Tricking out harpoons

[Escheton]

ok, so you have a quiver of ehlonna (mielikki) stuffed with harpoons.
you lvl a bit
time to upgrade a few of them.

What are good mods and enchantments to make them lockdown and hurt more?

[valadil]

What exactly are the mechanics for harpoons? I was thinking of treating them like thrown spears or javelins with a built in power attack because they're powerful but unwieldy.

[~LuckyBoneDice~]

#1: be a Large race
#2: wear Mountain Plate
#3: Attach a Grappling Hand Crossbow to your arm
#4: Load a Harpoon with a chain attached
#5: Quote Scorpion

[Escheton]

it's under frostfell weapons, exotic

it's far too powerfull for martial anyways. 1d10 ranged, and target hit must make ref save vs 10+dmg or have it stuck. Can't charge or run and at half movement due to harpoon sticking out of chest.
Takes 2 free hands and full round action to remove. In which case he/she gets the original damage again.

full round action...so if you actuallu bothered getting more harpoons he/she is toast

from the awesome exotic weapon thread

[Ernir]

Fleshgrinding Harpoons are cool.

[Escheton]

I considered that, it's melee only. And I'm pretty sure harpoons are classed as ranged.
Or is it more a throwable melee weapon?

[Jeff240sx]

I considered that, it's melee only. And I'm pretty sure harpoons are classed as ranged.
Or is it more a throwable melee weapon?

Kinda depends on how big you are...

[Vizzerdrix]

Either mage bane, or profane. If you're gonna use profane though, you better learn the trick the kuo-toa use. wrap the rope around your shield, and stick them to a solid surface. They use goo, you'll have to use spikes.

[Godskook]

I considered that, it's melee only. And I'm pretty sure harpoons are classed as ranged.
Or is it more a throwable melee weapon?

No, you kinda had it right. Thrown melee weapons can get either enchantments, but only the relevant ones work.

Bloodstorm blade on the other hand, allows us the ability to get melee enchantments on ranged weaponry without any issues.

[senrath]

It's also not an unreasonable houserule to allow harpoons to be treated as melee weapons, considering the description specifically states they're a special type of broad-headed spear. Of course, that's up to your DM.

[Abd al-Azrad]

Would Splitting apply? Chuck a harpoon at someone and end up sticking two in them?

Alternately, Returning could be interpreted in an interesting way. Either it pulls the target toward you (Get over here!) or just rips itself out of the target at the end of your turn. Again, doubling your damage but removing the actual good part of harpoons, the debuff effect they have.

Collision is extra-useful on a harpoon, as it raises your initial damage, the DC to avoid getting nailed, AND the secondary damage if you pull it out.

Knockback used to be pretty awesome before the MIC reprint, check into that one. Halving movement as well as knocking your opponent around seems pretty entertaining.

Strangely, I kind of like Illuminating. If you have superior senses (as you should, ranged fighter) you're nailing an opponent with a beacon of light they can't get rid of. Try sneaking around with a glowing harpoon in your chest.

Precise is also a good call. Ranged battles devolve into melees so quickly, and you don't want to have to waste shots due to cover or your foes closing on your allies.

Finally, Ghost Touch. Incorporeal enemies don't come up often, but when they do, wouldn't you like to ram a sharp stick into them that stops them from hiding in walls?

[Panigg]

I use harpoons in my current campaign.

I'm a EWM. Exotic Weapons Master, though I don't have the prestige class. But considering I have 3 exotic weapon proficincies, I might as well be.

Harpoons to me are more of a tool, like nets, rather than weapons.

Now, the best and obvious enchant is fleshgrinding. But it this only really works for evil characters.

Besides that there really is no "best enchant". Anything continues works well. There is just isn't much of that. Maybe spellstoring with a long duration spell.

[Abd al-Azrad]

I use harpoons in my current campaign.

I'm a EWM. Exotic Weapons Master, though I don't have the prestige class. But considering I have 3 exotic weapon proficincies, I might as well be.

Harpoons to me are more of a tool, like nets, rather than weapons.

Now, the best and obvious enchant is fleshgrinding. But it this only really works for evil characters.

Besides that there really is no "best enchant". Anything continues works well. There is just isn't much of that. Maybe spellstoring with a long duration spell.

Fleshgrinding doesn't work, it only can be applied to melee weapons. Similarly with spell storing. And the harpoon's special ability is irrelevant to the duration of the spell, even if this did work- when the harpoon hits its target, the spell applies to the target and continues to apply even after it is removed.

Wow that was a lot of being a downer on your good ideas. I actually went through exactly that thought process myself, wanting to use fleshgrinding and spell storing. They seem like they would work, eh?

Anyways, yes. Harpoons are a tool. All weapons are tools. Harpoons are more versatile a tool than most weapons, as they inflict a mobility debuff as well as dealing significant damage to an enemy at range. The strength of their debuff is based entirely off the damage they deal, and as such, they are also a very efficient tool- one need focus only on their damage output while throwing harpoons, and still maximize the harpoon's additional abilities. As such, I'd really put my vote on Collision- +2 effective bonus, +5 damage. That's also +5 DC and +5 secondary damage. Harpoons are actually pretty awesome as described by Escheton.

[Panigg]

Fleshgrinding: When this piercing or slashing melee
weapon deals damage to a living creature, the wielder may
command the weapon to “grind” as a free action.

Woah, you're right. Totally didn't see that.

[Escheton]

it's fun on a greatspear though, the 2d6 reach throwable weapon

now, a harpoon chucking skirmisher with a fleshgrinding greatspear and spring attack...


grabbed from shax's:

Alchemical Flare Stake (x3, 15 GP ea.)
Price: 45 GP
Weight: 0.3#
(Expedition to Castle Ravenloft p. 208)
One-shot item, treated as a dagger, does 1d6 fire damage against corporeal undead. It also lodges into the undead's body and does an additional 1d6 fire damage every round (the undead creature, assuming it isn't mindless, can remove all stakes with a standard action). There's no duration listed, so it apparently continues to burn until the creature is dead or the stake is removed. There are also alchemical flare bolts for the same price, but they don't do additional damage on subsequent rounds. Although the description says treat the stakes like daggers for proficiency purposes, I'm not clear on whether they can be thrown Buffy-style like daggers... but it would be pure awesomesauce if they could.
Craft (Alchemy) DC: 20


what would it take to combine the awesomeness of harpoons with the damage over time of these babys?
besides a craft alchemy 20 and dm fiat?

[Hand_of_Vecna]

I worked on a harpoon thrower build myself after another thread talked about how awsome they are my personal weapon enhancement was splitting together and trying to convince the DM to let me do the damage for ripping the harpoon out while keeping a tip in the target to get the movement debuff. Fluffwise I was thinking of something like the elfprince from hellboy 2's spear with a line going back to the shaft from each broken off head.

If anyone's curious my build is

Savage Bard 1 one flaw EWP:Harpoon, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
Warblade 1
Warblade 2 Song of The White Raven
Warblade 3
Warblade 4
Bloodstormblade 1 Combat Reflexes
Master Thrower 1 Trip Trick
Bloodstorblade 2
Bloodstormblade 3 Mageslayer, Ranged Threat
Bloodstormblade 4
Bloodstormblade 5
Bloodstormblade 6 Improved Precise Shot, Specialization
Bloodstormblade 7
Bloodstormblade 8
Bloodstormblade 9 Ranged Weapon Mastery, Open Feat
Bloodstormblade 10
Warblade 5 Open Feat
Warblade 6 Open Feat
Warblade 7
Warblade 8

I also considered an alternate build With Harmonious Knight instead of Savage Bard and with the level of Master Thrower removed so I could make a solely STR dependent build. Don't know what to do with the late game feats though.

[Nanoblack]

i would suggest masterslaying so once they rip it out you can ready and action to have it crit them

[Abd al-Azrad]

Oh, cool... never even thought of Master Thrower before. "Two with One Blow": you may take a -4 penalty to hit two adjacent opponents with one attack. With harpoons... *snicker*

I'd almost be tempted to max out Master Thrower, grab Trip Shot, Two with One Blow and Deadeye Shot (increasing the crit multiplier) so you end up with a ranged attack dealing 1d10 + heckofalot, crit 19-20/x3, tripping, pinning enemies together, halving movement, and keeping them on a 30' leash around you. Maybe not Wizard-levels of battlefield control, but that could really wreck someone.

Ooh! And if you wear that crazy evil king armor from BoVD, with the chains for attaching to slaves? The one that forcibly inflicts Shield Other on your slaves, targeting you? Find some way to work the power of those chains into your harpoon leashes, and you'll end up facing foes who are debuffed, stuck within a move action of you, and if they try to fight you they take half the damage they deal upon themselves. Only solution for them is to take a full-round action to pull out the harpoon... which you then stick right back in them on your turn. Lockdown.

[TheMadLinguist]

Fleshgrinding doesn't work, it only can be applied to melee weapons. Similarly with spell storing.
Spell storing actually can be applied to melee or ranged weapons, since unlike other enchantments (like ki focus and throwing) it doesn't specific melee-only.

[Gadora]

Have you considered using this with a spool of endless rope?

That 30' rope? You can adjust its length. That harpoon sitting on the ground over there? You can reel it in at a rate of 50' per round. (Please note that your DM may ask for a reflex save.) You may be able to use this to yank a harpoon out of an enemy/corpse so that it is available again. There are likely more uses for this, but that's all I can come up with off the top of my head.

Rope of stone may also be amusing.

[Escheton]

On that note: rod of ropes modded with a harpoon.
Nothing screams hookshot like that baby

[Escheton]

right, posting after myself...

anyhoo: complete warrior has some nice enchantments like blood seeking, explosive and exit wound.

Blood seeking attacks around cover. Explosive explodes...and exit wounds blows through the body to the next target. Now picture the combo.

Dude behind a tower shield gets a harpoon with trailing rope that explodes as it passes though him past his full cover shield, perhaps even into the mage that he is trying to protect behind him...

[Lycanthromancer]

Penetrating Shot feat: fire a weapon in a 60' line, damaging all enemies whose AC you hit. Combine with bloodstorm blade.

Deep crystal (+2d6 for 2 pp).

Manyfanged property (x4 damage).

Wounding (2 Con damage per shot).

Holy, unholy, anarchic, and axiomatic (negative levels while a target has it embedded, not to mention additional damage).

Various psychic warrior powers are nice for this, such as strength of my enemy to deal additional Strength damage and get you even more bonuses to your Strength.

[Escheton]

the penetrating shot is nice, though the bab 10, str 15 and point blank are a bit steep as prereqs.
There is also a lvl 2 spell and lvl 7 maneuver that does that btw.
how that is balanced, I have no idea.

manyfanged, source?

con dmg, always nice. works well with returning.

does that really work when stuck in you as opposed to just when wielded?

[Lycanthromancer]

the penetrating shot is nice, though the bab 10, str 15 and point blank are a bit steep as prereqs.
There is also a lvl 2 spell and lvl 7 maneuver that does that btw.
how that is balanced, I have no idea.

manyfanged, source?

con dmg, always nice. works well with returning.

does that really work when stuck in you as opposed to just when wielded?Manyfanged is from Serpent Kingdoms. Pull it off the manyfanged dagger and there you go.

As far as holy/unholy/etc, I'm not 100% sure, though the extra damage (both in and out) is great.

Oh, and look into some of the cheap charges-per-day items in the MIC. Extra d6s are always nice, and a lot of those items are very inexpensive.

Don't forget about Power Throw. Like Power Attack, but for thrown weapons.

[Admiral Squish]

Gaaah! I'm playing an inuit-based darfellan. If I had KNOWN this thing was available, I'd have got it instead of martial weapon proficiency (halberd). Stupid!

[Escheton]

uhm...you actually spend a feat on a martial proficiency?
wow, thats dedication to a concept.
you can always spend a later feat on exotic prof.
then apply the aptitude weapon enchantment to a bunch of other exotics so you don't feel like you just wasted a feat.

[Admiral Squish]

It was the only decent non-reach two handed piercing weapon I could find...

*weeps at own stupidity*

Edit: Of course, that would also mean I would have had to have gotten a decent dex, too.

[Greenish]

It was the only decent non-reach two handed piercing weapon I could find...What's wrong with reach weapons? If you were going to burn a feat anyway, why not Spiked Chain?

[Escheton]

not really. There are enough ways to throw purely of strength.
It'll cost ya a few feats, but it can be done.

ask your dm if you can respec with new information that goes better with your fluff idea and is crunchwise pretty sweet as well.

I think it had to be piercing, on that note: greatspear 2d6 x3 10ft

[Admiral Squish]

What's wrong with reach weapons? If you were going to burn a feat anyway, why not Spiked Chain?

It makes no sense to me that a spiked chain wouldn't take any penalties for use underwater.


not really. There are enough ways to throw purely of strength.
It'll cost ya a few feats, but it can be done.

ask your dm if you can respec with new information that goes better with your fluff idea and is crunchwise pretty sweet as well.

I think it had to be piercing, on that note: greatspear 2d6 x3 10ft

That might work. I should try to talk to him.

And what kind of weapon is greatspear? Reach? Simple? Martial?

[Escheton]

reach and exotic

though with the +1 enchantment "aptitude" from ToB you can apply your exotic weapon prof: harpoon on the greatspear as well.
and seeing you will have more harpoons then greatspears its cheaper then making the bunch of them enchanted like that.

[Greenish]

And what kind of weapon is greatspear? Reach? Simple? Martial?Exotic reach weapon.

[Admiral Squish]

Just to clarify, I'm level two right now, so anything that takes a lot of money is out. I think I could just swap MWP for EWP: harpoon, and wield a spear. The plain 'spear' not the longspear.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

Have you guys checked out Bloodstormblade? It's quite a bit better than a full progression of master thrower and really easy to qualify for; max ranks in on skill at level 5, one feat that your gonna have anyway and one manuever and one stance from iron heart(your gonna need to get this from a level of warblade because some abilities are fueled by sacrificing strikes so you want at least three readied for fuel). It's abilities are righteous lemme lay out a quick version of it's best abilities.

1 sacrifice a iron heart strike; weapon acts as returning this round

2 you can make strikes with thrown weapons also you can choose to treat your thrown weapons as mellee ie str to attack/damage, mellee only feats, mellee only weapon enhancements. . . Great Cleave at range seems pretty awsome

3 bonus feat

4 thrown weapon now instantly returns to you, you can make a full attack with one thrown weapon this ability does not require a strike to fuel it.

5 A very situational ability for overcoming partial cover

6 bonus feat

7 defensive stance; +4 dodge, +2 ref, and you can make a mellee attack against anyone who gets an AoO for you throwing. This seems mostly useless as I would have gotten around that AoO several levels ago. I suppose this could be useful for killing mooks faster, I'd rather take a feat to disallow the AoOs.

8 stance that gives your weapons 3 damage per round wounding effect. meh

9 bonus feat

10 full round action attack everything in range that you want to. ZOMG! If this isn't sick enough if you take out say 20 mooks great cleave would give you 20 attacks to target the nonmooks with at your leasure. This ability is fueled by a strike.

Oh for the record all of these abilities are Ex.

Ya, if I ever sitdown to make my own Kratos build I think it's gonna be Bloodstormblade with the chains just being fluff explaining my abilities.