PDA

View Full Version : Which is Better? <3.5>



Obi-Juan
2010-05-06, 01:07 PM
I am in a lv1 campaign. Here's my options:

1. Raptoran Druid (Swift Variant) 10/Skypledged 10 (Not in that order)

2. Sea Kin (Homebrewed to have waterbreathing) Cleric 10/Stormcaster 10 (See Above)

3. Tinker Gnome Artificer 2/Wu Jen 3/Ultimate Magus 10/Wu Jen 5

Amphetryon
2010-05-06, 01:10 PM
Option 2 is the strongest. It may or may not be 'best' depending on the rest of the party.

Obi-Juan
2010-05-06, 01:15 PM
Option 2 is the strongest. It may or may not be 'best' depending on the rest of the party.

We have the following:

Half-Drow Ninja10/Assassin10
Dwarf Barbarian10/Frenzied Berserker10
Elf Ranger20
Human Fighter10/Weapon Master10
Raptoran Scout10/Stormtalon10
Aquatic Half-Elf Cold Domain Wizard10/Frost Mage 10

The Cat Goddess
2010-05-06, 01:19 PM
Strongest Class would be the one that keeps you away from the Frenzied Berzerker. :smallbiggrin:

Kylarra
2010-05-06, 01:19 PM
Nice to see you again.

I'd go with gnome simply because you don't have one or anything remotely like it in your party yet.

TreesOfDeath
2010-05-06, 01:20 PM
Probably the 2nd, as your party looks like they don't have a healer

gbprime
2010-05-06, 01:23 PM
Probably the 2nd, as your party looks like they don't have a healer

With Spontaneous Healing feat, option 1 would get the healing aspect in. But Being able to fly is less useful when you have to keep coming down to the front line to heal people. (There's more feats to get around that, but that's kind of too many feats to get the job done.) So I concur, 2 is a better choice given the party mix.

Obi-Juan
2010-05-06, 01:25 PM
So summon storms and open up a 24 pack of Whoop-A$$ Brand Soda (Now in Grape and Margarita)?

Amphetryon
2010-05-06, 01:34 PM
Pretty much.

Doc Roc
2010-05-06, 01:34 PM
number 2. Number 3 is mechanically weak and I'm not even sure it's technically legal, number 1 is going to be weird and hard to RP.

Obi-Juan
2010-05-06, 01:36 PM
number 2. Number 3 is mechanically weak and I'm not even sure it's technically legal, number 1 is going to be weird and hard to RP.

I see how 3 is weak, but a Druid who is bound to Air Elementals, uses an Air Elemental Companion, and is Fast as the Wind?

Doc Roc
2010-05-06, 01:52 PM
I see how 3 is weak, but a Druid who is bound to Air Elementals, uses an Air Elemental Companion, and is Fast as the Wind?

Skypledged are canonically very xenophobic, is the issue.

Obi-Juan
2010-05-06, 01:53 PM
Skypledged are canonically very xenophobic, is the issue.

I have few options...The world is going to hell in a handbasket

Yorrin
2010-05-06, 02:08 PM
I'mma have to agree with those supporting #2. 10lvls of Druid just isn't enough Wildshape for me. Especially without access to MoMF.

The Cleric, though, is a solid build. Easily enough to go CoDzilla all over the place, and I've always had a liking of stormcasters. I don't suppose the DM is willing to allow Cloistered with the domain swap for Knowledge Devotion?

Obi-Juan
2010-05-06, 02:10 PM
I'mma have to agree with those supporting #2. 10lvls of Druid just isn't enough Wildshape for me. Especially without access to MoMF.

The Cleric, though, is a solid build. Easily enough to go CoDzilla all over the place, and I've always had a liking of stormcasters. I don't suppose the DM is willing to allow Cloistered with the domain swap for Knowledge Devotion?

It doesn't get Wildshape

Yorrin
2010-05-06, 02:13 PM
It doesn't get Wildshape

I knew I should've looked up what that variant did... it's been far too long since I've played a Druid.

That settles it, then- the Druid build has nothing going for it besides flight. Which a Travel Domain Cleric who takes the Spontaneous Domain Casting variant never really has to worry about.

Irreverent Fool
2010-05-06, 03:27 PM
Probably the 2nd, as your party looks like they don't have a healer

A Player's Guide to Healing and Why You Will Be Just Fine Without a Cleric (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871786/A_Players_Guide_to_Healing_(And,_why_you_will_be_J ust_Fine_without_a_Cleric_to_heal))

obnoxious
sig

Mauther
2010-05-06, 03:31 PM
Depending on the details I'd lean towards #3, but I'm an absolute whore for Ultiamte Magus so there's that.

Volthawk
2010-05-06, 03:37 PM
I am in a lv1 campaign. Here's my options:

1. Raptoran Druid (Swift Variant) 10/Skypledged 10 (Not in that order)

2. Sea Kin (Homebrewed to have waterbreathing) Cleric 10/Stormcaster 10 (See Above)

3. Tinker Gnome Artificer 2/Wu Jen 3/Ultimate Magus 10/Wu Jen 5

Well, I do like the Druid, but on the other hand I do like the Cleric.

But which is better? Druid or Cleric?

There's only one way to find out...

FIGHT! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Np6gyUb0E7o)

Greenish
2010-05-06, 03:40 PM
Strongest Class would be the one that keeps you away from the Frenzied Berzerker. :smallbiggrin:Does Calm Emotions (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/calmEmotions.htm) work on Frenzy?

Irreverent Fool
2010-05-06, 04:06 PM
Does Calm Emotions (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/calmEmotions.htm) work on Frenzy?

Unless something in frenzy says otherwise. But do you really want to get close enough to him to find out?

obnoxious
sig

Kylarra
2010-05-06, 04:07 PM
Eh, I'll concede that 2 is probably the best option, my choice was based purely on arbitrariness of base races.

Person_Man
2010-05-06, 04:13 PM
I am in a lv1 campaign. Here's my options:

1. Raptoran Druid (Swift Variant) 10/Skypledged 10 (Not in that order)

2. Sea Kin (Homebrewed to have waterbreathing) Cleric 10/Stormcaster 10 (See Above)

3. Tinker Gnome Artificer 2/Wu Jen 3/Ultimate Magus 10/Wu Jen 5

Although the Skypledged capstone is awesome, the PrC doesn't progress Wildshape or your Companion and prevents you from using all Water, Fire, and Earth spells. So it's weaker then regular Druid 20.

Stormcaster is a blaster PrC. Clerics tend to do best as buff-bots and battlefield controller. You also loose a caster level.

Does Ultimate Magus progress Artificer? They can't spontaneously cast arcane spells, and Infusions are "neither arcane nor divine." If so, why would you even want to be an Ultimate Magus? Has there ever been an occasion where you would use 60+ spells/infusions per day? And given the progression above, it looks like you won't hit 9th level spells or infusions on either side. And why Wu Jen, and not Wizard?

Anywho, if I had to choose, I'd go with Cleric/Stormcaster. But if your build goal is "Elemental Guy" I would go with Druid 20, or maybe Cleric 5/Full Progression PrC 5/Elemental Archon 10 (Faiths and Pantheons) which loses 2 caster levels, but you get suped up Mephit Underlings underlings, and your capstone transforms you into an elemental permanently (granting immunities, special abilities, etc).

Greenish
2010-05-06, 04:14 PM
Unless something in frenzy says otherwise. But do you really want to get close enough to him to find out?I was more thinking of him getting uncomfortably close to me.

The Cat Goddess
2010-05-06, 05:13 PM
I was more thinking of him getting uncomfortably close to me.

You mean... within line-of-sight?

(Can you tell that I'm not fond of Frenzied Berzerker PCs? :smallbiggrin:)

Doc Roc
2010-05-06, 05:22 PM
Well, it's unfortunate, but they are pretty much one of four or five really good warrior PrC in the entire game.

Greenish
2010-05-06, 05:23 PM
(Can you tell that I'm not fond of Frenzied Berzerker PCs? :smallbiggrin:)Mm, yeah, berserkers unable to control themselves work better in fiction than in cooperative game.

Doc Roc
2010-05-06, 05:28 PM
We had him willingly fail his save to be dominated by the wizard, then instructed him to not murder us but otherwise go about his business.

Prodan
2010-05-06, 05:33 PM
Mm, yeah, berserkers unable to control themselves work better in fiction than in cooperative game.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the FB's ability to flip out offer a will save or something?

Il_Vec
2010-05-06, 05:44 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the FB's ability to flip out offer a will save or something?

Yes, yes it does. Not a hard one, at that. And if the group wizard can keep a Grease spell handy, that just does the trick.

Person_Man
2010-05-07, 08:51 AM
Yes, yes it does. Not a hard one, at that. And if the group wizard can keep a Grease spell handy, that just does the trick.

The real issue with the Frenzied Berserker is that if he takes damage from any source (including traps, spells, attacks, etc) he must Save (DC = 10 + damage) or enter a Frenzy. Ending a Frenzy is just a DC 20 Will Save. But it's highly likely that you will burn through your Frenzy uses during the first combats (or traps) of each game day. You can't save them for when you need/want to. And eventually there's going to be a combat where the enemies are all dead, the Frenzied Berserker fails to make his Will Save, and he accidentally kills an ally that was close to death before the Wizard can cast Grease or the Cleric can cast Calm Emotions.

So FB is not as bad as many make it out to be, but it's not like there's a complete fix for it's built in weakness either. (Nor should there be really - you rolls your dice and you takes your chances).

Eldariel
2010-05-07, 08:58 AM
The real issue with the Frenzied Berserker is that if he takes damage from any source (including traps, spells, attacks, etc) he must Save (DC = 10 + damage) or enter a Frenzy. Ending a Frenzy is just a DC 20 Will Save. But it's highly likely that you will burn through your Frenzy uses during the first combats (or traps) of each game day. You can't save them for when you need/want to. And eventually there's going to be a combat where the enemies are all dead, the Frenzied Berserker fails to make his Will Save, and he accidentally kills an ally that was close to death before the Wizard can cast Grease or the Cleric can cast Calm Emotions.

So FB is not as bad as many make it out to be, but it's not like there's a complete fix for it's built in weakness either. (Nor should there be really - you rolls your dice and you takes your chances).

FB has more issues than that; the same things you can use to disable the FB can be used on enemy's side. Grease is the worst offender; easily quickened 1st level power/spell available to many classes and commonly prepared completely ****s you over. Doesn't matter how good Dex/Balance you've got, when you aren't allowed to make the checks. If you fly, you can avoid it somewhat until you get Disabled.

As you can't activate Magic Items in Frenzy, you're pretty ****ed in that regard too. Really, Frenzy is so limiting that it's pretty damn dangerous to player in the end, not because of any single contingency ****ing you over, but the sheer number of circumstances where it'll bite you in the ass. And yeah, you can't really be in the front without burning through your Rage-uses which sucks royally.

Obi-Juan
2010-05-07, 11:12 AM
So in short, a Blaster Priest is a good call, the flying Druid is an ok build, and the Artificer is an illegal build?