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View Full Version : A creative way to kill something, or just useless?



Sir_Chivalry
2010-04-30, 04:00 PM
If you managed somehow to affect a target with these spells in this order, what would happen?

-Flesh to Stone
-Transmute Rock to Mud
-Transmute Mud to Rock
-Stone to Flesh

As far as I can see, that's a pretty gruesome death, but what is the playground's call?

senrath
2010-04-30, 04:00 PM
You wouldn't even need to do that. Just hit them with Flesh to Stone, then break the resulting statue.

Sir_Chivalry
2010-04-30, 04:01 PM
You wouldn't even need to do that. Just hit them with Flesh to Stone, then break the resulting statue.

Yes, but would those four spells equal death?

senrath
2010-04-30, 04:03 PM
Unless they could survive as an amorphous blob, it would kill them, yes.

the humanity
2010-04-30, 04:06 PM
I'd just leave it as a rock, rocks don't stink after a few days.

Magdela
2010-04-30, 04:06 PM
Yes, but why would you want to torture something in such a way? If you're going to kill it, just break the statue.

On the other hand, you could leave out the last step in that spell combo and use it to boost your intimidate checks. "This could be you in 18 seconds"

Doc Roc
2010-04-30, 04:29 PM
I Have No Mouth And I Should Use My Spells More Efficiently.
:smallwink:

lsfreak
2010-04-30, 04:29 PM
A better step would be to not cast Stone to Flesh. It doesn't kill them, so they can't be brought back as a character short of Wish/Miracle. Good luck trying to find out what the hell happened to them, though.

Drogorn
2010-04-30, 04:31 PM
Frostburn has a flesh to ice spell, if you want them really gone. Lower level, too.

-Flesh to ice
-Make snowcones

Jack_Simth
2010-04-30, 04:45 PM
If you managed somehow to affect a target with these spells in this order, what would happen?

-Flesh to Stone
-Transmute Rock to Mud
-Transmute Mud to Rock
-Stone to Flesh

As far as I can see, that's a pretty gruesome death, but what is the playground's call?

You're heavily into house-rule territory on what happens; this is a "DM call" situation - by a lot. A few things:
1) Transmute Mud to Rock is unnecessarily high-level. You cast the spells yourself; just use Dispel Magic, the 3rd level spell. Quicken it, if you want to take a round off your cycle.
2) Transmute Rock to Mud has a pesky first sentence: "This spell turns natural, uncut or unworked rock of any sort into an equal volume of mud. Magical stone is not affected by the spell." - does the resulting statue from a Flesh to Stone qualify as "natural" and non-"Magical" stone? If not, you have a break in your method. Technically a DM call, but when I had a BBEG do a similar trick (he was dropping them into molds created by Fabricate for purposes of Instant transformations into crazy shapes) I made a note when the party got ahold of a spellbook for it, and the method, that the Transmute Rock to Mud spell had been researched, and wasn't quite standard.

But yes, most DM's will have a rather gruesome end-result from that sequence.

Abd al-Azrad
2010-04-30, 04:46 PM
I don't care what the rest of the playground says about efficiency. That's horrifying, and thus I like.

Although leaving your opponent as a puddle of mud that has not technically died yet, and thus cannot be revived... also class.

Johel
2010-04-30, 04:49 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeFZXNDz7uA

Sir_Chivalry
2010-04-30, 04:57 PM
I Have No Mouth And I Should Use My Spells More Efficiently.
:smallwink:

Point's not efficiency, point's killing with style.:smallbiggrin:

Myou
2010-04-30, 05:04 PM
Nooo, no no, the combination is flesh to stone, then stone to mud, then purify water. Then they're basically stuck, not dead so not ressurrectable, but not really alive either. You'd probably need a wish spell to come back from that.

erikun
2010-04-30, 05:06 PM
Hold Person, then Wall of Stone (unbalanced), then Stone to Flesh. Sit back and watch as they are smothered under a quivering mass of psudo-flesh.

Set
2010-04-30, 05:08 PM
Baleful Polymorph to something edible (like a small fish).

Nom, nom, nom.

Since the target retains it's full hit points, it might last for a week or so, as a meal, as well.

"Ooh." Wizard clutches stomach.

"Something wrong?"

"Nah, just that evil cleric from last week. He's not quite dead yet, and keeps sloshing around..."

"I could punch you in the stomach until he dies."

"No thanks!"

Johel
2010-04-30, 05:08 PM
Nooo, no no, the combination is flesh to stone, then stone to mud, then purify water. Then they're basically stuck, not dead so not ressurrectable, but not really alive either. You'd probably need a wish spell to come back from that.

Flesh to Stone
Stone to Mud
Purify Water
Wall of Fire

After evaporation, can someone please locate the target ?

Ravens_Wing
2010-04-30, 05:15 PM
Frostburn has a flesh to ice spell, if you want them really gone. Lower level, too.

-Flesh to ice
-Make snowcones

Oh thats Twisted... I like!

NEO|Phyte
2010-04-30, 05:17 PM
Oh thats Twisted... I like!

For a more lucrative method, Flesh to Salt, then look up trade goods in the PHB.

5 gp One pound of salt or silver

Ravens_Wing
2010-04-30, 05:18 PM
For a more lucrative method, Flesh to Salt, then look up trade goods in the PHB.

Hah yeah Thats good too.

Kobold-Bard
2010-04-30, 05:20 PM
My personal favourite is using Reverse Gravity, then sitting in a deckchair with a glass of lemonade and laughing while all the little people fall helplessly.

nedz
2010-04-30, 05:29 PM
Flesh to Stone
Stone Shape

And you have some nice furniture etc.

Johel
2010-04-30, 05:32 PM
Flesh to Stone
Stone Shape

And you have some nice furniture etc.

...
Flesh to Stone
Stone Shape
Stone to Flesh

TADAAAAA !!
:smalltongue:

Kobold-Bard
2010-04-30, 05:34 PM
...
Flesh to Stone
Stone Shape
Stone to Flesh

TADAAAAA !!
:smalltongue:

How much detail can you get with Stone Shape? At worst you get some mis-shapen freaks, at best you could have a bunch of pseudo-umber hulks.

Johel
2010-04-30, 05:44 PM
How much detail can you get with Stone Shape? At worst you get some mis-shapen freaks, at best you could have a bunch of pseudo-umber hulks.

This is a good question.
Let's try it out... for Science !! :smalltongue:

Also, would it be an evil act to do this systematically to your defeated enemies ? :smallamused:

lsfreak
2010-04-30, 05:47 PM
...
Flesh to Stone
Stone Shape
Stone to Flesh

TADAAAAA !!
:smalltongue:

You guys are still missing the point. Stone to Flesh (or Ice, which really is better for this) means they don't die. RAW, your DM could say the creature dies after being turned back into flesh, and are thus able to be Resurrected. Keep them as stone, mud, or water vapor, and not only can they not be resurrected (since they're not dead yet), they also can't really be found.

@Kobold-Bard: Depends on how high your Craft checks are. Really, I'd say manipulating a body like that and then turning it back to flesh means the person dies.

Kobold-Bard
2010-04-30, 05:48 PM
This is a good question.
Let's try it out... for Science !! :smalltongue:

Also, would it be an evil act to do this systematically to your defeated enemies ? :smallamused:

arguskos has a transmutation specialist version of the Warage/Dread Necro/Beguiler called the Rearranger. It gets the ability to cast flesh to stone at will on dead creatures. That's basically the idea someone had (leave a trail of statues of your enemies behind you as a monument to your power).

Everyone look up the Rearranger[/totally subtle plug]

Johel
2010-04-30, 05:55 PM
You guys are still missing the point. Stone to Flesh (or Ice, which really is better for this) means they don't die. RAW, your DM could say the creature dies after being turned back into flesh, and are thus able to be Resurrected. Keep them as stone, mud, or water vapor, and not only can they not be resurrected (since they're not dead yet), they also can't really be found.

Not missing anything.

I just find way cooler to have your enemies wander around as some kind of twisted abominations. You could just smoothen their whole surface, fuse limbs with their body, letting only a slug-like version of themselves. Don't forget to erase the mouth to match the already quoted "And I must scream". Technically, it wouldn't modify their anatomy too much.

Of course, the end result depends of the DM.
But just to see his face, I'll try that if I get the opportunity.

randomhero00
2010-04-30, 06:07 PM
Something along that vein (as in doing screwy things to people) when a party member dies, skin him and make a leather jacket out of his flesh. To be resurrected you only need part of the body after all...Then when he's resurrected give him the jacket as a gift :smallbiggrin:

awa
2010-04-30, 06:43 PM
I remeber reading in a dragon magizene anwsering that question,
If you use stone shape on something say make it an umberhulk then cast flesh to stone you dont get an umberhulk just a umberhulk shaped statue of meat.

Darius Rae
2010-04-30, 06:48 PM
just a umberhulk shaped statue of meat.

I fail to see the problem with that... :smallbiggrin:

Boci
2010-04-30, 07:05 PM
I remeber reading in a dragon magizene anwsering that question,
If you use stone shape on something say make it an umberhulk then cast flesh to stone you dont get an umberhulk just a umberhulk shaped statue of meat.

So, if you then raised it as an undead...

As a DM, I would be very pleased if one of my PCs came up with a way of using higher level spells to get the best use of a lower level one, and thus I'd grant them some leeway in RAW.

Asheram
2010-04-30, 07:29 PM
If you managed somehow to affect a target with these spells in this order, what would happen?

-Flesh to Stone
-Transmute Rock to Mud
-Transmute Mud to Rock
-Stone to Flesh

As far as I can see, that's a pretty gruesome death, but what is the playground's call?

You know, this Exact combination was used in one of the Grayhawk novels... Let's see... One of the Paul Kidd books, I think it was "Decent into the depths of the earth"

It was used upon a Pixie by one of the main characters. In this case (the quite gruesome case) the subject of the spells was still alive, just... *coughs* incapacitated, as he was a small pile of still aware flesh.

Jack_Simth
2010-04-30, 07:32 PM
You know, this Exact combination was used in one of the Grayhawk novels... Let's see... One of the Paul Kidd books, I think it was "Decent into the depths of the earth"

It was used upon a Pixie by one of the main characters. In this case (the quite gruesome case) the subject of the spells was still alive, just... *coughs* incapacitated, as he was a small pile of still aware flesh.
Which is a somewhat dangerous precedent, as it gives players the option to do Instant Alter Self stuffs. Granted, Psionics has a way to do that with just the XPH, but still.

Asheram
2010-04-30, 07:39 PM
Which is a somewhat dangerous precedent, as it gives players the option to do Instant Alter Self stuffs. Granted, Psionics has a way to do that with just the XPH, but still.

Do forgive me, but I can't really see how it'd be breaking anything, it's a one way transformation and it's permanent. (and can't really be controlled).

Jack_Simth
2010-04-30, 07:52 PM
Do forgive me, but I can't really see how it'd be breaking anything, it's a one way transformation and it's permanent. (and can't really be controlled).Sure it can. Fabricate up a mold that's as finely-tuned as you please, set the statue over the mold, then dump the poor victim in. Potentially, you can Fabricate the statue directly, and skip the Stone to Mud / Dispel Stone to Mud steps altogether.

Asheram
2010-04-30, 08:14 PM
Sure it can. Fabricate up a mold that's as finely-tuned as you please, set the statue over the mold, then dump the poor victim in. Potentially, you can Fabricate the statue directly, and skip the Stone to Mud / Dispel Stone to Mud steps altogether.

I was personally thinking about making minor facial adjustments, but then I remembered that flesh to stone doesn't work that way.
Which would mean that if the sculptist removes something it is gone. chip off a little piece of cheek, and you're lacking skin when it comes back.

And the way you're describing it, it's like taking a little man made out of wax with little plastic things for bones, muscles, eyes and organs, melting the wax figure down and trying to pour it into a mold with every bone, muscle and organ in the same place it were before. It's just not doable.

In the case I talked about, the end result was a bag of... something almost indescribable, with previously liquified bones that had hardened at odd angles and two bare eyeballs laying on top of it. Something alive by bare chance.

If I would DM it, and someone would try it, I'd probably warn them with the words "Sure, but you'll probably just end up like something that looks like it comes from Silent Hill"

Jack_Simth
2010-04-30, 08:22 PM
I was personally thinking about making minor facial adjustments, but then I remembered that flesh to stone doesn't work that way.
Which would mean that if the sculptist removes something it is gone. chip off a little piece of cheek, and you're lacking skin when it comes back.

And the way you're describing it, it's like taking a little man made out of wax with little plastic things for bones, muscles, eyes and organs, melting the wax figure down and trying to pour it into a mold with every bone, muscle and organ in the same place it were before. It's just not doable.

In the case I talked about, the end result was a bag of... something almost indescribable, with previously liquified bones that had hardened at odd angles and two bare eyeballs laying on top of it. Something alive by bare chance.

If I would DM it, and someone would try it, I'd probably warn them with the words "Sure, but you'll probably just end up like something that looks like it comes from Silent Hill"
Okay, so you start with test subjects where you don't care if you get a non-viable result. Practice your technique until the DM is sufficiently grossed out that you can make it work reliably.

term1nally s1ck
2010-04-30, 08:26 PM
Flesh to stone
Animate Object
Stone to Flesh.


I think this is a magical way to implant a conscience into somebody. Multiple Personality Disorder, personified.

deuxhero
2010-04-30, 08:39 PM
I think it may just no longer work once the target is no longer an object.

Jack_Simth
2010-04-30, 08:43 PM
I think it may just no longer work once the target is no longer an object.Curiously, technically, the target is not an object at any stage of the exercise - so it doesn't technically work in the first place.

Kobold-Bard
2010-05-01, 04:38 AM
Something along that vein (as in doing screwy things to people) when a party member dies, skin him and make a leather jacket out of his flesh. To be resurrected you only need part of the body after all...Then when he's resurrected give him the jacket as a gift :smallbiggrin:

You play Chaotics a lot, don't you? :smalltongue:

PhoenixRivers
2010-05-01, 04:47 AM
I think a graft set based on magical shaping under stone shape would be awesome. It'd need a cost, of course, but it'd be an interesting technique.

For example:

Granite skin - Tiny Parts of granite have been enchanted to remain after the reversal. They form a hefty armor.

Gain a permanent armor check penalty of -4, and for movement, are treated as if at medium encumbrance. Gain DR 10/adamantine.


Something along that vein (as in doing screwy things to people) when a party member dies, skin him and make a leather jacket out of his flesh. To be resurrected you only need part of the body after all...Then when he's resurrected give him the jacket as a gift :smallbiggrin:

I've seen something along these lines in a game of mine. A human hero died, and the party wizard thought it a shame to let good parts go to waste, and wanted to defray the cost of the resurrection. Cut off her hands, made two Hand of Glory, and got a True Res. After that, they gave the character back one of her hands, and sold the other. The party briefly discussed using Flesh to Stone + Breaking off hands + Dispel + Regeneration to make more.

I shook my head.

ghashxx
2010-05-01, 09:00 PM
There have been some amazing uses of horrible things here, though my personal favorite has to be flesh to ice, and then you get snow cones. The next time I have the chance, I'm doing this. Especially if there's still fighting going on.

Druid walks over to the ice statue, pulls out knife, and starts shaving ice. Party fighter says "Ummmmm...what are you doing?"
Enemies stare.
"Just makin' snow cones Fighter. Hey, enemy guys, he was your friend after all. Want one?"
Enemies crap their pants, and run screaming.

Fayd
2010-05-01, 09:18 PM
Nooo, no no, the combination is flesh to stone, then stone to mud, then purify water. Then they're basically stuck, not dead so not ressurrectable, but not really alive either. You'd probably need a wish spell to come back from that.

Quick vestige manufacture? (At least for some definitions of how they're made) All in all, pretty gruesome.

EDIT: They probably wouldn't be GOOD, but it would be a horrible fate...

Graymayre
2010-05-01, 09:24 PM
isn't there a spell that transforms rocks into so many pounds of gems or something like that?

Maybe you could turn him into rock, turn the rock into diamonds, and sell them to buy the estate he just left vacant.

Rainbownaga
2010-05-02, 12:49 AM
All this raises the question of when a creature actually 'dies'.

If a character is petrified and the statue is broken, do they die at that point (since technically this would be a result of having their hp reduced to 0) or do you need to break the effect before their souls are free?

SaintRidley
2010-05-02, 01:43 AM
There have been some amazing uses of horrible things here, though my personal favorite has to be flesh to ice, and then you get snow cones. The next time I have the chance, I'm doing this. Especially if there's still fighting going on.

Druid walks over to the ice statue, pulls out knife, and starts shaving ice. Party fighter says "Ummmmm...what are you doing?"
Enemies stare.
"Just makin' snow cones Fighter. Hey, enemy guys, he was your friend after all. Want one?"
Enemies crap their pants, and run screaming.

Fighter: "Isn't that a little... morbid?"

Druid: "Reduce, Reuse, Recycle. I don't make up the rules."

Tyrmatt
2010-05-02, 04:45 AM
Much easier to just kill a man using Stone Shape.
You can, with an understanding of mathematics and volume, even turn it into a torture chamber.
"I'm going to seal you in here. With this size of a casket, you'll have about 5 minutes of air before you begin to suffocate. I can only cast this spell three times today. So that's once to seal you in, once to let you out if you decide you have the information I want. The third one? That depends on the information you give me."

Bonus comedy continuation.
Paladin: Alright, I've got him some water and little biscuits.
Cleric: It'll have to wait, he's re-evaluating his life choices under a strict time limit. Why don't you take a walk?
Paladin: *sigh* If I don't see it, I can't fall from it.