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View Full Version : Erudite PrC? 3.5/PF



Evil the Cat
2010-04-24, 05:21 PM
I'm considering playing an Erudite (StP) in an uncpoming campaign. The one issue I'm having is that I enjoy being creative with Prestige Classes and themes and such.

I'm trying to find a fun, thematic prestige class for Erudite. I generally don't like giving up manifesting/casting at all, but if something looks really fun I might give up 1 or 2.

I think I remember there being a rule somewhere about using casting prestige classes as psionic ones, but I don't remember where.

Any ideas would be appreciated.

As a side note, PF versions of base races are being used, and other races are having their LA reduced by 1. Are there any interesting possibilities this opens up?

Pretty much all wotc and PF books are fair game.

Doc Roc
2010-04-24, 05:24 PM
Body Leech (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040925a)
OR
Subverted Psion (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20051125a), though you'll need a little house-ruling here prolly.

As is well known around here, my favorite race is the Beguiler from Shining south, erroneously listed in the ToC as a magic item. It's cohort only, though, so you'd need to ask very nicely.

Optimystik
2010-04-24, 11:47 PM
Constructor (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625b) is perhaps the best choice - Erudites can learn Astral Construct without needing Expanded Knowledge (unlike most other non-Shapers), and because the power is so versatile it's always a safe choice for your UPD, even early on. They can learn the other required powers easily too, and unlike Psions never have to feel bad about not using them because they have unlimited Powers Known.

Crystal Master (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625d) is also a great choice - you can gain PLAs that help free up your UPD for other choices. Qualifying is cake for Erudites, who gain one of the prerequisite feats for free and have all the needed skills as class skills.

Meditant (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827c) is a curious choice - 9/10 manifesting, but the abilities seem more geared towards gishes (despite the abysmal d4 hit die.) Still, if you want some defensive punch or don't want to waste your UPD on enhancing your attributes, take a look. The meditation time can be a drag though.

Slayer and Anarchic Initiate are also standard offerings.

2xMachina
2010-04-25, 06:10 AM
Thrallherd. Leadershp on crack.

Optimystik
2010-04-25, 03:33 PM
Yes, Thrallherd does fit nicely with an Erudite also. All the cost reductions to psionic charm/dominate means that it becomes a swiss army knife vs. enemies vulnerable to mind-affecting, and therefore an always useful addition to your UPD. The thralls are an added bonus, enabling you to make up for your power limitations... despite being broken, of course.

The Glyphstone
2010-04-25, 04:28 PM
Thrallherd on an Erudite? Isn't that like asking what scope is best to put on a hunting rifle, and being told to upgrade to a bazooka?

aivanther
2010-04-25, 04:43 PM
Thrallherd on an Erudite? Isn't that like asking what scope is best to put on a hunting rifle, and being told to upgrade to a bazooka?

More like a tank, or possibly an ICBM complex.

Optimystik
2010-04-25, 04:58 PM
Thrallherd on an Erudite? Isn't that like asking what scope is best to put on a hunting rifle, and being told to upgrade to a bazooka?

Regular Erudites aren't horrible; they're actually on par with Psions. It's the variants that move into breakage territory - all three of them are extremely powerful, with StP being the worst of the bunch by a large margin.

But even if you remove the leadership ability from Thrallherd it's a good PrC choice - though I would have my DM refund me a manifester level if he removed that... assuming he didn't ban the PrC altogether.

Evil the Cat
2010-04-26, 02:19 AM
I generally don't break games, even when using very powerful builds. This is mostly because even though I optimize a bit, I won't do something if the fluff doesn't fit my liking.

I could probably talk my DM into leadership, but I think that my character would meet an unfortunate end if I built a thrallherd. I wouldn't blame him either, I'd probably do the same.

I like the thematics for Crystal Master, I just tend to be extremely reluctant to give up spell/power advancement.
Meditant seems nice, but 4 prereq feats seems a bit harsh. No flaws are allowed (well they are, but you don't get a feat)

My current concept is a LN noble who has decided that personal, internal power is the only real form of power. He'll likely be very direct with his powers. I'm thinking ego whip will be a favorite. He won't want to rely on others, so thrallherd doesn't fit (in addition to the issue of taking a powerful character to silly extremes). Both Meditant and Crystal Master fit fairly well.

Thanks for the suggestions. I guess there isn't as many psionic PrCs out there as I had hoped.

Are there any prcs that would adapt well to an erudite? I know some arcane classes can be adapted, but I forget where the rules for that are.

aivanther
2010-04-26, 10:20 AM
Regular Erudites aren't horrible; they're actually on par with Psions. It's the variants that move into breakage territory - all three of them are extremely powerful, with StP being the worst of the bunch by a large margin.

Really? Because I was pretty sure an Erudite beats a Psion since a Psion has to waste all his feats to get extra powers while an Erudite just slows his level progression. Really, Erudite is in the same realm as Wizard and Archivist, are they not? I mean, "I can do anything" basically is what causes them to be tier 1, and Erudite can do the same thing.

Optimystik
2010-04-26, 10:49 AM
Really? Because I was pretty sure an Erudite beats a Psion since a Psion has to waste all his feats to get extra powers while an Erudite just slows his level progression.

Not at all. Thanks to Psychic Reformation, a Psion can have as many Powers Known (and much higher "UPD") than an Erudite. Getting a tattoo of Psyreform means that he doesn't even have to pay exp each time he switches.

The difference is especially relevant early on. An Erudite can learn dozens of powers at level 3, for instance, but can only manifest 2 different powers each day, no matter how many PP he has. Meanwhile a Psion knows 7, but can manifest each of those 7 as the situation warrants. The versatility is a wash.


Really, Erudite is in the same realm as Wizard and Archivist, are they not? I mean, "I can do anything" basically is what causes them to be tier 1, and Erudite can do the same thing.

An Archivist and Wizard, however, are not severely limited as to which spells they can cast per day. An Erudite is basically a Wizard that can't cast spells, but can turn up to 11 of his spell slots into SLAs each day at level 20, with his PP and the cost of the powers determining the use limit. In theoretical terms, an Erudite has unlimited Powers Known; in hard numbers, he has no more than a Wilder; but because he can choose them each day, he falls somewhere between the two in practical terms.

Sophismata
2010-04-27, 10:42 AM
Can an erudite even take prestige classes? They don't advance his Unique Spells/Day, and he loses the ability to learn new powers if ever gains "as many levels in another psionic class as he has in erudite".

I wanted to create a gish once, but the inability to take full BAB prestige classes killed it.

Evil the Cat
2010-04-27, 11:04 PM
I'd consider unique spells/day similar to sorcerer's spells known for PrC advancement. That said, Erudite has to be careful about multiclassing, but 1 PrC is doable.

This is assuming that "psionic class" includes PrCs. Knowing WotC, "psionic class" is undefined, or refers only to base classes.

Optimystik
2010-04-28, 06:04 AM
If your DM rules that PrCs count as "psionic classes," just be an Erudite 11/PrC 9. Most of them lose an ML at the capstone anyway, so you're not missing an awful lot by skipping it.