Power Word Pain...

[Tao the Ninja]

...best first level spell ever?

[Killer Angel]

Ooooold thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43634) related to the subject. :smallwink:
Eventually, it's a starting point to develope some consideration...

[Closak]

I prefer "Powerword: AGONY!" myself.

Of course, that's a homebrewed little critter...and epic level...

It's perfect for incapacitating or torturing people, sure, it can't kill you since it's specifically designed to keep you alive so you can suffer more, but you be on the ground rolling in agony so much that you be considered helpless, making it an easy thing to just slit your throat when you can't fight back.

...And it lasts until dispelled either by the caster or someone with a higher character level than the original caster...

[lsfreak]

No, it's not. Once you use it, your DM is free to use it on you. While I'm sure there's some non-PunPun 1st-level character that could survive that damage, I doubt it's the one that just cast PW:Pain. We quietly ignore its existence.

[PhoenixRivers]

No, it's not. Once you use it, your DM is free to use it on you. While I'm sure there's some non-PunPun 1st-level character that could survive that damage, I doubt it's the one that just cast PW:Pain. We quietly ignore its existence.

Actually, the spell is stoppable via a LOT of healing

What's bad is when it's sudden maximized and sudden extended. That's instagibbing.

[TheMadLinguist]

I'm pretty sure they accidentally switched it with power word: annoy, or whatever the name of that one is.

[Myou]

How is 3.5 damage a round that awful? The fighter can easily manage to average that much damage.

[TheMadLinguist]

How is 3.5 damage a round that awful? The fighter can easily manage to average that much damage.

Because it keeps going after the spellcaster is dead. A goblin sorcerer 1 has a decent chance of causing the death of two or three party members without a save or anything.

[Evil the Cat]

I always considered this to be one of the worst designed spells ever. At level 1, it's game breaking; by level 7 it's garbage.

[Myou]

Because it keeps going after the spellcaster is dead. A goblin sorcerer 1 has a decent chance of causing the death of two or three party members without a save or anything.

Oh, yeah, against the players it's overpowered.
But that's utterly meaningless - the DM doesn't need to powergame to begin with.

In the player's hands, the spell is no big deal, thus it's not a problem.

[Evil the Cat]

This isn't a new conversation, Linky (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43634)

[senrath]

Already linked earlier in the thread.

[Evil the Cat]

Wow, I fail. I read the thread, but somehow missed the second post?

Stupid Nat. 1 Spot check.

[PhoenixRivers]

Wow, I fail. I read the thread, but somehow missed the second post?

Stupid Nat. 1 Spot check.

Indeed, friend (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0003.html).

[Saph]

It's one of those spells you never, ever use as a player in the hope that if you don't draw attention to it, the DM won't use it either. :smallwink:

[Olo Demonsbane]

What's worse is that the Kobold babies that took the Draconic rite of Ascension (IIRC) can cast a 1st level spell once per day in exchange for 1 hp. Hmmm, CR 1/3, really?

[TheMadLinguist]

Oh, yeah, against the players it's overpowered.
But that's utterly meaningless - the DM doesn't need to powergame to begin with.

In the player's hands, the spell is no big deal, thus it's not a problem.

I cast the spell and run away with expeditious retreat.

The fact that you can guarantee a kill against any cr appropriate monster without it having any chance of avoiding death is the issue.

[Thurbane]

Combine with the Bane Magic feat to boost the damage to 3d6 per round (against a specific creature type).

[Divide by Zero]

What's worse is that the Kobold babies that took the Draconic rite of Ascension (IIRC) can cast a 1st level spell once per day in exchange for 1 hp. Hmmm, CR 1/3, really?

As if kobolds weren't broken enough already. There's a reason they're the leaders of the humanoid monster world in my setting.

[BobVosh]

I cast the spell and run away with expeditious retreat.

The fact that you can guarantee a kill against any cr appropriate monster without it having any chance of avoiding death is the issue.

And you used your only two spells for the day. Now what?

[Mastikator]

By the name of the spell it would make a lot more sense if it dealt non-lethal damage. Or did the same thing as symbol of pain.:smallconfused:

[PhoenixRivers]

And you used your only two spells for the day. Now what?

Let the other 3 party members handle the next 3 challenges, as you just solo'd the first?

[TheMadLinguist]

And you used your only two spells for the day. Now what?

I'm a sorcerer. I can cast two more.

[term1nally s1ck]

At Level 1, where most enemies will die to it in 2-3 rounds, and only hit once every 3-4 rounds...it's pretty good.

[Escheton]

so...how does this work with the fell line of metamagics?
it's even more broken then combining it with thunderclap right?

[PhoenixRivers]

I'm a sorcerer. I can cast two more.

Skeletons would be your worst nightmare. Even the crossbow would suck vs them.

[Iceforge]

Now, I am not sure this is entirely RAW, so someone can most likely correct me if I am wrong, but if your GM plays the NPCs as standard characters who goes unconscious at 0 hit points and die at -10, then wouldn't Power Word Pain just reduce them to negatives and then stop working, seeing how it is a mind-affecting spell, which, as far as I know, stops working the moment the subject pass out?

Sure, it means they have to be lucky and stabilize or have someone make a heal check on them, but not really an unavoidable death if I am correct

[Eldariel]

Skeletons would be your worst nightmare. Even the crossbow would suck vs them.

Which is why you keep a Sling around. And a Scroll of Grease.

[trmptfnfr]

Which is why you keep party members around
Fix'd.

I knew there was some use for non-casters. :smallwink:

[Eldariel]

Fix'd.

I knew there was some use for non-casters. :smallwink:

I prefer Slings. They don't eat my money or XP. Indeed, Slings are FREE!

[PhoenixRivers]

Now, I am not sure this is entirely RAW, so someone can most likely correct me if I am wrong, but if your GM plays the NPCs as standard characters who goes unconscious at 0 hit points and die at -10, then wouldn't Power Word Pain just reduce them to negatives and then stop working, seeing how it is a mind-affecting spell, which, as far as I know, stops working the moment the subject pass out?

Sure, it means they have to be lucky and stabilize or have someone make a heal check on them, but not really an unavoidable death if I am correct

Mind affecting abilities work on unconscious creatures, though certain effects which depend on the ability to act may not work. Examples would be Dominate. Yes, you can dominate an unconscious foe, but they won't follow any action they are physically incapable of performing.

[Rainbownaga]

A warmage that sacrafices his level 2 eclectic learning spell for this gets a fun no-save-just-die against creatures with 50 hp or less (since edge adds to damage per round, you're likely to do almost or more than double the base damage with this spell).

Of course by the time you actually get access to the spell it's lost a lot of its sparkle and you've still got the "run away and twiddle thumbs for 5 rounds" issue.

I should also mention that this is a similar issue for the level 1 warlock's ability to summon bats- unless the creature can heal with spells or skills it dies... eventually.

[term1nally s1ck]

Still, the bats are harder to direct. The Pain is unavoidable.

Huh. New catchphrase for my next character...

"You fools thought you could run....the PAIN is unavoidable."

[Saph]

Yeah, and every kobold in the dungeon can now kill your 1st-level character with a standard action. Good luck getting to level 2.

Really, it's one of those spells that you just don't want to exist as a player. It gives a very minimal benefit for your PC (since most monsters only last a few rounds anyway), but it's almost guaranteed death when used against you.

[Rainbownaga]

Still, the bats are harder to direct. The Pain is unavoidable.


Not really, As a standard action you can create bats in any 4 adjoining squares which will immediately kill anything in those squares and then disappear since there's no point maintaining concentration: my group were calling it broken at level 4 and it's available at level 5.

Admittedly if the bats don't want to eat whatever you summoned them at and you're the nearest target, there can be problems.

[Critical]

No, Silent Image is the best first level spell ever. Remember, it's a role-playing game. Use your creativity.

[Caliphbubba]

What book is Power Word: Pain from?

[term1nally s1ck]

Races of the Dragon, iirc.

[Irreverent Fool]

It's one of those spells you never, ever use as a player in the hope that if you don't draw attention to it, the DM won't use it either. :smallwink:

Along with celerity, shivering touch, ray of stupidity, witherlimb... My group refers to these sorts of things in terms of a cold war. They know normal save-or-dies are fair game because, as a DM, I'm unlikely to use them on the players because it's Just No Fun, but when they threaten to one-shot climactic encounters with spells they know are overpowered, enemies may "break the truce" and begin to do the same.

As for power word: pain, it's been said, but against monsters, it's hardly overpowered. Even with a riddled dragonwrought kobold warmage, there are other ways to do similar amounts of damage to NPCs... NPCs who are supposed to be killed by the players anyway.

obnoxious
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