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View Full Version : [D&D 3.5] How does the Rapid Metamagic feat work with Arcane Spellsurge?



Tedesche
2010-04-25, 02:21 PM
For the sake of convenience, I'll provide the full text of the feat and the spell here:

Rapid Metamagic (Complete Mage, p. 46)
Prerequisites: Spellcraft 12 ranks, ability to spontaneously cast spells.
Benefit: When you apply a metamagic feat to a spontaneously cast spell, the spell takes only its normal casting time.
Normal: Spontaneous casters applying metamagic must either take a full-round action (if the spell normally requires a standard action or less) or add a full-round action to the casting time (if the spell takes 1 full round or longer to cast).

Arcane Spellsurge (Dragon Magic, p. 64)
Universal
Level: Sorcerer/wizard 7, wu jen 7 (all)
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 round/level

This spell speeds the flow of magic through you, hastening your spellcasting ability. Casting times for arcane spells are reduced as follows:


Normal > New Casting Time
1 standard action > 1 swift action
1 full round > 1 standard action
2-10 rounds > 1 round less than normal

Arcane Spellsurge has no effect on any spell with a casting time longer than 1 minute or a casting time not listed on the table.

You can't choose to ignore this effect; that is, you can't opt to cast a spell using its normal casting time. Thus, if all your spells normally have casting times of 1 standard action, they take 1 swift action instead, and because you can't take more than one swift action in a round, you won't be able to cast multiple spells per round while under the effect of arcane spellsurge. (If you have available spells with casting times of 1 full round, you are still able to cast more than one of those spells per round.) However, a sorcerer or other spontaneous caster could cast a metamagic spells (as a standard action) and a normal spell (as a swift action) in the same round.

This spell doesn't stack with any other effect that reduces a spell's casting time.

Special: If you are of the dragonblood subtype, you can cast this spell as a swift action.

So, how does this work? Does Rapid Metamagic make is so that a sorcerer can't utilize the 2-spell-per-round casting technique the spell implies it can, because he no longer takes extra time to cast metamagic spells? Or does the line about Arcane Spellsurge not stacking with other effects that reduce casting time mean that it does reduce the casting time of normal spells, but does not further reduce the casting time of metamagic spells—meaning that a sorcerer with this feat could still cast two spells per round (so long as one of them is enhanced with metamagic)? I'm sure there are other interpretations as well, but those seem to be the most obvious to me. Thing is, the first makes the spell/feat combo relatively useless, while the other makes it a godsend, and a must-have for any combat sorcerer.

And before people cite it, I am well aware of the Metamagic Specialist alternative class feature detailed in the Player's Handbook II. While that would get around the problem by making a reduction in casting time for metamagic spells optional, it also limits the number of times per day that you can use the ability (3 + Int modifier). With most sorcerers having low Int modifiers, they'll likely only get 3-5 uses per day, and that's a little lackluster when the spell lasts 1 round/level. Enough for a single encounter maybe, but I'm interested in going further. :smallamused:

Anyway, does anyone know how this feat/spell combo should work?

Ernir
2010-04-25, 02:44 PM
I'd go with the first interpretation, making the combo bad.

Reason? Rapid Metamagic is not reducing the spell's casting time, it is preventing an increase in casting time, making Arcane Spellsurge's line about not stacking with effects that reduce casting time not apply.

Myou
2010-04-25, 02:57 PM
I'd go with the first interpretation, making the combo bad.

Reason? Rapid Metamagic is not reducing the spell's casting time, it is preventing an increase in casting time, making Arcane Spellsurge's line about not stacking with effects that reduce casting time not apply.

That is indeed how it works.

Tedesche
2010-04-25, 03:19 PM
Preventing an increase in casting time and reducing it when it would otherwise be increased seem like two different ways of saying the same thing to me. I suppose it depends on how you interpret the text, but this is precisely why I asked for opinions on the matter.

Also, Myou, you sound pretty sure. Is there a supporting citation you can give me?

Anyway, thanks for the replies.