Martial Study and heroics

[Ranos]

Martial study gives you a discipline's key skill as a class skill. What happens if you gain martial study through the heroics spell, especially when it's persisted ?
At level up, can you still increase that key skill as a class skill ?
When losing the buff, what happens ?

[Boci]

You can only persist personal ranged spells. As for what ahppens when the buff ends, you will either half your ranks in that skill since it is no longer a class one, or be allowed to respend them depening on how nice/evil your DM is.

[marjan]

RAW (if you can persist it), you'll retain all ranks in the skill. What skill is class skill only matters when you're spending skill points.

[jiriku]

RAI suggests that when you assign skill points at level-up, you're retroactively assumed to have been practicing those skills while you were gaining the experience needed to level up. Thus, briefly gaining a skill as a class skill for half an hour on Tuesday morning isn't going to help.

Since temporary bonuses to Int don't grant skill points, even if they're maintained for an indefinite duration (see fox's cunning and headband of intellect), I'd say there's clear RAI to establish the principle that you cannot get permanent skill ranks (which is what you're after here) from temporary effects.

tl;dr If you want a permanent benefit, you need a permanent effect. Repeatedly renewing a temporary effect before it expires is not the same thing as making it permanent.

[Ranos]

Hm. So basically, RAW allows it (Well, whether or not touch is a fixed range is another topic of debate), but RAI has a strong precedent against it. Gotcha, thanks.

[marjan]

Repeatedly renewing a temporary effect before it expires is not the same thing as making it permanent.

It isn't the same, but it does have same effect.

[Doc Roc]

You can only persist personal ranged spells. As for what ahppens when the buff ends, you will either half your ranks in that skill since it is no longer a class one, or be allowed to respend them depening on how nice/evil your DM is.

Or fixed range spells.

What you want can be accomplished more elegantly by using psychic reformation and a single cast of heroics. This is pretty cool, thanks for bringing it to my attention.

Refresh my memory, what skills can you "get" this way?

[Jacob Orlove]

Refresh my memory, what skills can you "get" this way?
In alphabetical order by Discipline: Tumble, Intimidate, Concentration, Balance, Sense Motive, Hide, Balance (again), Jump, Diplomacy

[Ranos]

What you want can be accomplished more elegantly by using psychic reformation and a single cast of heroics.

Oh, you're right. That does make things a bit simpler, thanks.



Refresh my memory, what skills can you "get" this way?
Tumble, Intimidate, Concentration, Balance, Sense motive, Hide, Jump and Diplomacy.

Edit : Goddamit, ninja'd

[Doc Roc]

I seem to remember that some of those are starkly difficult to access.

Let me be the first to offer you an internet merit badge.

[Knaight]

Since temporary bonuses to Int don't grant skill points, even if they're maintained for an indefinite duration (see fox's cunning and headband of intellect), I'd say there's clear RAI to establish the principle that you cannot get permanent skill ranks (which is what you're after here) from temporary effects.

Actually they do. The DMG states not to allow such if the stat boosters have only been worn for part of a level.