The Western Gods

[Katana_Geldar]

So, I think it's time to bring this up again as we see this minister guy making burnt offerings to two idols we do not yet have names for.

Though we know that Rich has kept the Babylonian/Sumerian theme with this pantheon as started by the D&D Tiamat.

So, we have...

Tiamat
Marduk
Unnamed goddess with a crown who may also be in comic 718 (I am thinking it may be Astarte)
Horned and tailed god in comic 718 (Very likely it's Ba'al if it's not Marduk, and if it is Ba'al the goddess next to him with very likely be Ashereah)

Any more ideas?

[SPoD]

I always assumed that the goddess with the crown was Ishtar/Inanna, who seems to sort of be the same as the Astarte you mention according to Wikipedia. So yeah, I think it's just a matter of which name is applied.

As I just said on another thread, the male deity seems to have a lion's head and tail (compare it to the lion head of Trigak), wings, and possibly fire in his extended hand. Does that help anyone narrow it down?

[denthor]

So, I think it's time to bring this up again as we see this minister guy making burnt offerings to two idols we do not yet have names for.






Though we know that Rich has kept the Babylonian/Sumerian theme with this pantheon as started by the D&D Tiamat.

So, we have...

Tiamat
Marduk
Unnamed goddess with a crown who may also be in comic 718 (I am thinking it may be Astarte)
Horned and tailed god in comic 718 (Very likely it's Ba'al if it's not Marduk, and if it is Ba'al the goddess next to him with very likely be Ashereah)

Any more ideas?

Astarte also known as the queen of heavens maybe but she was not blood thirsty. She was more like the virgin Mary

Marduk who the ancients that lived in the land of Isreal before the Isrealites was a god whose arms were open wide and new born children were given over to his tender loving care by being tossed between his arms and fell to a burning death at the fire by his feet.

Ba'al who priest gave us the word cannibal.

The Giant is not that dark. My guess is that it is the God Tamuz which is the later name of Nimrod (whose name translated means--the hunter of man).

Be fun to watch and see what happens.

[Katana_Geldar]

Ba'al also took the form of a cow and was married to his mother, Asherah, the two were often worshipped as a pair. He was also called El, I believe and there was also some sort of relation to snakes that the two had.

It is possible that the girl in comic 218 is Asherah and the other goddess wth the crown in crayons of time is Ishtar or Astarte. As far as I am aware, Ishtar and Astarte are different versions of the same deity, the names even look like translations of each other.

And you need to think about what sort of accounts are made of these gods, particularly those in the Bible. Not to bring religion into this, but as a historcial text there's a bias against them that is understandable.

As for being dark, the babylonian Tiamat is nowhere near as dark as the dragon goddess.

[JonestheSpy]

Yeah, the goddess could be Ishtar/Astarte/whomever, but I'm not at all sure about the male figure. Looks vaguely fiendish, which would be appropriate of the Empire of Blood is the lawful evil most folks are assuming, but it's hard to tell.

[Katana_Geldar]

A lot of the gods in the Sumerian pantheon have a darker side, but then again do most deities.

[denthor]

Quote Katana_Geldar
Ba'al also took the form of a cow and was married to his mother

I did not know that about Ba'al Nimrod (the sun god) also married his mother(Istar the moon goddess) and she gave birth to Cupid(The child god of love--or the first (wait for it) Love child). :smallcool:

The bull story is how the Minotaur came in to being a King did not sacrifice the best bull in his herd and Posiden had his Queen wife fall madly in love with the living bull.

Katana thanks for adding to my knowledge of false gods.

[Katana_Geldar]

You just made such a mishmash of religion and mythology that you totally made my day. :smallbiggrin:

[Lappy9000]

I did not know that about Ba'al Nimrod (the sun god) also married his mother(Istar the moon goddess) and she gave birth to Cupid(The child god of love--or the first (wait for it) Love child). :smallcool:

The bull story is how the Minotaur came in to being a King did not sacrifice the best bull in his herd and Posiden had his Queen wife fall madly in love with the living bull.

Katana thanks for adding to my knowledge of false gods.That's at least, like, six kinds of awesome.

[denthor]

You just made such a mishmash of religion and mythology that you totally made my day. :smallbiggrin:

Anything to watch you face palm like your avatar.

[snikrept]

For an evil kingdom of lizardfolk I was mildly surprised not to see a representation of Tiamat herself on that altar. Interesting.

[SPoD]

For an evil kingdom of lizardfolk I was mildly surprised not to see a representation of Tiamat herself on that altar. Interesting.

Tiamat already has a place in the story. If that was Tiamat, we'd all be talking about V and the black dragons again.

Also, it's not a kingdom of lizardfolk, it's an integrated human-lizardfolk kingdom. They likely worship whatever god is appropriate to their goals, like war or conquest or what have you, rather than a racial deity.

[RMcMurtry]

For an evil kingdom of lizardfolk I was mildly surprised not to see a representation of Tiamat herself on that altar. Interesting.

Would almost have to kill V if Tiamat's faithful were important here.

[Katana_Geldar]

This place is not technically a kingdom either, as it's a group of disperate states that are always changing. Very likely, religion is one of the few unifying things.

[SPoD]

This place is not technically a kingdom either, as it's a group of disperate states that are always changing. Very likely, religion is one of the few unifying things.

The Empire of Blood is definitely a kingdom, no matter how briefly is has existed. But yes, I agree with your basic point: a common belief in all of the Western Gods would facilitate quick assimilation when one nation conquers another. The almost-total integration of lizardfolk and human populations is probably the result of so many successive governments breaking down any long-term cultural attachment that different groups might have to each other in favor of the State of the Month.

[Caelis]

Wouldn't you need like, a king, for a nation to be a kingdom? :smallwink:

[Nimrod's Son]

Wouldn't you need like, a king, for a nation to be a kingdom? :smallwink:
http://www.ecorazzi.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/prince-charles01.jpg
........../
I couldn't agree more, old chap.

[Corian]

A lion with wings... that can be the representation of Zu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zu_(god)). Added bonus: he's an antagonist to the gods, breathes fire, killed by Marduk, etc.
That does not help us with his consort, but it's something to go by.
Cheers

[Deliverance]

Marduk who the ancients that lived in the land of Isreal before the Isrealites was a god whose arms were open wide and new born children were given over to his tender loving care by being tossed between his arms and fell to a burning death at the fire by his feet.

...and we thank you.

That's about as accurate and complete as stating that "the Christian god used to be a tribal god until his adherents began practicing ritual cannibalism and they had to expand the membership of his church for practical reasons.".

[RMcMurtry]

If the Giant is using the old AD&D Babylonian gods, they're Anu, Anshar, Druaga, Girru, Ishtar, Marduk, Nergal, Ramman, and Tiamat. The Sumerians were Enlil, Enki, Inanna, Ki, Nanna-Sin, Nin-Hursag, and Utu.

[Corian]

Ah, thanks for that list! Nergal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nergal) rang a bell, and sure enough, he is usually lion-headed, related to the destructive power of the sun; hence an antagonist and fire connections again. Consort Laz, outside your list, but I doubt that's a big issue.
Edit: Ah, the entry does not mention wings, but they're standard issue in that pantheon ;)

[Corian]

P.P.S. The god depicted in crayons of time is very, very clearly Marduk. (I mean the D&D marduk, four eyes and all!) So I would bet strongly against the Sumerians showing up.

[RMcMurtry]

He could have mashed the pantheons together. Enlil/Anu and Inanna/Ishtar are the only ones who seem to have a conflict.

[Corian]

Fair enough, mashup could have happened.
So I looked up the Sumerian gods, just in case; none of them seems to have a good measure of the attributes we want for the idol (lion, fire, wings, enemy of the gods.) Of course, that does not mean Sumerians won't turn up; but I doubt any of them is Malack's idol.
Oh, and after my initial post, I also checked the other Babylonian gods; none of them seem to be a good match either. Druaga is god of the underworld, so has an evilish taint; but no fire connection. I do not remember what the D&D Girru was like, and it is not mentioned in Wikipedia, though it might just be a variant of Gerra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerra_(god)), indeed associated with fire, but a good metallurgist, not an evil lion. So until further evidence, I'm sticking with my identification of Nergal.
Cheers, and thanks again for the lists!

[The honest illusionist]

Katana thanks for adding to my knowledge of false gods.
If you've never seen one, if you're only taking scripture's word for it, how would you know the difference between false gods and real ones? :smallamused:

[SPoD]

I like the Nergal identification, too. Wikipedia says that Nergal had a wife, Ereshkegal, Queen of the Underworld, so that might be the consort. No info on her appearance, but that would fit with her fairly generic "goddess with crown" look. I mean, the Giant probably uses Wikipedia too, you know? :smallwink:

Also, please don't get this thread locked with real world religion issues, OK?