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Ixil
2010-05-05, 05:56 PM
Heyall!

Got a question regarding the Bardic Music ability... It states, at least in some uses of it, that it affects only allies...

Does that include the bard? I say yes, but my DM says it probably doesn't... This discussion appeared when I read the Hymn of Healing in Complete Champion where it says the Hymn will make allies get a bonus the rolls for their healing spells...

Thanks!

Pluto
2010-05-05, 06:01 PM
PHB p304:
ally: A creature friendly to you. In most cases, references to “allies” include yourself.

Raging Gene Ray
2010-05-05, 10:29 PM
Unless it specifically says it cannot effect the bard (such as with Inspire Greatness and Inspire Competence), allies includes the bard.

Optimystik
2010-05-05, 10:31 PM
Note that this was changed in 4e - "ally" now excludes you by default.

Swordgleam
2010-05-05, 10:34 PM
Note that this was changed in 4e - "ally" now excludes you by default.

I once saw someone argue that "enemy" in 4e included you since it was defined as "a creature not your ally" or somesuch. It was a kind of clever use of a hellock's curse on yourself to keep bringing you back up if you dropped, but was still very very silly.

Autopsibiofeeder
2010-05-06, 12:50 AM
Unless it specifically says it cannot effect the bard (such as with Inspire Greatness and Inspire Competence), allies includes the bard.

Inspire Greatness explicitly states that it can affect the bard, doesn't it? I am just nitpicking here: Raging Gene Ray's statement is solid, but the example may lead to new confusion at Ixil's table :). Or is this a 4th edition thing?

Draken
2010-05-06, 07:20 AM
I once saw someone argue that "enemy" in 4e included you since it was defined as "a creature not your ally" or somesuch. It was a kind of clever use of a hellock's curse on yourself to keep bringing you back up if you dropped, but was still very very silly.

It does corroborate the saying that your greatest enemy is yourself.

Ixil
2010-05-06, 07:56 AM
All this answers... References to 4th...

must... remain... sane...





Thanks dudes, been a great help! :smallwink:

Obi-Juan
2010-05-06, 01:29 PM
I hate bard. It's a fake class, like Monk and Tainted Scholar. They don't really exist...

Virtuoso makes a better bard than bard does. As does an imagist (Don't judge me)

Here's the Omni-"Bard":

Race: Human or Azurin (My preference)
Class: Imagist 10/Virtuoso 4/Master of Masks 1/Suel Archanamach 4/Sandshaper 1

Yora
2010-05-06, 01:38 PM
I once saw someone argue that "enemy" in 4e included you since it was defined as "a creature not your ally" or somesuch. It was a kind of clever use of a hellock's curse on yourself to keep bringing you back up if you dropped, but was still very very silly.
That's not clever, that's just plain cheating. ^^

Obi-Juan
2010-05-06, 01:41 PM
That's not clever, that's just plain cheating. ^^

Amen Yora. That's almost like reading DW Kobold

Ixil
2010-05-06, 04:06 PM
By the way, and in a question not so related to the last one, can a bard cast spells while wearing spiked gauntlets in both hands?

nedz
2010-05-06, 04:29 PM
Gauntlets:
Apply the Arcane Spell Failure Chance, Cast a spell without Semantic Components OR use Still Spell etc.

Greenish
2010-05-06, 04:31 PM
Amen Yora. That's almost like reading DW KoboldSo everyone who has browsed through Races of Dragon is a cheater?

By the way, and in a question not so related to the last one, can a bard cast spells while wearing spiked gauntlets in both hands?Yeah. He can even cast spells with Somatic components.

Ixil
2010-05-06, 04:39 PM
Gauntlets:
Apply the Arcane Spell Failure Chance, Cast a spell without Semantic Components OR use Still Spell etc.

And what would be the Arcane Spell Failure Chance for a couple of Spiked Gauntlets?

Greenish
2010-05-06, 04:42 PM
Gauntlets:
Apply the Arcane Spell Failure Chance, Cast a spell without Semantic Components OR use Still Spell etc.Fancy that. Where did you find those rules?

Ixil
2010-05-06, 04:48 PM
Fancy that. Where did you find those rules?

Wondering that myself...

AtwasAwamps
2010-05-06, 04:54 PM
Note that this was changed in 4e - "ally" now excludes you by default.

DO you have a reference for this so I can strangle a certain DM?

Pluto
2010-05-06, 07:09 PM
Race: Human or Azurin (My preference)
Class: Imagist 10/Virtuoso 4/Master of Masks 1/Suel Archanamach 4/Sandshaper 1
My head hurts, just trying understand what this is for.

Escheton
2010-05-06, 07:54 PM
bardbarians are build around being their own ally.
So yeah, works.

Kylarra
2010-05-06, 07:58 PM
DO you have a reference for this so I can strangle a certain DM?PHB pg 57 "Target"

Optimystik
2010-05-06, 08:00 PM
Gauntlets:
Apply the Arcane Spell Failure Chance, Cast a spell without Semantic Components OR use Still Spell etc.

Semantic Component: You must nitpick endlessly about how this spell works each time you cast it.

(couldn't resist)


DO you have a reference for this so I can strangle a certain DM?

"When a power’s target entry specifies that it affects you and one or more of your allies, then you can take advantage of the power’s effect along with your teammates. Otherwise, “ally” or “allies” does not include you, and both terms assume willing targets."

4e PHB, page 57.

Ixil
2010-05-07, 06:23 PM
Semantic Component: You must nitpick endlessly about how this spell works each time you cast it.

(couldn't resist)



:smallbiggrin:



Apparently, after commiting the heresy of checking other forums :smalleek:, the question of casting arcane spells is a bit controverse...

Ixil
2010-05-08, 06:12 PM
Well, I think I'll be able to cast spells with the gauntlet... Now, to convince my DM to use a Crystal Echoblade as a cutlass instead of a longsword...

Greenish
2010-05-08, 06:16 PM
Now, to convince my DM to use a Crystal Echoblade as a cutlass instead of a longsword...What's the difference?

The Glyphstone
2010-05-08, 06:20 PM
I hate bard. It's a fake class, like Monk and Tainted Scholar. They don't really exist...

Virtuoso makes a better bard than bard does. As does an imagist (Don't judge me)

Here's the Omni-"Bard":

Race: Human or Azurin (My preference)
Class: Imagist 10/Virtuoso 4/Master of Masks 1/Suel Archanamach 4/Sandshaper 1

Well sure. Bards are weak if you replace them with material from the Book of Erotic Cheese.:smallconfused:

Divide by Zero
2010-05-08, 06:59 PM
Well sure. Bards are weak if you replace them with material from the Book of Erotic Cheese.:smallconfused:

The phrase "erotic cheese" gives me a sudden inexplicable urge to go to 4chan.

Ixil
2010-05-09, 03:55 PM
What's the difference?

Well, my DM seems to think specific weapons are, well, specific... Apparently there are some specific weapons that if you used them with other "base" weapon, would destroy the equilibrium of the game...

holywhippet
2010-05-09, 04:58 PM
Gauntlets:
Apply the Arcane Spell Failure Chance, Cast a spell without Semantic Components OR use Still Spell etc.

I don't see any support for that in the SRD at a glance. Gauntlets and spiked gauntlets are listed as weapons so they don't give arcane spell failure chances. Gauntlets do come with certain types of armour, but it's the armour in total that provides spell failure odds - not any individual component.

Locked gauntlets on the other hand prevent spell casting with a somatic component from what I can see.

Darklord Xavez
2010-05-09, 05:14 PM
I hate bard. It's a fake class, like Monk and Tainted Scholar. They don't really exist...

What's a bard?
-Xavez

Gnaeus
2010-05-09, 05:15 PM
What's a bard?
-Xavez

The king of Laketown.

Darklord Xavez
2010-05-09, 05:22 PM
The king of Laketown.

Awesome! That means that I'm a bard!:elan:
-Xavez

Ixil
2010-06-29, 08:30 AM
My party seems to think that a Crystal Echoblade (MIC) for its price, is overkill in the hands of a bard... Do you guys share the same oppinion? Why so and/or why not?

El Dorado
2010-06-29, 08:49 AM
My party seems to think that a Crystal Echoblade (MIC) for its price, is overkill in the hands of a bard... Do you guys share the same oppinion? Why so and/or why not?

Possibly. At low levels, the extra damage is comparable to other +d6 weapons and this damage only kicks in when you use bardic music. You thus lose a standard action activating the sword. Also, the sword won't work in a silence spell.

The raised eyebrows come in when you start dual wielding crystal echoblades, use white raven tactics to activate the swords, and full attack in the same round, and never really encounter anything with sonic resistance.
They also work nicely with whirling blade spells.

The biggest drawback is that you're committed to the bard class to get the most out of the swords. No sublime chord.

Ixil
2010-06-30, 03:58 PM
Possibly. At low levels, the extra damage is comparable to other +d6 weapons and this damage only kicks in when you use bardic music. You thus lose a standard action activating the sword. Also, the sword won't work in a silence spell.

The raised eyebrows come in when you start dual wielding crystal echoblades, use white raven tactics to activate the swords, and full attack in the same round, and never really encounter anything with sonic resistance.
They also work nicely with whirling blade spells.

The biggest drawback is that you're committed to the bard class to get the most out of the swords. No sublime chord.

Usually I don't like overkill... My char is, at the moment, 4 Ftr/1 Brd... He uses the sword as a main weapon, and uses a spiked gauntlet on the other hand (I got the Two-Weapon Fighting and Two-Weapon Defense feats) and plan to enchant the gauntlet with the harmonizing enchantment and other useful defensive stuff... Also, no ToB stuff...