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Zergrusheddie
2010-04-25, 05:31 PM
What are some decent archer type of builds that don't involve taking a hour to resolve attacks and doesn't only end up being decent at level 20? Swift Archers would be ok, however precision immune monsters abound and there is not always room to move to get max damage.

Best of luck.
-Eddie

Keld Denar
2010-04-25, 05:35 PM
Harmonious Knight Pally2/Sorcerer6/ArcaneArcher2/SublimeChord2/AbjChamp4/SacEx4

This build is pretty decent. Lots of Cha synergy, very limited Bardic Music, Imbue Arrow, which allows you to put your high level spells into arrows and shoot them. Try it with things like Fogs, which are mostly short range, or with Antimagic Field to neuter an enemy caster.

Eldariel
2010-04-25, 05:41 PM
What are some decent archer type of builds that don't involve taking a hour to resolve attacks and doesn't only end up being decent at level 20? Swift Archers would be ok, however precision immune monsters abound and there is not always room to move to get max damage.

Best of luck.
-Eddie

Swift Hunter gets Skirmish on Prec Immune FEs so just get few generic FEs of the types normally immune and profit.

But for a nonmagical high range archer, I really love Ranger 2/Fighter 1/Barbarian 1/Warblade 6/Eternal Blade 10; sure, attacks have lots of To Hits on higher levels, but he does have respectable damage output and accuracy throughout the levels along with some versatility and handy abilities.

As good as a martial archer can be on low levels and gets those nice extra attacks and sources of damage as you go up.


Of course, any Cleric/Archivist/Wizard/whatever-base Archer tends to function well and Soulbows are archers after a fashion.

PinkysBrain
2010-04-25, 05:50 PM
Anything which can cast ranger spells, especially at full caster level.

Hunter's Mercy, Find the Gap, Arrow Storm, Hunter's Eye ... nothing quite compares.

RagnaroksChosen
2010-04-25, 06:02 PM
I'm big fan of psionic archers.

psiwarrior 20 can be a pretty decent option, or even psion 20 depending on how much casterishness you wanted.

psionic shot,
plus offensive presence, vampiric blade, dissolving weapon, plus there is a number of utility buffs out there for them... works out pritty nice.

I've also played a wilder archer that worked out pritty well.

Zergrusheddie
2010-04-25, 06:23 PM
I never really understood the power in the Eternal Blade Archer. Aren't most Maneuvers melee oriented anyway?

Keld Denar
2010-04-25, 06:32 PM
A few of them work. Xing Mongoose, Time Stands Still, Quicksilver Motion, and most of the counters work really well. Heck, you could even Insightful Strike someone with your bow, if you had to.

Swok
2010-04-25, 06:33 PM
I really get the feeling that Eternal blade is mostly for the amazing win that is Island in Time

Zergrusheddie
2010-04-25, 06:39 PM
I really get the feeling that Eternal blade is mostly for the amazing win that is Island in Time

But that's at level 20. At level 20, the Barbarian is doing a thousand damage a round and the Wizard is already in control of the universe in a way that would make Tippy proud.

Toliudar
2010-04-25, 06:42 PM
Warmage 5/Rainbow Servant 10/PrC of your choice is still good at 20. Until 15, it's a basic glass cannon (ie archer) build, then gets very, very good.

Eldariel
2010-04-25, 06:55 PM
I never really understood the power in the Eternal Blade Archer. Aren't most Maneuvers melee oriented anyway?

Dancing Mongoose and Raging Mongoose are not. Neither is Time Stands Still. You get formers with items and latter as a maneuver, from 11 onwards. Also, stuff like Sudden Leap, Moment of Alacrity, Quicksilver Motion, WRT and IHS may not improve your archery directly, but they sure help with the overall package. And of course, Blood in the Water, Hearing the Air, Stance of Alacrity and company are good as ever, as is e.g. Wall of Blades (get an Elvencraft Bow so it can be used for that) and Save-counters and so on.

Also, Eternal Blade itself is amazing for Archer; Eternal Training is Int To Hit & Damage for encounter (or extra Time Stands Still or whatever melee maneuver you happen to want, or even DS if you happen to take some), Eternal Knowledge empowers Knowledge Devotion to a reasonable point without eating a single skill point and Defensive Insight makes you quite hard to hit if desired, while not eating into your full attacks (also if you suspect someone, you can keep Defensive Insight on out-of-combat and benefit in case of a surprise attack from that party thanks to UC Dodge allowing you to keep Dodge to AC when flat-footed). Oh, and the ability to penetrate any DR, the bane of archery, with a swift action as a bonus.

Really, Island in Time is merely the crown jewel; Eternal Blade is great all the way and doesn't hurt you start to get the extra attack mojo from 11 onwards with handy avoidance, defensive and ally buff maneuvers from the very beginning along with Fighter feat access and, good skills and fine damage. But turn once per ENCOUNTER as an immediate action is just nuts. Some serious action economy rapage with Moment of Alacrity + Island in Time + White Raven Tactics + Quicksilver Motion + etc. Combine with Legacy-weapon granting Cunning and Moment of Prescience to taste.


Eternal Blade is still only a martial type on level 20, but at least he's a martial type who doesn't have trouble with miss chances or AC due to the sheer volume of the offense, and one that's equally capable of landing thousands of points of damage if he so desires with at least one trick capable of somewhat surprising casters in once/encounter immediate action turn.

No, he's no caster, but he's pretty good for a noncaster at that point. Of course, that's still pretty close to nothing compared to casters, but he'll perform as well as you could expect from a martial Level 20. 1000 damage is no problem, and couple of hundred in melee from couple of hundred feet is equally easily done (though not against as high ACs). And the defenses are solid.

Amphetryon
2010-04-25, 07:13 PM
Soulknife 3/Ranger 2/Illumine Soul 3/Soulbow 7/Cleric 5 (not in order).

Probably order it as Ranger 1/Soulknife 2/Ranger 2/Cleric 3/Soulknife 3/Cleric 4-5/Soulbow 7/Illumine Soul 3. That way you're minimizing any multiclass penalties if your DM rolls that way, and it's a straightforward progression to show the One Behind the Screen.

elonin
2010-04-25, 07:19 PM
I wouldn't count out scout's skirmish ability. Weapon crystals give the ability to bypass two of the most common monster types that deny precision damage.

Eldariel
2010-04-25, 07:28 PM
I wouldn't count out scout's skirmish ability. Weapon crystals give the ability to bypass two of the most common monster types that deny precision damage.

Only for SA by RAW, but as said, Swift Hunter SPECIFICALLY, and this is the reason it's suggested in the first place, is able to overcome FE immunity so just pick your FEs well. Stalker of Kharesh for FE: Evil and Ele+Ooze+Plant+Construct should about cover it.

Dragon Devotee to finish it off with faster Skirmish damage prog for 7d6 normal (9d6 Improved), Ranged Skirmisher for 60' Skirmish and yeah, you're good to go (as long as you have Greater Manyshot, Travel Devotion or 10'-20' steps anyways) - as good as you're gonna get without spells anyways.

Sniper's Shot, Hunter's Eye, mentioned Weapon Crystals (Truedeath and Demolition specifically), etc. make magical SAer much better tho. Overcomes precision limits you can't without magic. Range, most notably (though indoors, 60' is plenty, but moving 20' away may be hard on the other hand). Telling Blow is the only feat to overcome precision issues at range with and it's not nearly good enough (not reliable enough to focus on or even take) for bows especially without any real means to increase crit range.

Mushroom Ninja
2010-04-25, 07:30 PM
I wouldn't count out scout's skirmish ability. Weapon crystals give the ability to bypass two of the most common monster types that deny precision damage.

However, if you're a scout/ranger with swift hunter, you don't have to worry as much since you get skirmish damage through to favored enemies regardless of crit-immunity.

Edit: Majorly ninja'd