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View Full Version : Best social skills class? [4E]



Akal Saris
2010-05-06, 07:07 PM
So I'm curious how one would build a diplomancer in 4E - a character with all of the social-related skills and most of the knowledges, probably with a high int and cha. This is just for fun, I won't be playing one any time soon. Mostly I'm just curious how far you can take the concept.

Class: Bard, maybe?

Race: Human?

Paragon path/epic destiny: ??

Any good backgrounds or must-have feats? Equipment?

cupkeyk
2010-05-06, 07:23 PM
Definitely Prescient Bard, with WIS for insight and perception. Unfortunately both reflex and fort will suffer. Consider Kalashtar for telepathy 5(or changeling, you can burn a feat for telepathy 5). Both races have cha boosts but kalashtar also get wis. Get Mark of Scribing AND Linguist; that's seven languages. Add a Gem of Colloquy, a Polyglot Gem and a false Blood amulet for three more languages. That should be all the languages in the game.

Thajocoth
2010-05-06, 07:28 PM
Definitely Prescient Bard, with WIS for insight and perception. Unfortunately both reflex and fort will suffer. Consider Kalashtar for telepathy 5(or changeling, you can burn a feat for telepathy 5). Both races have cha boosts but kalashtar also get wis. Get Mark of Scribing AND Linguist; that's seven languages. Add a Gem of Colloquy, a Polyglot Gem and a false Blood amulet for three more languages. That should be all the languages in the game.

I was gonna say this with less words and precision. So... I'll just enchant a +1 enhancement bonus onto Cupkeyk's post instead.

demidracolich
2010-05-06, 07:34 PM
For telepathy there is also the shardmind, though it get +2 int instead of wis with a +2 cha.

cupkeyk
2010-05-06, 07:58 PM
For telepathy there is also the shardmind, though it get +2 int instead of wis with a +2 cha.

Oh, they do. Odd that its listed as a racial feature and not as a language as it does with the kalashtar.

Shardmind has a net gain of one language higher than kalashtar.

Akal Saris
2010-05-06, 10:13 PM
At the cost of looking like something out of an arcade game =P

Optimystik
2010-05-06, 11:02 PM
At the cost of looking completely awesome

Fixed that for you :smallwink:

cupkeyk
2010-05-06, 11:19 PM
to correct myself, they have a two language net gain over kalashtar.

But yeah, shardminds are totally ugly.

NeoVid
2010-05-06, 11:25 PM
Consider Kalashtar for telepathy 5(or changeling, you can burn a feat for telepathy 5).

Wait, there's a useful Changeling racial feat? What is it and where can I find it?

DragonBaneDM
2010-05-06, 11:26 PM
Half Elf fo sho. They get bonuses to Insight and Diplomacy, along with the aura for allies on Diplomacy checks and feats that can basically turn you all into Benjamin Franklin.

cupkeyk
2010-05-07, 12:24 AM
Wait, there's a useful Changeling racial feat? What is it and where can I find it?

The feat is called "becomer" from dragon 386. Choose a humanoid race, learn one additional language from their race block, gain +2 to one skill from their race block, gain +5 to disguise checks to imitate that race(on top of changeling disguise bonus).

That was why I pointed out the shardmind's telepathy is a racial feature and not a language, the changeling can choose kalashtar and choose telepathy but not shardmind. *shrug*

Kurald Galain
2010-05-07, 04:39 AM
So I'm curious how one would build a diplomancer in 4E - a character with all of the social-related skills and most of the knowledges, probably with a high int and cha.
Surprisingly, Gnome Wizard is a good choice for this: a L2 utility power allows you to substitute Arcana for Bluff or Diplomacy.

But if you must 'mance anything, the way to go is an Intimidator. That's because an oft-overlooked rule allows you to force any bloodied monster to surrender with a successful Intimidate check. This falls squarely into "no sane DM would allow this" territory, but by RAW it is extremely powerful.

Yakk
2010-05-07, 10:15 AM
It is a standard action that requires beating their will by 10 in most cases (most things in combat are hostile!) (less if you are just dueling).

L/2 + stat + 5 trained + 3 feat (6 if you go hide in epic) +2/tier item (epic) + 2 background - L -12
= -L/2 + stat -4 + 2/tier +3 with epic in hide
modifier against DC 10

With +5 +L/6 stat, 2/tier turned to L/5, we get:
= +1 -.13L + 3 with epic hide
vs DC 10.

It is slightly more efficient than just killing a non-elite/solo. The problem is with elites/solos (and that can mostly be fixed by adding in their "save" bonus to this DC).

DMs can also make monsters that don't tend to surrender flee. Or have them go passive, but if you attack again they respond.

cupkeyk
2010-05-07, 07:49 PM
Surprisingly, Gnome Wizard is a good choice for this: a L2 utility power allows you to substitute Arcana for Bluff or Diplomacy.

But if you must 'mance anything, the way to go is an Intimidator. That's because an oft-overlooked rule allows you to force any bloodied monster to surrender with a successful Intimidate check. This falls squarely into "no sane DM would allow this" territory, but by RAW it is extremely powerful.

+1 to this. Wizards gets some truly awesome, non-combat utility spells including memory to mist (ignore its purple rating, the rating system was designed for combat) and that ask a question truthfully utility at ten whose name evades me at the moment and I am too lazy to look up.

Draz74
2010-05-07, 08:47 PM
+1 to this. Wizards gets some truly awesome, non-combat utility spells including memory to mist (ignore its purple rating, the rating system was designed for combat) and that ask a question truthfully utility at ten whose name evades me at the moment and I am too lazy to look up.

Or, also at Level 10, the Bluff-boosting Utility.

There's also the Insight-boosting utility Emerald Eye at Level 6 (which is great for in-combat use, too).

Mando Knight
2010-05-07, 08:51 PM
But if you must 'mance anything, the way to go is an Intimidator. That's because an oft-overlooked rule allows you to force any bloodied monster to surrender with a successful Intimidate check. This falls squarely into "no sane DM would allow this" territory, but by RAW it is extremely powerful.

The problem is making the Intimidate check. Forcing a monster to surrender requires you to beat its Will plus a modifier if it's already hostile towards you. Which it generally is, given that you're trying to get it to surrender. On top of that, it's a one-shot deal: miss the check and you can't try again for that encounter.

Akal Saris
2010-05-07, 08:53 PM
Given that wizards get so many good powers, would it be better to go straight wizard or take bard (or another class) and then several multiclass power swap feats for the tasty utility powers?

Kurald Galain
2010-05-08, 03:15 AM
The problem is making the Intimidate check. Forcing a monster to surrender requires you to beat its Will plus a modifier if it's already hostile towards you. Which it generally is, given that you're trying to get it to surrender. On top of that, it's a one-shot deal: miss the check and you can't try again for that encounter.
Sure. However, you can affect multiple monsters with the same standard action, giving you pretty good odds of hitting at least one.

There's also more feats and items that boost your intimidate check than that boost your attack roll, so that -10 penalty is not insurmountable. This is the closest thing 4E has to save-or-die effects (even if, like I already said, most DMs would veto it on grounds of being lame and/or cheesy).


Given that wizards get so many good powers, would it be better to go straight wizard or take bard (or another class)
Wizard and bard have very poor synergy: one runs on intelligence and tries to boost arcana, the other runs on charisma and tries to boost bluff. I'd pick one or the other, but not both.