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The Cat Goddess
2010-05-05, 12:08 AM
But I'd still like some opinions on the idea of a Changeling/Warshaper.

I was thinking of doing the Psychic Warrior/Tashalatora build, but adding some Warshaper and a level of Fist of the Forest (for Con-to-AC).

Level 1: Monk-1
Monk Feat: Improved Unarmed Strike
Monk Feat: Stunning Fist
Level Feat: Able Learner
Flaw Feat: Great Fortitude
Flaw Feat: (Diverse Background)

Level 2: Monk-2
Monk Feat: Monastic Training, Psychic Warrior

Level 3: Psychic Warrior-1
Fighter Bonus Feat: Power Attack
Level Feat: Knowledge Devotion

Level 4: Psychic Warrior-2
Fighter Bonus Feat: Combat Reflexes

Level 5: Psychic Warrior-3

Level 6: Psychic Warrior-4
Level Feat: Tashalatora

Level 7: Fist of the Forest-1

Level 8: Warshaper-1

Level 9: Warshaper-2
Level Feat: Standstill ?

Level 10: Warshaper-3

Level 11: Warshaper-4

Level 12+: Psychic Warrior?

Since Able Learner is a Feat available to both Humans & Doppelgangers, it should be acceptable for a Changeling to have.

If the DM allows Diverse Background (Races of Destiny, allows a half-human to pick a second Favored Class) then Multiclassing penalties aren't a problem. Otherwise, I have to go with Monk-3 & Psychic Warrior-3... then find another prestige class after level 12.

HunterOfJello
2010-05-05, 12:13 AM
*Obligatory Unarmed Swordsage Response.*

Prodan
2010-05-05, 12:14 AM
More levels of FotF and then 5 of Warmind?

sonofzeal
2010-05-05, 12:15 AM
Do you need Changeling? If your DM is enforcing multiclass penalties, getting Favoured Class in there will help tremendously.

If you use Mantled PsiWar, with the Natural World Mantle, you can get Metamorphosis fairly easily. You could make the leap to Warshaper that way as a Human (or Empty Vessel or Half Giant). If you do that, I'd take Extend Power, to get the most out of Metamorphosis.

(edit)

*Obligatory Unarmed Swordsage Response.*
He's doing Tashalatora Psiwar. There's no need for a OUSR this time.

HunterOfJello
2010-05-05, 12:21 AM
*Extra Obligatory Unarmed Swordsage Is Better Than Everything That Isn't A Wizard Post*

Optimystik
2010-05-05, 12:22 AM
If you go with Mantled Psywar, don't pick Natural World. Metamorphosis is the only bonus on that list, and the granted power is lackluster as well.

Go with an all-around good mantle instead, like Time or Freedom - then pick up Natural World on the sly via the Tap Mantle feat. It doesn't cost you any more feats than Expanded Knowledge would have, and you can learn Metamorphosis at Psywar 10 rather than Psywar 13.

Better yet, just be an Ardent - you're using Tashalatora, you're already a gish, so why gimp your manifesting any?


*Extra Obligatory Unarmed Swordsage Is Better Than Everything That Isn't A Wizard Post*

Nah, Tashalatora Ardent sends US crying back to the dojo.

Eldariel
2010-05-05, 12:26 AM
Nah, Tashalatora Ardent sends US crying back to the dojo.

Then came Sacred Fist and the revenge of Tier 1.

The Cat Goddess
2010-05-05, 12:27 AM
Do you need Changeling? If your DM is enforcing multiclass penalties, getting Favoured Class in there will help tremendously.

If you use Mantled PsiWar, with the Natural World Mantle, you can get Metamorphosis fairly easily. You could make the leap to Warshaper that way as a Human (or Empty Vessel or Half Giant). If you do that, I'd take Extend Power, to get the most out of Metamorphosis.

(edit)

SHe's doing Tashalatora Psiwar. There's no need for a OUSR this time.
(Fixed your last line for ya...)

I hadn't thought of Mantled PsiWarrior... but the PsiWarrior doesn't get 4th level powers until 10th level (that's what I'd need for Metamorphosis, right?)That means no Warshaper until 14th level at least. Or would it be PsyWar 13, which would keep me out of Warshaper until 17! :smallyuk:

Additionally, as a Changeling all the Warshaper abilities are in operation pretty-much 24/7... and they're a very handy bunch of abilities IMHO. Psionic Expansion + Morphic Weapons (unarmed attacks increase by one size catagory) + Morphic Reach (look ma, 15 foot reach!) gives very nice area control.

I had thought of Ardent, but I'm a Feat-Monger :smallbiggrin:

Optimystik
2010-05-05, 12:31 AM
Then came Sacred Fist and the revenge of Tier 1.

That's still not a Swordsage though :smalltongue:


I hadn't thought of Mantled PsiWarrior... but the PsiWarrior doesn't get 4th level powers until 10th level (that's what I'd need for Metamorphosis, right?). That means no Warshaper until 14th level at least.

Ardent gets it at 7 if you're considering that.



If the DM allows Diverse Background (Races of Destiny, allows a half-human to pick a second Favored Class) then Multiclassing penalties aren't a problem. Otherwise, I have to go with Monk-3 & Psychic Warrior-3... then find another prestige class after level 12.

Why would you need two Favored Classes? You're only combining two base classes, right? (Monk + manifesting class.) PrCs don't count for XP penalties.

Keld Denar
2010-05-05, 12:34 AM
Do note that Tashalatora only works with the class you declare in your Monastic Training choice. An option that would solve your multiclass woes would be to take Monastic Training for either War Mind or Slayer and hop into either or asap. That caps you at 12 levels of effective monk progression, but that still gives you Greater Flurry and with Superior Unarmed Strike, gives you the UAS damage of a 16th level monk (2d8 medium). If your DM allows a Monk Belt to stack with IUAS, you could get the full 20 level progression with only 9 levels of either Warmind or Slayer, but why not take the 10th.

You can get into War Mind as a Monk2/PsyWar3 and fully avoid multiclass penalties. Slayer would require Monk3/PsyWar3 due to the +4 BAB required. Alternatively, you could dip Elocator2 as a Monk2/PsyWar3, losing 1 ML but allowing you to get into Slayer without a MC penalty or superfluous Monk levels.

I think War Mind would be the best option. You only get 5th level powers max, whereas normally PsyWars get 6, but thats still allows you to take Metamorphasis as your 15th level Expanded Knowledge feat. If you don't mind bumping it back to 18th level, you could fit 2 levels of Warshaper and 1 of Fist of the Forest before you finish War Mind. That still leaves you with 2 levels to play with at the end of the build, and 2 more levels of Warshaper (total of 4) or the last 2 levels of FotF (total of 3) would work too.

Akal Saris
2010-05-05, 12:34 AM
Then came Sacred Fist and the revenge of Tier 1.

Whoa, this is turning into an 80's Kung Fu movie faster than you can say drunken boxing!

The Cat Goddess
2010-05-05, 12:37 AM
Ardent gets it at 7 if you're considering that.

That's very handy... still pushes Warshaper to 11th at least though... not to mention losing the two feats... though with an alternate fighting style monk, I could probably shuffle things around a bit.


Why would you need two Favored Classes? You're only combining two base classes, right? (Monk + manifesting class.) PrCs don't count for XP penalties.

Because if one base class (Monk) is level 2 and the other (PsyWar, Ardent) is level 4+, then you get an XP penalty. And Changeling's Favored Class is Rogue.

sonofzeal
2010-05-05, 12:44 AM
(Fixed your last line for ya...)

I hadn't thought of Mantled PsiWarrior... but the PsiWarrior doesn't get 4th level powers until 10th level (that's what I'd need for Metamorphosis, right?)That means no Warshaper until 14th level at least. Or would it be PsyWar 13, which would keep me out of Warshaper until 17! :smallyuk:

Additionally, as a Changeling all the Warshaper abilities are in operation pretty-much 24/7... and they're a very handy bunch of abilities IMHO. Psionic Expansion + Morphic Weapons (unarmed attacks increase by one size catagory) + Morphic Reach (look ma, 15 foot reach!) gives very nice area control.

I had thought of Ardent, but I'm a Feat-Monger :smallbiggrin:
If you're using Metamorph to qualify, you don't need Changeling, which frees you up to be Human, which frees up two whole levels of Monk, which means you can get it at level 11 and hit Warshaper at 12.

Changeling Warshapers are pretty awesome though, I won't deny.