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Noedig
2010-04-25, 08:56 PM
So I want to build a character whose, "thing", if you will, is making golems, effigies, and homunculi.

Several questions as to how I do this:

Race? (partial to warforged, but willing to pick otherwise)
What base class should I start with?
What feats should I be taking?
PrCs?
Spells?
Builds?
Other Suggestions?

Flickerdart
2010-04-25, 08:58 PM
There is an Effigy Master prestige class in Complete Arcane that should do nicely.

Eldariel
2010-04-25, 08:59 PM
Warforged Artificer with Tools of War, the first racial sub, Craft Construct, Artisan-feats and yeah, normal Artificer-stuff. Really, really self-building character. Artificer 20 is about as good as it gets.

DementedFellow
2010-04-25, 09:00 PM
I don't see why straight artificer wouldn't work. Yeah, it's a dull answer, but artificers can do almost anything. And they don't have to worry about not knowing x spell. They fake it. :)

The Shadowmind
2010-04-25, 09:02 PM
Warlock can work as well, but you have to put more effort into it to get the craft feats, and they are useless till level 12.

Eldariel
2010-04-25, 09:05 PM
Warforged Artificer level 4 sub halves the XP costs for creating constructs (including craft reserve use). That's an incomparable benefit and as such, you should go that way.

Akal Saris
2010-04-25, 09:12 PM
Here's a terrific thread full of constructs that you can build:
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=177.0

My favorites are easily the Helmed Horror and Battle Horror. Mobile, customizable, cheap, and terrific tanks.

Edit: Also, the warforged 4 substitution level doesn't half experience costs, it doubles the benefit of the craft reserve when used for constructs, armor, and weapons. So if you spend 20 craft points, they count as 40 experience. If a construct required 200 experience, you'd still need to supply another 160 experience of your own.

And while we're at it, the 1st and 4th substitution levels are a no-brainer, but the 5th level looks like a trap to me.

Noedig
2010-04-25, 09:24 PM
Thanks for the quick replies. I've been told by my GM that he will be accepting most if not all 3.5 books for feats and spells.
I found a feat in Magic of Faerun IIRC (AFB) called Magical artisan. The skinny is that you multiply the costs of your chosen item creation feat by .75 or 75%.

Is that a trap? cause if it takes 100 whatever and makes it 75 that sounds like a good deal.

Eldariel
2010-04-25, 09:34 PM
Books you need to look at:
Eberron Campaign Settings
Races of Eberron
Monster Manual

Eberron Campaign Settings contains:
- Artificer base class itself (automatic Craft-feat access, all Craft-skills [needed to make Golems] in class, etc.)
- Warforged
- Extraordinary Artisan (75% gold costs on items)
- Legendary Artisan (75% XP costs on items)
- Exceptional Artisan (75% times on items; of questionable value but if you focus on making Golems, pick it anyways)
- Various Homunculi including the all-important Dedicated Wright that can craft you stuff in e.g. Portable Hole while you adventure.

Races of Eberron has:
- Warforged Substitution-levels for Artificers. 1st loses nothing and basically gains CL buffs to self-buffing. Fourth loses Craft Homunculus (but it's included in Craft Construct which you will pick as a bonus feat on level 4 due to your character concept anyways so you lose nothing) and gains the mentioned ½ XP costs on all constructs and such.

Monster Manual has:
- Craft Construct: Obvious


If you can stack Magical Artisan with the Eberron-feats, you should but sensibly it wouldn't and as such, you should just pick Extraordinary, Legendary and maybe Exceptional Artisans. And yes, cost reductions are musts to make this viable.

Also, Artificer doesn't really want Effigy Master since he'll do better without the CL-loss crafting-wise and gets tough enough Constructs to not need the minor bonuses Effigies receive.

DaTedinator
2010-04-25, 10:09 PM
Depending on how cheesy you want to get, Magical Artisan only specifies that you specify an Item Creation feat. The Legendary/Extraordinary/Exceptional Artisan feats are Item Creation feats. :smallwink: It's cheese to the max, and no sane DM would allow it, but it's pretty plainly RAW-legal. Eladriel might have been telling you about this, but I figured I'd state in plainer terms.

Otherwise, just standard Artificer stuff. Keep in mind Eladriel's note on the portable hole and Dedicated Wright. As soon as you get access to 3rd level infusions and Persistent Spell, grab a couple strategic Eternal Wands and keep the right spells persistent on yourself.

Don't forget about equipping your constructs. Not always the most optimal choice - obviously better if you're going for fewer, more powerful constructs than many, weaker, which you should - but the right amulet to beef up a construct's strong points or minimize weaknesses can really turn a good construct into a fantastic one.

Also, don't fall into the trap that is homunculi. Are they nice? Yes. Are they the best option? Not usually. At low levels, sure, whatevs, but the higher you get and the more constructs you're capable of building, the less attractive they get.

Fizban
2010-04-25, 10:50 PM
For what it's worth, I've done a little research previously, and figured out that it usually takes about 1/4-1/3 your WBL at a given level to craft a construct at the same CR you're supposed to be (as in, one that doesn't suck). That comes out to about the last 2 levels worth of gold. So if you save all your gold, you should be able to build a new level appropriate construct every other level. Buildable constructs have a market price, so you should be able to sell them for 1/2 market price when they become obsolete (you just order them to obey the other guy indefinitely).

Don't forget that while Artificer has plenty of construct-centered buffs, you can use normal buffs on most of them just fine. Stuff like Haste and Bull's Strength and all that work just as well on your constructs as the rest of the party. I'd also either get barding for them or at least cast a Mage Armor every day, the extra +4 or more AC is great since they usually have a ton of natural armor to make up for not wearing normal armor... except they still stack.

The most annoying thing is that most constructs require a ridiculous caster level to create: by the time you can build it, the construct is past being obsolete. Don't really know what to do about that. The nice thing about Effigies is that they don't really have any prerequisites.

The Shadowmind
2010-04-25, 11:25 PM
Spider Thief can be a nice little intelligent construct, if you get the fluff based stuff about how it only follows only Deliver and Fetch commands. Really something smarter than your average Orc should be smarter then that. Coat it in poison. Get it to ride a decent combat mount into battle for you. Steal the enemy wizard's spell component pouch. Slight of hands the rogue's pants.

TheMadLinguist
2010-04-25, 11:51 PM
Build a calzone golem. this is the only option.

Eldariel
2010-04-26, 10:41 AM
The most annoying thing is that most constructs require a ridiculous caster level to create: by the time you can build it, the construct is past being obsolete. Don't really know what to do about that. The nice thing about Effigies is that they don't really have any prerequisites.

Few constructs have default Advanced HD versions with the same requirements (Greater Stone Golem, for example) and those are quite usable. Also, it's worth noting that the Artificers +2 CL for purposes of crafting stuff is quite helpful with regards to Golem-crafting.

As some spells are quite hard to emulate, it's worthwhile to also pimp your UMD with e.g. Item Familiar (which gives you sick UMD).

Vizzerdrix
2010-04-26, 10:51 AM
The Techsmith grants you a free construct buddy that you get to customize each level over 10 levels. Faiths and Pantheons has it. Between that, and Effigy Master you should be all set.

kme
2010-04-26, 11:23 AM
There is also the golem manual (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#golemManual), which makes taking feats and revolving your build around golems somewhat pointless.

Cogidubnus
2010-04-26, 12:12 PM
This reminds me a lot of a discussion I had with a player when designing characters for my current campaign. She has the WoW d20 book, and after looking over it I ruled she could use it as a supplement (it's basically DnD with different names anyway). So she wanted to play a Tinker, and spent ages, well, tinkering, to get engineered armour.

Eldariel
2010-04-26, 01:51 PM
There is also the golem manual (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#golemManual), which makes taking feats and revolving your build around golems somewhat pointless.

Except it's still cheaper for an Artificer to make them. And you get better stuff when crafting it all.

QuantumSteve
2010-04-26, 02:06 PM
Your only real choices are Artificer or Effigy Master. Golems are so damn expensive, only an Artificer can really afford to build them and not spend all their money/months on end building it. Effigies are less expensive, but not as good, so you need the boost from Effigy Master.