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OverdrivePrime
2010-05-02, 10:32 AM
Hey all, I'm starting a new game for my f2f group. The setting is similar to Hungary or Poland in the late stone age or early bronze age.

I plan on using the Shadowrun 4 system, but obviously I'll strip out all the cyber stuff and biotech. I'm also going to completely remove the magic - at least for the early stages of the game.

Can anyone think of any major hurdles that I might face with this system/setting set up?

OverdrivePrime
2010-05-05, 07:09 AM
So, I added Polearms and Slings as their own active skills instead of having them be a exotic weapons, and replaced the Firearms Group with the Ranged Weapon Group, which consists of Archery, Thrown and Slings.

I had the most difficulty with Resources, which I've tried to rewrite. I'm highly open to any suggestions here:


Resources
I'm completely redoing how resources are measured for this game, and will probably redo it again many times. In an economy based on barter, favor and other highly flexible and intangible factors, wealth becomes trickier to get a firm grip on. For the time being, I'm measuring wealth in levels, each in increments of 5 BP (Build Points). If there isn't an entry for your level of build points (15, lets say) assume it's a combination of the two entries it's in between.

0 BP - Your character is something of an outcast and has almost nothing in the way of possessions or influence. You're likely wandering around naked but for the most rudimentary of hides draped around the important parts, and you have only the most basic of tools. Others likely regard you as a complete savage and outcast. Your hygiene is probably terrible and your mom pretends she doesn't know you.

5 BP - You have a place to sleep - probably in a small, cramped space somewhere, but at least it's usually dry. You have some roughly worn clothes and some simple articles that you've probably made yourself from wood, stone and hide. You don't have much to offer in terms of material goods.

10 BP - You probably live with your extended family and wear simple clothes made by someone who loves you. You've got access to some decent tools and equipment and may even have some simple decorative items, like a woven bracelet or a necklace made from polished stone and leather. Your weapons, if you have any, are probably made of wood or stone.

20 BP - You're pretty well off. You probably live with your extended family, but have well-made clothes that someone gave you or you were able to trade for. You may have some equipment made out of good metal (copper, usually), maybe even traded for a bow and some arrows. You have access to some attractive jewelry made of cheap metals like copper or tin.

30 BP - Others envy your prosperity. You probably still live with your extended family. You have very well made clothes and ready access to some sort of resource that other people are willing to trade for, such as wool, food or crafted items. You may have access to one or two pieces of equipment made from bronze, and probably have a few things made of iron or copper. Iron is considerably softer than bronze and prone to corrosion, but it's still good as a heavy bludgeon, or a knife that has to be constantly protected from the elements.

40 BP - You're probably the richest person in the village. You've got nice clothes, a spacious place to live (probably with your extended family) and can trade for pretty much anything you want. Either through skill or luck you have access to plenty of resources that other people want - maybe your family manages and defends the local copper mine. You likely have a few good quality items made from bronze, and some jewelry made from gold or silver.

50 BP - You are stupidly wealthy, probably the richest person anyone has heard of for hundreds of miles. Maybe you're the local high priest of fertility who happens to have a lot of business savvy, or maybe you are the only person in the area who has access to ultra-sharp obsidian and the know-how to fashion it into weapons. This level of wealth is exceedingly unlikely.

mikeejimbo
2010-05-05, 08:51 AM
Not that I'm saying it's a bad idea, I'm just curious, really, but why did you choose Shadowrun 4 to run a Bronze Age game?

Lost Demiurge
2010-05-05, 09:17 AM
Hm... Shadowrun's a pretty freakin' deadly system. Still, with guns removed from the equation, your players will have an easier time of it. Just be cautious about throwing them up against tough monsters, or even hordes of little ones.

Also, I wouldn't make archaic armor too effective. A suit of plate should probably be around a 6 or 7 bonus to soak rolls, maximum.

I've often thought that Shadowrun 4th would work just fine for plain fantasy. It's simple, fast, and you have to think about your approach to various problems... Just hacking through things tends to get you dead or spending more resources for gain that you could've got easily with an alternate method.

Ooh, here's a thought... Don't ditch cyber and bioware entirely. Have it represent pacts with spirits or more alien beings. So you basically can bargain bits of your essence away to feed powerful entities who grant you limited favor in exchange... So Wired Reflexes becomes a pact with an air demon to move faster than the winds... A sleep regulator becomes a pact with the lord of dreams to send you only refreshing dreams... That kind of thing.

Of course, you've only got so much essence to go around. And the marks on your soul from where they altered you prevent you from using magic quite so easily... Yeah, I'll have to do this at some point.

OverdrivePrime
2010-05-05, 10:42 PM
Thanks for the input, guys. I went with SR4 for all of the reasons that Lost Demiurge mentioned, plus it really is my favorite system. Without the Mayrix and drones and all that, it really is a system that's surprisingly well-suited for medieval fantasy (or similar).

Just ran my first game of this tonight- it took all four characters to hunt down and slay a 'mountain demon' (think of a cross between a bear and a smilodon) in order to rescue a pair of children the beast had taken. The game went well, the players played smart, and no one died horribly. Very successful for a first game.

I really like Lost Demiurge's idea about swapping cyberware for pacts with otherworldly forces. Very cool ideas.

With materials, I'm having fun thinking if the advantages and drawbacks of various primitive items. Bronze equipment is a little heavy but performs well and is hugely expensive. Copper items don't tend to hold an edge and can bend when you glitch. Obsidian edges would get armor penetration against non-metallic armor, but can chip or shatter on a glitch.

Any other ideas for materials?

Lost Demiurge
2010-05-06, 10:33 AM
Don't forget wood and stone. How about these?

Stone does an extra 1 or so of damage due to weight, but it can't be repaired if broken. So if it glitches and breaks or gets damaged, it STAYS damaged. Also it's hard to work, costs more, and weighs a ton... Maybe minimum strength requirements for larger weapons?

Wooden weapons are cheap and easy to make, but they have no AP potential, and in fact give 2-3 soak dice to a foe (AP +2) when they strike. Wooden weapons just don't have the weight or sharpness to compete without serious strength behind them.

Note that a wooden spear with a bronze tip would count as a bronze spear, for these purposes.

Anyways, I'm glad you like my idea for 'ware reflavoring... Let's see, what else works...

Oh! Here we go. It'd take a little work, but you could cut down and reflavor hacking as animal mastery. Have the various programs representing ways to deal with taming or convincing animals that you're no threat. That way, you could play a beastmaster with a bear companion (AKA Drone), or one who commanded a pack of wolves.

And you could take it one step farther... Have medicine men who go on spirit quests and put their souls into animals (Helloooo, rigging!), and go forth to scout and harry their tribe's foes.

Hm... So a rough conversion chart of programs to tricks might be...

Stealth ---> Harmlessness (Keep the animal from attacking you while you're working.)
Analyze ---> Analyze (Size up the critter, figure out its strengths and weaknesses.)
Browse ---> Hunt (Lets you find specific animals, or figure out how a local ecosystem works.)
Exploit ---> Impress (Try to befriend the beast through kindness, or calm an angry animal.)
Spoof ---> Confuse (Try to befuddle the beast and make it pliable to you, or waste an action.)
Attack ---> Intimidate (Try to scare the beast into submission, or get it to back off.)
Firewall ---> Confidence (How much mental stress you can take from the animal's resistance.)
Jacking Out ---> Submission (Show the animal you're not a threat by giving up.)

That'd be pretty much all you'd need for a beastmaster. So, you'd use your Hunt trick to find the animal you're looking for. Once you did, the three key tricks would be Impress, Confuse, and Intimidate. Each animal would be better at resisting some of these and weaker at others... You could size them up to learn these... And also any natural attacks, noteworthy attributes, and the like. So you could tame the critter by racking up successes... All the while using your harmlessness to keep it from eating your face. Of course if it resists you strongly enough, it shatters your Confidence, and you can't do anything with it from that point on.

A little wonky, but I like it. :)

Ashtagon
2010-05-06, 10:45 AM
Stone does an extra 1 or so of damage due to weight, but it can't be repaired if broken. So if it glitches and breaks or gets damaged, it STAYS damaged. Also it's hard to work, costs more, and weighs a ton... Maybe minimum strength requirements for larger weapons?

Stone actually weighs a bit less than half the equivalent volume of iron. No reason it should gain any bonus based on sheer mass.

Really, as a construction material for hand weapons, it is inferior to metals in just about every way possible.

Lost Demiurge
2010-05-06, 11:45 AM
Stone actually weighs a bit less than half the equivalent volume of iron. No reason it should gain any bonus based on sheer mass.

Really, as a construction material for hand weapons, it is inferior to metals in just about every way possible.

Agreed, it's inferior to metal in most ways, but the way I see it, the main advantage of metal is that you need less of it to be as effective. So a stone axe as effective as a metal axe is gonna need a lot more material to compete.

Doesn't matter. I could be 100% wrong, and you could be right. But let's not get sidetracked by real life physics... Got any additional materials or advice for the OP?

Oh, and don't forget bone. All the weaknesses of wood, but with the slight advantage that you look more intimidating while using it. So a minor bonus to your intimidate roll against sentients while wielding a bone weapon, or wearing bone armor.