Is V in trouble?

[Ashiver]

I am foggy on what sorts of divination a high level cleric might have available to them but, is it possible that his past black dragon mass killing might be revealed?
I would think that in a draconic empire like this that would be a pretty negative thing, even if the same divination reveals them to not be Nale and company.

[Dark Matter]

It's certainly possible... but that strikes me as an unlikely question for a Cleric to ask.

[Linkavitch]

unless the cleric is one worshipping the dragon deity, who has told all her subjects to be on the look out for a purple-haired elf wizard...

[Zevox]

Doesn't seem likely. Why would a divination used to confirm their identities reveal that particular event from V's past?

Zevox

[Hatman]

i think for the dragon to attack V it would have to get off its backside, maybe do weight watchers for a bit. and thats with V still paralyzed

[ThePhantasm]

I don't think V is in any trouble. The Empress of Blood isn't even a black dragon - the folks in this empire may not really care. We don't have enough info yet to tell.

[slayerx]

I'd say unlikely... Malack may be a lizardfolk in service to a red dragon but he does not seem to be a high priest of Tiamat. As such he should not be receiving any kind of calling to to take revenge for the black dragons...

The red dragon empress aswell, so far does not seem like the type to be receiving calls from tiamat; much less be good at acting on them


I think V might be safe from tiamat's wrath... from what it seems, Tiamat may be blaming the IFCC for the death of her black dragons... as such the deal she made with them to have good dragons killed in vengeance may have freed V from receiving any kind of direct retribution from tiamat

[Draconi Redfir]

i said it in the strip's thread, ill say it again:

just becuse a dragon exists, dosent mean its out to kill V.

[Thanatosia]

I'd say unlikely... Malack may be a lizardfolk in service to a red dragon but he does not seem to be a high priest of Tiamat.
He does seem to be a priest of the western Pantheon, and Tiamat is part of that Pantheon. Given the Empire of Bloods appearant Draconic theme, in addition to what is probably an evil-ish national alignment, and its probably not unreasonable to suppose that Tiamat might be a particularly focal figure in their observance of the Panthon.

[Dr.Epic]

I think only the Oracle of the Sunken Valley could figure out something like that.

[HandofShadows]

Which dieties where on the alter that Malack was at last page? That should tell you who/what he worships.

[RMcMurtry]

He does seem to be a priest of the western Pantheon, and Tiamat is part of that Pantheon. Given the Empire of Bloods appearant Draconic theme, in addition to what is probably an evil-ish national alignment, and its probably not unreasonable to suppose that Tiamat might be a particularly focal figure in their observance of the Panthon.

It's not unreasonable. I think it's not the case, though. That would almost necessitate V's demise here, and I don't think the Giant's going to do that. Tiamat might blame the IFCC. I don't think she's letting V off the hook.

[NerfTW]

i said it in the strip's thread, ill say it again:

just becuse a dragon exists, dosent mean its out to kill V.

And yet, only four dragons have appeared in the strip to date (more if you count the ones dying), two of them related and one a zombie. So given the rarity of dragons in the strip, it's still a valid suggestion.

[Snake-Aes]

unless the cleric is one worshipping the dragon deity, who has told all her subjects to be on the look out for a purple-haired elf wizard...

It's exactly the opposite. Tiamat has been promised compensation, compensation that demands V's well-being, so she'll keep shut about it for now.

[The Pilgrim]

It's exactly the opposite. Tiamat has been promised compensation, compensation that demands V's well-being, so she'll keep shut about it for now.

Does it? All whe know is that the IFCC promised to slay 5 Good dragons for each black one, but we don't know if Tiamat promised anything beyond not eating all three directors on the spot.

Not likely that the IFCC have told Tiamat about V, since they made emphasis on the secrecy of their scheme, and Tiamat wouldn't be happy to notice people messing with the Snarl thing.

[Snake-Aes]

Does it? All whe know is that the IFCC promised to slay 5 Good dragons for each black one, but we don't know if Tiamat promised anything beyond not eating all three directors on the spot.

Not likely that the IFCC have told Tiamat about V, since they made emphasis on the secrecy of their scheme, and Tiamat wouldn't be happy to notice people messing with the Snarl thing.

They promised that, and they know themselves that V is the center of execution of their plan, which means they need V alive and well. Eating V is bad for IFCC business, so it makes sense they made sure mama dragon would leave V alone for now.

[Souhiro]

Doesn't seem likely. Why would a divination used to confirm their identities reveal that particular event from V's past?

Zevox

Well, before use magic to confirm their identities (a quick and easy way to solve the problem) is unlikely in the OotS-verse. The plot always tend to complicate a lot, without magic shorcuts.

And if they were able to convince Via Diviantion, they could be named and entitled:

- Elan Not-Nale, First Worshipper of Banjo the Clown
- Haley Starshine, nice girl with misterious past
- Vaarsuvius Elficustus, the sexually ambiguos genocide of Black Dragons

[RMcMurtry]

Does it? All whe know is that the IFCC promised to slay 5 Good dragons for each black one, but we don't know if Tiamat promised anything beyond not eating all three directors on the spot.

Not likely that the IFCC have told Tiamat about V, since they made emphasis on the secrecy of their scheme, and Tiamat wouldn't be happy to notice people messing with the Snarl thing.

They need to TELL a GODDESS about who Vaarsuvius is?!

I expect Tiamat knows perfectly well who Vaarsuvius is, what (s)he's done, and has a wish on offer to any of her clerics who kill V. And that the bargain the IFCC struck was to keep their own lives for their part in it.

[Shale]

If Tiamat was going to kill the IFCC, wouldn't she have shown up with murder in her eyes, instead of placing a phone call?

[The Pilgrim]

If Tiamat was going to kill the IFCC, wouldn't she have shown up with murder in her eyes, instead of placing a phone call?

She's Lawful Evil. No need to act like a barbarian just because you side yourself with the forces of Darkness.

Besides, the IFCC director that talked with her didn't look exactly pristine after the experience.

[The Pilgrim]

They promised that, and they know themselves that V is the center of execution of their plan, which means they need V alive and well. Eating V is bad for IFCC business, so it makes sense they made sure mama dragon would leave V alone for now.

Very likely, but we have no proof.

We can't rule out the possibility that the IFCC didn't told Tiamat about V, because if Tiamat realizes V is integral for the IFCC plan, she can add two and two together and realize the IFCC plan involves something with the Snarl. And it's not like the Gods like people messing up with the Snarl thing.

If the IFCC doesn't press about V, Tiamat can just think the IFCC plan is some freak experiment not related to the Snarl and they were just using V as guinea pig.

It also opens a plot device for the comic, the OOTS are in Tiamat territory and a pissed off godness would make a good antagonist. Not like Rich needs to exploit this line, as we have lotsa stuff already and he happens to be more original than that. But still...

[Zeful]

We can't rule out the possibility that the IFCC didn't told Tiamat about V.

Very likely, but as a god she (with the only rules available for this kind of thing) knew V was going to kill those black dragons weeks in advance. She knows who V is without much need for scrying.

[The Pilgrim]

Very likely, but as a god she (with the only rules available for this kind of thing) knew V was going to kill those black dragons weeks in advance. She knows who V is without much need for scrying.

Yes.

But as a God, she can't influence directly the material plane.

The Nine Hells is another thing, she happens to live there.

[Stille_Nacht]

wasnt thor on the material plane?

[Kish]

wasnt thor on the material plane?
Which strip are you thinking of?

[hamishspence]

Possibly this one?

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0040.html


Though in theory that could have been an Outer Plane.

[Dancing_Fox]

Talk about not seeing the forest for the trees.

"Re: Is V in trouble?"

All of this talk about remote chances of payback (besides being highly unlikely at this point, as already pointed out), completely misses the most pressing problems.

Such as being skewered on a strength draining arrow, in the hands of bounty hunters, who are delivering you to a dragon who eats live whole cows and probably other things, under the orders of a high ranking priest who apparently has it in for your colleagues and anyone they associate with.


So yes, yes indeed. V is in trouble.


(But no more than we would normally expect for a member of OoTS.)

[shadowkiller]

Talk about not seeing the forest for the trees.

"Re: Is V in trouble?"

All of this talk about remote chances of payback (besides being highly unlikely at this point, as already pointed out), completely misses the most pressing problems.

Such as being skewered on a strength draining arrow, in the hands of bounty hunters, who are delivering you to a dragon who eats live whole cows and probably other things, under the orders of a high ranking priest who apparently has it in for your colleagues and anyone they associate with.


So yes, yes indeed. V is in trouble.


(But no more than we would normally expect for a member of OoTS.)

All very good points, especially with all the pointy things around V.

Also to all you saying that every dragon wants revenge on V, give something like Draconomicon a skim assuming that applies in here, dragons don't like each other even within the same species well the chromatic ones at least. They aren't going to go out of their way to get revenge on someone who gave them new places to increase their hoards.

[Kish]

All very good points, especially with all the pointy things around V.

Also to all you saying that every dragon wants revenge on V, give something like Draconomicon a skim assuming that applies in here, dragons don't like each other even within the same species well the chromatic ones at least.
When the ancient black dragon first appeared, people were saying no black dragon would care about the death of a child and that, if "he" was actually related to the other black dragon at all, it had to be all about the hoard being stolen. They were wrong, as it turned out.

[shadowkiller]

When the ancient black dragon first appeared, people were saying no black dragon would care about the death of a child and that, if "he" was actually related to the other black dragon at all, it had to be all about the hoard being stolen. They were wrong, as it turned out.

True but I think there is a difference between a child and some random dragons of another type. Now if this were a black dragon I could see it being a problem, or who knows anything could happen as Rich dosen't have to follow any of those guidelines for dragons.

[RMcMurtry]

All very good points, especially with all the pointy things around V.

Also to all you saying that every dragon wants revenge on V, give something like Draconomicon a skim assuming that applies in here, dragons don't like each other even within the same species well the chromatic ones at least. They aren't going to go out of their way to get revenge on someone who gave them new places to increase their hoards.

If Tiamat's put a price on V's head, they'd care about that. Or possibly if they feel draconic honor is insulted, or just for the bragging rights of taking down Vaarsuvius Dragonbane.

[Bavarian itP]

Fear of V is probably the only force capable of lifting the Empress of blood from her seat :smalltongue:

[Danne]

[The IFCC] promised that, and they know themselves that V is the center of execution of their plan, which means they need V alive and well. Eating V is bad for IFCC business, so it makes sense they made sure mama dragon would leave V alone for now.


We can't rule out the possibility that the IFCC didn't told Tiamat about V, because if Tiamat realizes V is integral for the IFCC plan, she can add two and two together and realize the IFCC plan involves something with the Snarl. And it's not like the Gods like people messing up with the Snarl thing.

Hold on, I think I'm missing something. I thought the IFCC wanted Vaarsuvius to spook Xykon so that he'd finally go after the next gate (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0668.html). What makes you think that s/he's integral to their grand plan? Is there a bonus strip that says something about that (*does not own the books*) or did I miss something in the comic itself?

[Fallbot]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0656.html

"If the elf dies here, this whole thing was a huge waste of time," suggests that they have plans for hir beyond forcing Xykon out of his comfort zone, something that had already been accomplished.

And in the strip you linked to: "More like it was a foreseeable consequence of the deal we were already putting together," with regards to V's attack.

[Danne]

Hmm, okay. So nothing definite ("The elf is integral to our evil plans, mwahahaha!" sort of thing) but a lot of implications which seem to point that way. Gotcha. Thanks!

[Almaseti]

Tiamat probably doesn't know that V is integral to IFCC's plans, and wouldn't much care if she did. I doubt she's willing to just let V off the hook, either.

[tomandtish]

My 2 coppers:

While I doubt this is going to be an issue during this part of the plot (only because I think Elan is going to be much more central), it’s certainly not out of the realm of possibility. In looking at what the IIFC actually said, it sounds like they managed to convince Tiamat it’s part of a plot to bring down the gods of good , which doesn’t preclude the possibility of her changing her mind OR discovering through other sources that this is not true (or the entire truth).

As for Shadowkiller’s comments about other chromatic dragons not seeking revenge, it may not be about revenge, but fear.

Put yourself in their shoes:

You are a being of great power and magic, and there are others that are similar to you in power, broken down into 5 subspecies. Suddenly, 1 of those subspecies loses 25% of its population to an unknown cause. This has to be a little scary, especially when you realize they all died at the same time.

So you go to the oracle and ask who did this, and get the answer “ Vaarsuvius” or “A member of the Order of the Stick” or “An androgynous character created by Rich Burlew”. Now you have a starting place. And remember, you probably don’t know why he/she did this. For all you know, this was a failure and the goal was to wipe out ALL the black dragons.

So I have a person out there who has wiped out 25% of the members of one race of my species (that’s how I see dragons – all the same species but different races within the species. Feel free to disagree). And there’s nothing to indicate he/she WON’T target me and my race next.

It’s called pre-emptive self-defense (rightly or wrongly). In the eyes of dragon-kind, V poses a significant threat to the well-being of the species (especially the evil races since that was his/her first target). Some of them will have to wonder when V will turn this power on them, and will start taking steps to neutralize him or her.

Bottom line, I can easily see V becoming a popular target for dragons if they learn what he/she did. I don’t think the story will go there now, but it quite possibly could down the road.

Incidentally, the other route is possible as well. I can just see it now:

Blue Dragon: May I say Sir or Madam, I love the way you handled those pesky blacks. Please, allow me to give you this scroll of 9th level spells from my trove as a sign of my appreciation. And if there’s anything I can ever do for you, please don’t hesitate to ask (and please don’t kill me).