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Tavar
2010-05-06, 12:54 PM
Large and Long Term Project Variant, DnD 3.5

Introduction

Dungeons and Dragons doesn’t handle large or long term projects very well. This is an attempt to fill the gap, and provide players a more tangible set of rules for altering the game world. Primarily, this is going to be concerned with building a community, and how one goes about establishing temporal power.

The Land

Not all land is created equal. Much of what you can and cannot do is determined by the land’s resources and natural hardships. If it’s a barren desert, barring very powerful magics, you aren’t going to be able to feed a small, sedentary village, much less a metropolis. The lands Natural Rating expresses the ease with which one lives in an area, and modifies many roles given later. Note that the ratings below are given for Humaniods. Some creatures have special abilities that make things easier in some environments, or even open new environments up altogether (for example, Merfolk can live underwater fine, and Cloud Giants live on clouds). Other have abilities that make things much harder in other areas (Merfolk don’t do to well on dry land). A good rule of thumb is to use the Natural Rating of the majority, though there can be exceptions.

Enviroments|Natural Rating|Explanation
Aquatic|5|One needs special equipment and magic to survive.
Desert|3|Hard to live, but one can do so with sacrifices, or magic.
Marsh |3|Hard to live, but one can do so with sacrifices, or magic.
Mountain|0|Some difficulties, but offers advantages all the same.
Forest|-3| Relatively easy to live, with many helpful commodities.
Plains|-5|As close to Celestia as you're likely to find


As a general rule, no non-supernatural place should have a rating above 5 or below -5. Note that this chart is not representative of all terrain types, and is simply there for a guide. Also, the areas are not homogeneous. Plains will have pockets of trees, and forests have clearings. This simply describes most of the terrain in an area.

Communities

In order to preform a long term project, you need people, and it's easier to have a stable population form which to draw on. Thus many projects start up around communities, or draw communities to them. The size of such communities is limited by the Natural Rating of the land. Terrain with NR 5 or more can't support any long term community. Terrain with NR 4 to 1 can support the occasional thorp or Hamlet, though they may have a large nomadic population. Terrain with NR 0 can support up to a small town. Terrain with NR -1 to -4 can support up to a small city. Terrain with NR -5 can support up to a Large city. Metropolises cannot be created without technology or magic, possibly both, and requires the DM to allow it.

Timing

Long Term is just that. Long. Thus, the standard DnD method of measuring time in rounds isn't applicable. Some Long term projects can be completed in a matter of weeks, though usually this requires rushed work. More often, such projects are the work of months, even years, especially when one takes into account the time necessary to gather materials, convince others of the necessity, and so on. Thus, long term projects are measured by months, with 12 months in a year.

Taking on tasks
Such projects also share a similarity with crafting magic items in that there’s a limit to how much you can do in a time period. It’s possible that you can speed things up with high use of magic, but generally it takes very high level magic (Wish, Miracle, and the like) to do the project effectively instantly. Unlike magic item crafting, though, you can take on multiple long term projects at a time. Every task has an Endurance cost, and characters have and Endurance Pool equal to 1/2 their level(rounded up) plus the greater of their constitution or intelligence modifiers. Each task that a player takes on over a time period reduces his endurance pool by it’s endurance cost, and the pool may not be reduced below zero. This cost is only paid by characters who are a major part of the operation. The Chief architect for a castle would pay this cost, not any of the laborer hauling the stone around.

Players can spilt a task between multiple characters, thus spreading out the endurance cost. If two people work together, each must only pay ¾ of the cost, rounded down. If three, 2/3, and if 4, ½. More people cannot effectively collaborate on a project as equals, though they may require a significant support staff to aid them, and the cost can never be reduced below 1. To use the above example, an Architect and his three main apprentices may split the cost when building a castle. They still require many manual laborers to complete the task. The people the Endurance cost is split with are called Partners.

In addition to Endurance costs, many projects also require support. In the above example, the manual laborers represent part of that support. There’s also mason, carpenters, suppliers, and soldiers to guard the project. Generally, as a tasks Dificulty increases, it’s required support increases as well.
{table=head]Project difficulty |Endurance costs |Support|Examples
1|1-3|None|Clearing Farmland for a Hamlet, training volunteer guard for a small town
2|3-5|1 Partner or 2-3 subordinates|Clearing Farmland for a Large Town, training professional guard for a Small City
3|6-9||
4|10-15||Building a medium castle, or a stone wall around a community
5|15-20||Building a Large Castle, Training an elite army
6|21+|As 5, plus multiple high level casters|Building a Huge Castle, worthy of the Blood War
[/table]

Resolution
The endurance cost(before reductions) multiplied by the difficulty represents how long a task takes in months. Each additional Partner reduces the time taken by 1/5, up to a maximum of 4 such reductions. All those giving the reductions must pay the endurance cost.

After every month, or week if the task takes less than 1 month to complete, all involved must make a skill or ability check. One may take ten on this check, but may not take 20. Only tasks with a difficulty of 1 require ability checks. If a skill check is used, one partners can use their skill ranks, or 1/2 the ranks of the partner with the highest ranks. If the latter, the partner with the highest skill must pay an additional 1 Endurance per person using this option, as the bonus represents him mentoring the individual. Partners may not use the aid another action for this check. If such an action is to be used, an addition helper must be used. They must pay half the endurance cost of the partner they are helping, and do not count for any other purposed.

The DC of the check is dependent on the difficulty rating of the task, plus terrain modifiers. Tasks also give experience, with a CR equal to the endurance cost, after reductions. This experience is split between everyone who has been a partner on the project. If they are no longer alive, the experience is wasted.

If the DC of the check is failed by more than 5, two time units of work per point failed beyond 5 is ruined, and must be redone. For example, the DC for a task is 20. The player gets a 16. He has failed by 4, and thus makes no progress, but nothing bad happens. Next unit, the player gets a 14. That's 1 less than 15, the cutoff point. He looses two months of work. If such a failure reduces the units of work done below zero, a horrible accident has occurred. What exactly has happened is up to the DM. For tasks such as clearing a field, perhaps the horse broke his leg, and had to be put down. If it's a more major undertaking, perhaps a section of wall collapsed, killing the workers. Or perhaps they dug to deep and to greedily, and awakened something in the deep.
{table=head] Difficulty rating|DC
1|10-12
2|15-17
3|20-25
4|27-33
5|35-40
6|42+[/table]

Description of tasks
Clearing Farmland- Clearing farmland is a tiresome process. You must tear up the current plant growth, take out stones, and section it if you want to have different crops. This uses a con check initially, but moves up to knowledge: Nature or Profession:Farmer at higher difficulties.

Raising a wall-Raising a wall is a difficult process. First, one must gather the supplies to build the structure of the wall itself, usually timber or stone for the outer portions, and rubble to fill the space in between. Then you have to prepare the ground. Unlike you're average house wall, these have to stand up to heavy hits. Thus, even with spells that can create solid walls (eg, Wall of Stone) can only shorten the time so much. A good rule of thumb is to decrease the time taken by XXX if such spells are easily available.

Tavar
2010-05-06, 12:56 PM
Post reserved if Necessary.

Havelock
2010-05-06, 04:14 PM
You could make a whole sourcebook on it's own based around the subject, heh.

Things off my head atm:

Factors to consider:
-Access to water (more of a limiting factor if anything else)
-Climate
-Soil fertility (alternatively fish/game abundance)
-Trade route access (oceans and rivers primarily)

Months may be a better time unit than seasons.

Creed
2010-05-06, 04:17 PM
...What about natural things such as ore deposits?
If the area is not a forest are there any trees? (if not the community will likely die with no firewood...)
Monsters in the area???
all suggestions

Tavar
2010-05-06, 05:43 PM
You could make a whole sourcebook on it's own based around the subject, heh.
True. This is actually for a game someone else and I are going to be running on the forums.



Things off my head atm:

Factors to consider:
-Access to water (more of a limiting factor if anything else)
-Climate
-Soil fertility (alternatively fish/game abundance)
-Trade route access (oceans and rivers primarily)
Yeah, going to address those points. Haven't typed up everything, though. I guess I should put up the disclaimer that the terrains listed don't include everything; they're meant to be guidelines.

Months may be a better time unit than seasons.
Oh? Any particular reason?

...What about natural things such as ore deposits?
If the area is not a forest are there any trees? (if not the community will likely die with no firewood...)
Monsters in the area???
all suggestions
Well, yeah. There are trees. Just like there's also Hills, streams, etc. The terrain list isn't exclusive.

Monsters are something that belongs in the standard DnD scale, unless they're an army, in which case it's fall under mass combat. Maybe I'll add something like that in the project later.

Havelock
2010-05-06, 07:18 PM
Mostly because of the speed of things. Also, if one chooses to use what few rules that fits the theme (DMG2 and stronghold builder's guidebook that I can think of), they work with day/week/month schedule.

Tavar
2010-05-06, 08:47 PM
Well, it wouldn't really change that much, so why not.

erikun
2010-05-07, 12:18 PM
It looks like you might need to divide up locations by both livability and resources. Plains are highly "livable" because there is lot of room to expand and plant/gather food. It's a terrible place to try gathering wood and stone to build a castle, though.

Tavar
2010-05-07, 05:14 PM
Right now, though, the terrain modifiers are only concerned with how livable it is. Getting resources would be a whole other aspect, and one that's much more complicated. Not sure how yo approach it.

PersonMan
2010-05-07, 05:49 PM
Right now, though, the terrain modifiers are only concerned with how livable it is. Getting resources would be a whole other aspect, and one that's much more complicated. Not sure how yo approach it.

I'm thinking you could give each terrain type a resource number, and then you could roll for/choose 'special features' such as iron ore, lots of streams, good game, etc.

Dumbledore lives
2010-05-07, 06:08 PM
Enviroments|Natural Rating|Explanation
Aquatic|5|One needs special equipment and magic to survive.
Desert|3|Hard to live, but one can do so with sacrifices, or magic.
Marsh |3|Hard to live, but one can do so with sacrifices, or magic.
Mountain|0|Some difficulties, but offers advantages all the same.
Forest|-3| Relatively easy to live, with many helpful commodities.
Plains|-5|As close to Celestia as you're likely to find


Communities

In order to preform a long term project, you need people, and it's easier to have a stable population form which to draw on. Thus many projects start up around communities, or draw communities to them. The size of such communities is limited by the Natural Rating of the land. Terrain with NR -5 or less can't support any long term community. Terrain with NR -4 to -1 can support the occasional thorp or Hamlet, though they may have a large nomadic population. Terrain with NR 0 can support up to a small town. Terrain with NR 1 to 4 can support up to a small city. Terrain with NR 5 can support up to a Large city. Metropolises cannot be created without technology or magic, possibly both, and requires the DM to allow it.

Now I'm confused by this bit, it looks like, since plains have a -5 NR, that they couldn't support a long term community, but that goes against the explanation. Are the numbers supposed to be switched around, with aquatic being -5, or am I missing something?

Tavar
2010-05-07, 06:35 PM
Ah, sorry. I switched the numbers on the chart when I realized that they would add to the DC, so it made more sense that way, but didn't switch them in the community description. I'll fix that now.

Havelock
2010-05-08, 07:19 PM
I would suggest that Hot or Cold climate adds +2 or +3 to the DC (with temperate climate adding nothing). You should perhaps also change the environment table by putting plains at +0 and open ocean at +10. Archipelago/Island is also missing, although depending on size you could treat that as whatever terrain fits the locale.

You may also want to consider different modifiers for different community sizes.

A metropolis not positioned at a major waterway (normally where two major rivers meet or where one major river runs out into the ocean) and there is an abundance of arable land around the place is pretty much unheard of, unless of course, there's powerful magic involved.

A hamlet can spring up wherever there is a decent natural harbour or enough arable land to support it.

Now, I'm just thinking out loud, so bear with me, and it doesn't really fit with the above, I do that sometimes:

What I would start with as a basis is what I choose to call the community growth modifier (CGM), you roll 1d20+CGM vs a DC set by the town size. If the roll is lower than the DC, the population goes down, if it's higher, the population drops. The climate and terrain would either go into the DC or the GCM.

The population increase per year is equal to (Roll-DC)*0.5% so a success by 10 means 5% growth, failure by 10 means 5% decline.

Suggested base DC's:
Thorp (20+): 25
For every +12 members: +1
Hamlet (80+): 30
For every +60 members: +1
Village (400+): 35
For every +30 members: +1
Small Town (900+): 50
For every +100 members: +1
large Town (2000+): 60
For every +150 members: +1
Small city (5000+): 80
For every +350 members: +1
large city (12000+): 100
For every +250 members: +1
Metropolis (25000+): 150
for every +500 members: +1


GCM modifiers:

Terrain type:
Plains: +10
Forest +5
Marsh: +0
Hills: +0
Mountains: -5
Desert: -5
Underground: -5
Open Ocean: -20
Clouds: -20

Climate type:
Warm: +5
Temperate: +0
Cold: -5
Hot: -5
Arctic: -10

Waterway access (bonuses from multiple rivers stacks):
Minor River: +2
Major River: +5
Situated at large lake: +2
Ocean access: +5
Natural harbour: +2
Large natural harbour: +5
River Delta (stacks with both ocean and river bonuses):
+3 if major (+2 if lake)
+1 if minor (+0 if lake)

Fresh water access:
No fresh water available: -20
Fresh water available within a day's march: -20
Fresh water available within an hour's walk: -10
Scarce watersources: -5
Sufficient watersources: +0
Abundance (relative) of fresh water: +10

Other factors I'm too tired to think of now:
-Trade
-Power center
-food production
-Industry
-Presence of temples, academies, holy sites etc...
-status in realm
-room for expansion
-number of monsters living in the area
-sanitary conditions
-agricultural or hunt/foraging based economy

The whole idea is to put up a "growth cap" that the community will not be able to outgrow. Generally, PC's would have to intervene through IC actions to boost the population if they don't want to wait for years for the place to grow.

Amiel
2010-05-08, 08:54 PM
Could you explain how plains are, in your own words, "as close to Celestia as you're likely to find"?
IIRC, Celestia is also known as the Seven Heavenly Mountains, there's probably a distinct lack of plains therein (you may be thinking of Arcadia?)
Or is your own cosmology rather different to that of the Great Wheel?

Tavar
2010-05-09, 12:10 PM
Celestia=Heaven, and is by all accounts a pretty ideal place to live. Hence, plains are the closest thing to ideal that you'll find.