Gentlemanly Clothing in the Playground

[Fifty-Eyed Fred]

So, I do believe we had one of these threads about half a year ago, if I recall correctly, and I thought, "well, why not make a new one, old chap?"

Thus, I present to you a thread with which to discuss the ins and outs of gentlemanly clothing. From hats to waistcoats, ties to trousers, you may all debate and deliberate upon them here.

I'll begin: why on earth do most shops insist upon trying to sell me pre-tied bow ties? I understand why some, such as police officers, wear clip-on ties, but I am often frustrated by the fact that there are no self-tie bow ties in many retail outlets. If they can trust people to tie neckties on their own, why not bow ties?

[snoopy13a]

I don't know about England but the bow tie is not very popular in America. It is worn:

1) As formal wear (but this is become less common as "regular" ties are starting to surplant bow ties for weddings, proms, etc)

2) As part of the uniform for some service jobs (e.g. servers, casino dealers, etc)

3) A very small amount of men wear a bow tie in professional dress. Theorectically, it is just as professional as a "regular" tie but it comes across as a bit odd.

The vast majority of Americans do not know how to tie a bow tie and only rarely do so. Therefore, it makes sense to have most bow ties be pretied.

[skywalker]

I'll begin: why on earth do most shops insist upon trying to sell me pre-tied bow ties? I understand why some, such as police officers, wear clip-on ties, but I am often frustrated by the fact that there are no self-tie bow ties in many retail outlets. If they can trust people to tie neckties on their own, why not bow ties?

Yeah it's mainly a question of what sells. Most people don't know how, so they won't buy one. Not a question of trusting people, a question of "well, we can stock those self-tie bowties and wind up selling them on clearance, or we can use that space for something more appropriate." When you're shopping at a "formalwear store," most of those places market to kids who are only going to be wearing the thing one time, so of course they will be pre-tied, and frequently only in patterns to match the waistcoat/cummerbund offerings of the store.

But, I was shopping at Belk's yesterday and saw an absolutely astonishingly large selection of (self-tie) bowties for sale. You might look into that.

[drakir_nosslin]

I agree, the abomination that is pre-tied bow ties and ties should be removed from the earth altogether. It's not hard to learn how to tie one, and if you can't you shouldn't be allowed to wear one, it looks horrible.

Granted, bow tie isn't used that often nowadays, but when it is, it is even more important that it looks good.

And don't forget that if you use a pre-tied one, you can un-tie it at the end of the night and walk around with a glass of whiskey, a cigarette and an air of decadence and coolness. :smallcool:

[Froogleyboy]

I prefer bow ties over "regular" ones, but maybe that's just me.

[Mathis]

And don't forget that if you use a pre-tied one, you can un-tie it at the end of the night and walk around with a glass of whiskey, a cigarette and an air of decadence and coolness. :smallcool:

To me, this is what a tie does, without ever being untied. If I ever want to do a James Bond impersonation then sure I'll use a bow tie. Now I realize that this is a highly personal opinion, but I really do prefer ties over bow ties and I use them with both casual clothing, and with formal clothing. If formal enough, I'll accompany my suit with a vest and if possible my pocket watch.

The thing about ties is that I can get them in so many different colours and patterns without making them look, well slightly comical in appearance. Again I realize that this is a highly subjective opinion.

[Flickerdart]

I found a store (for anyone in Toronto, it's Courage My Love at Kensington Market) that sells awesome top and bowler hats...for ninety bucks. :smallfrown: They also have dress shirts with collars for cravats which is awesome, and a pile of cufflinks for hilariously cheap.

On a side note, it is absolutely impossible to find affordable vests (waistcoats for you Brits). This annoys me, even though I don't really need one, since I don't even own a suit.

On another side note, I abhor wide ties. They're annoying to tie, narrow ones are much less cumbersome and I think look better.

On a third side note, my watch movement cuff links fell apart. :smallfrown: I've tried contacting the seller, but it looks like I'm going to have to find an identical movement and glue it on the stud. Which means I'll need some old wristwatches to gut, which costs money, etc etc etc.

[Hazkali]

I have to admit that I'm a heathen who uses a pre-tied bow tie for my black-tie formal dinners at University. In my defence, though, that does seem to be fairly common, and outside of University I don't move in the sort of circles that wear black tie often1.

As for other gentlemanly clothing, nothing would please me more if I my wardrobe was entirely classic, and I could be mistaken for an extra from an episode of Poirot. However, it's not generally fashionable, I don't have the self-confidence to go so dramatically against the grain (I am a dedicated ignorer of cutting-edge or label fashion, however) and I don't have the wallet to go for it in a quality way.

My one regular concession for traditional fashion is my brown wool trilby. I don't wear it everywhere (if I know I'm going to have to take it off for most of my time, such as at the cinema or in a lecture) but I do wear it as often as I can.

1I have hypothesised that I was swapped at birth, my true parents being landed gentry, perhaps even part of the peerage, and that I was always supposed to live the life of the idle rich. This has not been borne out by any subsequent investigation.

[The White Lyre]

Nice idea for a topic!

I wear a suit every day (during the work-week) and have done so for four years. I think that as a young adult these are the years that will dictate my style for the rest of my life, because wearing formal attire is still new to me, and frankly, in ten years I won't care what make of suit or tie I'm wearing, or it's thread count...

There's a few things that stick out for me with the world of men's clothing that are terribly wrong and need to be fixed - but probably won't be, because we either don't realise what we're doing wrong, or feel insecure about expressing that we care how we dress.


Dress hats
All forms of dress hats are not appropriate for anyone under 35. If you happen to age slowly, 45. They are simply something that looks way too cheesy these days for a young person to wear effectively, without looking like a loon.

Rings
Everyone should probably take off their graduation rings and football (or any sports) rings. Unless there's a dinner that involves recognising these things, then please, they're way too tacky. The only rings a fashionable guy should wear is his wedding band, or in the event that he's single, a nice and subtle signet ring on the little finger. I've heard that this should be exclusive to the left hand, but I have no clue why :smallconfused:

Watches
Pocket watches. The same sad story as that of dress hats...they look horrible! Don't get me wrong, I wish I could look like some ritzy guy from the '20s with a fedora every day, but it's time to realise that was practically a century ago.

Since I've ruled out the coolest watches on earth, a nice gold or silver watch is a good thing to own. Keep all sorts of rocks off this, though! The type of metal is really preference, in my opinion. To my knowledge there is no event that only permits silver jewelry...

And if you're so inclined to be super traditional and classy, you should know that a leather-strapped watch is meant to be worn to the office, or to a formal event, while those big metal behemoths everyone has these days are reserved for the country club.

Timex's were never formal :smallwink:

Shoes
Classics are the best: no Aldo, please! They're just elf shoes in disguise. Wingtips are always nice, but there are others, too. Check shows like Mad Men, or watch Catch Me if You Can for ideas. Also, in The Aviator, watch for Di Caprio wearing tennis shoes. Very slick, that (to the country club only).

Suits
I have nothing really to say here - the cut depends on your build, and don't feel you have to pander to the Hugo Boss crowd and shorten your hems 'till you can see the tops of your socks. But I would like to say that this past year saw a few style of the two buttoned double-breasted suit emerge. I've always been a fan of the double-breasted*, though I'm afraid to say this won't be a lasting style, I don't think :smallsigh:

*No single buttons. They're loose and ugly.


Now, of course, for those of you in the Mafia, please disregard most of this. Include as many diamonds in your jewelry as possible, and have multiple rings on at once - all 18k. I mean, who'll respect you if you don't flash your money at least a bit! :smalltongue:

'Course, feel free to dispute anything I've said here. This is just a few things I felt needed addressing, all according to my own views.

[Flickerdart]

I like single-breasted cuts myself, for everything from suits to coats. The double-breasted cut looks kind of odd and stuffy.

[Tirian]

I agree, the abomination that is pre-tied bow ties and ties should be removed from the earth altogether. It's not hard to learn how to tie one, and if you can't you shouldn't be allowed to wear one, it looks horrible.

Granted, bow tie isn't used that often nowadays, but when it is, it is even more important that it looks good.

And don't forget that if you use a pre-tied one, you can un-tie it at the end of the night and walk around with a glass of whiskey, a cigarette and an air of decadence and coolness. :smallcool:

Word. For anyone who doesn't know, the knot is literally how you tie your shoes and it isn't rocket science to practice enough to get it "sit" properly on your neck. Just learn it. Also, for people who have trouble finding stores that sell them, it is a very small project if you have a sewing machine or know someone who does. That even gives you the opportunity to do something mildly more exotic than plain black ties (although I also take issue with the abomination that is people freewheeling with formal dress codes).

And I also completely agree with the suave factor of untying a bow tie in public. When you're wearing a tuxedo, the woman sitting across the table from you might not be able to decide if you look like James Bond or the waiter. But when the party is winding down and you reach up and pull on the tie and it unties instead of unclipping, that utterly tips the scales to James Bond.

[Kneenibble]

This thread makes me want to find a proper bowtie really badly.

I believe the trouble is, they're even more formal than a necktie and so unusual to see that they transcend formality and become almost clownish. Not every man could pull off a bowtie without that effect.


Course, feel free to dispute anything I've said here. This is just a few things I felt needed addressing, all according to my own views.

What country are you from, out of curiosity? Boringia?

You'll find very little sympathy around here for your despite of young men in hats, and even less from me about rings and watches (although grad & sports rings, fine).

[Jack Squat]

You should really clarify that it's like tying your shoes with the common bow knot, seeing as how some people are taught to tie shoes with a square/reef knot or granny knot.

Speaking of knots, does anyone know where a list of differing tie knots can be found? There were a few I wanted to try out next time I have to wear a tie, but my link died.

Also, as far as shoes, I recommend everyone learn how to polish dress shoes, and keep them up. I've seen a good few people who look sharp save for their shoes, which still had the same finish they did in the store, I've even seen some guys who's shoes had no gloss whatsoever. This is fine for a workplace, but for formal settings nothing really beats a "mirror" shine.

[Xyk]

I sometimes wear fancy hats. I think they're often taken as worn ironically, due to my age (17) and my general un-fancy attire and attitude. I like them though. I think they look dashing. I wore my top hat to homecoming and fedora or bowler most places I go.

[Moff Chumley]

I'm rather partial to paisley tux jackets... :smallcool:

[Flickerdart]

Speaking of knots, does anyone know where a list of differing tie knots can be found? There were a few I wanted to try out next time I have to wear a tie, but my link died.

There's a book with 19 or something knots, and I believe Wikipedia has the Simple, Four in Hand, Half-Windsor and Windsor knots.

[Kneenibble]

Paisley is just fabulous period. :smallbiggrin:

I like this (http://www.tie-a-tie.net/) guy for tie knots, Jack Squat.
(although I suppose you wanted more than the basic four)

Hey, does one really light the surface of the shoe polish on fire to use it?

[The White Lyre]

What country are you from, out of curiosity? Boringia?

You'll find very little sympathy around here for your despite of young men in hats, and even less from me about rings and watches (although grad & sports rings, fine).

The hats I expect somebody to bring issue with, and the jewelry is obviously in the more traditional sense. There are ways to show some style without looking like a fool, though. I don't understand the need to wear a hat, though, because I find most who do keep it on indoors. It's a needless accessory that makes you look like your trying too hard. Check out these cufflinks: www.bittersweetsny.com (the snake ones, unfortunately there's no direct link). That's a subtle way to show some style, without looking like an idiot.

What do you have against the watches? Do you think pocket watches are particularly useful?

In normal clothing, i.e. out of formalwear, I still don't like dress hats, because now they're even more removed from any cohesiveness with the outfit...but rings and jewelry I love. Especially original pieces, cool skull rings, etc. On that same linked site there's an interesting diamond ring thats shaped like a worm.

[Froogleyboy]

Dress hats
All forms of dress hats are not appropriate for anyone under 35. If you happen to age slowly, 45. They are simply something that looks way too cheesy these days for a young person to wear effectively, without looking like a loon. Now, see, I have to disagree. Though I wouldn't go around sporting a top hat at my age, but when I'm dressed up, I love to wear a nice fedora. Though that is just my opinion


Rings
Everyone should probably take off their graduation rings and football (or any sports) rings. Unless there's a dinner that involves recognising these things, then please, they're way too tacky. The only rings a fashionable guy should wear is his wedding band, or in the event that he's single, a nice and subtle signet ring on the little finger. I've heard that this should be exclusive to the left hand, but I have no clue why :smallconfused: Personally, I think that if you have earned a ring, sport it off. My father, who is the classiest man I know, sports a graduation ring, a wedding band, and a free mason's ring.


Watches
Pocket watches. The same sad story as that of dress hats...they look horrible! Don't get me wrong, I wish I could look like some ritzy guy from the '20s with a fedora every day, but it's time to realise that was practically a century ago.

Since I've ruled out the coolest watches on earth, a nice gold or silver watch is a good thing to own. Keep all sorts of rocks off this, though! The type of metal is really preference, in my opinion. To my knowledge there is no event that only permits silver jewelry...

And if you're so inclined to be super traditional and classy, you should know that a leather-strapped watch is meant to be worn to the office, or to a formal event, while those big metal behemoths everyone has these days are reserved for the country club.

Timex's were never formal :smallwink: Once again, I must disagree. I agree with you on the matter of pocket watches, but I prefer a gold watch with some small stones, but nothing too flashy


Shoes
Classics are the best: no Aldo, please! They're just elf shoes in disguise. Wingtips are always nice, but there are others, too. Check shows like Mad Men, or watch Catch Me if You Can for ideas. Also, in The Aviator, watch for Di Caprio wearing tennis shoes. Very slick, that (to the country club only). I agree with you here, but I like to wear a nice set of Oxfords, but that's just me


Suits
I have nothing really to say here - the cut depends on your build, and don't feel you have to pander to the Hugo Boss crowd and shorten your hems 'till you can see the tops of your socks. But I would like to say that this past year saw a few style of the two buttoned double-breasted suit emerge. I've always been a fan of the double-breasted*, though I'm afraid to say this won't be a lasting style, I don't think :smallsigh:

*No single buttons. They're loose and ugly. Nothing to say here other then I agree with the comment on single buttons. They just don't look good. Period.
[/LIST]

[Jack Squat]

I like this (http://www.tie-a-tie.net/) guy for tie knots, Jack Squat.
(although I suppose you wanted more than the basic four)

I know all of those save the Pratt, but it looks pretty much just like the windsor, which I use.

I'll have to keep an eye out for that book.


Hey, does one really light the surface of the shoe polish on fire to use it?

I've heard of people doing that to get a "quick shine" for ROTC inspections, but I've never done it. All you need is polish, a cotton rag, and some water. Link to how I do it (http://www.wikihow.com/Give-Your-Boots-That-Military-Mirror-Shine) Of course, if starting out, I'll apply polish dry and then hit it with the brush until that sort of plateaus out, I was told that it's faster than the straight wet-polish method.

Of course, I was taught how to polish shoes by my grandfather, who was a DI in the Air Force back in they day, and apparently they were given rough-cut boots and had to polish them up, so the brush might not really be necessary for normal shoes. This might also be why I'm a little biased towards mirror shine.

[The White Lyre]

Now, see, I have to disagree. Though I wouldn't go around sporting a top hat at my age, but when I'm dressed up, I love to wear a nice fedora. Though that is just my opinion

Post above yours answers further on my opinion to this. Obviously, there's no set rule for this. ...Actually there is: hats are dressy and good. It's just my opinion that they're outdated.



Personally, I think that if you have earned a ring, sport it off. My father, who is the classiest man I know, sports a graduation ring, a wedding band, and a free mason's ring.

My dad wears his engineer's ring (I think that's what it's called...) and wedding band, and my grandfather the same rings, along with a free masons ring. However, I have read in numerous places that strictly, this is not fashionable. I'll get a reference for that, if you'd like, when I get on my laptop.



Once again, I must disagree. I agree with you on the matter of pocket watches, but I prefer a gold watch with some small stones, but nothing too flashy.
Personal preference :smallsmile:.

[Tirian]

There's a book with 19 or something knots, and I believe Wikipedia has the Simple, Four in Hand, Half-Windsor and Windsor knots.

Wiki actually has a page about the folks who found the eighty-five ways to tie a tie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_85_Ways_to_Tie_a_Tie), of which fourteen are reasonable.

Me, I'm big on the Half Windsor. The Four-in-Hand is much more common (in the US at any rate), but I think that asymmetrical knots look sloppy. On the other hand, at least on my neck the Windsor comes across as ridiculously wide.

[Kneenibble]

I love the Windsor. Love it. Maybe with a narrower tie, Tirian?


I've heard of people doing that to get a "quick shine" for ROTC inspections, but I've never done it. All you need is polish, a cotton rag, and some water. Link to how I do it (http://www.wikihow.com/Give-Your-Boots-That-Military-Mirror-Shine) Of course, if starting out, I'll apply polish dry and then hit it with the brush until that sort of plateaus out, I was told that it's faster than the straight wet-polish method.

Huh.
Thanks for that link. I've certainly never been able to polish black shoes very well.
edit Ever try the banana peel method?

[skywalker]

The hats I expect somebody to bring issue with, and the jewelry is obviously in the more traditional sense. There are ways to show some style without looking like a fool, though. I don't understand the need to wear a hat, though, because I find most who do keep it on indoors. It's a needless accessory that makes you look like your trying too hard. Check out these cufflinks: www.bittersweetsny.com (the snake ones, unfortunately there's no direct link). That's a subtle way to show some style, without looking like an idiot.

Too subtle. Almost no-one will notice this. I mean, maybe if you're engaged in an activity that draws attention to your wrists, like paying for dinner, etc. But even then, most people will not notice. It's really only you that feels more stylish when you put those on.


Me, I'm big on the Half Windsor. The Four-in-Hand is much more common (in the US at any rate), but I think that asymmetrical knots look sloppy.

+ eleventybillion.


I love the Windsor. Love it. Maybe with a narrower tie, Tirian?

No less than 007 himself remarked that the full windsor is "the mark of a cad."

[Force]

If you go back far enough in history, various types of armor could be considered a gentleman's clothing (clothing that a gently-born man, esp. one of the nobility, would wear), and I like armor. Does that count?

[Amiel]

I say bring back the doublet, old chap, and while we're at it, have top hats at a more reasonable price and make them more prevalent.
Also, canes should be sold at nearly every street corner.

I like top hats and canes; wish I had some.

[Winter_Wolf]

I have to say, every male who wears a suit simply must get at least one custom tailored suit. The advantage of an off the rack suit is mainly price, but you CAN find a custom tailored suit for roughly the same price as something you'd snag at a department store. And they're so much better.

Let me be clear: I hate suits. Just so we're clear. BUT, I have a custom tailored suit, and it fits wonderfully. It's actually comfortable and looks good. It's no famous designer's piece, but it's well made, about as durable as that kind of clothing gets, and isn't stifling. The main problem with it, is that it's so comfortable that when I try something from the rack, I think it just flat out sucks. I also dislike dress pants, but that can't be helped.

Finally, suspenders (braces in UK?). The things that hold your pants up and aren't belts. I think they're cool, and I wear them when I must wear the suit. My mafia name is Donny Straps. (It's some kind of running gag with the people where I used to sell cars. I joined the ranks of Fernando, Eddy Money, Red, and "The Russian".) They're the clip type instead of the button type, but I can fix a clip faster than I can replace a button.

[Bookworm42]

To kick in my two cents, I must say that I find hats to be the way to go. I am myself a proud owner of several fedoras, and I think they are some of the best hats ever made, a good fedora can make almost any outfit better.

[Kneenibble]

No less than 007 himself remarked that the full windsor is "the mark of a cad."

Ah, the old physiognomy of fashion, is it? Well James Bond is never wrong, I am a dirty, dirty cad.

[Cleverdan22]

My friend excels in this spectacularly. He can wear any top hat, trench coat, over coat, leather coat, or what have you, and it works perfectly. Heck, he waltzes around with a pocketwatch all the time and none of us find it odd because that's just who he is. He also wears driving gloves when, well, driving. And it still works. I can't really pull it off the way he does, but I'll be darned if I don't try on occasion.

[Mathis]

My friend excels in this spectacularly. He can wear any top hat, trench coat, over coat, leather coat, or what have you, and it works perfectly. Heck, he waltzes around with a pocketwatch all the time and none of us find it odd because that's just who he is. He also wears driving gloves when, well, driving. And it still works. I can't really pull it off the way he does, but I'll be darned if I don't try on occasion.

See? Some people can wear anything they want and still look shamelessly good doing it. There are just some people that give hats and other accesories a bad rumour. Now, if we can crack the secret behind this we can rule the world!

[Froogleyboy]

Personal preference :smallsmile:.

True :Smile: I was just showing my opinion. Thought it'd make for good conversation

[Jack Squat]

edit Ever try the banana peel method?

I've never tried it, nor heard of anyone doing it. Go ahead and try it. Worst case is that you need to strip down your shoes with rubbing alcohol and start over with kiwi polish.

[snoopy13a]

See? Some people can wear anything they want and still look shamelessly good doing it. There are just some people that give hats and other accesories a bad rumour. Now, if we can crack the secret behind this we can rule the world!

Those people are pretty much Western society :smalltongue:

Hats have been out of fashion for 40+ years. Wearing rings other than a wedding ring is tacky. Cufflinks are generally tacky.

Suspenders (Braces in the UK) are ok. Just don't wear a belt and suspenders (that looks a little unsecure :smalltongue: )

In general, conservative is better when it comes to looking nice. Suits should be dark blue (navy), gray, or black (note, not brown). The best tie colors are red and blue. White is the best color for shirts but blue is ok.

Shoes should be leather.
Suits should be wool.
Shirts should be cotton.
Ties should be silk.

[Aedilred]

Hats should not be worn with a dinner suit (tuxedo to you Americans). I've been told that this is actually a rule, although the rules on formal clothing started to fall apart in the early 20th century at around the same time as the dinner suit came in, so I'm not sure about that. Either way, though, I find that hats with a dinner suit just look wrong. A fedora, homburg or bowler hat is too informal for the starchy setting (although is excellent with a lounge suit), and a top hat looks unbalanced with the short jacket.

With morning dress and white tie, however, I would recommend a top hat to everyone (no matter what their age!). Preferably black with either (I believe the Duke of Edinburgh or someone like that once said that a grey topper makes a man look like a Dutch financier) and always black with white tie. Of course, the opportunities to wear either white tie or morning dress are very limited these days, unless you happen to be a butler or wedding caterer, in which case you shouldn't be wearing a hat anyway. However, no matter what the circumstances, always, always, always take the hat off as soon as you enter a building. Preferably every time a lady goes by, too, but that one's a bit more problematic.

While I'm here, if anyone could point me in the direction of an affordable opera cape (either in the UK or with cheap shipping to there) I would be eternally grateful. I have the rest of the white tie getup (including scarf, gloves, hat, cane, etc.) but have not yet managed to find a cape which costs less than the entire GDP of South America.

[deuxhero]

Reading this topic reminds me of (one of the many) the reasons why I prefer to wear slacks and a button up shirt.

[Mathis]

Suspenders (Braces in the UK) are ok. Just don't wear a belt and suspenders (that looks a little unsecure :smalltongue: )

Kids, remember this: Never trust a man who can't trust his own pants.

[Kneenibble]

In terms of his footwear, how can a gentleman mediate his wanting to look & feel classy at work with being on his feet most of the time & walking some distance there and back?

I feel stuck between ruining my look with sneakers, or coming home with aching feet. Recommendations on sexy shoes that don't eat their contents, please. Or is this what insoles are for?

[skywalker]

In terms of his footwear, how can a gentleman mediate his wanting to look & feel classy at work with being on his feet most of the time & walking some distance there and back?

I feel stuck between ruining my look with sneakers, or coming home with aching feet. Recommendations on sexy shoes that don't eat their contents, please. Or is this what insoles are for?

Most shoes have a break-in period. I know I bought some very sexy shoes that were hell on my feet. Then, after a while, they stopped being that way. They are now broken in.

Or maybe it's my feet that are broken :smallbiggrin:.

Either way, they don't hurt anymore!

[Fawkes]

What a coincidence! I have to get all fancy for my college ring ceremony tonight. I just spent ten minutes tying a half windsor according to a video guide. :smalltongue:

Now if I could only find my nice shoes...

[ForzaFiori]

I personally have to disagree with the general opinion on rings. While its tacky to have huge rings on every finger, I see nothing wrong with wearing a college ring, or something like a masonic ring. It serves to identify you to others, so that other graduates, masons, what-have-you realize that you have something in common.

@Froogle and Lyre: Your dad and grand-dad are awesome. How the heck do you get into the masons?

[skywalker]

@Froogle and Lyre: Your dad and grand-dad are awesome. How the heck do you get into the masons?

Invitation only. :smallwink:

[Recaiden]

From what I've seen around here:

Hats are for all people not in tuxedos.

Pocketwatches are for people wanting to look old-fashioned.

Cufflinks are tacky or over-the-top formal.

Bowties are weird in almost all situations, and should be pre-tied because almost no one will wear one normally.

Suspenders are for weird fringe fashions only.

Rings are good provided you wear them on the correct finger. (Which I personally ignore, but that's just me)

[Tirian]

What a coincidence! I have to get all fancy for my college ring ceremony tonight. I just spent ten minutes tying a half windsor according to a video guide. :smalltongue:

Now if I could only find my nice shoes...

Eeee-xcellent. Another recruit for Team Half Windsor. :smallcool:

It's true. Youtube is good for learning very many things, but learning to tie a tie isn't one of them in my experience. My advice is to visit the aforementioned wiki page on The 85 Ways to Tie a Tie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_85_Ways_to_Tie_a_Tie). The mathematical notation takes a little getting used to, but if you know one of the knots, then you can spend a couple of minutes doing that one slowly until you figure out what the notation means, and then you can transfer that knowledge to any of them. Then you can even memorize the secret variant of the Half Windsor that is self-releasing instead of the "regular" one that I learned from my father and he learned from his father ad astra.

[Cealocanth]

I've been hearing this term thrown around quite a bit more often nowadays. What exactly are "pastel colors?" I just can't figure it out. More often than not I show up in the formal white shirt/black pants to a bar/bat mitzvah and everyone looks confused because I didn't understand their alien dress code.:smallconfused: The worst part is that isn't just dress clothes. "I don't care for pastel colors" "I'm having my living room painted a pastel color" "Icelanders often paint their house a pastel color." I have a concert coming up and I'm supposed to wear a pastel color. What do I do???:smallfurious:

[skywalker]

I've been hearing this term thrown around quite a bit more often nowadays. What exactly are "pastel colors?" I just can't figure it out. More often than not I show up in the formal white shirt/black pants to a bar/bat mitzvah and everyone looks confused because I didn't understand their alien dress code.:smallconfused: The worst part is that isn't just dress clothes. "I don't care for pastel colors" "I'm having my living room painted a pastel color" "Icelanders often paint their house a pastel color." I have a concert coming up and I'm supposed to wear a pastel color. What do I do???:smallfurious:

These (http://www.ma-petite-chou.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/the-beanpole-colored-jean-in-pastel-yellow.jpg) are (http://www.halfmoonbaydickson.com/images/cable_jumpsuit_pastel_pink.jpg) pastel (http://images.replacements.com/images/images5/crystal/A/hazel_atlas_moderntone_platonite_pastel_green_oval _platter_P0000003078S0010T2.jpg) colors. (http://bringatrailer.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/1970_Porsche_911_Pastel_Blue_Coupe_Front_1.jpg)

It's a more washed out tone than normal, I guess is a good way to describe it?

[Flickerdart]

I've been hearing this term thrown around quite a bit more often nowadays. What exactly are "pastel colors?" I just can't figure it out. More often than not I show up in the formal white shirt/black pants to a bar/bat mitzvah and everyone looks confused because I didn't understand their alien dress code.:smallconfused: The worst part is that isn't just dress clothes. "I don't care for pastel colors" "I'm having my living room painted a pastel color" "Icelanders often paint their house a pastel color." I have a concert coming up and I'm supposed to wear a pastel color. What do I do???:smallfurious:
Pastel colours are faint, light, soft colours. Like this or this. They look best with brown pants, though I suppose gray is good too.

@skywalker: Those last two are a little too bold, I'd say. Hospital green and sky blue aren't pastels. :smalltongue:

[Cealocanth]

Thanks. Now to solve the problem of actually getting something of that color....
Anyway, thanks for the help.

[Fifty-Eyed Fred]

Bowties are weird in almost all situations, and should be pre-tied because almost no one will wear one normally.

No, they normally are pre-tied because not many wear them, but should be self-tied for that very reason.

Pastel colours are fine for me, but how far in terms of colour does the Playground think shirts can go for a gentleman? Personally, I do not stray far from white and blue.

[Tirian]

Pastel colours are fine for me, but how far in terms of colour does the Playground think shirts can go for a gentleman? Personally, I do not stray far from white and blue.

I have a few purple and teal Oxford shirts that I wear when I want to celebrate (or recall) springtime. I wouldn't wear them to an interview, but it's nice to have them in the closet. They also serve as Business Casual shirts when combined with black jeans and sneakers. Just to be clear, I imagine that my shirts are too bold to count as pastel, but the point is that if you have a shirt that looks nice on you then wear it. White tie is a straitjacket of a dress code, but Business Formal does allow you some opportunity to express your individuality.

[Cleverdan22]

I was thinking about upping my gentlemanly style this summer, perhaps investing in few nice vests, a good coat, a pocketwatch.

[skywalker]

No, they normally are pre-tied because not many wear them, but should be self-tied for that very reason.

Actually, sometimes, a self-tied bowtie can make you seem like you're trying too hard.


Pastel colours are fine for me, but how far in terms of colour does the Playground think shirts can go for a gentleman? Personally, I do not stray far from white and blue.

Depends quite entirely on the event in question.

[Recaiden]

No, they normally are pre-tied because not many wear them, but should be self-tied for that very reason.

So why should the people do extra work in tying them?

[Icewalker]

Vests! I do quite love them. Have three very nice ones which I need to wear more regardless of excuse to do so. I think I'll do that tomorrow.

That's most of my excellent gentlemanly clothing at the moment, but I'm always out to get more. I have a fedora, with peacock feather in it, but I do need more hats...

[Kneenibble]

Vests are fabulous, I'm also a fan.
I'm even more a fan of the idea of a peacock feather in a fedora. *makes a note* You still find them at craft places, huh?

I wear a budgie's tail feather in mine, personally.


Pastel colours are fine for me, but how far in terms of colour does the Playground think shirts can go for a gentleman? Personally, I do not stray far from white and blue.
Sexy men always look even sexier in pastels.

I think a lot of men could pull off more exciting colours and patterns than try. This is my conclusion from people-watching in areas where men dress more formally. Not everybody. But more.

I throw in bright colours and interesting patterns whenever I dress up. I also wear cufflinks often and between one and six rings every day. Nobody has ever indicated that I go farther than I am able to pull off (because I don't :smalltongue:).

[Tirian]

So why should the people do extra work in tying them?

For the same reason we do extra work in taking showers and doing laundry. Because there is always at least a subtle difference and if it ever grew to be a profound difference you would be the last one to notice it.

[Icewalker]

Nah, my grandmother keeps peacocks, so I have a basically endless supply of the incredible eye feathers.

And she has an albino peacock. He's young, just got his first full tail this year, so next time they molt I'll be able to get a white peacock tail feather...

[Kneenibble]

Nah, my grandmother keeps peacocks, so I have a basically endless supply of the incredible eye feathers.

And she has an albino peacock. He's young, just got his first full tail this year, so next time they molt I'll be able to get a white peacock tail feather...

...may I please have one?

Salomé, thou knowest my white peacocks, my beautiful white peacocks, that walk in the garden between the myrtles and the tall cypress-trees. Their beaks are gilded with gold and the grains that they eat are smeared with gold, and their feet are stained with purple. When they cry out the rain comes, and the moon shows herself in the heavens when they spread their tails.

[Tirian]

Salomé, thou knowest my white peacocks, my beautiful white peacocks, that walk in the garden between the myrtles and the tall cypress-trees. Their beaks are gilded with gold and the grains that they eat are smeared with gold, and their feet are stained with purple. When they cry out the rain comes, and the moon shows herself in the heavens when they spread their tails.

You're on dangerous ground, since this is both pornography and religion. :smalltongue:

Anyway, yeah, I think I've seen peacock feathers at both craft shops and sufficiently well-stocked fabric stores.

[drakir_nosslin]

Pastel colours are fine for me, but how far in terms of colour does the Playground think shirts can go for a gentleman? Personally, I do not stray far from white and blue.

90% of my shirts are white, the rest are white with stripes or light blue, and one is all black. I bought that one for a masquerade. And yes, some might find that boring, but if I want to run around all colorful, I'll put on a t-shirt.

And suits should be tailored, or taken to a tailor after purchase to get fixed. Those few corrections makes wonders. Dinner jackets are always tailored, there is no other option. Cuff links are worn when the dress code is black tie, not white, and not just with shirts, it looks like you're bragging.

Watches are wonderful accessories, but avoid any bling bling. Toned down, elegant and tasteful is the way to go. The thing is that if you know that what you are wearing is something cool and good looking then you'll be good looking as well. Don't walk around shouting 'I have money', people will just find you spoiled. Do it with style and people will be impressed.

And be careful with the perfume, cologne or whatever you use. That goes for both sexes. Not only are some people allergic, but when you can feel it clearly across the table it's just off putting.

Rings are for me a no go, besides an engagement ring. I'm a very 'less is more' type of guy.

Shoes should be black or dark brown leather when wearing a suit, always black when wearing a dinner jacket.

I prefer the half windsor knot, and slim ties, since my neck isn't very wide. When I only wear a shirt and a tie I sometimes use the four in hand instead, but those are rare, lazy moments :smallredface:.

[Flickerdart]

Nah, my grandmother keeps peacocks, so I have a basically endless supply of the incredible eye feathers.

And she has an albino peacock. He's young, just got his first full tail this year, so next time they molt I'll be able to get a white peacock tail feather...

I am now imagining a sharply dressed guy chasing peacocks around at a farm.

[The Anarresti]

I go to an aristocratic, Southern (southeastern USA, a.k.a. the CSA) all-male boarding school, ergo, plenty of gentlemanly dress going on here.
Oddly enough, bow ties are very popular here in the South. I'm the only kid who wears tweed to chapel in the winter. But, in the spring, it's light tan sport jackets only, so it all balances out. I'm a huge supporter of changing with the seasons. Food, music, decoration, and especially dress.
School tie is snazzy (http://lh6.ggpht.com/_SyCjcTleTo0/SZIOmiqlyDI/AAAAAAAAIPE/voiH0ySuJ7s/Top-15.jpg)(an actual photograph of my school graduation), but I only wear it to official school functions. My way of sticking it to the man: I've inherited about fifty cool ties from my Dad, so I like to use them. Don't worry, he's not dead, he just has too many ties. BTW He was a first-edition gamer back in the '70's, and was my first DM back when I was eight. Like father, like son, eh?

[Aedilred]

I have to speak up in defence of cufflinks, since it seems many on here don't care for them. I'll usually wear cufflinks where the shirt I have on has facility for them, and (obviously) always where the shirt is double-cuffed (ie with black/white tie) since there's no option there.

That said, most of my cufflinks are not very showy. I have a couple of plain steel pairs, one comedy pair (Pacman/ghost), one pair of college links (worn at alumni and associated occasions), one set of sterling silver which come out with the black tie, and one gold pair that I've never worn.

I don't know whether this is a UK/US thing again. Over here, the wearing of cufflinks with a lounge suit is unusual, but not remarkable. With anything more formal, cufflinks are expected, or even required.

For me, it's not about showing off (after all, it's arguably easier to fit a cufflink than to tie the cuff button on your dominant hand) and they are not very expensive; it just offers another way to personalise my appearance while staying within the "rules".

It's ironic, I think, that at the time that rules about dress code are generally becoming more relaxed, the rest of one's appearance seems to be becoming more uniform. Facial hair is definitely out for anyone under the age of about 45 and head hair should be short. As someone who naturally tends towards both long hair and some sort of moustache/beard (in fact, I still have a beard) I have to take opportunities to look how I want to when they present themselves. Cufflinks are one expression of this, coloured shirts another. I don't tend to go in for novelty ties, though; it seems more expressive to wear a bright shirt with a relatively plain tie than a pastel shirt with a comedy tie.

[Fifty-Eyed Fred]

What do the denizens of the Playground think of tweed? I already have a tweed jacket which serves me rather well in the countryside, as it's a very durable and useful fabric, but what about tweed suits? Also, how acceptable do you find tweed to wear into town? It is, after all, unusual to see a man fully dressed in tweed these days.

[snoopy13a]

What do the denizens of the Playground think of tweed? I already have a tweed jacket which serves me rather well in the countryside, as it's a very durable and useful fabric, but what about tweed suits? Also, how acceptable do you find tweed to wear into town? It is, after all, unusual to see a man fully dressed in tweed these days.

Academics can always pull off tweed as can older men. I don't think a young man could wear tweed in a professional setting but tweed works ok in casual situations. While old-fashioned, tweed is understated (unlike bow ties or top hats). Understated, quality clothing is usually acceptable.

I'd stick with the jacket and not wear a suit.