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The Pressman
2010-05-05, 10:12 PM
It's a long story, but...

In a classic D&D setting, would Baking Soda (sodium bicarbonate) be available?

senrath
2010-05-05, 10:14 PM
It's up to the DM, but I'd go with "probably, but not necessarily as you know it." Sodium bicarbonate is a naturally occurring substance (on Earth, anyway), so it might occur naturally in D&D as well. But there's no guarantee that anyone would have figured out how to refine it into a usable product.

Anyway, it's really up to your DM.

Yorrin
2010-05-05, 10:15 PM
Sure. There's got to be someone with ranks in Craft: Alchemy that can make some for you. Find someone with Knowledge: Alchemy to discover that this is what you need, if your DM thinks it's too contrived for your character to suddenly come up with on his/her own.

Optimystik
2010-05-05, 10:15 PM
Ancient Egyptians used it, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baking_soda#History) so why not?

Maybe put it in Mulhorand to stay somewhat authentic.

CrypticOcean
2010-05-05, 10:17 PM
I do not think Baking Soda saw much use in the Middle Ages(the typical D&D setting, or at least, something similar to a Euromedieval backdrop). I believe the early 18th Century was when it first started to see any amount of use. Although it is a resource that is able to be mined from deposits, so, I see no real reason why there can be mithril and adamantine, but no sodium bicarbonate.

Optimystik
2010-05-05, 10:19 PM
It occurs naturally (as natron) and did not need to be mined - therefore, it can feasibly pop up even in a low-industry setting like D&D.

Swordgleam
2010-05-05, 10:25 PM
I swear someone asked this a couple weeks ago because their group wanted to use advanced forensics or something. I think the general consensus was that it existed.

gbprime
2010-05-05, 10:26 PM
BIcarbonate is rare and didn't become artificially produced until the 19th century. But sodium carbonate is much more common and was used by the Egyptians for cleaning and for making glass.

So I suppose an alchemist could BI- up some carbonate for you. But that wouldn't be cheap enough for mundane uses such as cooking and cleaning.

Scorpions__
2010-05-05, 10:27 PM
Sure. There's got to be someone with ranks in Craft: Alchemy that can make some for you. Find someone with Knowledge: Alchemy to discover that this is what you need, if your DM thinks it's too contrived for your character to suddenly come up with on his/her own.

What is this Knowlede: Alchemy you speak of?






DM[F]R

The Pressman
2010-05-05, 10:31 PM
I swear someone asked this a couple weeks ago because their group wanted to use advanced forensics or something. I think the general consensus was that it existed.

Interestingly enough, that's kinda why I'm asking.

Yorrin
2010-05-05, 10:31 PM
What is this Knowlede: Alchemy you speak of?

DM[F]R

Is this a houserule of mine? I could have sworn it shows up in some manual or another... And it does make sense.

Optimystik
2010-05-05, 10:38 PM
You can create any Knowledge skill you want (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/knowledge.htm), RAW.

Though I suppose it might be redundant with Craft (Alchemy) in this case.

urbanpirate
2010-05-05, 10:44 PM
kidneys produce bicarb. you just need a twisted necro or an artificer with a frankenstienesqe outlook to make you a kidney golem or some such crazyness

Fhaolan
2010-05-05, 10:45 PM
Yes, sodium bicarbonate was available in medieval times. It was just very impure, with a lot of regular sodium carbonate in there. This will mess up the forensic properties of it, but it will still make a good washing powder. :smallcool:

Anyplace that has glass manufacture will have lots of this stuff on hand, as well.

Ravens_cry
2010-05-06, 01:49 AM
Could someone explain what Sodium Bicarbonate and forensics have to do with each other?

2xMachina
2010-05-06, 03:51 AM
You can create any Knowledge skill you want (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/knowledge.htm), RAW.

Though I suppose it might be redundant with Craft (Alchemy) in this case.

Knowledge: Physics is RAW legal! Bring on the Anti-matter bombs!

The Pressman
2010-05-06, 10:00 PM
Could someone explain what Sodium Bicarbonate and forensics have to do with each other?

DNA sequencing uses NaHCO3 as a buffer ingredient, allowing for the reading of DNA.

Ravens_cry
2010-05-07, 12:29 AM
DNA sequencing uses NaHCO3 as a buffer ingredient, allowing for the reading of DNA.
Considering that the most grievous injuries can be fixed by pumping the body full of energy, and anything can reproduce with just about anything, do creatures even have DNA in D&D?:smallconfused:

The Pressman
2010-05-07, 09:22 PM
Considering that the most grievous injuries can be fixed by pumping the body full of energy, and anything can reproduce with just about anything, do creatures even have DNA in D&D?:smallconfused:

In my group, the general consensus will probably be yes. Besides, all those things are done by MAGIC!

Godskook
2010-05-08, 12:44 AM
In my group, the general consensus will probably be yes. Besides, all those things are done by MAGIC!

Half-Dragon might've been made with magic, but its a far more common form of magic.

Kiren
2010-05-08, 12:50 AM
If DNA exists in dnd, it must be terrible for a character that worships a sun god.

The Pressman
2010-05-08, 12:51 AM
If DNA exists in dnd, it must be terrible for a character that worships a sun god.

Why? I'm new to D&D, so there's probably something I'm missing.

CapnVan
2010-05-08, 06:18 AM
Why? I'm new to D&D, so there's probably something I'm missing.

Um, 'cos solar radiation causes cancer? And presumably, if you worship a sun deity, you spend lots of time in the sun, increasing your exposure.

The Pressman
2010-05-08, 11:44 AM
Ah, sorry. Didn't see that.

Lysander
2010-05-08, 11:50 AM
This poses an interesting question. Do healing spells cure hp damage from cancer? Because technically the cancer is alive and part of you, so you could argue that it would be healed too...

Ravens_cry
2010-05-08, 11:53 AM
This poses an interesting question. Do healing spells cure hp damage from cancer? Because technically the cancer is alive and part of you, so you could argue that it would be healed too...No, that would fall under 'remove disease' (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/removeDisease.htm)

IonDragon
2010-05-08, 11:54 AM
This poses an interesting question. Do healing spells cure hp damage from cancer? Because technically the cancer is alive and part of you, so you could argue that it would be healed too...

In my group, it's commonly accepted that Divine healing CAUSES cancer since you're pumping the body full of energy causing rapid cell division, which sometimes continues even when the divine energy is gone.

On a related note, Arcane healing (Bards, if you're wondering) causes the loss of lifespan. Arcane healing does not create energy or pump it from some powerful being, so it's drawn from your life force shortening the time you have.

EDIT: Cancer is neither a disease nor a parasite. Remove Disease would have no effect.

Ravens_cry
2010-05-08, 11:59 AM
EDIT: Cancer is neither a disease nor a parasite. Remove Disease would have no effect.
What? "Cancer is not a disease'? What hast thou been imbibing and how canst I avoid all exposure thereof?

Vizzerdrix
2010-05-08, 12:07 PM
I think cancer would be close enough to a Necrotic Cyst for the cyst removal process to work on it. You'd just have to kill that area of the body first. More than likely with injections of any poison that causes flesh necrosis.

IonDragon
2010-05-08, 12:19 PM
What? "Cancer is not a disease'? What hast thou been imbibing and how canst I avoid all exposure thereof?

After referencing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disease) sources (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer), allow me to clarify: Were I running, Remove Disease would not cure cancer for the same reason that antibodies don't target cancer in the way we would like. My medical knowledge is limited to House, so I may be mistaken on this point. Also for the purpose of population control. Aside from violent bloody death, there should be something that commonly kills people that isn't stopped by visiting the temple that houses a level 5+ Cleric.

Ravens_cry
2010-05-08, 12:32 PM
After referencing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disease) sources (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer), allow me to clarify: Were I running, Remove Disease would not cure cancer for the same reason that antibodies don't target cancer in the way we would like. My medical knowledge is limited to House, so I may be mistaken on this point. Also for the purpose of population control. Aside from violent bloody death, there should be something that commonly kills people that isn't stopped by visiting the temple that houses a level 5+ Cleric.
Yeah, the expense. Most people can not afford to spend 150 gp to get Uncle Wally's tumour out. Adventurers and nobility are the elite exception. Even if a benevolent cleric is giving them away for free, how many 5th level clerics are there? And the amount they can do is limited. Also disease: (http://www.merriam-webster.com/medlineplus/disease) an impairment of the normal state of the living animal or plant body or one of its parts that interrupts or modifies the performance of the vital functions. Since cancer causes death,I would say that qualifies as an impairment.

Kalirren
2010-05-08, 12:40 PM
DNA sequencing uses NaHCO3 as a buffer ingredient, allowing for the reading of DNA.


A buffer ingredient? is that all you're looking for? I'm a microbiologist, and I tell you, there's a lot more to it than the darned buffer. Besides, you'd think that the clerics of whatever life deity in the campaign setting would be able to use some sort of magical ritual to do whatever it was you wanted to do with the DNA.

Are you trying to do a paternity test or something? If so the gods of Aristocracy might be an even bigger help.

IonDragon
2010-05-09, 10:01 AM
Also disease: (http://www.merriam-webster.com/medlineplus/disease) an impairment of the normal state of the living animal or plant body or one of its parts that interrupts or modifies the performance of the vital functions.

It would seem to me that a sword through the gut would also qualify.

RE: Cost - It would seem to me that in a small town (say 1k <=) you could get a level 1 Cleric to level 5 rather quickly simply by repelling regular attacks/RP xp (Since they're always in character). And if it's a Cleric of a good God, you wouldn't think they'd say "No, unless you get the gold I won't do this thing that costs me nothing and you're going to die,"

EDIT: This is why I don't run D&D games.

Starshade
2010-05-09, 11:23 AM
Why reinvent the wheel? Isnt it simpler to go with magic or psionics, and say, make an investigator prestige class,who give same progress as your original class, but includes magical/psionical investigator skills?

Ravens_cry
2010-05-09, 12:46 PM
It would seem to me that a sword through the gut would also qualify.
Read the rest of the definition. Now this is a medical definition, cancer doesn't exist by RAW
[in] response to environmental factors (as malnutrition, industrial hazards, or climate), to specific infective agents (as worms, bacteria, or viruses), to inherent defects of the organism (as genetic anomalies), or to combinations of these factors.


RE: Cost - It would seem to me that in a small town (say 1k <=) you could get a level 1 Cleric to level 5 rather quickly simply by repelling regular attacks/RP xp (Since they're always in character). And if it's a Cleric of a good God, you wouldn't think they'd say "No, unless you get the gold I won't do this thing that costs me nothing and you're going to die,"


EDIT: This is why I don't run D&D games.
The typical cleric is probably closer to the cloistered cleric variant. He or She isn't going to be off adventuring unless forced to all Hobbit like.

hamishspence
2010-05-09, 12:51 PM
Well, the BoVD disease specialist PRC is called the cancer mage.

So I'm guessing that in D&D it would be called a disease.

BRC
2010-05-09, 12:52 PM
Remember that, in terms of leveling, PC's are rather lucky. They're fed a steady stream of level-appropriate encounters.
For every group that dosn't run into Ogres until they've finished killing Goblins, there are probably five groups that get smashed to pieces by a hill giant their first time out, and ten groups that never see anything above a 2nd level bandit.

hamishspence
2010-05-09, 12:56 PM
I recall some of the early D&D novels emphasising this- in Spellfire the low-level party are lucky at first, then they get clobbered by a high level mage and a green dragon.

With only a couple of party members surviving to be taken prisoner.

And in another scene, a wizard and his apprentice run into the devils of Myth Drannor, and the wizard dies horribly.

The Pressman
2010-05-09, 05:33 PM
A buffer ingredient? is that all you're looking for? I'm a microbiologist, and I tell you, there's a lot more to it than the darned buffer. Besides, you'd think that the clerics of whatever life deity in the campaign setting would be able to use some sort of magical ritual to do whatever it was you wanted to do with the DNA.

Are you trying to do a paternity test or something? If so the gods of Aristocracy might be an even bigger help.

I've actually already planned it out, and all that I was stuck on was the baking soda. And yeah, I could do it by magic, but it would be fun to try it this way. Granted, the DM can say something like, "The God of Science smites you for being an unworthy false prophet of the Helix. You are plane-shifted to the elemental plane of fire. You die."
But I'd still like to try it.

IonDragon
2010-05-09, 05:42 PM
I have read your responses, and while I disagree, on a couple points I'm not going to continue to derail OPs thread any further. I'd be happy to continue the discussion if someone wanted to start a new thread.

Asbestos
2010-05-09, 06:36 PM
I've actually already planned it out, and all that I was stuck on was the baking soda. And yeah, I could do it by magic, but it would be fun to try it this way. Granted, the DM can say something like, "The God of Science smites you for being an unworthy false prophet of the Helix. You are plane-shifted to the elemental plane of fire. You die."
But I'd still like to try it.
Wait, are you doing full on PCR or running a gel or what exactly? Out of curiosity.

I wonder if D&D chimeras are actually chimeric...

The Pressman
2010-05-09, 07:03 PM
Wait, are you doing full on PCR or running a gel or what exactly? Out of curiosity.

I wonder if D&D chimeras are actually chimeric...

Gel-box. I could enlarge it simply by getting someone to copy/duplicate the sample, and get the requisite chemicals by arcane magic, but I'd like to try it this way.