Scion: American Civil War

[horus42]

So, while reading through the Scion Companion, I was thinking about running Scion games in various other periods throughout history (but without the inclusion of the whole "nationalistic pantheons" thing. I think of the gods as having been around since before the dawn of time, not created by human belief or folklore.)

And so I thought that the American Civil War would be a time period that my players would be interested in, but I think I need a little help.

The gods' involvement with the War started with the Loa. They decided that if one side advocated keeping their people as slaves, they were going to fight against them.

The Atzlanti came in next. They thought that breaking the United States would keep the US from interfering in Latin America, so they supported the Confederacy.

The Amatsukami got involved for a similar reason as the Atzlanti. They want to keep the US out of the Pacific, letting Japan remain the dominant power in that part of the world.

The Pesedjet are involved because they agree with the Loa, and don't like the concept of a country run by African slave labor. (The reason they're just getting involved is because they saw the US as a little upstart nation that wouldn't amount to anything, but have since reconsidered that position.)

I'm conflicted on where to put the Dodekatheon. It seems to me that about half would support the Union, but the rest would support the Confederacy, and for the sake of cleanliness, I don't want to split the pantheon. I also am having trouble with finding a reason for the Aesir to get involved at all.

What are the Playground's thoughts?

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

The Dodekatheon is always putting itself on opposite sides of an issue. Just read the Illiad. Splitting them up is perfectly fine: they sometimes seem to enjoy the rivalry.

That said, there's a Scion enhancement somewhere that includes folkloric gods like Johnny Appleseed, Lady Liberty, Uncle Sam, and the like...perhaps making some new Gods based around the concepts of the Civil War might give you something interesting to play with.

Just thoughts.

[horus42]

Put that way, splitting up the Dodekatheon does seem to make more sense. I might just leave the Aesir neutral, and have the two factions of the Dodekatheon fight on either side. Unless I, or someone else, comes up with a compelling reason for the Aesir to join.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

If you really want the Aesir in, you could say that the old rivalries between the Aesir and the Vanir (two pantheons who later merged into one: the Aesir) are once again emerging, and the two have taken sides on the Civil War to pit their Scions against each other. Hell...perhaps that's the REASON for the Civil War, and the other issues are merely the Scions covering it up.


Aesir: Baldur, Thor, Hel, Loki, Odin, Frigg, Tyr, Vidar

Vanir: Sif, Freyr, Freya, Heimdall

[horus42]

That's a really good idea. Gives me a lot more to think about, and many more ideas... :smallbiggrin:

[The Tygre]

Where would the Celts be in all this? I want to say Confederacy since there were still from folks from Ireland down in the Confederacy, and rural Appalachians still organized themselves into clans n' such.

India neutral. Same for the Celestial Bureaucracy, I'd imagine.

[awa]

im not familiar with the scion setting so if this is an else world type thing where history took a drastically diffrent course forgive me and ignore the following, but during the American civil war japan was nowhere near a major power all the Asian country's were being kicked around by Europe during that time period.

[wadledo]

Yea, the Asian pantheons wouldn't be a part of this at all. Chinese laborers weren't a comon place sight in the west until a few years after the end of the war, and the Japanese were stuck there for roughly another hundred.

[subject42]

It might be fun to say that the Aesir were "hostile neutral. If anything, it would be interesting to see them play both sides of the fence, with a slight favor towards whichever side was losing.

Imagine a mysterious one-eyed stranger offering up hordes of Einherjar mercenaries in an effort to tip the balance of the war just enough to keep things moving. The Norse pantheon loved war, and preparation for using "modern" methods at Ragnarok might be just enough motivation for them.

In addition, there were large German and Scandinavian enclaves in Pennsylvania and New England at the time of the Civil war, so large, beardy people speaking a germanic language wouldn't be too out of line.

[horus42]

For the most part, I'm pretty much keeping the pantheons not included in the core book out of it. The only ones my players ever use are the original six, so I'm just trying to keep it from getting overly complicated when I could just leave the Devas, the Tuatha, and the Celestial Bureaucracy out of it.

As for the Amatsukami... Yeah, Japan wasn't really a dominant power at the time, so I'm adjusting it slightly. This was well into Japan's isolationist period, so I'm going to say that they joined the war in order to keep Western culture exactly where it is. The west. They don't want the US's colonial/imperialistic tendencies to spread to Japan, and feel that breaking up the US is a good way to significantly slow that spread.

The war starts because not just one, but two pantheons decide to split. The Aesir and the Vanir break apart, and emboldened by this, half of the Dodekatheon (Athena, Hera, Hephaestus, Poseidon, Apollo, and Hades) secedes as well. The other pantheons join in the war for the previously stated reasons, and this splitting of the gods causes an upheaval in the mortal world, resulting in what we know as the American Civil War. (And I'll have the gods call it something else, like how they call WWII the Axis War.)

[wadledo]

...Actually, the native's gods most likely haven't been completely slaughtered yet, so you could just lightly refluff the Japanese pantheon to be the Native American pantheon.

[The Tygre]

For the most part, I'm pretty much keeping the pantheons not included in the core book out of it. The only ones my players ever use are the original six, so I'm just trying to keep it from getting overly complicated when I could just leave the Devas, the Tuatha, and the Celestial Bureaucracy out of it.

Aye, but Katie O'Hara, land is all that matters, because land endures, above all else...


As for the Amatsukami...

You could always say that the Amatsukami are fatebound to the place, or that their oracles are calling for heavy chance of 'Ohsnap' in a while. Because...um...well...there's this...*cough* um...place. Japan. Important. Big. Oh, cripes this is awkward to deliver...uh...science...bomb...place. Oak Ridge. Poison Sun...*cough*. Fate n' such...

[horus42]

Tygre, I like the way you think. If I was a god, I know that I'd want to put down any country that's Fated to use the world's most deadly weapon (twice...) on my people.

Also, I'm thinking of having the gods call the war "The War of Vanir Aggression", similar to how the Confederacy called it "The War of Northern Aggression." Thoughts on the name?

[Mando Knight]

I don't see why Poseidon or Hephaestus would join the South: the North had the advantages in Naval power and industry, which would both fall under their domains. Athena I could see going South, though, since most of the good generals were on that side.

[horus42]

I realized that I never really clarified on which Greeks went where. I'm using the idea that Zeus' child with Metis (his first wife) is the one who will overthrow him, not just any of his children. And the only child he had with her is Athena. Athena is leading the rebellion, but she and those with her sided with the North. Poseidon because the Union had naval superiority, Hephaestus because they had industrial superiority, Hades because he's actually a pretty decent guy if you ignore the Persephone thing, and he thinks Zeus is a jerkass. Hera is also in it because Zeus is a jerkass, and Apollo because he and Artemis are looking at it like a competition.

Zeus is hearkening back to his Roman days, with the attitude that only Citizens deserve rights, and since slaves are property, not Citizens, who cares? (hint: it's not Zeus...) Ares is with him because he just likes the bloodshed, and wants to heighten the conflict, Aphrodite is with him because Ares is, Artemis because of Apollo, and Dionysus and Hermes are pro-confederacy because they support the States-rights issues brought up by all this. The other gods, like Demeter and Hestia are remaining neutral at the time.

Kind of an overly long explanation, but there it is.

[Mando Knight]

and he thinks Zeus is a jerkass. Hera is also in it because Zeus is a jerkass

Zeus is a jerkass. That's just the way the Greek gods are.

[The Tygre]

I like the name. Kind of like how the Axis War was the Mundi Axis War. (Or whatever they're called...) You'd be surprised how much the Appalachias are connected to Japan when you get down to it.


Athena I could see going South, though, since most of the good generals were on that side.

No. First and foremost, there is no war, any war, in the entire history of mankind, which can be divided into 'good guys' and 'bad guys'. WWII Europe not withstanding. Human beings don't work that way. Period. At all. Ever. Second:

Sherman. March to the Sea.

If I have to explain any more to you, then you need to check up on history.

[horus42]

Zeus is a jerkass. That's just the way the Greek gods are.

Exactly. And these gods have had enough. Although, to be fair, a lot of them were jerkasses too. But we'll just say that... I dunno... They've changed over the years? Or they have some other scheme in mind and are just using Athena's rebellion as an excuse to put their plans into action. The latter's probably more likely.


No. First and foremost, there is no war, any war, in the entire history of mankind, which can be divided into 'good guys' and 'bad guys'. Not even WWII from certain perspectives. People don't work that way. Second:

Sherman. March to the Sea.

If I have to explain any more to you, then you need to check up on history.

I interpreted "good" as being "good at their job" not "morally good"

[Renegade Paladin]

Where would the Celts be in all this? I want to say Confederacy since there were still from folks from Ireland down in the Confederacy, and rural Appalachians still organized themselves into clans n' such.
And the rural Appalachians were overwhelmingly opposed to secession; West Virginia even succeeded in doing something about it. Meanwhile, there were entire Irish regiments raised for the United States in New England and New York.

[The Tygre]

And the rural Appalachians were overwhelmingly opposed to secession; West Virginia even succeeded in doing something about it. Meanwhile, there were entire Irish regiments raised for the United States in New England and New York.

Mmm, true true. Doesn't matter anyway as the OP won't be using the Celts. But they'd probably be divided; not just the Appalachians were Irish descended, after all. They kept moving south after that, to wherever they could get land.


I interpreted "good" as being "good at their job" not "morally good"

Right. Well... yeah, no, that makes more sense.

Politics aside, can we agree that any given war god like the Morrigan or Ares is going to have a field day here? The Civil War was one of the bloodiest and most violent wars in American history. Brutal war gods are probably going to stay neutral and put themselves on the front line, just to revel in the carnage.

[erikun]

Scion: Companion has the Irish pantheon, the Chinese pantheon, the Hindu pantheon, along with a Yankee, British, French, and Soviet pantheon. The last four are roughly set in the WWI/WWII era, but they build off old legends (Johnny Appleseed, John Henry, Paul Bunyan) and so should still be appropriate.

I was actually considering something VERY similar, what I called a Victorian/Pioneer setting. Where in America are you planning on the game taking place? Giving the players the ability to travel around would be lots of fun, but different areas of the frontier would have a very different feeling to them. New England, the South, the Mississippi, the Mideast forests, and the Great Plains are all going to have very different encounters and very different people to meet, and and wouldn't all be around in the same time setting - if you care that much about historical accuracy in a place with gods running around.

[Mando Knight]

No. First and foremost, there is no war, any war, in the entire history of mankind, which can be divided into 'good guys' and 'bad guys'. WWII Europe not withstanding. Human beings don't work that way. Period. At all. Ever. Second:

Sherman. March to the Sea.

If I have to explain any more to you, then you need to check up on history.

Not what I meant. Before Sherman and Grant got around to actually doing something, the South had the better and more successful generals, who were able to hold their own despite lacking the resources available to the North. Stonewall Jackson, Robert E. Lee, and the other Confederates had scores of early victories, compared to the Northern generals, which were mostly either relatively incompetent or too indecisive to stay in Lincoln's favor long enough to do anything.

Besides, Sherman's "Kill 'Em All" March to the Sea and Grant's alcoholism both fit the belligerent Ares better than the wise Athena.

[The Tygre]

Not what I meant. Before Sherman and Grant got around to actually doing something, the South had the better and more successful generals, who were able to hold their own despite lacking the resources available to the North. Stonewall Jackson, Robert E. Lee, and the other Confederates had scores of early victories, compared to the Northern generals, which were mostly either relatively incompetent or too indecisive to stay in Lincoln's favor long enough to do anything.

Yeah, even we admit that. Sorry for snapping at ya'. Southern thing...

[Ashes]

I don't really understand why the Pesedjet would be opposed to slavery? Most of Egypt was built on slave labour wasn't it? And If I'm not completely wrong they were often African slaves as well.

[The Tygre]

I don't really understand why the Pesedjet would be opposed to slavery? Most of Egypt was built on slave labour wasn't it? And If I'm not completely wrong they were often African slaves as well.

Only when it's for them. Now it's someone taking away worshipers and labor.

[NothingButCake]

I don't really understand why the Pesedjet would be opposed to slavery? Most of Egypt was built on slave labour wasn't it? And If I'm not completely wrong they were often African slaves as well.Ancient Egypt had slaves, but it was not more reliant on slave labor more than other regions of antiquity and less so than some. The great Ancient Egyptian monuments that we see now were built by Egyptian workers, who worked on projects for the pharaoh during the agricultural off-season in return for being allowed to work his lands. (There is also no evidence of systematic enslavement of Jewish peoples except in the Old Testament.)

[horus42]

Only when it's for them. Now it's someone taking away worshipers and labor.

That was my reasoning too. Sort of like an older brother swooping in to save his younger brother from a bully because, "Only I am allowed to treat him like that!"

[Indon]

I don't see why Poseidon or Hephaestus would join the South: the North had the advantages in Naval power and industry, which would both fall under their domains. Athena I could see going South, though, since most of the good generals were on that side.

Hmm, idea.

Athena is guiding the Confederate armies, and in fact did much to start the rebellion in the first place...

But she's on the Union's side.

The entire Civil War is a Xanatos Gambit on her part to get her father killed by Union forces and their supporters during Pickett's Charge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickett%27s_Charge).

Edit: Actually, is that even possible in Scion?

[horus42]

Hmm, idea.

Athena is guiding the Confederate armies, and in fact did much to start the rebellion in the first place...

But she's on the Union's side.

The entire Civil War is a Xanatos Gambit on her part to get her father killed by Union forces and their supporters during Pickett's Charge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickett%27s_Charge).

Edit: Actually, is that even possible in Scion?

Gods and Titans can kill each other, but I don't think mortals can kill gods without some sort of divine superweapon... *ideas are forming...*

[subject42]

Besides, Sherman's "Kill 'Em All" March to the Sea and Grant's alcoholism both fit the belligerent Ares better than the wise Athena.

Don't forget about Sheridan. He was still being used as a boogeyman to scare children when my grandmother was young.

If you mention him and Sherman, it might be nice to do so in the context of Carthage. There might be some old bad blood afoot over that one, still.

[horus42]

So here's the official lineup:

Athena is behind everything. She goaded the Vanir into their war with the Aesir, and prompted half of the Dodekatheon to secede as well, but appeared to remain loyal to Zeus and the CSA. The other gods joined for their stated reasons. (Loa and Pesedjet to stop their worshipers from being enslaved, Atzlanti to keep the US out of Latin America, and the Amatsukami because someone told them about the A-bombs that will be dropped on Japan relatively soon.)

Athena is guiding the CSA at first, which is why they were winning at first, but after a while, she openly changes her allegiance, and the North starts winning as she goes in for the kill on Zeus. Although in the end, she'll fail (unless the players do something drastic, in which case this will become an alternate universe type thing) and will cover it up so insanely well that to this day, no one knows it was her fault.

Also: can anyone help with statting out period weapons? I figure that firearms should have high speed (as in it take a lot of ticks before they can be fired again) and have low accuracy, but not much else to go on.