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da red fox
2010-04-25, 04:01 PM
Since i have never made a cleric before, i have decided to try making a DMM: Persist style cleric.

i need suggestions/obvious answers on 4 points:

1. Ways to max out turn undead attempts/day
2. Awesome spells to persist
3. Items that a cleric should have
4. Any other cleric building tips

allowed sources: Core, Complete Series (Minus Champion, unfortunately), Spell Compendium, Magic Item Compendium.

I am looking for Optimization, not over-the-top cheese, but all suggestions are welcome.

Thanks,

~Fox

Myou
2010-04-25, 04:08 PM
1. High charisma, the Extra Turning feat, domains that grant Extra Turning as thier power, and the old standby of as many Nightsticks as you can carry, if your DM will allow them.
2. Divine Power, Divine Might, but others will give a fuller list than me.
3. Beads of Karma jump to mind.
4. Take a PrC as soo as possible? xD

da red fox
2010-04-25, 04:10 PM
If its not too much trouble, could you provide the sources for nightsticks and beads of karma? i know i have read about them before, but cant recall what book...

Prodan
2010-04-25, 04:11 PM
The Bead of Karma is a core item.

Pluto
2010-04-25, 04:13 PM
^Check the strand of prayer beads.

Myou
2010-04-25, 04:15 PM
If its not too much trouble, could you provide the sources for nightsticks and beads of karma? i know i have read about them before, but cant recall what book...

Nightsticks are in Libris Mortis.

aivanther
2010-04-25, 04:20 PM
Frankly, any DM who lets his cleric's get DMM and a nightstick deserve to have his campaign broken.

Depending upon the DM, you may be able to get greater turns able to be used up for DMM, and if so try Radiant Servant of Pelor for more bonus greater turns to burn on your DMM.

da red fox
2010-04-25, 04:31 PM
To clarify, this is just an exercise, not a character that will actually be played.
Thanks for all the suggestions!

Optimator
2010-04-25, 05:07 PM
1. Ways to max out turn undead attempts/day
2. Awesome spells to persist
3. Items that a cleric should have
4. Any other cleric building tips


Well, for #4 I'd recommend not fretting too much. You're a Cleric so you'll be fine pretty much no matter what :smallwink:

Eldariel
2010-04-25, 05:21 PM
Planning and Undeath are the two classic DMM Cleric's domains. Vecna grants 'em both IIRC. Planning has Extend Spell as bonus feat and Undeath has Extra Turning. Then you just take Persistent Spell & DMM: Persistent Spell as your level 1 feats (Human, etc.) and Persist your first spell given at least 10 Cha.

If you have Flaws, two more Extra Turnings get you an extra Persistent Spell. Then level 3 with 14 Cha for one more, then again level 9 and so on. At that point, you can utilize Extend Spell in conjuction with Persistent Spell to get 48 hour spells out of all but level 4 ones.

Also, Reliquary Holy Symbol [MiC] and Nightstick [Libris Mortis] offer easy options for extra turnings; I as a DM rule you can only empower divine feats with your inherent Turn Undead-uses (but Cha-boosters still work) and that only Turn Undead works; makes things a bit easier, but DMM no less broken.


Anyways, for spells, consider e.g. (this assumes vanilla, that is, spells that can be persisted by the strict reading of Persistent Spell; no Touch-spells for example):
Divine Favor
Blessed Aim [SC]
Conviction (or Mass) [SC]
Recitation (or Mass) [SC]
Mass Lesser Vigor [SC]
Divine Power
Righteous Might
Surge of Fortune [CC]
Eyes of the Oracle [DrM]
Holy Star [SC]
Giant Size (Miracled) [SC]
Bite of the Werebear (Miracled) [SC]
Shapechange
Draconic Polymorph (Miracled/Greater Anyspelled) [Drac]
Righteous Wrath of the Faithful [SC]
Divine Insight (Miracled) [SC]
Consumptive Field (or Greater) [SC]
Favor of the Martyr (Miracled) [SC]

Just as a few decent examples, doing different things. If you add e.g. Ocular Spell [LoM] and Reach Spell [CD], you can pretty much persist anything leading to even more stupid stuff.

Also, two handy invulnerability comboes off the top of my head:
Favor of the Martyr + Any Source Of Regeneration (+ Energy Immunity as appropriate) such as Trollform [PHBII], Shapechange or similar.
Delay Death + Beastland Ferocity (need tricks to persist due to range tho)

Also note that most spells from SC exist in Completes too in case access is an issue.