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View Full Version : Wizards and Armor... I kindda want some...



NekoJoker
2010-05-03, 08:30 PM
Ok, so I know wizards should not wear amror, but due to action economy i don't really like the idea of casting Mage Armor/Shield every day/encounter.

I am now playing a 15th level wizard... the mage armor should not be a problem by now since (thanks to feats and other things) it lasts for about 17 hours so, that's fine. I still want to be better protected and though of using a shield.

The simple way is just getting a Mithral shield, get the twilight enchantment on it or make it Fey or Githcarft and just be done with it...

I am thinking of an animated (or dancing, don't remember now) towershield for more AC... but most likely the ASF reducers will make it just too expensive

I am sure there are some good ideas out there that are simpler than just throwing money on mi shield.... though i kindda like the idea of just teleporting in with a huge shield hovering around...

anyways, do you have any insights?

OH! and besides this, the Invisible spell from Cityscape, does it efectively turn everything invisible? if so, how does it work with the summon monster spels and other things like solid fog, which are designed to block sight?

Eternal Drifter
2010-05-03, 08:35 PM
First, become Profecient with shields. The best way to do this is by taking a single level of Fighter (and you get a bonus feat too).

Second, get a Mithril Light Steel Shield. No AC penalty due to Mithril, and also, 0% Arcane Spell Failure Chance! The main villian of my campain uses one... and I haven't needed to roll for spell failure once. You might want to look into it.

NekoJoker
2010-05-03, 08:39 PM
Nonproficiency i think is not a huge problem since it only affects physical skills (which i already don't use) and attacking (againg, something i REALLY don't use) my biggest issue here is arcane spell failure, I want to get a decent AC for a 15th level with minimum amout of magic per encounter.

Of course i am fine with casting 1 or 2 spells per day (from a scroll or a wand) to get the job done but i want to keep this to a minimum and save my magic for encounters and utility.

Pluto
2010-05-03, 08:42 PM
You're a 15th level Wizard and you're worried about AC?

Greater Mirror Image, Abrupt Jaunt, Phantom Steed, Greater Invisibility, Solid Fog, etc. should provide secure enough defenses to more or less forget about it.

If you have a Cleric in the party, swap some spell slots for a daily casting of Magic Vestment on a Mithril Buckler. That's 1 more point of AC than the Shield spell at your level right there.

I'd avoid the Tower Shield though. Those are some pretty severe penalties and the extra AC is pretty negligible.

WeeFreeMen
2010-05-03, 08:43 PM
Alternately you could go Concealment.
Blur, Mirror Image, etc.

Anything with Miss Chance is nice.
(Id suggest more spells and put more effort into this, sadly, Im at work.)

Edit: Damn, ninja'd by a non-exsistant planet. -_-;

Karsh
2010-05-03, 08:47 PM
Mithril Buckler is better than Light shield because it treats your hand as still being free as long as you aren't using an off-hand weapon.

But seriously, there's no need to put a Wizard in armor. Use Greater Mage Armor if you're really not ok with dealing with it, but what else are you using your 1st level slots for that a Mage Armor for the entire time you're awake isn't the best option?

NekoJoker
2010-05-03, 08:48 PM
You're a 15th level Wizard and you're worried about AC?

Yeah... I know it sounds lame but i just want to play it REALLY safe



Greater Mirror Image, Abrupt Jaunt, Phantom Steed, Greater Invisibility, Solid Fog, etc. should provide good enough defenses to more or less forget about it.


About the spells, once again i want to minimize the amount casted pre battle, so i can get to controlling the field better than buffing myself up.

And also i want to get a reliable way of augmenting the AC and not get skewered while flat-footed.


Again; does Invisible spell actually give me invisible summons with the Sommon monster chain? what about Solid fog and stuff like obscuring mist?

Doc Roc
2010-05-03, 08:49 PM
Animate a suit of armor as a golem. Ride inside it.

Escheton
2010-05-03, 08:51 PM
just cast improved mage armor the swift greater mirrir image and thats enough safety for me.

NekoJoker
2010-05-03, 08:54 PM
Animate a suit of armor as a golem. Ride inside it.


hahahah

I AM IROOOON MAAAAAN

Stompy
2010-05-03, 08:57 PM
If you want armor due to the reasons you just said, consider investing in a +X mithral twilight chain shirt. It will have an AC of 4+X, without armor check penalty nor arcane spell failure (20% -10% mithral -10% twilight).

For shields, a +X mithral buckler will give you a shield AC of 1+X, and it also has no armor check penalty nor the arcane spell failure again. (This is a reiteration of Eternal Drifter's post, I know. :smallsmile:)

You don't need twilight on the shield, but the armor requires it. The armor is not a huge investment at your WBL (+1 twilight MCS is 5100 gp), but it will give you at least +5 armor AC, all day and all night. (You can sleep in the armor because it is light.)

If you can swing magic vestment as previous posters have said, consider bumming that off the cleric instead of spending money to up the armor and shield AC bonuses.

EDIT: Do also note that the mage armor spells will last 15 hours per casting for you. You don't cast mage armor in battle, you cast it after you prepare spells.

Pluto
2010-05-03, 09:00 PM
Edit: Damn, ninja'd by a non-exsistant planet. -_-;
:smallbiggrin:

About the spells, once again i want to minimize the amount casted pre battle, so i can get to controlling the field better than buffing myself up.
Hours+/level spells like Phantom Steed, Greater Mage Armor or Contingency can be cast the day before. Effects with swift/immediate casting times, like Greater Mirror Image or Quickened Web, shouldn't interfere with your business too badly.


And also i want to get a reliable way of augmenting the AC and not get skewered while flat-footed.
PAO?
*ducks*

Again; does Invisible spell actually give me invisible summons with the Sommon monster chain? what about Solid fog and stuff like obscuring mist?Ask your DM. That feat is really funky. It's probably not supposed to, given that it's +0 level, but I think it does by RAW.

DragoonWraith
2010-05-03, 09:01 PM
Another option is a +X Defending weapon. Though that is more expensive...

tribble
2010-05-03, 09:19 PM
Animate a suit of armor as a golem. Ride inside it.

Animate a big, hollow statue as a golem, ride in that. You get to look like a WH40k Terminator as well as being nigh-invulnerable.

Private-Prinny
2010-05-03, 09:35 PM
Animate a suit of armor as a golem. Ride inside it.

Or somehow get your hands on some Cube blueprints.

NekoJoker
2010-05-03, 09:45 PM
Or somehow get your hands on some Cube blueprints.

Cube? are we getting into Borg territory here captain?

Godskook
2010-05-03, 09:46 PM
Ok, so I know wizards should not wear amror, but due to action economy i don't really like the idea of casting Mage Armor/Shield every day/encounter.

I am now playing a 15th level wizard... the mage armor should not be a problem by now since (thanks to feats and other things) it lasts for about 17 hours so, that's fine. I still want to be better protected and though of using a shield.

Greater Luminous Armor(BoED), lasts hours per level, gives +8 AC *AND* an additional -4 penalty to anyone that attacks you in melee. Add in shield(which lasts hours/level too). Cast both twice a day, every 12 hours, and you'll never have to worry about them 'running out' in your sleep.

Tyrrell
2010-05-03, 09:51 PM
Mithral is -10% (DMG), twilight is a +1 enhancement for an additional 10% (magic item compendium), Githcraft or fey craft is yet another 5% (DMG 2 IIRC) and if you need more thisledown padding from races of the wild gives another 5% if you re wiling to take an increased armor check penalty

A large mithral githcraft or feycraft shield with the +2 ability animated (DMG) gives no arcane spell failure chance and doesn't take up one of your hands.

Skipping the thisledown, you've got breastplate and shield for an AC bonus of 7 before magical bonuses and no spell failure chance. You can even get your armor enchanted with nimbleness and not have any armor check penalty.

Lycanthromancer
2010-05-03, 10:02 PM
Get your hands on a psychoactive skin of proteus for additional size, natural armor, and Dex bonuses to AC. You can afford the 84,000 gp price tag pretty easily at level 15 (I can regularly craft these things by level 7).

Also, consider just planar binding or simulacruming a nightmare (the My Little Hellpony one) and have it cast astral projection on you. Who cares if you get hit? If you die, you'll just wake up inside your handy-dandy portable hole (or wherever it is you've stashed your body), and get yourself AP'd again.

Also, a lesser displacer cloak, a mithral twilight etc chain shirt of blur, a ring of blinking, Shape Soulmeld (blink shirt) + the open chakra spell, and so on, to make yourself damned near impossible to hit, most of which will last all day.

And don't bash greater/mage armor/shield, as they protect you against incorporeal touch attacks (which tend to be deadly), and also magic missile spells (which don't, unless they're Fell Draining magic missiles).

You could also try using that spell that allows effects to treat you as undead, then cast haunt shift into a specially-prepared soon-to-be construct body.

Also, use the darklight cantrip (through wands; buy and/or make several), darkvision (or natural darkvision, if you've got it), and a ring of the darkhidden (2000 gp, MIC) to be completely invisible at all times; combine with a high Hide score and the Darkstalker feat to be damned difficult to target.

Greater/ironguard to be immune to manufactured weapons.

I'm sure there's a spell that makes you completely immune to dying from hit point damage; Persist it, and only worry about healing when it's about to run out. Extend it as well and you'll only need to worry about it every 2 days or so.

Also, monk's belt and Wis buffs.

You're a wizard; you're practically a god. Why worry about armor when you can glare at the universe and Just Say NoTM?

NekoJoker
2010-05-03, 10:09 PM
Lycanthomancer, that's some really good stuff right there, I think i have pretty much all the insight i needed

Oh, on another note... can I sig this?




You're a wizard; you're practically a god. Why worry about armor when you can glare at the universe and Just Say NoTM?

Doc Roc
2010-05-03, 10:10 PM
Cube? are we getting into Borg territory here captain?

Oh yes. The moment I showed up.

Jeff240sx
2010-05-03, 10:16 PM
(Fey/Gith-craft) +1 Twilight Mithral Breastplate with (Thistledown) lining.
Use one of the modifications in parenthesis. Light armor, +6AC +5dex. About 8500gp with Thistledown, a few hundred more for Fey/Githcraft template.
+1 Mithral Buckler / Light Shield for +2 Shield bonus, 3000gp or so.
Or a Ring of Force for 8500gp, free Shield spell and +4 shield bonus.

But really... you made it 15 levels without this AC. Make it 2 more, and you get Time Stop.
From there, you have forever to buff before battle.

Greater Luminous Armor + Shield = +12 AC, and attackers take -4 (+16 AC in melee and close range). Unless you're an AbChamp.. then it's +26AC.

Can you squeeze into AbChamp for your last 5 levels? :lol:

Hand_of_Vecna
2010-05-03, 10:21 PM
Have you considered Abjurant Champion?

Lycanthromancer
2010-05-03, 10:29 PM
Lycanthomancer, that's some really good stuff right there, I think i have pretty much all the insight i neededThe skin of proteus is, quite probably, the most useful item in the entire game. Any creature of 7 HD or below, for 7 minutes, all day long? Whee!

Also, if you have a familiar, you can have it carry you around while you're in object-form for 7 hours at a time. If you don't have a familiar, you've got the party rogue to do it for you. And since you're an object, you take half damage from attacks, gain up to 15 hardness, have so many immunities it's not even funny, and are only actually damaged if the guy carrying you fails a Reflex save on a natural 1 (and even then, only sometimes, and only if you're on that list of items that ARE damaged; become an earring and you're pretty well set).

<3 Psychoactive skin of proteus. <3


Oh, on another note... can I sig this?Sure. I seem to have a lot of quotes floating around these days.

NekoJoker
2010-05-03, 10:32 PM
Can you squeeze into AbChamp for your last 5 levels? :lol::

I was not really planning to get into that really, but maybe i will look into it, just in case.

The ring of force may actually be a good idea, i'll check it out since it costs pretty mcuh the same as an armor (which i decided will not be using, since Mage Armor lasts enough already)


Luminous armor is just awesome, but i'm not sure if my DM would allow it, heck I'm not sure i would allow it myself on a campaign... what level was it once again?

The Shadowmind
2010-05-03, 10:39 PM
An ironman joke, but no mentioning of the Clockwork armor (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cw/20070212a)? No ASF 0% if you grab heavy armor proficiency somehow, are able to make a (DC 18) Spellcraft check. Would save the spell slot that would be used on Mage armor.

gorfnab
2010-05-04, 12:43 AM
Luminous armor is just awesome, but i'm not sure if my DM would allow it, heck I'm not sure i would allow it myself on a campaign... what level was it once again?
Luminous Armor (BoED) is 2nd level. Greater Luminous Armor (BoED) is 4th level.

One level of Paragnostic Apostle (Complete Champion) will increase the armor bonus from Mage Armor/Greater and Luminous Armor/Greater by +2 (Knowledge is Power: Mind Over Matter).

Otherwise if you're a Dwarf you can take a level of Runesmith and wear fullplate or whatever ever armor you want/are proficient with.

Keld Denar
2010-05-04, 01:11 AM
Before you go tanking your attack roll with non-proficiency penalties, DO note that Ranged Touch Attacks are indeed attack rolls, and there are a LOT of good RTAs. Granted, RTAs are relatively easy to hit with, but your AB isn't gonna be stellar even WITHOUT the penalty, and then slapping a -4 to -6 penalty on that is just asking to waste valuable combat actions.

Divide by Zero
2010-05-04, 01:17 AM
Before you go tanking your attack roll with non-proficiency penalties, DO note that Ranged Touch Attacks are indeed attack rolls, and there are a LOT of good RTAs. Granted, RTAs are relatively easy to hit with, but your AB isn't gonna be stellar even WITHOUT the penalty, and then slapping a -4 to -6 penalty on that is just asking to waste valuable combat actions.

Doesn't matter if you can bring the ACP down to zero (yet another reason to love mithral).

Keld Denar
2010-05-04, 01:25 AM
Doesn't matter if you can bring the ACP down to zero (yet another reason to love mithral).

IF. Emphasis. Do note that a couple of the ways to bring ASF down actually increase ACP (Thistledown Suit in particular, maybe a couple others).

Yea, Mithril helps, but it alone can only go so far. Having played a level 13 wizard who uses a fair number of RTAs who has ~ a +12 total attack bonus, I wouldn't take ANY penalty that could cause my Stun Rays, or my Split Ray Enervations, or any of my other debuffs to have ANY more chance to miss.

Armor should be seen primarily as a chassis for loading up extra item enhancements. The difference between +4 from chain shirt and +8 from full plate at the OPs level are marginal at best. That said, Armor is a great place to nab permanent Freedom of Movement (+1 Freedom armor is 36,000g and change, ~4000g cheaper than a FoM Ring and doesn't take up the valuable item slot) or Death Ward (Soulfire is a +4 equiv, so ~26,000g for a Mithril Buckler with it is a STEAL).

If a Balor wants to hit you, no amount of metal is gonna deter him. Best get the utility out of it and focus on other effects to protect your bacon.