Fyron's Son?

[wrybread]

I apologize if this has been posted before, but did we ever get any clarification on who Fyron's son was and when Xykon killed him? It's been bugging me for a while, Roy *twice* says that Xykon killed "Fyron and his son" and yet there's not mention of Fyron having a son who was killed by Xykon in SoD. I could see it being just a continuity error the first time since it was early in the strip, but then he's mentioned again by Roy much later in strip #434, which I believe came out at about the same time as or even later than SoD. Is this just a mistake, or do we have a Chekhov's Gunman?

[Zxo]

There is no continuity error. Fyron's son was probably killed off-screen - I imagine he tried to stop Xykon getting to the room where Fyron was.

[Nimrod's Son]

There is no continuity error. Fyron's son was probably killed off-screen - I imagine he tried to stop Xykon getting to the room where Fyron was.
If that's the case, how come Roy knows about it? Throughout Eugene's tale to Roy, a son is never mentioned.

[hamishspence]

He could have died offscreen. Remember, Eugene may be recounting what he saw, so he may not have seen Fyron's son killed, but only heard about him being killed later.

Plus, if we were only seeing the highlights of what happened, the son's death may have just been left out.

Still seems a bit odd, but it's possible.

[Nimrod's Son]

I just find it odd that the son is not mentioned at all. Especially since Eugene claims to have had a father-son relationship with Fyron, and we see several scenes of them together through the years, but the son is nowhere to be seen. The only times he's ever been mentioned in the entire saga are the two occasions Roy claimed Xykon killed him.

[factotum]

OK, here's a theory: maybe Fyron never had a son. However, Eugene believed that Roy would be unlikely to help someone who was just another wizard, so he invented a son that Roy would be more likely to identify with...

[Thanatosia]

OK, here's a theory: maybe Fyron never had a son. However, Eugene believed that Roy would be unlikely to help someone who was just another wizard, so he invented a son that Roy would be more likely to identify with...
A theory that flies to pieces when you read the prequels and see Eugene tell Roy his backstory with Fyron and Xykon and Roy accepts the quest with no mention of a son being made, and the reason for accepting the quest being made quite clear.

[NerfTW]

Nothing has ever been definitively stated. We just have two (I think) mentions by Roy of there being a dead son involved. As for one of the other major issues, Fyron's lack of emotion about it, doesn't mean anything,

(Start of Darkness Spoilers)
as we can see from Eugene's reaction during the full scene that wizards don't seem to regard death as a major stepping stone any more than the Order of the Stick does. It's only when a resurrection is blocked (in this case by making Fyron a zombie) that they become emotional. (The same reaction is seen in Dorukon when confronted with Lirian.)


The fact that his son was brought up in #434, after Start of Darkness came out, implies that it's not just a forgotten plot point from Origin.

[Danne]

I have also wondered about this. Roy's mentioned it at least twice, but Eugene, to my memory, never mentions him.

@NerfTW:
Good point about the lack of emotion stemming from "Hey, I can just bring him back!"

We don't see Xykon zombify the son, right? He raises Fyron's corpse, then leaves, yes? So is it possible that the son was revived, and is still kicking around somewhere? Doubtful, because otherwise why would Roy be so upset about his death, but it was a thought.

I know, maybe's he's Girard Draketooth.

Sorry, sorry, there's just so many wild theories floating around about Girard's identity, I couldn't resist...

[Zxo]

An idea: Maybe Roy learned about Fyron's son after he began gathering information on Xykon, and it would make sense to ask people of Cliffport about all Xykon's activities during Xykon's visit there. Xykon mentions that he killed more than one person in Cliffport. Fyron's son could be living elsewhere in Cliffport, not with his father, and it could have been one of Xykon's random kills not connected to him robbing Fyron.

[Herald Alberich]

If Fyron's son is named Fyron Jr., he could be one of the other four guys (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0110.html).

[factotum]

A theory that flies to pieces when you read the prequels and see Eugene tell Roy his backstory with Fyron and Xykon and Roy accepts the quest with no mention of a son being made, and the reason for accepting the quest being made quite clear.

I wasn't being entirely serious with that theory anyway, but then, if Eugene never mentioned Fyron's son (as you say) then where did Roy get the idea that Fyron had one, much less that he was also killed by Xykon that day?

[Herald Alberich]

I wasn't being entirely serious with that theory anyway, but then, if Eugene never mentioned Fyron's son (as you say) then where did Roy get the idea that Fyron had one, much less that he was also killed by Xykon that day?

That's basically the question this thread is trying to answer. Current consensus seems to be "we don't know." He was mentioned twice by Roy, and never by anyone else, and does not appear in either prequel book as far as we can tell.

[factotum]

Which is why I'm saying the most reasonable explanation is that Eugene told him Fyron had a son off-panel. There isn't anyone else who would have been likely to volunteer that information.

[Nimrod's Son]

Which is why I'm saying the most reasonable explanation is that Eugene told him Fyron had a son off-panel. There isn't anyone else who would have been likely to volunteer that information.
That's a big thing to leave off-panel though, and if it is indeed the case I'd have to question why.

It seems pretty obvious from the prequels that this is the one and only time Eugene has spoken to Roy about Fyron. He explains their entire history, complete with flashback images of the two studying/socialising together and growing visibly older over time. He talks of the way Fyron was a father to him in a way that Horace never was. He then talks of how he watched Fyron die, and the aftermath. We see the entire conversation, with no reason to assume anything was left out, and a son is never mentioned or seen at all - yet presumably he would have been like a brother to Eugene. Either that or something of an enemy. So why no mention? (And it appears that this was the last time Roy and his father ever spoke, so Eugene didn't clarify at a later date either.)

I really hope Rich is withholding something clever with this, because at the moment it just don't make no sense.

[NerfTW]

Here's a thought. We know Xykon killed Fyron at least 30 years prior to the start of the comic, since he had the crown at that point. Fyron's son could have died at any point during that time.

I believe the only mention is that Xykon killed "Master Fyron and his son for it". (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0434.html) This could imply that his son went after Xykon at a later date, not necessarily that they died at the same time.

We know there is a large period where Xykon was separated from Redcloak retrieving the diary. Perhaps Fyron's son was a bit more connected to the plot than we think. He might even be connected to Serini, and died during the retrieval of the diary.

[Danne]

Here's a thought. We know Xykon killed Fyron at least 30 years prior to the start of the comic, since he had the crown at that point. Fyron's son could have died at any point during that time.

I believe the only mention is that Xykon killed "Master Fyron and his son for it". (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0434.html) This could imply that his son went after Xykon at a later date, not necessarily that they died at the same time.

We know there is a large period where Xykon was separated from Redcloak retrieving the diary. Perhaps Fyron's son was a bit more connected to the plot than we think. He might even be connected to Serini, and died during the retrieval of the diary.

I like this theory, but then how would Roy have found out about it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but he didn't know about Serini or the Order of the Scribble until Shojo told him about them. If he had found out later that Jr. had been killed by Xykon, and the death had something to do with Serini, then wouldn't Roy have heard of Serini before?

Unless, of course, he just thought she was a nameless NPC witness and he thought she wasn't important. The fact that he learned about her later wouldn't necessarily mean that he'd connect "halfling-woman-named-Serini-who-is-trying-to-prevent-the-end-of-the-world" with "that-nameless-NPC-halfling-woman-who-saw-Master-Fyron's-son-die."

Hm.

[John Cribati]

Maybe Eugene considered himself Fryon's "son." He didn't have the best relationship with his biological father, after all.

[NerfTW]

But he wasn't killed by Xykon. He died of old age. Also, Roy wouldn't refer to his father as Fyron's son, he'd refer to him as his father.

[wrybread]

The only thing I can think to add to all of this is maybe Fyron's son was a Fighter who was disowned by Fyron the way Eugene disowned Roy. It would fit nicely with the ongoing theme of fathers and sons clashing over wizards v. fighters. Fyron's son decided to go after Xykon some time after Xykon killed Fyron and was defeated and killed. Eugene later shared this with Roy during a visitation that we haven't seen, during one of their discussions of whether or not a fighter could defeat Xykon.

Or possibly he's actually alive and well and living with Right-Eye's daughter somewhere.

[Sniffnoy]

I think the simplest explanation here is just that Roy has gotten the story of Fyron's murder conflated with some other murder he heard about and introduced a son where there wasn't any.

[Danne]

I think the simplest explanation here is just that Roy has gotten the story of Fyron's murder conflated with some other murder he heard about and introduced a son where there wasn't any.

That would be a decent explanation if this were real life, but it makes no sense for a storyteller to introduce something like that if that's how it's going to be explained.

[Katana_Geldar]

We know there is a large period where Xykon was separated from Redcloak retrieving the diary. Perhaps Fyron's son was a bit more connected to the plot than we think. He might even be connected to Serini, and died during the retrieval of the diary.

Possibly, but you also have to remember...

SoD Spoilers
...that Xykon had already killed Fryon by the time he met Redcloak, as Xykon is wearing the crown then. So he could have killed Fryon's son in that big gap between him getting the crown and attacking that castle where he meets Redcloak and Right-Eye, and it could have just have likely have been after.

[Bongos]

presumably he would have been like a brother to Eugene. Either that or something of an enemy. So why no mention?
You presume too much. It is quite possible Eugene never met Fyron's son. Fyron's son could have been living somewhere else. Fyron could have been keeping his son's existence a secret, who knows? So many possibilities...

[Nimrod's Son]

You presume too much. It is quite possible Eugene never met Fyron's son. Fyron's son could have been living somewhere else. Fyron could have been keeping his son's existence a secret, who knows? So many possibilities...
:smallsigh: I meant IF he'd met him, obviously.

As I already said, I hope Rich is withholding something here. I tend to think "Fyron's son was in hiding the whole time, and Roy found out about him independently of Eugene, yet for some reason holds his death far more important than almost every other atrocity Xykon has committed" would qualify. 'Cause there's bugger-all evidence for it at the moment.

[Gift Jeraff]

Another fairly popular idea is that Fyron knew of his son's death, but it wasn't a big deal to him at the time because it's quite easy for a high-level archmage-wizard to find someone with a Raise Dead spell. (He may have also had access to Wish, but I doubt that.) Also, it was, IIRC, like an hour long story according to Origins, so we can easily imagine that there was more story that Eugene told Roy but the reader did not see.

[Bongos]

wait a sec, are there now 2 threads about Fryon's son?

[KoboldRevenge]

fyron's son was hit with a permeant invibility and silent spell and was never talked to because no one wanted to make him feel bad about not being able to talk.