm. To a lesser degree, this epitah can be delivered upon those who misread, and intentionally avoid rectifying once their mistake his been discovered, hoping the G/DM doesn't notice.

All true gamers, esp. powergamers, should be akin to rangers in this regard. Take Favored Enemy: Munchkin. Aim for the throat. Favored enemy is a flat bonus, and multiplies on a crit.

Yora
2010-04-26, 02:35 AM
A munchkin is whatever kind of behaviour is annoying you right now. :smallbiggrin:

Divide by Zero
2010-04-26, 02:35 AM
All true gamers, esp. powergamers, should be akin to rangers in this regard. Take Favored Enemy: Munchkin. Aim for the throat. Favored enemy is a flat bonus, and multiplies on a crit.

Don't forget the d4 to the nose maneuver, as well.

Asheram
2010-04-26, 03:36 AM
((on a little sidenote, an argument with my DM.))

If you're a medium sized person, you can use "strongarm bracers" to wield Large weapons (as if you're effectivly one size larger.)
So if we use a onehanded weapon (such as a bastard sword) weapon with sizing, we should be able to use that as a Huge twohanded weapon, correct?

Math_Mage
2010-04-26, 06:29 AM
((on a little sidenote, an argument with my DM.))

If you're a medium sized person, you can use "strongarm bracers" to wield Large weapons (as if you're effectivly one size larger.)
So if we use a onehanded weapon (such as a bastard sword) weapon with sizing, we should be able to use that as a Huge twohanded weapon, correct?

A Medium character using Strongarm Bracers to count as a Large character for the purpose of wielding weapons can wield a Huge one-handed weapon, such as a bastard sword, in both hands with a -2 penalty to attack rolls. However, you would probably be better served by a simple Large greatsword, which may deal less die-based damage but provides substantial and certain benefits with Power Attack. A Large greatsword PAing for 2 does 3d6 + 4 before other modifiers, an average of 14.5 damage; the Huge bastard sword without PA (therefore at the same attack bonus) does 3d8 ~ 13.5 damage. The benefits of a greatsword increase with non-core feats like Leap Attack, Favored Power Attack etc.

Of course, if the DM gives you the Huge +3 flamestrike bastard sword rather than the equivalent Large greatsword, there's not much you can do about it.

hewhosaysfish
2010-04-26, 06:55 AM
To a lesser degree, this epitah can be delivered upon those who misread, and intentionally avoid rectifying once their mistake his been discovered, hoping the G/DM doesn't notice.

At first I thought "He means 'epithet' (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/epithet), not 'epitaph' (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/epitaph)"

But epitaph works if you kill munchkins on sight :smallbiggrin:

Seffbasilisk
2010-04-26, 12:15 PM
At first I thought "He means 'epithet' (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/epithet), not 'epitaph' (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/epitaph)"

But epitaph works if you kill munchkins on sight :smallbiggrin:

I blended the two in my mind. It's a harsh label, and a tombstone's engraving. I don't tolerate Munchkins. At all. There's one thing to tweak your character so a number of rules benefit you, but without the rules, the game turns into make-believe with girls. Eventually there will always be the jackass who thinks shattering the game is impressive, and wants to start with mind-reading, untouchable flat-footed AC, fire-breathing, flight, and the option to go Nova on top of that (with no burn-out following, o' 'course.)

The rules, and a good guardian of the game, (a role usually filled by the DM), keep this from happening.

You forgot your sheet? Roll up a new character. Can't point to it in a book or .pdf? Must not exist. You roll a nat 20? If you feel it might be important, call over another player to witness if you're even the type to have sketchy THOUGHTS at times.

Sucks that I have to be so draconian, but the alternative is bringing my greatsword to the table.