Yakk
2010-05-01, 05:50 PM
There is a problem in 4e where, at high levels, monster damage output ceases to be scary.
This is my attempt to make a system that makes high level monster damage output sufficient to scare high level players.
Here is the backing mathematics. Skip if uninterested.
I started out with the idea that a threatening monster should be able to take down a target with defender-level HP and low enough defences to be hit 50% of the time in about 8 rounds.
Anything below that, and the monster really isn't a damage dealing threat.
This gave me the equation (Level+4)*3 average DPR.
I then turned this into a damage per hit.
Soldiers have higher defences and higher to hit, so they should do less damage on average (even after taking into the higher to hit).
Skirmishers and Artillery generate threat through damage.
Controllers have more status effects, so should do less damage (probably similar to soldier damage per hit).
Brutes need a huge boost to damage per hit, because of their low accuracy, in order to keep up with skirmisher damage.
Next, to make an easy system, I need to account for encounter powers (and the like).
So I split the damage budget between at-will and encounter powers. To keep soldiers at-will from being a joke, soldiers get a lower budget for encounter powers.
I made the system point-based, with a chart to turn points into damage expressions. Instead of the DMG "group 3 levels together", I grouped the levels geometrically -- each group of levels is about 25%-30% more damage per hit than the previous one. (Player HP doesn't go up as fast at higher levels, so damage expressions don't have to evolve as fast).
Using some math mojo, I worked out that elite damage output should be about 1.5 times normal monster damage output. However, elite brutes shouldn't get quite so much, and soldiers need a little extra, to keep things sane.
Solos end up at 3.0 times normal monster damage output, after accounting for improved focus fire from a solo compared to a normal. Once again, Soldiers get more than 3x, and Brutes less, to keep things sane. (in effect, the extra 2.0 should be closer to baseline monster damage, instead of solo/brute).
For area damage, if you compare what happens when fighting 5 opponents and concentrate fire compared to doing area damage, damage on secondary targets is worth about 50% of concentrated fire damage. And as that is easy math...
[4e] Monster Damage Points -- a system
This is an attempt to make an easy to use monster damage balancing system.
Each number gets a number of points. Soldiers get fewer, Brutes get more.
You spend these points on buying up your standard attack, or buying encounter attack powers.
Normal:
At-Will Encounter Budget
Soldier: Low 4-9 pts
Controller: Low 14-20 pts
Artillery: Medium 9-15 pts
Skirmisher: Medium 9-15 pts
Brute: High 15-20 pts
Elite:
At-Will Encounter Budget
Soldier: Medium 10-20 pts
Controller: Medium 25-35 pts
Artillery: High 20-30 pts
Skirmisher: High 20-30 pts
Brute: OMG 30-40 pts
Solo:
At-Will Encounter Budget
Soldier: OMG 40-70 pts
Controller: Med 65-95 pts
Artillery: OMG 60-90 pts
Skirmisher: OMG 60-90 pts
Brute: Lim. Low 80-110 pts
Damage Expressions:
Level
At-Will Damage Expressions
Adjective: Wiff Low Medium High OMG
Value: 2 3 4 5 6
Level
1 1d4 1d6 1d6+2 1d8+2 1d10+2
2-3 1d4+1 1d6+2 1d6+3 1d8+4 1d10+4
4-5 1d4+2 1d6+3 1d8+4 1d10+5 1d12+6
6-8 1d6+2 1d8+4 1d10+6 1d12+7 2d8+8
9-12 1d8+3 1d10+5 1d12+8 2d6+11 3d6+11
13-16 1d10+4 2d6+7 2d8+10 2d10+12 3d8+14
17-22 1d12+5 2d8+9 3d6+13 3d8+16 3d10+19
23-29 2d6+8 2d10+11 3d8+17 3d10+21 4d10+23
30-38 2d8+10 3d8+15 3d12+19 4d10+25 4d12+31
Rule of Controller Defender
Thumb: Healing Surge Healing Surge
Limited Damage Expressions
Adjective: Low Medium High OMG
Value: 8 10 12 15
Level
1 2d6+3 2d6+5 2d8+6 2d10+8
2-3 2d6+6 2d8+7 2d10+9 3d8+10
4-5 2d8+8 2d10+10 3d8+11 4d8+14
6-8 2d10+11 3d8+14 4d8+15 4d10+19
9-12 3d8+15 4d8+18 4d12+17 5d12+22
13-16 4d8+19 4d12+20 5d10+28 10d6+34
17-22 4d10+25 5d12+26 10d6+35 8d10+44
23-29 5d12+28 6d10+42 10d8+45 10d10+57
30-38 10d6+41 10d8+50 10d10+59 15d10+60
Rule of Controller Defender Controller
Thumb: Bloodied Bloodied Dead
Each point above represents roughly the same amount of damage. The amount of damage it concretely represents varies with monster level.
Point ranges for encounter damage points:
Use the lower end of the point range if you are at the lower end of your level range, and the upper end if you are at the upper end. If you are the middle... guess.
Creatures with an abnormal amount of annoyance abilities should have even more points deducted, or at-will damage lowered.
Boosting/lowering at-will attack:
To move from Low to Medium damage, it costs 6 encounter damage points -- or, you regain 6 by dropping from Medium to Low.
In essence, take the difference in value, and multiply by 6.
If you gain a second at-will attack that can be used with the first, you have to pay 6 times the value for it (ie, a 1/round minor attack, or an attack that does a double standard attack). Generally, you only pay for the "best" standard at-will attack (the others are free). So two "low-at-will" attacks that can be done on the same standard action is as good as an "OMG" at-will attack (as 3+3=6).
High end monsters (elites and solos, and sometimes brutes) should avoid having a basic attack that is as strong as their strongest at-will.
Buying per-encounter uses of a power:
For each time (estimated) you use a power in a fight, it costs the "Value" row in encounter damage points. Powers that are standard actions get a discount equal to the value of the at-will power it would displace.
An encounter power with recharge 6 is x2 cost, with recharge 45 is x3 cost.
Area/Multi-target powers:
Each target past the first in a power adds +50% to the power's cost. For area powers, estimate how many targets it would attack.
Auto-target powers:
If the powers target is out of control of the monster, only charge 75% of the cost.
Status Effects:
Controllers should have lots of them, soldiers should have some kind of stickiness. If a monster is a status effect beast... reduce its budget and damage abilities. Note that higher level monsters are expected to have more status effects 'free of charge'.
Alpha Strike Issues:
Avoid too much alpha strike. If you make a monster with wiff damage output and all of its damage in a single target non-situational encounter attack power, it will be too strong. Ideally damage should be spread out over multiple rounds.
Attacks and Defences:
Use DMG guidelines.
Each +1/-1 off the guidelines increases the damage value of the power by +/- 10%.
A monster with +1 AC over the standard for the role, or an average NAD 1 point higher, should have about 1/2 a level taken off it damage-wise.
This is my attempt to make a system that makes high level monster damage output sufficient to scare high level players.
Here is the backing mathematics. Skip if uninterested.
I started out with the idea that a threatening monster should be able to take down a target with defender-level HP and low enough defences to be hit 50% of the time in about 8 rounds.
Anything below that, and the monster really isn't a damage dealing threat.
This gave me the equation (Level+4)*3 average DPR.
I then turned this into a damage per hit.
Soldiers have higher defences and higher to hit, so they should do less damage on average (even after taking into the higher to hit).
Skirmishers and Artillery generate threat through damage.
Controllers have more status effects, so should do less damage (probably similar to soldier damage per hit).
Brutes need a huge boost to damage per hit, because of their low accuracy, in order to keep up with skirmisher damage.
Next, to make an easy system, I need to account for encounter powers (and the like).
So I split the damage budget between at-will and encounter powers. To keep soldiers at-will from being a joke, soldiers get a lower budget for encounter powers.
I made the system point-based, with a chart to turn points into damage expressions. Instead of the DMG "group 3 levels together", I grouped the levels geometrically -- each group of levels is about 25%-30% more damage per hit than the previous one. (Player HP doesn't go up as fast at higher levels, so damage expressions don't have to evolve as fast).
Using some math mojo, I worked out that elite damage output should be about 1.5 times normal monster damage output. However, elite brutes shouldn't get quite so much, and soldiers need a little extra, to keep things sane.
Solos end up at 3.0 times normal monster damage output, after accounting for improved focus fire from a solo compared to a normal. Once again, Soldiers get more than 3x, and Brutes less, to keep things sane. (in effect, the extra 2.0 should be closer to baseline monster damage, instead of solo/brute).
For area damage, if you compare what happens when fighting 5 opponents and concentrate fire compared to doing area damage, damage on secondary targets is worth about 50% of concentrated fire damage. And as that is easy math...
[4e] Monster Damage Points -- a system
This is an attempt to make an easy to use monster damage balancing system.
Each number gets a number of points. Soldiers get fewer, Brutes get more.
You spend these points on buying up your standard attack, or buying encounter attack powers.
Normal:
At-Will Encounter Budget
Soldier: Low 4-9 pts
Controller: Low 14-20 pts
Artillery: Medium 9-15 pts
Skirmisher: Medium 9-15 pts
Brute: High 15-20 pts
Elite:
At-Will Encounter Budget
Soldier: Medium 10-20 pts
Controller: Medium 25-35 pts
Artillery: High 20-30 pts
Skirmisher: High 20-30 pts
Brute: OMG 30-40 pts
Solo:
At-Will Encounter Budget
Soldier: OMG 40-70 pts
Controller: Med 65-95 pts
Artillery: OMG 60-90 pts
Skirmisher: OMG 60-90 pts
Brute: Lim. Low 80-110 pts
Damage Expressions:
Level
At-Will Damage Expressions
Adjective: Wiff Low Medium High OMG
Value: 2 3 4 5 6
Level
1 1d4 1d6 1d6+2 1d8+2 1d10+2
2-3 1d4+1 1d6+2 1d6+3 1d8+4 1d10+4
4-5 1d4+2 1d6+3 1d8+4 1d10+5 1d12+6
6-8 1d6+2 1d8+4 1d10+6 1d12+7 2d8+8
9-12 1d8+3 1d10+5 1d12+8 2d6+11 3d6+11
13-16 1d10+4 2d6+7 2d8+10 2d10+12 3d8+14
17-22 1d12+5 2d8+9 3d6+13 3d8+16 3d10+19
23-29 2d6+8 2d10+11 3d8+17 3d10+21 4d10+23
30-38 2d8+10 3d8+15 3d12+19 4d10+25 4d12+31
Rule of Controller Defender
Thumb: Healing Surge Healing Surge
Limited Damage Expressions
Adjective: Low Medium High OMG
Value: 8 10 12 15
Level
1 2d6+3 2d6+5 2d8+6 2d10+8
2-3 2d6+6 2d8+7 2d10+9 3d8+10
4-5 2d8+8 2d10+10 3d8+11 4d8+14
6-8 2d10+11 3d8+14 4d8+15 4d10+19
9-12 3d8+15 4d8+18 4d12+17 5d12+22
13-16 4d8+19 4d12+20 5d10+28 10d6+34
17-22 4d10+25 5d12+26 10d6+35 8d10+44
23-29 5d12+28 6d10+42 10d8+45 10d10+57
30-38 10d6+41 10d8+50 10d10+59 15d10+60
Rule of Controller Defender Controller
Thumb: Bloodied Bloodied Dead
Each point above represents roughly the same amount of damage. The amount of damage it concretely represents varies with monster level.
Point ranges for encounter damage points:
Use the lower end of the point range if you are at the lower end of your level range, and the upper end if you are at the upper end. If you are the middle... guess.
Creatures with an abnormal amount of annoyance abilities should have even more points deducted, or at-will damage lowered.
Boosting/lowering at-will attack:
To move from Low to Medium damage, it costs 6 encounter damage points -- or, you regain 6 by dropping from Medium to Low.
In essence, take the difference in value, and multiply by 6.
If you gain a second at-will attack that can be used with the first, you have to pay 6 times the value for it (ie, a 1/round minor attack, or an attack that does a double standard attack). Generally, you only pay for the "best" standard at-will attack (the others are free). So two "low-at-will" attacks that can be done on the same standard action is as good as an "OMG" at-will attack (as 3+3=6).
High end monsters (elites and solos, and sometimes brutes) should avoid having a basic attack that is as strong as their strongest at-will.
Buying per-encounter uses of a power:
For each time (estimated) you use a power in a fight, it costs the "Value" row in encounter damage points. Powers that are standard actions get a discount equal to the value of the at-will power it would displace.
An encounter power with recharge 6 is x2 cost, with recharge 45 is x3 cost.
Area/Multi-target powers:
Each target past the first in a power adds +50% to the power's cost. For area powers, estimate how many targets it would attack.
Auto-target powers:
If the powers target is out of control of the monster, only charge 75% of the cost.
Status Effects:
Controllers should have lots of them, soldiers should have some kind of stickiness. If a monster is a status effect beast... reduce its budget and damage abilities. Note that higher level monsters are expected to have more status effects 'free of charge'.
Alpha Strike Issues:
Avoid too much alpha strike. If you make a monster with wiff damage output and all of its damage in a single target non-situational encounter attack power, it will be too strong. Ideally damage should be spread out over multiple rounds.
Attacks and Defences:
Use DMG guidelines.
Each +1/-1 off the guidelines increases the damage value of the power by +/- 10%.
A monster with +1 AC over the standard for the role, or an average NAD 1 point higher, should have about 1/2 a level taken off it damage-wise.