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crazedloon
2010-04-28, 08:03 PM
As a DM I find that one of the worst abilities which kill basic horror is Darkvision. The old fallback of the unknown in the dark is a great way to make a little tension, but a simple dwarf is not afraid of dark when he can see in without any aid.

When darkvision is such a simple thing to obtain in game how can a DM (or have you as a DM) work around this to obtain some simple horror of the unknown.

Aron Times
2010-04-28, 08:08 PM
Horror stories are filled with monsters that humanity was not meant to see. What about describing squicktastic monsters like gibbering beasts or pseudonatural creatures to the only person capable of seeing them? It will freak him out, which will also freak out the rest of the party.

Zeta Kai
2010-04-28, 08:12 PM
1) House rule it to be low-light vision. The dwarf could use a minor nerf anyway.

2) Houserule that some places are suffused with a supernatural darkness, an Utterdark. If you don't like that name, try Umbral Darkness (the mundane absence of light being merely Penumbral Darkness).

3) Throw in monsters that want to stab out their eyes.

4) Apply sanity damage to creatures that see horrors, but only if they see them in bright or through darkvision. Shadowy illumination hides crucial details from harming their mind.

5) I could go on...

gdiddy
2010-04-28, 08:16 PM
Have skeletons pop out. Makes everything scarier.

Mushroom Ninja
2010-04-28, 08:22 PM
Use mist and fog liberally. Darkvision won't help against that.

WarKitty
2010-04-28, 08:26 PM
Mundane barriers could also work...you see what appears to be an old, rotten wooden door...there is a strange hissing coming from behind it as the door begins to shake...

Alternately, shapeshifting/chameleon/phasing monsters...the large rock leaning against the wall suddenly starts growing and developing tentacles...

Winter_Wolf
2010-04-28, 09:35 PM
Invisibility/Improved Invisibility
Ethereal
Causes blindness
Elder Horror that the mere sight of will drive you mad!
Fog
It looks just like everyone else....
Oh dear gods, it's a squirrel! Run for your ---*squklkle!*
Magical darkness
No line of sight


Probably a whole lot more. But seriously, there are just so many ways to mess with players in a horror game. Figment sounds could also work. Invisible, possibly sourceless/multiple sources, maybe it's just in the character's head.

Alternatively, get graphic. Like, too graphic. Describe the texture of the mucous dripping off the tentacles, or the manic gleam in the eyes and the too white, too perfect teeth when the unsub smiles.

Pretend to roll some dice, and just flat out decapitate the character who gets a good look. Tell the players that the character dies before he can divulge what he saw. It's kind of a jerk move, so I don't recommend this in a D&D game. Call of Cthulhu, maybe.

Thurbane
2010-04-28, 09:38 PM
Ring of the Darkhidden in the MIC is a relatively cheap item that renders the wearer invisible to darkvision. Not an ideal solution (i.e. you don't want hordes of enemies all wearing these rings), but might be nice for one or two specific BBEGs.

FoE
2010-04-28, 10:12 PM
Why is darkvision more of a problem than, say, torches? Or light spells?

The thing is, we're afraid of the dark because of the hazard it represents. You get immersed in darkness, it's easy to get lost. You could end up falling into a pit or tripping on to something sharp. And then there's all the nasty things out there that could sneak up on you and eat you when you can't see.

But players aren't experiencing true darkness. They can imagine it, but that's it. So employing "It is dark. You are likely to be eaten by a grue" is an unreliable device as horror gaming goes.

deuxhero
2010-04-28, 10:24 PM
I've never found darkness to add that much to horror, just eye strain.

You want enemies to pop up un scene, moan stuff like "run away!" or "SiLENCE the disCORD", make items, help and chance to rest rare.

Lysander
2010-04-28, 10:25 PM
Darkvision does have a range of 60ft. So say that all around them, about sixty feet away, they keep catching glimpses of things...things briefly dipping into their darkvision.

gdiddy
2010-04-28, 10:26 PM
When running horror, you should gather inspiration. Read some short, effective stuff that can get under anyone's skin:

http://creepypasta.tumblr.com/

Warning: Not for people that want to sleep. Also, scary pictures.

Winter_Wolf
2010-04-28, 11:51 PM
Hateful. I'm gonna be up now because my interest has been piqued. Though I admit to skipping several of the longer stories. The pics aren't really that bad, I've dreamed worse.

Good find.

gdiddy
2010-04-29, 12:04 AM
But yeah, any campaign where you can insert creepypasta? You win a little. (It also means your players will never sleep again.)

Brigham
2010-04-29, 12:25 AM
D&D horror can be tricky often due to an over mechanization of horror.

Good horror makes meek the strengths of a character. A character witnessing or experiencing a horror should not be capable of accurately describing or comprehending it. We don't fear the things we understand. In horror, the presumption to understand is deadly.

Is it a creature-horror? As an earlier example, the Dwarf alone sees some blasphemous (to borrow from Grandpappy Lovecraft) being off in the distance. The Dwarf's brain locks up/shuts down trying to comprehend this thing unlike any other creature or thing she's ever seen. The remaining party is unaware the terror, but attend to their comrade now paralyzed, eyes glazed and mouth gaping. Then, it strikes. Chaos. Confusion.

Make their strengths a crutch that you kick out from under them. Knowing is half the battle; in horror, it's the half you don't want to fight.

Asbestos
2010-04-29, 12:38 AM
Use mist and fog liberally. Darkvision won't help against that.

I like this idea best. Of course then someone will just pull Gust of Wind out of their butt.

Brigham
2010-04-29, 12:42 AM
I like this idea best. Of course then someone will just pull Gust of Wind out of their butt.

I agree (sort of), but with one addendum.

Your caveat reveals a key problem with adding horror elements to D&D. Horrific things don't play by the rules. That's what makes them horrifying.



say that all around them, about sixty feet away, they keep catching glimpses of things...things briefly dipping into their darkvision.

Lysander hits the nail on the head. Horror isn't about nerfing a characters ability. Horror is about using a characters assets against him, making him question its value to him.

BobVosh
2010-04-29, 12:59 AM
I like this idea best. Of course then someone will just pull Gust of Wind out of their butt.

My players never really do this. It made my darkness + invisible fog combo hilarious. True sight sees the fog, dark vision doesn't work on darkness.

The Tygre
2010-04-29, 01:13 AM
Four words:

Rats. In. The. Walls.

The template, the story, Z͖̟ͥͥ̏̿ͨ̓̒́a̵̤̭̣ḽ̪͚̠͓̳g̫̩͎̲͎̱̈̐o͚͊̓͌, man, whatever. And if they can see through the walls... they shouldn't like what they see.

TheYoungKing
2010-04-29, 02:27 AM
Ring of the Darkhidden, MIC

Darklight Lantern, Secrets of Sarlona

TheMadLinguist
2010-04-29, 04:41 AM
Horrific things don't play by the rules. That's what makes them horrifying.


Yeah, your magic circle spell doesn't work against this guy. His alignment is Chaotic Peppermint.


No, wait, I mixed up my Far Realms notes.

Hardcore
2010-04-29, 04:54 AM
Keep the players without Dark Vision in the dark(!).
Obviously only characters with dark vision see anything, and only their players would get info from you. Whenever they see something, write a note and give to them only. Make sanity rolls for them only if it is horrible etc.
This should make the other players more and more anxious:smallsmile:

golem1972
2010-04-29, 05:16 AM
In the Underdark, death is only 70 feet away.

Horror seems to work best when the characters are more - "ordinary joe" and less "god slayers".
I'm not saying horror can't be done in Epic, it's just tougher to pull off when the party wizard has miracle at will. Some other game systems seem to have an easier time dealing with horror.
An occasional feeling of helplessness does wonders. Making the players feel helpless all the time just makes them give up.

Done correctly, sometimes the player that gets to know what's going on really wishes they didn't.

Party was going through a big dungeon crawl at first / second level. Mostly natural caves + some worked areas.
Gestalt characters = endurance and confidence. Dwarf Crusader / Binder (savnok) is a serious tank (AC 24, high hp, infinite healing). The dwarf is leading the party through the darkness since everyone is out of spell slots and all equipment is soaked after the party got dumped into an underground river (no one thought to bring torches anyways :smallconfused: ).
They cross through several areas clutching onto each others belts.
They start crunching through undergrowth / roots which kinda freaks them out. The Dwarfs player calms everyone down. Explains what's going on.

Then they enter a room full of gnawed on bones. A huge pile of bones.

The dwarf, of course is the only one getting a description of what's going on. He just keeps telling the other players, "It's just branches, the room's full of branches," over and over. This kinda creeps out the rest of the players. There were a couple of scenes that messed with the dwarf, and he got really close to leaving the party in that room.

Sometimes, ignorance is bliss. Sometimes the wizard gets tired of stumbling around in the dark listening to whispers and risks setting off a Fiery Burst. There's just enough light to see hundreds of angry, light-sensitive, bone gnawing kobolds.

hamishspence
2010-04-29, 08:30 AM
Something that looks ugly isn't necessarily going to inspire much horror in D&D.

A lot of horror is things that happen, rather than what creatures look like.

As a rule, cannibalism in general and self-cannibalism in particular are pretty horrific. A villain who revenges himself on his enemies, by making them eat themselves, bit by bit, and regenerate, for a very long time, is pretty horrible.

Winter_Wolf
2010-04-29, 09:15 AM
I like this idea best. Of course then someone will just pull Gust of Wind out of their butt.

Secrets of magic revealed at last. Material component, one can of old beans. Coincidentally the same component as for Horrid Wilting.

Hey, you made my morning. How pathetic is that? :smallredface:

Zeta Kai
2010-04-29, 10:12 PM
Four words:

Rats. In. The. Walls.

The template, the story, Z͖̟ͥͥ̏̿ͨ̓̒́a̵̤̭̣ḽ̪͚̠͓̳g̫̩͎̲͎̱̈̐o͚͊̓͌, man, whatever. And if they can see through the walls... they shouldn't like what they see.

How did you spell Z͖̟ͥͥ̏̿ͨ̓̒́a̵̤̭̣ḽ̪͚̠͓̳g̫̩͎̲͎̱̈̐o͚͊̓͌,? That's freaky. :smalleek:

Prodan
2010-04-29, 10:15 PM
In the Underdark, death is only 70 feet away.

I see what you did there. (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5900318/5/The_Fountain_of_Unlikely_Chance)

Asbestos
2010-04-29, 10:21 PM
Secrets of magic revealed at last. Material component, one can of old beans. Coincidentally the same component as for Horrid Wilting.

Hey, you made my morning. How pathetic is that? :smallredface:
At least someone got the awful joke :smallbiggrin:

PhoenixRivers
2010-04-29, 10:24 PM
Sounds are a good substitute for sight. Skittering in the walls, screams in the distance, creaks of rusted metal swinging slightly in a faint breeze... Make it something they can hear, but not see...

Optimystik
2010-04-29, 10:28 PM
Something that looks ugly isn't necessarily going to inspire much horror in D&D.

A lot of horror is things that happen, rather than what creatures look like.

As a rule, cannibalism in general and self-cannibalism in particular are pretty horrific. A villain who revenges himself on his enemies, by making them eat themselves, bit by bit, and regenerate, for a very long time, is pretty horrible.

....Remind me to run screaming from your table :smalleek:

The Tygre
2010-04-29, 10:34 PM
How did you spell Z͖̟ͥͥ̏̿ͨ̓̒́a̵̤̭̣ḽ̪͚̠͓̳g̫̩͎̲͎̱̈̐o͚͊̓͌,? That's freaky. :smalleek:

Oh, it's just a matter of throwing your voice. By which I mean H̭̼̝̲ͬ̆͠E̴̯̎ͭ̎͂͛͌̐ ̟̮̑ͭ̄ͮ͟C͉̩̪̭̺ͣ͐̂̇̚O̭̩̻͙̻͚͐ͅM̤̣͔̭̏͑ͅE̠̞͍̰ͫ̇͜S̹̭̰̿̿͟ ̠̺ͅ there's a website (http://www.eeemo.net/). Don't use it too much, though. I̵̜̟̳̱͇̲͐͛ͦ̊̌̋̑I̡̠̩̩͇̅ ͉̬͎̟ͬ ͈̻̜͕̞ͭ͌Ćͤ̈́̉͐ͭ͏͉̙̫̪̥Aͦ̓͛͒ͪͥ͝N̺͆ ̐̏ͮ͂̏ͪͅS͕͉̲̳̟̣ͫ̅ͩ͆ͥ͂͠E̘̖̺̺̳̜͈̐̓ͩ͗̇̂Ë͙̜͔́ͧ̌̌̿̾͞ ͔̜ ͓̈́̌ͣ͘F̬̹̖͚̥͋ͪͤ͑̉ͫ̚Ȏ̎̀ͣͩ̑̚Ṟ͍̠̞̯̰̗͒ͪͤͥ̍E̵̙͓̘̯̜ͦV̫̄ Ê͕ͤ̇ͭͦ͡R̵͔̄̌t's kind of a **** move to assault any given forum with a wall of this stuff. Not to mention ̛̜̻̊T̮͓͓͕͛H͗͂͢E̼̗ͥ ͚̝̲̟̹͊ͤ́̉̔̅̆̕W͇̠̼͐̈́̌̍ͥẠ̱̣͚͗̆͗̓̿̀̀L̡̻̚Ḻ̮̯͉̭̤̉ͫͧ̎̊ ͕S ̧̻̼͎̪ͭͪ̉ͤͬ́ͅD̹͇̮͚̮̠̑͊Ḙ̰̺̎͗̍C̨̬ͦ́̅ͩͫA͓̙̭ͧ͆̔̅̑̒͞Yͯͫ ̼̣̯̤͆ͫ̃́̾͠ what it probably does to servers. Ugh. :smalleek:

The Cat Goddess
2010-04-29, 11:01 PM
Sounds are a good substitute for sight. Skittering in the walls, screams in the distance, creaks of rusted metal swinging slightly in a faint breeze... Make it something they can hear, but not see...

This is normally great... but, entirely by coincidence, I once created a Gnome Sorcerer with two flaws from Dragon Magazine. One was that random flashes of colour and light would appear close by... giving -2 (or -4, can't recall) to Hide & Spot. The other was that random noises would sound close by... giving -2 (or -4, again, can't recall) to Move Silently and Listen.

We went into a dungeon that was specifically creepy... there was a random table of things like "creepy sounds in the distance" and "flashes of light & motion out of the corner of your eye". Of course, my party was so used to my character's "Flaws" that 90% of the creepy setting was wasted. :smallbiggrin:

Icewraith
2010-04-29, 11:38 PM
Gaze attacks.

Nothing like the dwarf suddenly turning to stone, going insane, dying, or fleeing in terror to set your other players on edge.

Lysander
2010-04-30, 12:00 AM
I also suggest watching horror movies to get ideas. Interesting fact: horror movies almost never rely on putting their characters in the dark because logically the audience wouldn't be able to see either.

Often the monster sneaks up behind the protagonist. So instead of darkness you'd rely on movie silently/hide checks.

As a rule of thumb you should distinguish between "horror" and "terror/suspense." Terror is fear caused by not knowing what terrible thing will happen. Horror is revulsion and fear caused by knowledge of a terrible thing. So you should plan how to terrorize your players before they see the monster, and then think of how to keep them horrified once they see it. Those are actually two separate challenges entirely.

hamishspence
2010-04-30, 02:28 AM
....Remind me to run screaming from your table :smalleek:

Probably falls into excessive horror. Heroes of Horror does have similar things, but it stops short of people eating themselves.

Stephen King had a short story where the main character (a surgeon) is trapped on a desert island and starts eating bits of themselves to stave off hunger pangs.

In the children's novel Which Witch?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Which_Witch%3F

the most evil of the contestants, conjures up a swarm of giant rats, which eat each other until only one is left, then the last one eats itself, until nothing is left but a pair of jaws.

Tiktakkat
2010-04-30, 12:03 PM
I like this idea best. Of course then someone will just pull Gust of Wind out of their butt.

If you can deal with them getting a Will save, illusionary fog.
Actually, I prefer that as a player, in combination with a team that knows the wizard likes to throw it, so they always get the +4 to their saves.

hamishspence
2010-04-30, 02:43 PM
For horror, it may be best not to go into too much depth.

Sketch it out- and let the players' imaginations fill in the rest... :smallamused: