[4e]Breaking through... everything.

[Shnezz]

So, I'm rolling a Barbarian. Stats aren't bad. (We used 4d6, drop lowest.)

17 Str
15 Con
16 Dex
10 Int
14 Wis
12 Cha

I liked the idea of a "Hulk Smash" barbarian, so I dropped my int to 6, and my DM, taking pity, nudged my str to 18.

It's a goliath, so strength boost there... Joy.

I want to be able to do the Hulk/Juggernaut entrance through a wall, but I can't find anything about DCs to smash a wall.

I did the math, and I can put out 6d6(3W, using Maul)+5(str)+2(Goliath Greatweapon Prowess)+3(Power Attack)+5(If bloodied), all x2 with Stonebreaker Barbarian ability.

Minumim 32, Max 102. Think that should break a wall? :D

[Galdor Miriel]

You probably shouldn't be able to break through a wall with one swing at first level. But by level 10 you should be able to. Looks like a fun character concept!

[Shnezz]

Yeah. So... at level 5, I could break a wall on a crit at least? 102 dmg?
(Note: and the waste of a daily. Knock that down 1W if I use an at-will.)

Edited: Origionally said level 1... Heh. Heheh...

[Galdor Miriel]

If I was dming, I would let a crit break down a wall for a level 5 character, or three swings otherwise.

[Shnezz]

It's nice to know I have support, but can anyone cite a rule/DC related to the breaking of walls?

My DM likes hard proof from official sources. Otherwise, he homebrews in... relatively odd rules, and not in our favor.

[Oslecamo]

It's nice to know I have support, but can anyone cite a rule/DC related to the breaking of walls?

My DM likes hard proof from official sources. Otherwise, he homebrews in... relatively odd rules, and not in our favor.

I'm afraidn you're then playing on the wrong edition my friend. 4e assumes that all the world magically scales with your character.

The 4e DMG does give HP for doors, but they will scale with your character level, so by the time you can break a wooden door all doors will be iron, and by the time you can break the iron doors they're all adamantine and so on.

[Shnezz]

No. Nothing to do with doors. WALLS. Also, I doubt that the doors scale to have >100 hp at level 5.

:smallbiggrin:

Edit: Also, we're in a city under a mountain at the moment, so stone walls, but the area's we passed (And are going to return to, in all likelyhood) had wooden walls. People always ignore the walls. Easier to break a wooden wall than a steel door.

[Jokes]

There are DCs in the DMG for different types of walls. Easiest is a wooden wall, DC26 str check. The next 'easiest' is a 1ft thick stone masonry wall, DC35.

[Tiki Snakes]

Actually, I'd personally have a look at the strength-check to break doors bit of the compendium. And it shows that to bust down a normal door is a dc of 16.

To break down a stone or Iron door is a dc of 25.

There's also some stuff about level attached, (3 for wooden door, 18 for stone.) Don't have my DMG handy though, so I'd simply guess thats the kind of level a DM should use those doors, or rather what kind of level the PC should have a reasonable chance of doing it.

I'd say a stone door is a pretty good approximation for most walls, really. If we're talking brick-and-mortar it'd probably be easier, really.

Thickness is also a factor, but it's firmly in the DM's hands as to that kind of stuff, of course.

Basically though, you should have a nearly 50/50 chance of breaking through wooden walls / Dry walling etc at level 1, with no items or feats to help, and a 1 in 20 or so chance of busting through not-overly-thick stone walls, or reasonably solid brick walls.
[edit] Nevermind, found the wall breaking bit.

Bit tougher than I thought. A wooden wall DC is 26, and a masonry wall 35.
Still acheivable, at least wooden walls. Your options are to boost strength and take the items that help with strength checks OR possibly argue for allowing athletics to be used in it's place, possibly via taking a feat?

[Thajocoth]

There's numbers in the DMG for Str checks against walls. With 20 str at level 1, your str mod + 1/2 level is 5, so this check is 1d20+5

1 ft thick Masonry wall - DC 35
3 ft thick Hewn stone wall - DC 43
3 ft thick Natural stone wall - DC 43
6 in thick Wooden wall - DC 26

So a natural 20 can't get you through any of the walls in the DMG... But hey, you're level 1. Here are the numbers for breaking doors:

Wooden door - DC 16
Barred door - DC 20
Stone or Iron door - DC 25
Adamantine door - DC 29
Force portal - DC 38

Then, on page 65, is a chart for figuring out the hit points of stuff, for attacking your way through it. There's a table for size, and then a multiplier for material. A wooden door, for example, results in 5 AC & Reflex, 10 Fort, 20 HP.

I hope this helps.

[Oslecamo]

No. Nothing to do with doors. WALLS. Also, I doubt that the doors scale to have >100 hp at level 5.


Well I don't have the 4e DMG with me right now but if you have it go check it and look for the door's HP. If there are oficial walls stats, they'll surely be near the door stats.

EDIT:Ah there they are.

[Indon]

No. Nothing to do with doors. WALLS. Also, I doubt that the doors scale to have >100 hp at level 5.

:smallbiggrin:

Edit: Also, we're in a city under a mountain at the moment, so stone walls, but the area's we passed (And are going to return to, in all likelyhood) had wooden walls. People always ignore the walls. Easier to break a wooden wall than a steel door.

Using the 4E game's principles, the DM would be advised to just have you beating up on the wall that happens to have a door's stats, anyway, to keep you from being able to break the game via Kool-Aid Guy.

Still, such doors would be capable logically of taking six times your average at-will damage (the amount of HP of an average creature). It seems that you can deal that and then some with your door nova, so it looks like you're in a good position for taking out a wall in 1-2 actions, or with an action surge a single action.

[Shnezz]

Stuff.

Wow, lots of info at once, from many people. First: Thank you.

Secondly, I am level 5, I died and am re-rolling. Sorry if that wasn't clear. Otherwise... how could I have all those feats, eg: Power Attack, G Greatweapon Prowess, etc? :smallbiggrin:

Thirdly: Saving those DC's to my harddrive...

[Escheton]

ToB has (greater) mountain strike I think it's called.
It's a smash maneuver that deals extra damage and negates all dr and hardness...

[Shnezz]

ToB has (greater) mountain strike I think it's called.
It's a smash maneuver that deals extra damage and negates all dr and hardness...

Is that 4th Edition?

[Escheton]

ow, right, no, 3.x

[Shnezz]

Ah, okay. Well, thanks anyway. My dm SOMETIMES allows 3.5 things.

I'm still begging for a "Maul of the Titans".

Functions like a +3 maul... but with TRIPLE DAMAGE against inanimate objects. So, with that my min would be 96, my max would be 306.

hehehehehe :smallamused:

[Darakonis]

Let's just hope you don't hit any load-bearing walls...

Looks like you may be in for some very literal, "rocks fall, everyone dies."

Peace,
-Darakonis

[Shnezz]

A risk that a 6-int barbarian is willing to take, simply due to not understanding the math needed. :smallamused:

But, I was thinking more against exterior walls, for an unexpected entrance.

P.S. - My DM may not think of that. I hope. Must resist urge to break all four walls of a house, and see if he let's it stand. :smallbiggrin:

[Yakk]

Is breaking a wall an Athletics or Strength check? Probably strength.

[Indon]

Is breaking a wall an Athletics or Strength check? Probably strength.

All the times I've tried to break something, it's had HP.

But then, that was during combat. Things might be different during a skill encounter or the like.

[HenryHankovitch]

All the times I've tried to break something, it's had HP.

But then, that was during combat. Things might be different during a skill encounter or the like.
Well, in 3E they make an explicit distinction between breaking something with a single blow/flexion, versus destroying it through "attacks". The former is a pass/fail Strength test against a fixed DC; the equivalent of snapping ropes that someone has bound you with, or going all Kool-Aid-Man through a wall. The latter is attacks versus the object's AC/hardness/hit points. This represents someone slicing your bindings with a knife, or using a hammer or pickaxe on a solid wall.

I don't recall off the top of my head if 4E makes this distinction explicit or not.

[Fuzzie Fuzz]

4e does make a distinction. You can make a Strength check to knock down a wall (Varies from DC 26 to DC 43, depending on the type of wall) or deal damage with attacks (A wooden wall, for example, would probably be a Large or Huge object, so 40 or 100 HP. A stone wall would be double that. Iron or steel would triple it.).

See pages 64 and 65 in the DMG.

[Thajocoth]

Ah, okay. Well, thanks anyway. My dm SOMETIMES allows 3.5 things.

I'm still begging for a "Maul of the Titans".

Functions like a +3 maul... but with TRIPLE DAMAGE against inanimate objects. So, with that my min would be 96, my max would be 306.

hehehehehe :smallamused:

I think there's a Barbarian Utility for bonus damage to objects...

[Excession]

Yes.

Stonebreaker, Barbarian Utility 2.

Encounter power that gives you +5 to strength checks to break objects, and double damage vs. objects, until the end of your next turn.

[Inyssius Tor]

... which he already has, as mentioned in the OP.

[Asbestos]

4e does make a distinction. You can make a Strength check to knock down a wall (Varies from DC 26 to DC 43, depending on the type of wall) or deal damage with attacks (A wooden wall, for example, would probably be a Large or Huge object, so 40 or 100 HP. A stone wall would be double that. Iron or steel would triple it.).

See pages 64 and 65 in the DMG.

As a DM I interpret this as the attack 'just' punching a hole in the wall, but the STR check actually letting you knock it down/bust through. Otherwise you never have to make STR checks because by the time you can make a DC 43 check you've already been killing walls with damage.

[Tiki Snakes]

As a DM I interpret this as the attack 'just' punching a hole in the wall, but the STR check actually letting you knock it down/bust through. Otherwise you never have to make STR checks because by the time you can make a DC 43 check you've already been killing walls with damage.

Well, there's always the time thing. It'll usually take a round or two with your mordenkrad to make a door in that stone wall. But if you can hit the break DC, you just bust through it, juggernaut style.

To be fair though, I'd probably give out circumstancial bonuses to characters who feel like they should be able to bust through walls, or even just set my own DC's anyway.

[Androgeus]

What's the break DC of the forth wall?

[Siegel]

What's the break DC of the forth wall?

When you look at OotS it doesn't seem to be that high

[DragonBaneDM]

Oo! Battering Weapon!

[Shnezz]

Well, I think I'm going to need to start saving for str boosting items, unless I can do damage to get through in one swing. I really want to go through in one action, because then anyone else who ran through the hole after me gets a surprise round. (I would think, anyway, we only came in through a damn wall. )

[Galdor Miriel]

The whole point of the game is to make a big fantasy adventure. If you have a high level hero who is massively powerful, why not have him able to break through walls, it happens in books and movies. You and your dm just need to agree on a pass fail mechanic for it. If you have a weapon, such as an extra large sledge hammer, and are freakishly string, I would let you apply the proficiency bonus and enhancement bonus to a strength check. But that is because as a DM I like players to try crazy stuff, I think the DMs job is to find a mechanic to allow the crazy stuff a chance, but sometimes a very small chance.

I would propose a Strength check to burst through, he should set the s=dc in a reasonable way based on the numbers in the dmg. You get bonuses from

Strength items like gauntlets of ogre power.
Using a heavy blunt weapon to add verisimilitude
A successful knowledge dungeoneering check to find a weak spot for the maul to strike.
Enmhancement bonus of weapon.

So at 5th level you could have have
half level +2, str +7, gloves +2, prof +2 Enh +2, dung +2 = +17

If a 1 foot stone wall is dc 35 you have a pretty decent chance. And we used the games mechanics to get there.

I think it reasonable to add those bonuses as well, just as the same kind of bonus could be applied to a sword cutting through a rope bridge.

[Shnezz]

So at 5th level you could have have
half level +2, str +7, gloves +2, prof +2 Enh +2, dung +2 = +17



How the Fel could you have +7 Str bonus at level 5? Max. strength is 18, +2 racial, +1 when you increase from level. That's 21, for +5.

[Shnezz]

Woo! Just wanted to throw out a cheer. Juggernauted every wooden door in my first session with him (Fairly impressive with a DC 19, +5 strength and using my +5 Str to breaking things only once.)

Still searching for silliness that can help get through the walls.