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crazedloon
2010-05-05, 10:44 AM
How would reducing all spell durations by 1 step (hour-> minute, Minute-> round, round-> concentration (up to the normal length)) effect the game? What if the action for concentration was reduced to a move action? What if rules were implemented to allow concentration on more than 1 spell (perhaps need and actual check and have the DC increase with each additional spell)

Would this bring some of the power of the mage inline with the other classes? Particularly if a lot of the normal battlefield control can be disrupted because it requires concentration.

WarKitty
2010-05-05, 11:01 AM
Mages are already pretty powerful, imo. If I were to change anything it would be to make the warriors more powerful.

Greenish
2010-05-05, 11:05 AM
How would reducing all spell durations by 1 step (hour-> minute, Minute-> round, round-> concentration (up to the normal length)) effect the game? What if the action for concentration was reduced to a move action? What if rules were implemented to allow concentration on more than 1 spell (perhaps need and actual check and have the DC increase with each additional spell)

Would this bring some of the power of the mage inline with the other classes? Particularly if a lot of the normal battlefield control can be disrupted because it requires concentration.DMM: Persist.

Besides, you'd mess up pretty much everyone who uses magic. There are plenty of magic users who aren't gods.

Optimystik
2010-05-05, 11:29 AM
It would make buffing less viable, and casters would lean more to instant spells like Save-or-Dies.

Assuming you remove Persist Spell along with this, it would also make it very hard for buffs to last while players sleep. Not necessarily a bad thing, but definitely worth thinking about.

The trouble I have with this "fix," is that it nerfs everyone, not just the caster. Having to concentrate on the Fighter's Haste just means the cleric is less likely to buff him with it, and more likely to attack the monsters directly.

crazedloon
2010-05-05, 04:38 PM
The trouble I have with this "fix," is that it nerfs everyone, not just the caster. Having to concentrate on the Fighter's Haste just means the cleric is less likely to buff him with it, and more likely to attack the monsters directly.

but when the cleric no longer has all his own buffs is it not more viable to buff the fighter who has many of the abilities which need to be emulated with buffs (high BaB many combat oriented feats presumably a better damage output without magic)

Also I assumed persist would be gotten rid of or else it would simply be reduced like all the other times :smallwink: (24 hours -> 24 minutes)

save or dies have always been a subpar option (not bad just not on par with other options)

again the fix also would take into account needed concentration time reducing the time to maintain concentration to 1 move action so that other buffs/combat maneuvers are still possible

I will admit that this change has a slight problems when incorporating crafted items (which other classes still use). Perhaps potions will last as long as the spells max time limit (if the caster concentrated the entire time) and all other items (Which more accurately represent and replace actual casting) require the user to concentrate. Thus the fight can still drink a potion of bull strength but a rogue reading a scroll of haste will need to concentrate.

J.Gellert
2010-05-05, 04:54 PM
Changing durations doesn't solve the issue of persistent effects and the like. Besides, a mage only needs 2 rounds to kill you (tops) and he can cast all his buffs while timestopped in another plane a few rounds before that, so duration isn't an issue. Assuming that's what you want to do, here's a fun thing you can do instead:

"A wizard can only maintain a number of ongoing spells equal to his intelligence modifier at any given time."

(Sorcerers use charisma, and so on.)

Durations aren't changed, but you can't have many buffs at once. Or debuffs. Or contingencies. Or walls of fire. Or anything with a duration...

Haven't ever tried it, or heard about it in play from anyone else, so consider this a thought experiment.

Akal Saris
2010-05-05, 05:10 PM
Well, it weakens casters, that's for sure. Let's see:

1. Round/level duration spells aren't worthwhile any more. Greater Invis might still be good for sneaking into places actually. But this would kill Haste unless you were able to concentrate on more than 1 spell. Summoning also takes a serious hit to effectiveness.
2. Mins/level buffs become combat buffs, so still alright. Still some solid buffs for this.
3. No hour-long duration buffs won't hurt casters too much. Mage armor gets replaced by bracers of armor at mid level, magic vestment and magic weapon just don't get cast. Mostly means they won't spend those slots buffing the melees.
4. Instantaneous spells are more valuable than before, so blasting, save-or-die, or spell effects like animate dead and teleport are all comparatively untouched. Same for permanent effects like polymorph and object.

Overall, I'd say conjuration, enchantment, abjuration, and transmutation would be hit hardest by this change, while evocation and necromancy wouldn't see much change, and illusion already requires a lot of concentration. So it hurts the strongest schools (and enchantment), which is fine by me. Will it make the game more fun or balanced? Eh, probably not more fun, maybe slightly more balanced.