Best Races for Spellthief Build <3.5>

[~LuckyBoneDice~]

I'm planning on a Spellthief1/Sorcerer 4/Arcane Trickster 10 for a lv1. races of, phb, mm, and oa are the only books I can use (otherwise, I'd do an Amphibious Neraph)

What race should I pick?

[Glimbur]

Human. The extra feat is nice, and honestly the other more niche races aren't available with just those books. It's possible there is something nice in OA, but human = bonus skills + bonus feat without downsides.

[~LuckyBoneDice~]

Human. The extra feat is nice, and honestly the other more niche races aren't available with just those books. It's possible there is something nice in OA, but human = bonus skills + bonus feat without downsides.

there's already a human fighter. Every player must be a different race. and no small races y'all

[Chen]

Half-elf? Or anything with Favored Class Sorc or Spellthief otherwise you're going to get an XP penalty.

[~LuckyBoneDice~]

Half-elf? Or anything with Favored Class Sorc or Spellthief otherwise you're going to get an XP penalty.

DM ignores XP Penalty. and Half-Elf is Craptacular

[Catch]

there's already a human fighter. Every player must be a different race. and no small races y'all

Isn't that pertinent information you should include in your first post?

The Vanara from OA has high Int, a climb speed, plus some decent skill bonuses, and monkeys are little tricksters, after all.

[~LuckyBoneDice~]

Isn't that pertinent information you should include in your first post?

The Vanara from OA has high Int and Dex, plus some decent skill bonuses, and monkeys are little tricksters, after all.

it was a toss-up between vanara and changeling

[Pluto]

it was a toss-up between vanara and changeling

If one of the options is a viciously honest talking monkey, that is the only option.

[Forever Curious]

I'd suggest Spellscale: one of the only +0 LA races I know that grants a Charisma bonus (which a Spellthief needs).

[Ormagoden]

Go changeling, sparrow changeling.

"Nobody suspects the sparrow!"

[ErrantX]

If nothing small then Strongheart halfling is out... as is whisper gnome...

Illumian is great, as is Spellscale then. Consider Dragonborn something as well.

-X

[Optimystik]

I'd suggest Spellscale: one of the only +0 LA races I know that grants a Charisma bonus (which a Spellthief needs).

Lesser Aasimar too.
(Is that cheddar I smell?)

Keep in mind that an Int bonus will be just as useful for a Spellthief as a Cha bonus. Either way, you'll have more points for Cha and still be effective at the skillmonkey role.

That should broaden your class choices somewhat.

[The Cat Goddess]

Whisper Gnome, and to heck with your "no small races"...

The ability to silence opponents when you sneak attack (through a feat) is awesome.

[Darrin]

The Vanara from OA has high Int, a climb speed, plus some decent skill bonuses, and monkeys are little tricksters, after all.

The OA Errata (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/OAWeberrata_02062006.zip) removed the ability adjustments for Vanara. It also removed the LA +1 from Hengeyokai, so Hengeyokai Sparrow or Crane is a very strong pick. In hybrid form, they both have a 20' fly speed, which is pure DEATH FROM ABOVE at ECL 1-4. The Sparrow in particular gets very sneaky at fine-sized with a +16 size bonus on Hide checks.

[gdiddy]

Play a warforged, named Borjk.

When you encounter a wizard, say:

"We are the Borjk. Lower your shields and surrender your spells. We will add your mystic and arcane distinctiveness to our own. Your spells will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile."

Then, when they are very scared, hug them to death.

[Catch]

The OA Errata (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/OAWeberrata_02062006.zip) removed the ability adjustments for Vanara. It also removed the LA +1 from Hengeyoka

I'm not seeing either of those changes in the errata document you linked. Not that I'm incredulous, but I can't find them.

[Darrin]

I'm not seeing either of those changes in the errata document you linked. Not that I'm incredulous, but I can't find them.

Whoops. I should have caught that.

The changes to the Vanara and Hengeyokai were printed as official errata in Dragon #318, which contains quite a bit of errata that never made it into the OA Web Errata. Rather than checking, I just assumed the racial changes were in the zip file. I should have double-checked.

Check with your DM if he recognizes or has access to the 3.5 update in Dragon #318.

[BooNL]

Whoops. I should have caught that.

The changes to the Vanara and Hengeyokai were printed as official errata in Dragon #318, which contains quite a bit of errata that never made it into the OA Web Errata. Rather than checking, I just assumed the racial changes were in the zip file. I should have double-checked.

Check with your DM if he recognizes or has access to the 3.5 update in Dragon #318.

But, but... Dragon is never official!?

Anyway, Illumian or Vanara would be my choices.

[TheMadLinguist]

Greensnake Naga.

It has really awesome stat boosts.

[Doc Roc]

Greensnake Naga.

It has really awesome stat boosts.

And offers racial access to mindsight, which I don't think is necessarily relevant to you.

[Teron]

But, but... Dragon is never official!?
Dragon was always official. Even when it was published by Paizo, WotC controlled the content (I recall a Paizo employee stating WotC banned substitution levels after they stopped appearing in first party books, for example) and I think they approved individual articles.

In fact, a WotC designer, James Wyatt, wrote the OA 3.5 update.

[~LuckyBoneDice~]

Why Naga? Doesn't it have a hellacious LA and RHD?

[true_shinken]

Why Naga? Doesn't it have a hellacious LA and RHD?
OA Naga is LA+1 and no HD.

[~LuckyBoneDice~]

OA Naga is LA+1 and no HD.

Really? That's broken as hell...

[true_shinken]

Really? That's broken as hell...
Greensnake Nagas are not that hot, really. Plenty of other more powerful races at LA+1 out there.

[~LuckyBoneDice~]

Greensnake Nagas are not that hot, really. Plenty of other more powerful races at LA+1 out there.

Maybe I can attempt a 2LA and not do this build...

If anything, Changeling with Cabinet Trickster 5 would open a can of Hurt...

[Draxar]

Killoren, from Races of the Wild.

– Immunity to humanoid-specific spells
– Choice between:
-bonus to knowledge nature and save bonus,
-a rather handy skill bonus to a bunch of sneaky and detecting skills,
-or a charisma based smite (which can be made into a stunning attack with a feat, allowing for more sneaks)
– No death from old age

[~LuckyBoneDice~]

Killoren, from Races of the Wild.

– Immunity to humanoid-specific spells
– Choice between:
-bonus to knowledge nature and save bonus,
-a rather handy skill bonus to a bunch of sneaky and detecting skills,
-or a charisma based smite (which can be made into a stunning attack with a feat, allowing for more sneaks)
– No death from old age

Already using one for my druid, Cedar. Wouldn't play one again honestly

[true_shinken]

I saw on the other thread that your DM banned your Arcane Trickster build...
might I interest you in a Suel Arcanamach?

[~LuckyBoneDice~]

I saw on the other thread that your DM banned your Arcane Trickster build...
might I interest you in a Suel Arcanamach?

no, no, no, and HELL NO!

[true_shinken]

no, no, no, and HELL NO!

Well, if you could just give it a try (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870638/The_Suel_Arcanamach_Handbook)...

[~LuckyBoneDice~]

Well, if you could just give it a try (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870638/The_Suel_Arcanamach_Handbook)...

That class is 4 levels long. It sucks other than that. No.

What's next? Entopomancer? Master of Masks?

[true_shinken]

That class is 4 levels long. It sucks other than that. No.

What's next? Entopomancer? Master of Masks?

I actually find Arcanamach being 4 levels long a GOOD thing, as I have more room for more abilities. Anyway, that's just my opinion.

[~LuckyBoneDice~]

I actually find Arcanamach being 4 levels long a GOOD thing, as I have more room for more abilities. Anyway, that's just my opinion.

I don't dig that class for PCs, because for me to be a BAMF, I have to be Chaotic Evil in a party of Good

[Glimbur]

I don't dig that class for PCs, because for me to be a BAMF, I have to be Chaotic Evil in a party of Good

Why would you have to be CE? Suel Arcanamach allows you to be any alignment. I agree that getting out after four levels is advisable... then take gish classes like 5 levels of Abjurant Champion, a level of Spellsword, etc.

[~LuckyBoneDice~]

Why would you have to be CE? Suel Arcanamach allows you to be any alignment. I agree that getting out after four levels is advisable... then take gish classes like 5 levels of Abjurant Champion, a level of Spellsword, etc.

Hexblade 3/Paladin of Slaughter 3/Battledancer 1/Suel Archanamach 4. CHA synergy

[Eldariel]

Hexblade 3/Paladin of Slaughter 3/Battledancer 1/Suel Archanamach 4. CHA synergy

Sufficient to say that's far from the only way to build a Suel Arcanamach, and frankly way too defensive for my taste; saves are hardly worth all those levels.

[ErrantX]

I really like the idea of a Duskblade 6 / Suel Arcanamach 1 / Abjurant Champion 4 / Swiftblade 9, myself, when it comes to Suel Arcanamach. Throw some Knowledge Devotion on that and you're good.

-X

[~LuckyBoneDice~]

Sufficient to say that's far from the only way to build a Suel Arcanamach, and frankly way too defensive for my taste; saves are hardly worth all those levels.

adding CHA to all saves twice???

[Eldariel]

adding CHA to all saves twice???

So you have no trouble making your saves. Congrats. You generally don't have trouble making saves with Cha to saves once. That leaves you 3 levels for e.g. Duskblade for Arcane Channeling, if you feel so inclined. Or maybe rather some Warblade or Crusader or such. Point being, Hexblade 3 is a tradeoff and far from best use of the levels.

[Draxar]

Already using one for my druid, Cedar. Wouldn't play one again honestly

I'm curious, why not?