[3.5/PF] Augment Summoning

[GoatToucher]

Augment Summoning is a nice little feat, but what's with the requirement of Spell Focus: Conjuring? Do any conjuring spells even require/allow a save?

[KurtKatze]

there are some in the SpellCompendium. Mostly singletarget to negate ability dmg. they are not so hot ^^ In most cases enemies won't be allowed to save so you really don't need it.

[Doc Roc]

There's actually a bunch that have saves, such as most of the orb spells and a good few cloud spells.

[olelia]

One word...Glitterdust

[Greenish]

Just from SRD sorc/wiz spells: Grease, Glitterdust, Web, Sepia Snake Sigil, Stinking Cloud, Cloudkill, Lesser Planar Binding, Planar Binding, Incendiary Cloud, Greater Planar Binding and (some uses of) Trap the Soul allow a save.

Many of those are best in the class spells for their level.

[Godskook]

On my current 4th level conjurer(6th level total):
-Wall of Smoke
-Grease
-Mount
-Benign Transposition
-Summon Monster 1
-Glitterdust
-Fog Cloud

So 3/7 of my spells allow saves, and I'm finding that the ones that allow the saves are actually more useful in my situations.

The weird thing isn't if conjurations allow saves(a lot do), but that a feat that has nothing to do with saves requires another feat that is only useful to spells with saves.

[Doc Roc]

My experience has been that it's more a "Don't throw me in the briarpatch" moment.

[Godskook]

My experience has been that it's more a "Don't throw me in the briarpatch" moment.

Eh? I don't follow....

[Doc Roc]

Reference to an old(? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Br%27er_Rabbit)) fairytale.

[Darrin]

Augment Summoning is a nice little feat, but what's with the requirement of Spell Focus: Conjuring? Do any conjuring spells even require/allow a save?

You can skip the prereq by taking the Planar Touchstone feat, linking to the Catalogues of Enlightenment, and choosing the domain power of the Dragon Below domain (Eberron Campaign Setting), which grants Augment Summoning as a bonus feat. Specialist Conjurers can also swap Scribe Scroll for Augment Summoning per the optional rules in Unearthed Arcana.

Unfortunately, all of the best PrCs that focus on conjuration/summoning require Spell Focus: Conjuration... so even if you manage to skip it, you may lock yourself out of Thaumaturgist, Master Specialist, or Malconvoker.

[Greenish]

Reference to an old(? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Br%27er_Rabbit)) fairytale.Even being familiar with Brer Rabbit, I can't really see how it applies to this situation. Spell Focus: Conjuration doesn't affect summoning spells, yet is a prerequirement for Augment Summoning, which only affects summoning.

Brer Rabbit wanted to get away, so getting thrown into the briar patch was advantageous to him: if you want stronger summons, higher DCs for other Conjuration spells don't do much.

[Godskook]

Reference to an old(? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Br%27er_Rabbit)) fairytale.

I'm familiar with the fairy tale, or at least with a newer version that kept the important bits referenced here. Grew up with it, actually. Still have no clue how that applies.

[Koury]

In response to what I think was actually being asked, yes, most [Calling] spells have saves.

[Doc Roc]

But there's no mechanic that means you can't use the other conjuration spells, which you just boosted. It's much better than most pre-req feats.

[Escheton]

first you focus on the school that summons stuff. Then you get so good at it your summons rock.
Then you go uttercold and have a "wall of wolf " thats a better lockdown damage fighter then the lockdown damage fighter.

[Eldariel]

If it wasn't clear yet, Conjuration has a crapton of spells with saves. Quick list:
- Grease
- Web
- Glitterdust
- Stinking Cloud
- Cloudkill
- (Wall of Stone)
- Planar Bindings (yes, it's convenient to have higher save DC so getting this off requires less castings; though it's so broken I wouldn't)
- Plane Shift

For good, offensive Core-spells (outside Planar Binding) you can use in ways that grant saves. Especially on low levels, SF: Conj is one of the best to have. It doesn't hurt later on either, but yeah, it's a bit weird mechanics-wise that you need it for Augment Summoning.

The idea, though, is that SF: Conj means the character has studied Conjuration a lot and thus knows how to enhance his summoning spells. It makes sense and as a summoner is a great secondary controller since Wizards tend to be versatile, it's quite convenient too.