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View Full Version : Ways to draw and cast swift scrolls as swift action



Escheton
2010-05-02, 08:27 PM
Right, getting items from packs or scrollcases and such tends to take longer then a free action.

So how do you use a swift scroll and still move and attack?

Shiva asori
2010-05-02, 08:30 PM
infinite scrollcase from the MIC.

though that takes a move action...

balistafreak
2010-05-02, 08:32 PM
IIRC, casting from a scroll is always a standard action. This prevents stupidity like Celerity from scrolls.

So while I'm pretty sure that you might find ways to quickly put scrolls into your hands, reading them is always going to take that painful standard action.

There are a few more creative things you can do with wands, but I think those are also mostly standard actions as well.

Sorry, mate. You'll have to get more creative than the top of my head to use magic devices to cast spells as swift actions.

Runestar
2010-05-02, 08:47 PM
Rules compendium states that using a magic item is the same activation time as its casting time. This way, it should be a swift action to say, activate a wand of wraithstrike or use a scroll of celerity/quickened magic missile.

Can someone confirm if this applies to scrolls? My memory is a little fuzzy (I know for sure it applies to at least wands).

Escheton
2010-05-02, 08:56 PM
exactly, and as soon as my char has some more cash I'm outfitting my dastana's with wandbracer mods. And my weapons with wandchambers.

I just don't like the idea of using wands with less then 5 charges for contingency situations.
Scrolls are better for those. I just need a storage and retrieval system that takes minimal actions.

I'm already getting a potionbelt with potionsblatters to draw potions as free actions without AoO's but thats healing and selfbuffs only

balistafreak
2010-05-02, 08:57 PM
Here's a bit of insight. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm#spellCompletion)

Scrolls are spell-completion items. They always take standard actions. Always. Also, they provoke AoOs. No scrolls of Celerity.

Spell-trigger and command-word items, such as most wands, also always take standard actions, but don't provoke AoOs. No wands of Celerity either.

Use-activated items are items like swords, which get their benefit from use. A magic sword, for example. Some items still require knowledge of their function to benefit from, although items such as the aforementioned sword don't. None of these items (that I can think of right now, anyways) cast spells.

I'd assume items that break these normal classifications would say so.

I don't see any non-item activation----->item activation lines here. I'm away from my literature right now, but try checking the Magic Item Compendium for anything else. That's the first place I'd look for funny magic items. :smallwink:

On a side note, think about it. How would you justifiy using a wand or scroll of Celerity? You kind of, you know, have to wave a stick or read some words. Even if you could justify the speed, imagine the silliness of always walking around with one in your hand, ready to go. The whole benefit of Celerity is that you can take some extra time when surprised.

Quickened spells I can maybe see... until the melee-type with UMD duelwields a sword and Wand of Wraithstrike in the other. (Although I think that's the problem of Wraithstrike, not quickened spells. :smalltongue:)

Escheton
2010-05-02, 09:01 PM
Activating a spell completion item is a standard action and provokes attacks of opportunity exactly as casting a spell does.

pretty sure that's not counting the new and improved swift and immediate spells.

balistafreak
2010-05-02, 09:11 PM
pretty sure that's not counting the new and improved swift and immediate spells.

I'd argue that it does, because of the fact that spells with casting times other than 1 standard action exist even in the SRD. A scroll of Hallow, for example, would still only take a standard action to cast, even though it normally takes 24 hours. This is because "a scroll is a spell that is mostly finished".

(Why you'd want a scroll of Hallow is beyond me, though... but I digress.)

This interpretation, which I personally believe to be pretty clear and bulletproof (except to the obvious specified, clearly detailed exceptions), does have the unfortunate side effect of nerfing quicker-than-standard spells in items.

Runestar
2010-05-02, 09:24 PM
Does no one have spell compendium available to cross-reference? I am AFB at the moment, so I can't access it, but I am pretty sure it overrides the SRD, which hasn't really been updated in ages.

A wand or scroll of hallow would take 24 hours to activate, IMO.

Escheton
2010-05-02, 09:31 PM
spell compendium: Magic Items: Activating a spell completion item, activating
a spell trigger item, or drinking a potion is a standard
action even if the spell from which the scroll, potion, or
item is made can be cast as a swift action. In other words, it
takes a standard action to drink a potion of quick march(page
164), even though casting the spell itself requires only a
swift action

tell me quick if it's actually illegal to post this.
Not sure where the boundry lies, is it really just online stuff you can quote?

balistafreak
2010-05-02, 09:35 PM
Went home. Got my Magic Item Compendium, flipped to page 219, "Activating Magic Items".

Listed basically word-for-word are the same command-word/spell-completion/etc. entries, with the exception that they forgo saying "standard action", unlike in the SRD. This is because in an earlier paragraph, it says "Every magic item in this book has an Activation entry in its description that describes the tpye of action necessary (if any) to activate the item and the means of activation."

This line apparently overwrites nothing in the SRD, and simply makes the whole "special item exception" clearer. As far as I can tell, items are standard-action unless specified as exceptions.

As for your opinion, I've personally been of this opinion - you can cast a long-casting-duration spell from a scroll, because casting has happened, it's just on the page. You "finish the spell", just as outlined in the SRD.

Such spells are too complicated for multiple-charge items such as wands, though. The idea of a wand of Hallow -

Actually, you can't have a Wand of Hallow - it's 5th level, and wands contain spells of 4th level or lower. So that's not a problem. :smallbiggrin:

Let's see... a wand of Divination (10 minute casting time) fits my hypothetical. To finish my thought, the idea of a complicated spell in a stick never appealed to me. I simply don't let it happen in my games, and it's generally not a problem because, well, who wants a wand of Divination? :smalltongue:

balistafreak
2010-05-02, 09:38 PM
tell me quick if it's actually illegal to post this.
Not sure where the boundry lies, is it really just online stuff you can quote?

Tell the truth, even if it was, I wouldn't care. A little law-breaking is fine if it makes an argument clear, and it's not as if we're trying to provide the entire contents for free. :smallamused:

I'm pretty sure that it isn't, though. Otherwise someone probably would have come down hard on the forums ages ago.

... if I see Roland because of this I'm going to go back to your fun, citizen.

PId6
2010-05-02, 09:40 PM
Activating a scroll takes the same amount of time as the casting time of the spell stored on the scroll and provokes attacks of opportunity as spellcasting does.
Now you just need to find a way to draw scrolls as free actions. It's not unreasonable to houserule that Quick Draw allows it, but I don't know of any ways by RAW.

lsfreak
2010-05-02, 09:45 PM
Rules Compendium, despite supposedly just collecting the rules, overwrites the normal. Scrolls take the same time to cast as whatever spell in on the scroll.


Activating a scroll takes the same amount of time as the casting time of the spell stored on the scroll and provokes attacks of opportunity as spellcasting does.

My personal preference is to make all scrolls take a standard action, but allow faster-than-normal for wands.

EDIT: Ninja'd due to slowness. And my 10 open tabs.

Koury
2010-05-02, 09:48 PM
As far as drawing them goes, why bother? Keep it in hand. You can have more then one spell on a scroll, after all. No need to switch between anything.

Escheton
2010-05-02, 09:49 PM
thats weird I think, seeing it's easyer to umd a wand then a scroll.
so if you are taking one as standards only I consider the wands to be more logical for it.

balistafreak
2010-05-02, 09:56 PM
Rules Compendium, despite supposedly just collecting the rules, overwrites the normal. Scrolls take the same time to cast as whatever spell in on the scroll.

... this is why I hate the Rules Compendium. Always ruining my hard work. :smalltongue:

Well, I guess that's that. Personally, I still find swift/immediate action scrolls silly, but hey, RAW power! /pun

Akal Saris
2010-05-03, 12:09 AM
There's that shield in the DMG that lets you scribe a scroll onto its back for cheap. One way to always have a scroll in hand for some characters.

Escheton
2010-05-03, 11:57 AM
The actual application in this case is a factotum/warblade/wizard, all lvl 1 so far.
We just got about 2k loot each and besides a few harpoons, I need to trick out my contingencies now with wands and scrolls.

Scrolls of spontaneous search, that sorta thing

he's a double specialised diviner, banning necro and evocation. Luckely we have a dread necro and a warmage.
Anyhoo, are there any scroll versions of the potionbelt?

Seffbasilisk
2010-05-03, 12:01 PM
There's that shield in the DMG that lets you scribe a scroll onto its back for cheap. One way to always have a scroll in hand for some characters.

Beat me to it.

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Caster's_Shield

Though that just keeps it handy, doesn't increase speed of casting or whatnot.

Escheton
2010-05-03, 12:15 PM
yeah, consider taking the shield later and adding thye sizing property to have it as a buckler most of the time.

Heliomance
2010-05-03, 02:58 PM
Ask your DM if you can apply the Quickdraw feat to a bandoleer of scrolls slung across your torso.

gdiddy
2010-05-03, 03:22 PM
Pro Tip: Always keep a crumpled up scroll of feather fall in a spell component pouch.

Darrin
2010-05-03, 04:58 PM
Now you just need to find a way to draw scrolls as free actions. It's not unreasonable to houserule that Quick Draw allows it, but I don't know of any ways by RAW.

Glove of the Master Strategist (Ghostwalk p. 71, 3600 GP). Does everything a glove of storing does, but cheaper and truestrike 1/day.

Spare Hand (MIC p. 137, 12000 GP) charged up with an infusion can retrieve a stowed item as a free action once per round.

You can also shoot yourself up with a Tempo Bloodspike (Magic of Eberron p. 140, 150 GP). For the next hour, you can activate the alchemical substance in your bloodstream to gain a move action on your turn, which you could use to draw a scroll/wand.

sambo.
2010-05-03, 08:18 PM
any DM who allows scrolls of Celerity to function as per the spell deserves the cheese his campaign will degenerate into.

lsfreak
2010-05-03, 09:35 PM
any DM who allows scrolls of Celerity to function as per the spell deserves the cheese his campaign will degenerate into.

FTFY. Screw scrolls, the spell itself is broken.

Flickerdart
2010-05-03, 09:42 PM
Scrolls are obviously Improvised Clubs and can be drawn with Quick Draw as a free action. :smallbiggrin:

Escheton
2010-05-03, 09:55 PM
right, eternal wand of heroics for quick draw it is then.
any ways to extend the duration on that cheaply?

Akal Saris
2010-05-03, 11:57 PM
Well, an artificer could burn 1 more of the daily charges (so both of them) to apply Extend to it.

For a factotum/warblade/wizard 1...not that I can think of. Buy 2 eternal wands of heroics? :P