3.5 Psychic Ranger Class Feature (Help me please!)

[TabletopNuke]

Some time back I created a "psychic hunter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134587)" class, a psychic variant of the ranger. There was some complaint about having the same problem as the original ranger, lacking a real capstone ability.

I think I'd like to replace the favored enemy feature with something that increases throughout the progression, encouraging completion of the class, and ends with a decent capstone ability at level 20.

At the moment, I have no idea what that class feature should be. I'd love to hear what you guys think would be a fitting ability.

[Mongoose87]

How about a Favored Power, which has the equivalent Favored Enemy bonus as a reduced cost (minimum of one PP). For example, you manifest a 1st level power with a cost of one PP plus 4 PP augmenting. If it's a Favored Power, it would only cost 3 points to manifest.

[Temotei]

How about a Favored Power, which has the equivalent Favored Enemy bonus as a reduced cost (minimum of one PP). For example, you manifest a 1st level power with a cost of one PP plus 4 PP augmenting. If it's a Favored Power, it would only cost 3 points to manifest.

If you use that, make sure they have a minimum cost. You don't want someone abusing that and getting 0 PP powers...probably.

[TabletopNuke]

How about a Favored Power, which has the equivalent Favored Enemy bonus as a reduced cost (minimum of one PP). For example, you manifest a 1st level power with a cost of one PP plus 4 PP augmenting. If it's a Favored Power, it would only cost 3 points to manifest.
Hmm, that's actually a neat idea. The main problem I foresee for using it with this class is that the psychic ranger has abysmal manifesting ability (really only good for tiny buffs). I suppose that given their tiny power selection, they could wind up favoring a considerable portion of their powers known. This would enable them to manifest/augment far more often. Lets see if other people think that's a good idea, or not powerful enough.

[Mongoose87]

If you use that, make sure they have a minimum cost. You don't want someone abusing that and getting 0 PP powers...probably.

I said minimum cost of one. Honestly, though, the class gets 4th level power by 20th level - I don't think we need to worry about all that much abuse. Worst I could see is something like abuse of Psionic Lion's Charge, and that's not even that bad, by that level.

[Mulletmanalive]

That suggestion would also flatten nicely into 1 every even numbered level.

That said, i'd suggest something like the Terrain Adaption ability from UA and modifying that so that they can spend some time adapting to a new terrain by getting the "feel" for the place off psychic resonances.

The capstone would work nicely with that, giving them the ability to wrap said resonances arouns themselves like a cloak, basically granting them a cross between Hide in Plain Sight and Cloud Minds [hiding from all of the senses of those around you, not just vision].

Part of me just likes the idea of the foliage opening its eyes and moving at a sentry. Slit.

[Temotei]

I said minimum cost of one. Honestly, though, the class gets 4th level power by 20th level - I don't think we need to worry about all that much abuse. Worst I could see is something like abuse of Psionic Lion's Charge, and that's not even that bad, by that level.

Oops. I missed that. :smallamused:

[TabletopNuke]

I said minimum cost of one. Honestly, though, the class gets 4th level power by 20th level - I don't think we need to worry about all that much abuse. Worst I could see is something like abuse of Psionic Lion's Charge, and that's not even that bad, by that level.
What kind of capstone at level 20 would you suggest?

That suggestion would also flatten nicely into 1 every even numbered level.
Favored Enemy starts off at level 1. What would you suggest to make up for the gap in 1st level's power? What about a new favored power at each odd level? Then the capstone at level 20?

That said, i'd suggest something like the Terrain Adaption ability from UA and modifying that so that they can spend some time adapting to a new terrain by getting the "feel" for the place off psychic resonances.

The capstone would work nicely with that, giving them the ability to wrap said resonances arouns themselves like a cloak, basically granting them a cross between Hide in Plain Sight and Cloud Minds [hiding from all of the senses of those around you, not just vision].
If we added the ability to change one's favored terrain, how long would it take to do so? What kind of progression are you envisioning? What about replacing the additional favored terrain 5th or 10th level with ability to change favored terrains by spending time there? Then we could replace the additional favored terrain 20th level with the capstone.


Part of me just likes the idea of the foliage opening its eyes and moving at a sentry. Slit.Now I'm envisioning all those times Loony Toon characters hide in bushes to sneak up on people. Except it ends with broken/slit necks (I've been playing MGS3).

[Mulletmanalive]

The basic mechanic of favoured terrain was that you got bonuses basically identical to those of Favoured Enemy, though you got Hide, Move Silently and Spot instead of some of the more social tricks. Maybe climb... and you got a +1 bonus to attack rolls instead of +2 to damage.

I'd simply grant a +1 at every odd numbered level if you want it spread out or +2 bonuses at the normal places [same end result] and shorten the time required to attune at 5th, 10th, 15th. Maybe a week to start, then a day, then an hour and finally a minute of total concentration?

Mindreading seemed more of a rogue thing, being better at psionics seemed misplaced so i went with the "Sniffer" [watch Push, it's great] signature sensing.

The image i had for the capstone was from an X-files episode and featured two immortal guys with perfect cameoflage. Just a pair of white eyes lighting up behind Mulder and the realisation that that shape had been there all along. Soooo cool.

[Mongoose87]

What kind of capstone at level 20 would you suggest?

Yeah, I'm bad at capstones.

[TabletopNuke]

The basic mechanic of favoured terrain was that you got bonuses basically identical to those of Favoured Enemy, though you got Hide, Move Silently and Spot instead of some of the more social tricks. Maybe climb... and you got a +1 bonus to attack rolls instead of +2 to damage.

I'd simply grant a +1 at every odd numbered level if you want it spread out or +2 bonuses at the normal places [same end result] and shorten the time required to attune at 5th, 10th, 15th. Maybe a week to start, then a day, then an hour and finally a minute of total concentration?
Would the number of terrains favored at any given time increase at each level, like the original feature? Or would the extra increases and ability to change it (along with the capstone) replace this?


Mindreading seemed more of a rogue thing, being better at psionics seemed misplaced so i went with the "Sniffer" [watch Push, it's great] signature sensing.

The image i had for the capstone was from an X-files episode and featured two immortal guys with perfect cameoflage. Just a pair of white eyes lighting up behind Mulder and the realisation that that shape had been there all along. Soooo cool.

[never seen Push, no cable] Mechanically, what do you envision the capstone looking like?

[Mulletmanalive]

If you can adapt, there's no need for additional terrains unless you're planning the missions to be really short in a given location. To me, Ranger = longhaul but you may prefer the Aragorn, charging across the countryside.

So, no, unless you feel that it's necessary to actually have more terrain types on top of the ability to adapt to new ones. I don't, personally.


Pattern Twist [Ps]: Because of the shallow connection with Thoughspace possessed by all living beings, we're all sensitive to the psychic impressions on things, a 7th sense or so. The trouble is, these impressions are the one we tend to trust, all to readily.

When Hiding, the Ranger may elect to make a Concentration check in addition to the Hide check. If a creature attempts to detect the Ranger by any means other than visual, including Scent, Blindsense, Blindsight, Hearing, Echolocation or Tremorsense, they must make a successful Spot check against the rolled Concentration check or be unable to discern them.

Because of the Hide in Plain Sight ability, the Ranger can use this whenever he has even a slight hint of shadow nearby. Catch him if you can.

You could charge PP if you think it might be too powerful

[erikun]

I would suggest Psionic Sneak Attack (from the Lurk, applies when Psionically Focused rather than flanking) at 1st level and every five levels. It's not as good as the Rogue's sneak attack progression, but it seems to fit the "mental master survivalist" better than favored enemy. The only problem I see is that it would make some of the Psychic Combat Style rather redundant.

I would also recommend adding Psionic Fist line to the choices for Psychic Combat Style.

[Arbitrarious]

Didn't 4th Ed have a Hunter's Mark type mechanic for rangers? How about gaining a benefit to attack and damage against a single opponent each encounter and being unable to change it until the marked target died? Better yet at low levels you can't change it and at level 6-9 you can then select a new one if you old dies.

[Realms of Chaos]

Hmmm... here's what I'd do, personally.

I'd give the ranger some sort of ability that lets them expend psionic focus to bestow debilitating mental effects at 4th level and every 4 levels afterwards (daze, confusion, and so on with death at level 20) when you hit a favored foe. Perhaps name it Scorn Blast or something.

[TabletopNuke]

If you can adapt, there's no need for additional terrains unless you're planning the missions to be really short in a given location. To me, Ranger = longhaul but you may prefer the Aragorn, charging across the countryside.

So, no, unless you feel that it's necessary to actually have more terrain types on top of the ability to adapt to new ones. I don't, personally.

You could charge PP if you think it might be too powerful
With modern transportation, travel to a variety of different terrains is probably more common. I don't want to make a feature that a character will have to wait to use every time they travel. What about alternating increases in terrains favored with decreases in the time needed to acclimate to a new environment? On the other hand, I suppose at the earliest levels, a character probably won't be moving that much. By the time they reach level 5, it would only take a day. What do you think?

The fluff isn't quite right for pattern twist (but that's easy to change and no fault of yours). I'm not sure if it would need a PP cost or not. This is a melee-focused class at level 20. They're gonna be a little behind. Should they expend psionic focus to use it?

Making a Spot check to use echolocation sounds kinda messed up. There's a Lords of Madness feat that makes creatures undetectable through blindsight/blindsense, requiring normal Spot/Listen checks. The psychic hunter would have considerable Hide/Move Silently bonuses at this time. What about allowing them to expend their psionic focus to become invisible to blindsight/blindsense (and maybe double their favored terrain Hide/Move silently bonus)? This would last a number of rounds equal to class level.

I would suggest Psionic Sneak Attack (from the Lurk, applies when Psionically Focused rather than flanking) at 1st level and every five levels. It's not as good as the Rogue's sneak attack progression, but it seems to fit the "mental master survivalist" better than favored enemy. The only problem I see is that it would make some of the Psychic Combat Style rather redundant.

I would also recommend adding Psionic Fist line to the choices for Psychic Combat Style.I don't want to make the combat styles redundant.

I thought about adding Psionic fist, but I was worried that it would be rather ineffective, since it doesn't really have any kind of backup in unarmed combat (unarmed strike progression, ect). Any thoughts?

Didn't 4th Ed have a Hunter's Mark type mechanic for rangers? How about gaining a benefit to attack and damage against a single opponent each encounter and being unable to change it until the marked target died? Better yet at low levels you can't change it and at level 6-9 you can then select a new one if you old dies.
I don't remember much of what's in the 4E books. I sold those suckas almost immediately. (I do no not enjoy 4E)

I'm really starting to feel that Favored Enemy doesn't quite fit the flavor of this class.

I'd give the ranger some sort of ability that lets them expend psionic focus to bestow debilitating mental effects at 4th level and every 4 levels afterwards (daze, confusion, and so on with death at level 20) when you hit a favored foe. Perhaps name it Scorn Blast or something.
That sounds pretty neat, though it doesn't quite fit the flavor for this class. I'm thinking that the psychic hunter is less telepathy-focused than that. They mostly use their powers to augment physical abilities. I think could definitely be a neat feature for a wilder variant or something, though.

[TabletopNuke]

How does this look? I added the 20th-level capstone in. Should I make Suburban a separate environment? Should I add Search as one of the affected skills?

Terrain Adaptation (Su):

A psychic hunter's psionic control over their mind and body enables them to enhance their senses and stealth while in a familiar environment.

At 1st level, a psychic hunter selects an environment from among those given on the table below. Due to the psychic hunter's experience in that environment, he gains a +2 bonus on Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Spot, and Survival checks when using these skills in that environment. He gains the same bonus on Knowledge (nature) checks made in association with that environment (or on Knowledge (dungeoneering) or Knowledge (local) checks made in association with underground or urban environments respectively, if the psychic hunter has selected underground or urban as a favored environment).

At 5th level and every five levels thereafter (at 10th, 15th, and 20th level), the bonus increases by 2. For example, a 5th-level psychic hunter gets a +4 bonus on the appropriate skill checks. At 10th-level, this bonus increases to +6.

At 20th level, a psychic hunter can mask their presence even further while adapted to the current terrain. Creatures with blindsense, blindsight, scent, or tremorsense must make a Listen or Spot check (whichever DC is higher) to detect the psychic hunter. This ability can be combined with the hide in plain sight feature.

If a psychic hunter wishes to change their adapted environment to a different one, they must spend one full week in the new environment to adjust before the adaptation switches. At 5th level, the psychic hunter must only spend a day in the new environment to change their adaptation. At 10th level, the change only takes an hour. 15th level, the psychic hunter can adjust to the new environment after a minute.

If the psychic hunter chooses desert or forest, he must also choose a climate type, as indicated on the table (either "cold" or "temperate or warm" for desert, or "cold or temperate" or "warm" for forest).

Terrain Adaptation
{table=head]Environment|Example

Aquatic|sea, ocean (on or under water)

Desert, cold|tundra

Desert, temperate or warm|badlands, sandy desert

Forest, cold or temperate|forest

Forest warm|jungle

Hills|rugged terrain up to 2,000 feet elevation

Marsh|bog, moor, swamp

Mountain|rugged terrain above 2,000 feet elevation

Plains|farmland, grassland, steppe, prairie

Urban|City[/table]

[Mulletmanalive]

Suburban would logically be significantly more removed in nature than an Urban area in a Sci-fi setting, so it should be distinct.

Elite desert survivalist to realistic beer swilling soccer dad in less than a week!

[TabletopNuke]

Suburban would logically be significantly more removed in nature than an Urban area in a Sci-fi setting, so it should be distinct.
I was more thinking that suburban might be overshadowed by whatever environment was already present (rural hill-country treated as hills, greenbelt communities treated as forest, ect). Do you think I should make a note for that or still make it it's own terrain?

Elite desert survivalist to realistic beer swilling soccer dad in less than a week!
Best part of the class.


I would also recommend adding Psionic Fist line to the choices for Psychic Combat Style.
I thought about adding Psionic fist, but I'm worried that it would be rather ineffective, since it doesn't really have any kind of backup in unarmed combat (unarmed strike progression, ect). The other two combat styles would totally outclass it.

If I were to add a Psionic Fist combat style, I'd have to boost it so that it could hold it's own. Firstly, it would be virtually useless without Improved Unarmed strike, so I could add that to Psionic Fist as the first combat style feature. The other two would get one more feat along the same lines (Stunning Fist, Improved Grapple, Improved Natural Attack ?). Y/N?

[Mulletmanalive]

As these seem to be military guys in setting, it would make perfect sense to just hand them Improved Unarmed Strike at first level. Heck, you could just do that with most military types in general. Minimal gain.

I was thinking Suburban as I encountered it in the states: big areas with a lot of houses in unneccessarily large plots with no real conveniences in walking distance. What you just described is basically wilderness with houses in it but that was called "small town" in metro-Indiannapolis, even when it was part of the city limits...

EDIT: also, when I made the initial comment, i was thinking very much of the usual Sci-Fi habitation because of massive population thing or the dome building forests in Asimov

[TabletopNuke]

I'm now working on Origin Traits (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131739&page=15) for <i>Breakdown</i>. The Military background would provide Improved Unarmed Strike, among other benefits.

How does the Terrain Adaptation look?