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Abd al-Azrad
2010-05-02, 01:24 PM
Good day to the Forum!

So I have been toying with a character concept in a RP-heavy game in which I play. My current character is well on the way to ideological conquest of a small bugbear tribe, and I'm considering bringing one of the more powerful warriors from said tribe to work as an alternate character (for those times I grow weary of playing a God and wish to actually get into the meat of a battle). Due to their rather high 3 humanoid Hit Dice and their +1 level adjustment, however, they make rather unoptimized choices for pretty much anything.

To summarize: 3d8 HD; +2 BAB; Fort, Ref and Will of +1, +3, +1; +4 Str, +2 Dex and Con, -2 Cha. And minor abilities like darkvision. Cost of four levels.

I've chosen to invest in ToB classes, primarily because I love ToB, secondarily because those racial HD actually would account for a bit of an Initiator Level boost and thus be worth something. However, it's an uphill battle: the 2 points of lost BAB, for instance, are a crippling problem when you think about all the many nice battlefield-control feats that have very specific BAB requirements (i.e. you are meant to take Robilar's Gambit at 12th level, but this guy has to wait 'til 15th).

My current idea was to bounce Crusader and Warblade, pick up Stormguard Warrior for AoO synergy and damage output, Thicket of Blades and Robilar's to rack up the AoOs, I'm sure you guys know the drill. But my feats are all out of alignment due to that loss of BAB. I'm wondering if I'm trying to do too much with the Warblade/Crusader crackdown combo, and if the Playground may have some more effective ideas.

TL:DR summary, how would you build a Bugbear warrior to make the most of its strengths and (noteworthy) weaknesses? ALL books, cheap combos, etc. are available, this is a game in which there are no holds barred; but take note that I personally can only handle so much cheese.

Greenish
2010-05-02, 01:27 PM
Maybe the tribe actually has other goblinoids too? :smallcool:

if they had adopted, say, a hobgoblin...

[Edit]: Are you using LA buyoffs? Getting the LA off means you only lose 1 BAB. If you're using fractional BAB, you could also dip one level in 3/4 BAB class without losing out, so a cleric to get a few devotions (travel and some other) and turning to feed them. Then you'd be (with LA buyoffs) ECL 4, BAB 3, IL 2.

Escheton
2010-05-02, 01:36 PM
second that. And make his a ruby knight vindicator. With a bloodstorm dip somewhere in there perhaps.

Abd al-Azrad
2010-05-02, 01:49 PM
I totally agree about the Bloodstorm dip, especially given our recent discussion on the hilarity of harpoons. I believe I can get my attack bonus almost arbitrarily high, and just hurl the bloody things without proficiency. A martial strike-fueled one would have an impossibly high Reflex DC to avoid.

RKV: Did not think of that, and it's a good idea. I must admit lack of sufficient knowledge on the devotions, however. Where are they from and how do they work?

Really enjoying the ideas thus far!

Greenish
2010-05-02, 01:58 PM
Handbook for dipping cleric 1. (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2773.0) Devotion feats can be gained by trading away domains (or, well, just picking them). They typically buff you as a swift action and are fueled by turning attempts. They're from Complete Champion, if my memory serves.


Now then, if you want some cheddar to your build: get undeads or something else to permamently level drain away some of those RHDs. Replace with class levels. Profit.

You have a wizard, I take it, who rules the tribe, so getting some controlled undead for a Rite of Passage shouldn't be too hard to justify.

Abd al-Azrad
2010-05-02, 02:02 PM
Gracious. BrilliantGameologists have a handbook for literally every possible build concept in D&D - and here I thought I was learned. Thanks for the link!

Runestar
2010-05-02, 08:45 PM
Assuming your DM lets you count racial HD towards initiator lv, you can add 1 class lv first to get an even number before tacking on martial adept lvs. This lets you immediately get 2nd lv maneuvers. A little slow, but there are still some generally useful ones such as mountain hammer or emerald razor.

This can mean bugbear4/crusader1/warbladeX, or bugbear4/warblade1/crusaderX.

As noted, you lose out in the bab and class features department, so my suggestion would be to simply be a straightforward and simple attacker. Forget about trying to fill in any of the fancy battlefield control roles. Simply pump your stats, move and whack. Your str makes up for the loss of bab somewhat, and you actually get a small damage boost out of it.

Glimbur
2010-05-02, 09:39 PM
Assuming your DM lets you count racial HD towards initiator lv, you can add 1 class lv first to get an even number before tacking on martial adept lvs. This lets you immediately get 2nd lv maneuvers. A little slow, but there are still some generally useful ones such as mountain hammer or emerald razor.

This can mean bugbear4/crusader1/warbladeX, or bugbear4/warblade1/crusaderX.

As noted, you lose out in the bab and class features department, so my suggestion would be to simply be a straightforward and simple attacker. Forget about trying to fill in any of the fancy battlefield control roles. Simply pump your stats, move and whack. Your str makes up for the loss of bab somewhat, and you actually get a small damage boost out of it.

Bugbear is 4 ECL but only 3 HD, so it would make sense to go Bugbear HD 3/Bugbear LA 1/ Fighter 1/ToB Class X if you want to not have to take 1st level maneuvers. I'm not sure which full BAB class makes the best one level dip... barbarian with Spirit Lion Totem from Complete Champion for Pounce is nice, Fighter for the feat is ok, ranger gets skills and the ability to use ranger wands, there are other classes you could dip for Will save or niche abilities.

Runestar
2010-05-02, 09:54 PM
Warblade1 does have some nice maneuvers such as moment of precise mind, sudden leap and steel wind. I assume the OP wants to simply splash in 1 rather than multiclass between both evenly (and assuming his DM is not enforcing the multiclass penalties).

Or he may also want to take martial study as many times as possible with his bugbear racial HD before actually taking martial adept lvs, so get more usable maneuvers. :smallbiggrin:

The Rabbler
2010-05-02, 09:59 PM
if you are planning on tripping, I'd suggest getting one level of factotum on there to even out the IL bonus from RHD and then start bouncing between crusader and warblade. Int synergy is your friend and factotum has a lot of it.

EDIT:

also, I'd suggest going crusader 4/warblade 2 to pick up the easiest/best of the class features before jumping into PrCs.

unless you want to bounce between them.

Draz74
2010-05-02, 11:43 PM
One level of Factotum does very little for Trip builds. You need 3 Factotum levels for that.

Akal Saris
2010-05-02, 11:52 PM
Gracious. BrilliantGameologists have a handbook for literally every possible build concept in D&D - and here I thought I was learned. Thanks for the link!

And I helped contribute to that one! :biggrin:

The Rabbler
2010-05-02, 11:52 PM
One level of Factotum does very little for Trip builds. You need 3 Factotum levels for that.

either one would be useful, though 3 levels would be more useful. I find that a factotum dip can only really hurt a casting class and adding it in to a melee build always helps (if only a little).

Lycanthromancer
2010-05-03, 12:02 AM
either one would be useful, though 3 levels would be more useful. I find that a factotum dip can only really hurt a casting class and adding it in to a melee build always helps (if only a little).Except in gestalt. Factotum is ALWAYS awesome in gestalt.

Or epic. Can't go wrong in epic, either.

The only time this doesn't apply is if you have crap for Int.