Reaffirmation, PLEASE!

[Bor the Barbarian Monk]

I need my faith in humanity reaffirmed, as a story coming out of NY has me believing all of humanity should be wiped out. I blogged about said story (http://sometimeswrite.blogspot.com/2010/04/big-apple-is-rotting.html). And here's the story through the Huffington Post (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/24/hugo-alfredo-tale-yax-doz_n_550854.html). (We could really use a crying "smilie," as that's what this story makes me want to do.)

The short version is that a homeless man stopped a woman from being attacked, was stabbed, collapsed...and around 25 people simply walked past him without calling the police.

Please tell me there's still hope for humanity, and if so, what it entails.

[Syka]

It's sadly common. One of those things where you think someone else will do something about it.

I was actually about to call the cops when I saw an altercation in my university town when a cop showed up. Knowing how these things happen (it's something we learned about in my psych classes) makes me try to be more vigilant about it. I figure it's better for the cops to get a dozen calls for the same thing then them to get no calls.

This (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitty_Genovese) is a well known case of the same thing. It also goes into the psychological component.

It's incredibly sad when it occurs, but society can use it as a lesson to not fall in to that pattern of diffusing responsibility.


If it makes you feel better, we've had a few incidences at my work that people have let us know of. One in particular was about a woman who was laying on the sidewalk outside not moving. She was fine, but a few people let us know, which I thought was wonderful of them.

[Astrella]

That's really depressing... :smallfrown:
Whenever I lose hope for humanity, I always go to GMH (http://www.givesmehope.com/).

[Teddy]

How people react to such situations is baffling me. There was a case here in Sweden a few years ago where a young man and his friend got assaulted by several (three IIRC) attackers and he was kicked to death, all while they were encircled by a ring of onlookers. The worst part wasn't that no one of them intervened (which is tragic, but human), but that no one of them called the police. The case led to some politicians speaking out for a law to enforces civil courage, but it soon went silent as these things tend to do after a while.

The psychological reason for this was apparently that people believe that someone else has already called 112 (the European verson of 911), and that another call would be unnecessary. So, the lesson is that if you're wittnessing some sort of emergency, call 112/911/whatever emergency number you have, because you might be the first one to do it, and nothing bad at all is going to happen if you weren't the first one to do it.

[TSGames]

I cannot give you reaffirmation anymore than I can give you denial. Humans are inherently evil, and nowhere is this better expressed than in our apathy towards the plights of others. However, once you accept that humans are inherently evil the acts of good in the world mean so much more, and no longer will you need to seek reaffirmation of faith in something in which you should not have faith. It is a truly amazing thing when a human is good, or when a human commits acts of good. You don't need 'faith' in humanity to see that, but you do need this 'faith' to be bothered by the grim reality of human existence. Cast it aside, and you will be better for it.

[Malfunctioned]

I cannot give you reaffirmation anymore than I can give you denial. Humans are inherently evil, and nowhere is this better expressed than in our apathy towards the plights of others. However, once you accept that humans are inherently evil the acts of good in the world mean so much more, and no longer will you need to seek reaffirmation of faith in something in which you should not have faith. It is a truly amazing thing when a human is good, or when a human commits acts of good. You don't need 'faith' in humanity to see that, but you do need this 'faith' to be bothered by the grim reality of human existence. Cast it aside, and you will be better for it.

Yeah, I'm sorry but I do not believe this for one moment.

I believe that most humans are inherently good, and by that I don't mean goody-two-shoes Snow White kind of good, just normal every-day nice people. For every bad thing that gets picked up by the media several good will go unnoticed. People aren't evil. Not all of them.

[Prime32]

There's a story I like to bring up at times like this.

Years back, I used to participate in local YGO tournaments. A friend of a friend had just started playing and didn't have many good cards, so he went around looking for trades. He didn't get any since, well, he didn't have many good cards.

Then we asked if people would give him cards. They gave him the same cards they'd been unwilling to trade.

[Quincunx]

Affirmation: The choices other people make about their self-worth mean nothing at all to you when judging your own self-worth.

[Teddy]

I cannot give you reaffirmation anymore than I can give you denial. Humans are inherently evil, and nowhere is this better expressed than in our apathy towards the plights of others. However, once you accept that humans are inherently evil the acts of good in the world mean so much more, and no longer will you need to seek reaffirmation of faith in something in which you should not have faith. It is a truly amazing thing when a human is good, or when a human commits acts of good. You don't need 'faith' in humanity to see that, but you do need this 'faith' to be bothered by the grim reality of human existence. Cast it aside, and you will be better for it.

After reading Gulliver's Travels by Jonathan Swift, I've decided that he was cynical whiner and humans aren't nearly as evil as he depicted us. There are a lot of "good" written in our genes, and some bits of "evil" too, and some moderate deal of "stupid" to spice it up, but it's helped us survive as social creatures, so we can't be just evil by inheritance.


Please tell me there's still hope for humanity, and if so, what it entails.

There is, but it's often made invisible by the stupidity and ignorance. For example, you say that ~25 people just walked by, but that means that the 26 person to pass by reacted and did something to try and help this man. Media seldom mentions the person who acts in this cases, but settles with writing about those who don't. If someone interviewed the one who finaly made the call, that person would be able to show the world that there are those who fights ignorance too, because I do have the feeling that people who know that there are people who act too are more likely to act themselves. Somehow I do believe that reading about ignorance and outright evil leads to cynicism, which might reduce your willingness to help others.

[skywalker]

The short version is that a homeless man stopped a woman from being attacked, was stabbed, collapsed...and around 25 people simply walked past him without calling the police.

I can understand how this happened. I'm curious whether or not blood could be seen underneath him, or if he just looked like he passed out. I know that if it were me, and I walked passed him and didn't see blood, I'd think "dude's just high/strung out/insert your drug effect here." I would be afraid to help him because he might wake up and lash out at me, and I wouldn't want to call 911 because I might get him in trouble.

I can kinda fault the guy who picked him up, but then again, if you picked up a body and found blood pouring out of him, would you think "Call 911?" I know the first thing I would think would be "don't get mixed up in this. This s*** is heavier than you." I would probably call 911, but then again, you don't know about the guy who picked him. He could have outstanding felonies, etc.

I will fault the girl, tho. She had to at least know the guy was still struggling with her attacker. Unless she too had outstanding felonies, or something.

[Reinboom]

When I lived in San Francisco, the local laws helped to encourage against helping. It was rather frustrating.
If you even made a passing comment to ask someone "are you okay?" and then don't stay in their immediate vicinity until professional help arrived, then they suddenly gain a leverage to bring a lawsuit against you.


That's really depressing... :smallfrown:
Whenever I lose hope for humanity, I always go to GMH (http://www.givesmehope.com/).

That website serves to just sadden me. :smallfrown:

[Moff Chumley]

I honestly don't know what to say. Terrible things happen for no good reason, beautiful things are created and destroyed, people die, and people are born. You can't really count on humanity, in a way. You can only look at yourself, and at the world immediately around you, and try to make them as good and right as possible. If you worry about everything, you won't be able to do any good in the short run...

This is just what I've observed. I'm 16, I honestly don't have all that much experience in this word. However, the only way I've ever been able to posotively impact my surroundings has been by living in the now and believing against the evidence that all people deserve a good and happy life...

[pinwiz]

I'd be interested to see the time of death as to whether anyone calling the police would have mattered at all. I'm not saying that they were in the right to not stop and get help, just that i'm wondering if it would have helped.

And I think humanity is not inherently evil, just inherently stupid.

If you want affirmation that humanity should live, just browse this site. It's one of the happiest places i've found, and people's fun banter or unique ideas show that we're more than a murderous lot of pigs.

[Atreyu the Masked LLama]

I once recall a group of people on a forum raising money for someone on the forum could go see their very sick brother when said person didn't have the money. I do not recall seeing that touching story on the news.

The other day I was at a friend's house when a stranger knocked on his door needing money for gas. My friend gave him some money and the man went on his way. This act of kindness also did not make the news, however, had the man attacked and killed my friend and me, or had my friend attacked the man, that would have made the news.

The good is out there, you just have to look for it. The evil sells more newspapers, so you don't need to look for it.

FWA, a recent convention I went to, raised approximately 4,500 dollars for an animal rescue charity. I didn't see the local news report on FWA, but I think it was just a fluff piece, so I'm not sure this made the news.

Cardhalla, an event at Gencon, raised over 400 dollars from the opening throw alone, that's not even counting the actual change donated to Gencon's charity. The Gencon charity auction will see people paying OVER the retail cost of boardgames that are on sale 50 feet away simply because the money goes to charity.

[Remmirath]

I can be somewhat cynical, certainly, but what I will say is this (from what I've observed):

The news prefers to focus on the shocking, depressing, and sad aspects of life. If you get your information from news sources, this will be what you see. For every horrible thing that happens there are many good things that happen but go unreported. The only time you'll ever find an article about something good happening is if nothing bad happened that day, which is fairly unlikely - or if it was very outstanding. Small acts of cruelty will be remarked upon more than small acts of kindness.

Things like what you mentioned in the blog. I'm sure nobody wrote a news story about that, but I'm equally sure things like that still happen, even if they're small things. Maybe nobody knows about them except those who were right there, but they still make the world a happier place for those people.

I'm not going to read more on the story, as I don't do too well reading things like that, but if most of the people walked by quickly - well, they might not have noticed. I've failed to notice things as large as a new refridgerator in the kitchen, so if you're walking by quickly you might just register a dark shape. Obviously that's no excuse for those who did notice, but that may not have been most of them. (Discount this if that obviously isn't the case, of course.)

The more people there are on the planet, the more bad people there are - but also more good people. It evens itself out, I think.

I can't really think of anything else to say.

[Blue Ghost]

I don't put much stock in humanity. All we can do is do the best we can and share what we have with those around us. It doesn't matter if humanity is deserving or good. Good exists in the world, and good exists in each one of us.

[Trog]

Cardhalla, an event at Gencon, raised over 400 dollars from the opening throw alone, that's not even counting the actual change donated to Gencon's charity.
Props where they are due, when I went to GenCon a couple of years back half the amount of the first throw was donated by a single person... a forumite, actually. I'm not sure if he wants it said who it was or not but I'll just say I found the gesture impressive considering the rampant consumer opportunities of the event itself.

Though I sympathize with you, Bor, on the sort of upsetting effect these sorts of stories can have. I... er... sort of embarrassing... but... well I once saw a story like this... on TV... and I got upset and like pounded the coffee table while saying something along the lines of "somebody DO something" as, in the story, this woman was getting stabbed to death by her estranged husband while all the neighbors stood around and watched. It was one of those "based on true events" sort of stories.

Anyways, yeah... I, uh, actually broke a bone in my hand because of that. Stupid, I know. Hopefully that means I wouldn't be the type to stand there and watch because I don't know that I could live with myself if I just stood there and such... but hopefully I'll never really find that out.

[RS14]

For every horrible thing that happens there are many good things that happen but go unreported. The only time you'll ever find an article about something good happening is if nothing bad happened that day, which is fairly unlikely - or if it was very outstanding. Small acts of cruelty will be remarked upon more than small acts of kindness.

I disagree with your argument. You're assuming that many small acts of good can balance out larger acts of evil.

How many people holding the door for someone does it take to outweigh this? Or the similar Kitty Genovese murder? Or (my personal preferred example of just how evil we can be), the torture, rape, and murder of Junko Furuta (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Junko_Furuta)?

I assert that many small acts are not an adequate counter for a single act of utter evil.

And furthermore, I cannot conceive of any single act of good which is an adequate balance for Junko Furuta's murder. Or the Massacre of Oradour-sur-Glane (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oradour-sur-Glane#Massacre). Or any number of actions during the Holocaust.

Sorry if the addition of these examples causes others to despair. I do too.

[Ravens_cry]

There is a story of a person, standing before the Creator of the Universe.
And this person, burdened and heavy with sorrow, spoke with a face lined with tears, voice cracking with anguish said unto Them, "Look at all the heartbreak there is in the world, the pain and suffering, the lies and falsehood, hate and anger, all the waste, war and destruction, why do You not do something, why don't You send help?"
And the Creator answered, " I did."

" I sent you."

I read that story, and I am ashamed. I do not do nearly enough to be worthy of that burden. But that is why we are here, that is our task, to try and make the world, in our own, personal way, a little bit better then we left it. Whether you believe in a deity or not, I hope you take the meaning from this story. As a journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step, so the work of millions is done by one, millions of ones. It's so easy, oh God I do it all too often, to skirt this responsibility, to simply think "What can I do?" and instead of finding out, doing nothing. But together, change has happened. Civil Rights movements, the peaceful independence of India. These are changes that happened not with violence, but people working to make the world a more fair, and more just, place.
Are you ready? Are you willing to take this burden? It is heavy, but it is one we can share.
Peace and Long Life.
Live Long and Prosper.

[Remmirath]

I disagree with your argument. You're assuming that many small acts of good can balance out larger acts of evil.

How many people holding the door for someone does it take to outweigh this? Or the similar Kitty Genovese murder? Or (my personal preferred example of just how evil we can be), the torture, rape, and murder of Junko Furuta (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Junko_Furuta)?

I assert that many small acts are not an adequate counter for a single act of utter evil.

And furthermore, I cannot conceive of any single act of good which is an adequate balance for Junko Furuta's murder. Or the Massacre of Oradour-sur-Glane (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oradour-sur-Glane#Massacre). Or any number of actions during the Holocaust.

Sorry if the addition of these examples causes others to despair. I do too.

No, you're certainly right about that. I didn't make myself clear enough, I suppose (probably too tired). I meant that fairly small acts of good balance out fairly small acts of evil, not that enough small acts of good balance out large acts of evil.

I see not stopping to help someone (assuming there was no active malicious intent behind it) as a small act of evil, which would be balanced out by stopping to help someone. That kind of thing.

I was trying to state that if you go only by things you hear on the news, the glimpse of the world you get will probably be more bleak than it really is. Not to say that it's not bleak at times, as it certainly can be, just that it isn't as unrelentingly bleak as it may appear. Even if the small good things do not balance out larger evil things, the world is still a better place on the whole if they occur than if they do not occur.

[ForzaFiori]

Plenty of good goes on in the world Bor. As someone pointed out, I still remember when we sent a certain someone across the US to see his brother. I remember when several friends of mine helped me out depression, and it helped so much that I've gone over a year without cutting myself or falling back into it. Charities do good all the time. The news is not a good place to get a view of the world, because they work on shock value. The news of someone getting ignored while they died is not as shocking as the news that someone was stabbed, and the first person who saw them called 911. While the little acts of kindness don't equal the large bads, there are plenty of big goods that go mostly unnoticed. In the terrible evil that was the holocaust, there were many people like Oskar Schindler who helped thousands of people escape. 22,216 have been recognized by Israel for helping. (Partial list of those who helped (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_individuals_and_groups_assisting_Jews_duri ng_the_Holocaust))
Hardly any of them made it into the news.

[golentan]

No.

No, I will not, and possibly cannot.

I will not reaffirm your faith for you.

Here's a secret for you: People are selfish and stupid and greedy. Most of them lack empathy for more than a handful of other people: Those they consider part of their tribe. They are capable of doing the most ruthless, bloodthirsty, and despicable things if pushed the right way, or if the right buttons are hit. And you will see that, over and over again. It will be trumpeted from every hilltop each time a human being finds some new way to show depravity.

They are also capable of vast good, of kindness well beyond their apparent faculties and development. But you won't see that, not unless you look for it. And you can't get it off a forum, and you can't get it from a news site. It's uncommon, and all the more heroic for it. You have to go out, and talk to people. Volunteer at a local soup kitchen, or help someone who's down on their luck. Ask an EMT why they do what they do, and buy them a cup of coffee the next time you pass a hospital (they need it: oh gods do they need it. Caffeine kept me alive when I was volunteering with something nowhere near as demanding).

You want faith? Go out and make something worth having faith in. Don't sit here whining about how bad people are unless you've been on the front lines. Until you're willing to step up to the plate and try making a difference. No, it's not a pretty picture out there, and it's not happy, and it's dark and sad and depressing. And that's why I have faith. Because people hurl themselves into the void every generation, pushing back the shadows inch by bloody inch with nothing but the sweat of their brow and a determination that the future will be better. Because by their toil, against all odds, life continues to get better. If you want faith in some namby-pamby platitude of the goodness of humanity, sugar coated with saccharine stories about how people are good by nature, this isn't your world. People aren't good by nature, they're good by choice in spite of it. And that's a far better thing, even if it isn't easy to swallow.

So no, I won't reaffirm your faith for you. You have to choose to do that yourself.

[pinwiz]

The more I think about this the more I get confused at why people are giving up on humanity because 30 people didn't call a phone number. That's such a tiny fraction of the people in the world or even that city. It's causing me more grief and anger to see people talking like there is no good in the world, or that that good is not worth anything.

To let the evil of the world overcome your hope and will to strive forward and improve is to empower that evil. What i'm saying is that the evil should be stopped by action, not helped by despair.

And about the actual situation? this all happened at night, didn't it? The guy killed was a homeless man lying face down. A homeless man in the dark lying down might just look like a homeless man. We also don't know the situations of the passers by. While I am an advocate of public service and believe that everyone should look after their neighbor, I think it's over reaction to want to condemn 4 billion people based on the actions of 30.

I really hope i'm not offending anyone, but i'm getting frustrated and need to vent. So there it is.

[742]

theres all this complex stuff going on about our genetics and the way we process information and how that changes us and how different things change us differently depending on other things that might have happened and what it all means is this: any blanket statement about human nature is probably wrong. we arent good, we arent evil, even if you define all that really well and everything i just said was a lie. except for the stuff about lions. *wants to hug the fuzzy giant kitties even if theyre likely to bite my head off*

[Thajocoth]

If I had passed by, I would've called someone for help. Even if I was running late for something, "Sorry, someone was dying and needed help" is ALWAYS a good excuse.

Since I know that most people assume other people will handle it, I assume that everyone else assumes other people are handling it, and therefore are not handling it.

If you're ever in that sort of a situation, the best thing to do is to single somebody out in the crowd. People are more likely to respond when their response is weighted higher by singling them out. Though, I had the benefit of being told this information in a college course (social psychology), most people don't.

Also added to the situation is likely the fact that being homeless is almost the same as being invisible in the city... A lot of people beg for money, and many of them are con artists who are not actually homeless or anything, and many residents in the area have learned to simply block them out. I did something similar with advertisements and signs a while back and had trouble finding places I was looking for while looking right at them, or standing next to signs that said where they were... Subconscious mental information filters aren't really a great idea.

"one stopping to snap a picture of the dying man with his cameraphone before leaving the scene"

This is just abhorrently disgusting. It's worse than not responding at all. He took the time out to react... WITH his phone even! And looked right AT the guy!! Are we sure the guy with the cameraphone was human? If so, he must've gone through something major to have his basic emotional systems stripped bare like that. That's just Evil.

[faerwain]

The case led to some politicians speaking out for a law to enforces civil courage, but it soon went silent as these things tend to do after a while.


Germany actual has a law that punishes denied help, which also includes not giving first aid at an accident. It requires that you would have been able to do so without endangering yourself, though. Back when my sister was learning at a hotel, one of the guests snapped and locked a guy from the staff inside his room and beat him up. When the police arrived they immideately took reports on half the night shift for not coming to this guys help/calling the authorities.


When I lived in San Francisco, the local laws helped to encourage against helping. It was rather frustrating.
If you even made a passing comment to ask someone "are you okay?" and then don't stay in their immediate vicinity until professional help arrived, then they suddenly gain a leverage to bring a lawsuit against you.

That's..counterproductive:smalleek:

The widespread fear of getting sued by the victim is actually also adressed legally here. The minute you start giving First Aid the law puts you automatically under insurance for damages you might unintentionally cause, covered by federal funds.

Um, yeah, it possibly does not reaffirm you that there are places where it's tried to force people to be good, but I'm not that awake yet for meaningful sentences. It's very easy to lose hope, but try not to. Catch some older newspapers and read again about that French guy, who jumped into the Hudson and saved a little girl, and then went continuing his vacation and flying back home because he wouldn't even think that people might want to celebrate him.

Or think about that little walking-impaired old lady who left my father's bank when she saw a masked man entering the building and immedieately returned to warn the staff. Fortuantely, it was only a motorcycling customer who still had his face protection on, but she was willing to put herself in the middle of a bank robbery to give a warning.

[Bor the Barbarian Monk]

Okay...This will be my third attempt at making a new post.

I suppose the greatest problem in my quest for reaffirmation is that I AM the good person. I would have called for help. I would have done SOMETHING! Shake the man and then walk away? It would never happen. Stop and take a picture before leaving? The idea is so grotesque and morbid that I can't believe it, even when I see it.

Making this worse is that I've DONE it. I've found someone unconscious and called for help.

I've also...

1: Fed a family of four when they were out of food.
2: Bought a homeless man a meal when he had no way to pay.
3: Essentially saved a lost child at a crowded Wal-Mart.
4: Stopped a young man from beating his girlfriend.
5: Gathered donated gifts for a little girl that was suffering the existential lash of leukemia.
6: Summoned the police for the numerous incidents of gunfire at my old apartment complex.
7: Aided a deaf neighbor in communicating (in general, but specifically when she almost torched her apartment by accident).
8: Given a woman her first dance since losing her leg to cancer.
9: It's just a rumor, but I hear tell I've helped countless Playgrounders with some serious issues, (and have thus been helped in return).
10: Babysat a financially distraught woman's children regularly for some length of time, occasionally accepting a "fee" of a bottle of Diet Coke.

So rumor has it I'm one of the good guys. So good, in fact, that acquaintances of the past say I don't belong in this world. My inexplicable reaction - being so upset over this single event - to Hugo's death has managed to overwhelm me throughout Sunday...

But I thank those who tried to remind me of some of the good in the world, with a special thanks to those who reminded me of the "Pocket Full of Miracles" I once carried in my pocket when my brother almost died.

[Helanna]

See, Bor, the thing here is that you ARE one of the people that reaffirm my faith in humanity.

Evil in the world is common, yes, but anyone who says that all humans are evil at heart is just insane. Evil people represent a very, very small fraction of the world's population. The vast majority of people are good (or at the very least neutral).


How many people holding the door for someone does it take to outweigh this? Or the similar Kitty Genovese murder? Or (my personal preferred example of just how evil we can be), the torture, rape, and murder of Junko Furuta?

I assert that many small acts are not an adequate counter for a single act of utter evil.

And furthermore, I cannot conceive of any single act of good which is an adequate balance for Junko Furuta's murder. Or the Massacre of Oradour-sur-Glane. Or any number of actions during the Holocaust.


Sure, small acts are never going to 'balance out' larger acts of evil. But what's a better indication of humanity: The murder of millions that was mostly perpetrated by a few people at the top, or the thousands of people who have devoted their entire lives to curing or treating diseases like cancer or diabetes? They've saved more lives than were lost in the Holocaust, but they don't get recognized. What's a better indication: That people didn't even call the police when they heard a woman being murdered, or the millions of people who donate what they can to charity every single year, to help out complete strangers that will never even know they helped?

My point is, good things happen too, just as often as bad things. Anybody who says that they don't, or that the evil events are more important for some reason, is just trying to focus on the negative to support their cynical view. And anybody who claims that humans in general are evil - well, I'm not evil, and no one I know is evil, and I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of the world isn't actually evil, so I'm going to call that a lie. They're just people. I'd say humanity's biggest flaw is fear, which is why so many people don't try to help. It still doesn't make them actively evil, it makes them human. The world isn't perfect. That doesn't mean it's worthless.

[The Glyphstone]

These situations are why I keep http://www.givesmehope.com bookmarked. It really is the little things in life that matter sometimes.

[Amiel]

I need my faith in humanity reaffirmed, as a story[...]has me believing all of humanity should be wiped out.

:smallyuk: Yeah, no. Would really appreciate it if you didn't make negative, blanket statements like that. Just because you witnessed that incident happening (a very sad case of that city's over-reluctance and aversion to helping and not caring; what? and why?), it does mean that the rest of humanity should be obliterated. Does not compute.
Or was it hyperbole.


People do need to get smacked out of their apathy and their selfishness.

[Telonius]

I'd say that most humans aren't inherently good or inherently evil. Most of them are inherently lazy. They'll do the minimum they think is required to get the maximum expected return.

By the way, this isn't totally limited to humans - it's a fairly consistent evolutionary principle. A cow isn't going to walk up the mountain to get an extra-yummy piece of grass when there's a whole clump of average grass right next to it. A lion isn't going to go after the strongest wildebeest in the herd, he's going to go after the easiest catch.

Where we're different from the cows and wildebeests, is that at least some of us have realized that, hey, maybe we shouldn't be satisfied with going for the easy thing - especially since going after the difficult thing will improve our lives in unexpected ways. In other words, they see that there is a return more important than immediate gratification. But in many cases that return is uncertain, far-off, or otherwise doubtful.

Getting the rest of the people to be just a little bit more conscious of that sort of thing is a hard job - because it doesn't change the fact that the easy stuff is easy. The conscious person then ought to take steps to change the rules of the game - to make the good the same thing as the easy, and the bad the same thing as the difficult. This works with our nature, instead of against it. Perhaps a modest reward - say $10, or a picture in the paper for "heroes of the week" - for being the first person to report such a crime would help prevent this sort of thing from happening again.

[HellfireLover]

Humans are selfish creatures, and generally won't lift a finger to do much of anything unless it profits them in some way. Yes, there are many small acts of kindness which go unrecognized, but there are also many, many tiny (and not so tiny) acts of cruelty which also go unnoticed and unacknowledged, and on balance, I'm inclined to say that these will win out in a straightforward numbers battle. If we're talking about psychological impact... well, who can say. We can't really help it, the isolation in our own thoughts makes it inevitable, and few are inclined to meditative introspection, to be honest. With careful thought, we can recognize this and do our best to oppose it, of course; but so many aren't willing to make that effort to be aware of their own actions (or inactions), it is like trying to empty the ocean with a teaspoon.

I would honestly be proud if someone considered me to be one of those with a teaspoon, though.

[Player_Zero]

Geez. Maudlin in here much?

Someone throw a freaking pie.

[golentan]

So that just means you have another choice: Let this shake your desire to help, or keep being good.

[Quincunx]

With gusto, sir! It's fish pie.
(Amazing the difference asking can make. Also, asking for something specific. It's the difference between 'help me' and 'get help', if you can remember such distinctions when at rock bottom. At any rate, less digression, more pie.)
(Wind up frisbee-style, THROW!)

[shadow_archmagi]

I had a friend, who was a real nerd, show up a half hour late to class. Everyone was shocked. We asked why.

He said that on his way out of the library he had found a woman bleeding on the sidewalk, and taken her to the hospital.

[Chaelos]

I can understand how this happened. I'm curious whether or not blood could be seen underneath him, or if he just looked like he passed out. I know that if it were me, and I walked passed him and didn't see blood, I'd think "dude's just high/strung out/insert your drug effect here." I would be afraid to help him because he might wake up and lash out at me, and I wouldn't want to call 911 because I might get him in trouble.


+1

It's 6 in the morning at the time this happened. People are sleeping at 6 in the morning. I think people are allowed to be indifferent to the "plight" of someone they perceive to be asleep. The girl who ran off and the man who turned him over, on the other hand, have absolutely no excuse.

But I don't think this is a "lose your faith in humanity"-caliber situation; if human beings really were just worthless and rotten to the core, the dead man wouldn't have gotten involved in the first place, either. To immediately launch into a histrionic "WE'RE ALL EVIL" spiral of despair is to denigrate not just his actions, but those of all heroes.

[shadow_archmagi]

Also, it's been shown that there is an inverse relationship between the likelihood a person will help and the number of people present. In fact, in some studies, groups had difficulty recognizing that there was a problem at all.

[Saint Nil]

Hope for humanity as a race? We may never know. However, YOU are a human.

We may never create a perfect world, but we are responsible for our actions, and it is up to use to make sure that we do the right thing. Now matter how much it hurts, on a basic level we must understand we can't control if other people do the right or wrong thing. At best we can show a good example and help others understand right from wrong.

Continue living your life like you know you should, and humanity will be okay, because we are humanity. Let's make the most of it.:smallsmile:

[Krade]

Props where they are due, when I went to GenCon a couple of years back half the amount of the first throw was donated by a single person... a forumite, actually. I'm not sure if he wants it said who it was or not but I'll just say I found the gesture impressive considering the rampant consumer opportunities of the event itself.

You could have mentioned that you provided $20 to that donation:smallwink:

Though I was kinda hoping that my picture would be in the program the following year... alas, no such luck:smalltongue:

Edit: I believe the total was $160. That number got into the program for the next year.

I still can't believe I actually missed the first throw:smallsigh:

Edit II: Also just goes to show what sort of things happen when I'm in possession of large sums of cash.

[Lady Tialait]

I guess I am one of the bad people in the world. You see, I can see myself seeing a many stabbed several times in the chest and just walking by. No tinge of guilt about anything. No urge to help them.

Seeing there are a vast majority of people who do the same brings me a sick kind of joy. Not jumping about laughing and giggling, but the kind that shows that I am not a monster, but a human. If something does not effect me or my family...I do not react to it. Selfishness is the nature of most people, and something deep in me feels good knowing that selfishness isn't something that makes me a monster, but something that makes me more like the species I am part of.

I have saved people from being homeless, starving, helpless, and otherwise. I have donated cash to different charities. But, it's always with something in my mind of "This could effect me on a personal level." or "If I do this my son's life will be better." never to help those I don't know.

So, I guess I'm one of the bad ones.

[Moff Chumley]

People do need to get smacked out of their apathy and their selfishness.

People need to not make*incredibly ignorant and rude claims about one of the most warm-hearted members of this community. People should also probably read the post two previous to theirs...

tl;dr: Please think before you type.


Geez. Maudlin in here much?

Someone throw a freaking pie.

I'll fetch the funk LPs.

[The_Librarian]

Hmm, I tried a quick search on my favourite news site for a heart-warming story about people being, and failed to find anything, sorry :smallfrown: But good news isn't really "newsworthy". The very reason that the tragic death of that brave man is newsworthy is because it's unusual. So, for every bad thing you read in the news, just remember that it's outnumbered by lots of boring goodness.

One of my friends recently qualified as a doctor and was back in town for a visit. It was his special night, and we were out for a curry with him. There was a chap collapsed in the doorway next to the restaurant who another friend spotted. Okay, in the end the guy was just utterly, utterly drunk, but our friends would not relax until they were sure the guy was okay - even getting the restuarant to get him a glass of water. Newsworthy? Heck no. To be honest, I hadn't even thought of it until tonight.

I hope that's reassuring, anyway.
:smallsmile:

[Jack Squat]

This case really helps highlight the mentality of people in larger cities. There's the mentality that another poster mentioned, where people think that somebody else has already done something. There's also the thought that someone much more qualified will be along shortly. In larger cities, there's a high concentration of police, firemen, and paramedics. While the abundance of emergency services is a good thing, it encourages people to not get involved. Head out into more rural areas, and people are more willing to help because "qualified help" is harder to come by.

There are obviously exceptions to this generalization, but I've found it to be true in most cases.

As an aside, people are generally willing to help in emergency situations once their involved. If a crowd sees someone who needs aid, most people will stop and watch, or continue walking. However, if someone takes command, and tells someone to call 911, or to hold someone's head in neutral position, or to direct traffic, people will. People seldom rise to the occasion, but rather fall back to their level of training.

[Mauther]

People get the society they create. As society pushes responsability away from the individual, individuals are less likely to act responsibility. As others have already said, people assume someone else will take care of it. Just like powerty, healthcare, defense, everything else. I realize I'm makeing a generalization, but it has seemed to be the case that people in rural towns are less likely to behave this way, because of that expectation of personal responsibility. 2 quick ancedotes that illustrate my feelings.

Coming back from the bars back in college about 2am, I was with my girlfriend when I see this guy across the street trying to drag a lady out of a car, date gone bad, she's screaming for help and he's screaming he's gonna kill her. I didn't even think, I just ran at the guy (just my upbringing taking charge). As I get close enough that violence is imminent, my brain starts to realize I haven't thought this through all the way and I start trying to figure out how I'm going to handle this because this dude was big. Suddenly, the guy looks up sees me and just starts backing up. I'm feeling like a right bad-ass until I realize about 6 other guys I've never seen before in my life are right behind me. We sat on the guy till the cops showed up, gave our statements, then went our separate ways. never even caught their names. No one acted out of any sense of self interest.

Last summer, I decided to clow off some steam by taking a drive. Got turned around, ended up in BFE on some little coutry road with no traffic. My car overheats and I pull over in front of an abandoned church. Places is locked up and I can't see any residences. Within 5 minutes, an old guy in a pickup had pulled over and emptied the bed of his truck looking for water, before promising me he'd be back with water and something to plug the leak. Now I'm a pretty big guy, and I wasn't looking pretty since I hadn't shaved in a couple days and was hot and miserable from the sun so I'm sure I looked kind of scary. But over the next 30 minutes I had a bunch of other people stop to make sure I was alright and that I was being assisted, including a pregnant lady with 2 little kids in tow. That lady would have been completly justified leaving me sitting in the shade on the side of the road. Instead she almost physically forced me into her car, and when I finally convinced her I was just waiting for the first guy to return she gave me her kids juice box and waited with me till the old guy returned (along with a deputy with a tow cable in case I had more serious problems). That pretty much served to full up my faith in humanity for the next decade or so.

[Decoy Lockbox]

I need my faith in humanity reaffirmed, as a story coming out of NY has me believing all of humanity should be wiped out. I blogged about said story (http://sometimeswrite.blogspot.com/2010/04/big-apple-is-rotting.html). And here's the story through the Huffington Post (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/24/hugo-alfredo-tale-yax-doz_n_550854.html). (We could really use a crying "smilie," as that's what this story makes me want to do.)

The short version is that a homeless man stopped a woman from being attacked, was stabbed, collapsed...and around 25 people simply walked past him without calling the police.

Please tell me there's still hope for humanity, and if so, what it entails.

If it helps you feel any better, just realize that on the continuum of "bad things currently happening in the world", a hobo being stabbed to death doesn't really rank (http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/04/19/why_can_t_anyone_stop_the_lra).

It is really tragic though....I wonder, if he had driven the assailant away, if the woman would have been kind to him, or would have shewed him away?

Idealist -- the glass should be full
Optimist -- the glass is half full
pessimist -- the glass if half empty
super pessimist -- the glass has no bottom <-- me

[Rockbird]

Recently, a friend of mine told me the following story:

He and some others were staying at a third friends apartement when they heard screaming from the floor above (this was in the middle of the night). When this doesn't stop they go upstairs to check what's going on. They knock on the door and after a while a rather uset woman opens the door and says that it's fine, nothing's going on. They go back down, but soon the screaming starts up again so they call the police and go back up again, thinking that maybe the woman was forced to say things were okay or something. While they are knocking (rather loudly) at the door some of the neighbors on the same floor come out and actually tell them to stop making such a ruckus! Not the people screaming, the people knocking on the door! Shocked, they say something to the effect of "don't you hear that? We should call the police or something!".
The neighbors grunt something like "you do that" and go back in...

When the police finally turned up and sorted things out it turned out that the son of the screaming woman had returned home late and bloody, and she'd completely flipped from panic.

While this story doesn't say very good things about the neighbors, it does make me proud to be friends with these guys :smallwink:.