Asia In The Playground!

[Rogue 7]

Seeing as how a thread specifically about Japan is out, we can discuss the wide range of Asia here- and there's certainly a lot to discuss, given as it's got, what, almost half the world's population?

The old Japan Thread


Rogue 7

Wherein we can discuss all various and sundry things about the Land of the Rising Sun. Well, except anime and manga. We've got a thread for that.

So, I'm studying abroad here in Japan. I'm in Funabashi, which is in Chiba prefecture, just to the east of Tokyo. Been here a bit more than a month, and here until July. I love it- the food's great, the people are interesting, and the language is actually fun to learn!

Note that this thread was inspired from mine and TerraOblivion's discussion about her travel plans degenerating into random chitchat about this place, which was also starting to spill out into the main Anime discussion thread.

はなしましょう!

TerraOblivion

And as always when a discussion moves from a private conversation into a thread or from one thread it was derailing into another there is some awkwardness in the beginning.

I do look forward to going, however. Not only is it the country where most of the entertainment i experience on a daily basis comes from, it is also a country i have found has some of the best food around. To me Japanese is all the way up there with Indian and Italian in terms of how tasty it is and that is quite a feat. Also being in China has shown me that sakura are the prettiest trees on the planet and there is a reason why they are also called Japanese cherry trees and not Chinese ones. So yeah, i have become a lot more weeabo while staying in China.

Rogue 7


Shame you're not going in spring, when the actual Sakura trees are blooming. That's another thing I'll have to throw up on the photobucket when I finally get all these damn pictures uploaded.

Nameless


I was Japanese once.

Well, not really. However, I would like to go there.

Kobold-Bard


Careful with green tea ice cream. Depending who's made it it can be tongue erodingly strong. Nice if you get it right though.

When I went I couldnt and still cant speak/read a word of Japanese. Made the morning sessions (which were language lessons) interesting, because the american students had already been there for a month and had all studied it for two years, so I was so far behind they had to hunt out some kids books for me to learn the basics from . Not understanding the language of course meant getting the train back to my host families house was a nightmare to begin with. Getting lost on the trains in a foreign country is fun


TerraOblivion


It is, but at least they are here in Shanghai too. Not in huge numbers, but still. I actually have a picture of me underneath a stand of sakura from when my family visited in late March.

And of course given that the impetus to begin this conversation came from my travel plans, i'd love if anybody who is in Japan or has been there have anything they can recommend in either the Kansai region or in Tokyo. I might not end up going there, but having options is always nice. I know that i am going to be a huge nerd and visit Akihabara at least. And being the history nerd that i am, i am also going to see a lot of temples in Kyoto and Nara, should be a fun difference from the Chinese ones i've seen here.

Krade

My brother and his wife went to Japan for their honeymoon two years ago. If it hadn't been their honeymoon, I would have killed to go with them.

Rogue 7


Where were you, Kobold? Around here, there's enough romaji that I've never had a problem. Or maybe I'm just good with trains.

But I sympathize with not knowing the language. Most of the other folks in my program have at least a few years of Japanese under their belts. I've got 2 months of twice-a-week classes in NYC, which were somehow enough to qualify me for just above basic level Japanese. Still, I'm picking up a lot.

Getting lost in general can be fun, though. A few weeks ago I had a bit of an afternoon off, and the weather was nice, so I decided to see how close to the ocean my dorm is. Never found out, because it was taking a long time. I had though I remembered my route back...but I didn't. That was interesting, since I was smack in the middle of a residential area. Fortunately, picking a direction and walking in it managed to bring up a familiar landmark.

Funnily enough it was a love hotel, but I'll take what I can get.

Oh, and C.C. Lemon is awesome.

Edit: Terra, want me to repost mine?

TerraOblivion

Getting lost like that reminds me of some of my experiences in Shanghai. I have never been totally lost since i've always kept the pocket version of the Lonely Planet guide to the city in my purse and it has good maps. Still managed to wander into some very weird areas, including a large complex of back alleys that turned out to only have one entrance.

And i agree it is a bit surprising to not be able to even read the station names. They didn't put up signs in romaji? I thought that using transcriptions was standard procedure in major cities that uses different alphabets from the Latin one. At least in countries that are rich enough to expect a lot of western visitors.

Edit: Repost your what? But go ahead and do it, should be useful in any case.

Kobold-Bard

It was a university in Osaka. The first time I didn't know the ticket machine had an English button so I spent ages trying to buy the stupid thing. Also had to take a guess when my station was coming up which meant I ended up 3 stops short once. I have trouble remembering names normally, so foreign ones was like the universe poking me with a stick

I had nothing but a Japanese for Dummies phrasebook to go on when I got there. I just went because it was offered by uni, didn't occur to me that no-one else would go. So it was me and 14 American students who spoke the language fluently and all knew each other.

Still awesome though.

Rogue 7

Huh. When I spent a summer in Osaka 'bout 5 years ago on a homestay program I don't recall running into any issues*, and I couldn't even read hiragana back then. And I was literally just there this week, and there was certainly enough English to get by.

Even when they don't have announcements in English (and they very often do, even in Kansai), if you can't pick up "tsugi wa Akihabara, Akihabara desu" means "the next station is Akihabara" fairly quickly, I'd say you need to focus more.

*well, on the train. I've got my share of stupid gaijin stories.


And, for Terra, here's my list of things that are awesome to do and see in Japan.

Tokyo: Yokohama is very nice, and you'd probably be quite interested in Chinatown there. I've heard it's the biggest concentration of Chinese outside China, but I don't know if that's true or not. There's also a variety of interesting museums and sights to see based on the Meiji restoration.

Ueno Park is gorgeous, particularly when the sakura trees are in bloom, but they've also got a lot of museums and statues as well. Plus a zoo! Well worth a visit.

Akihabara- It's become more touristy of late, but you can still find a bunch of otaku stuff you won't get practically anywhere else in the world. I still need to plan out just which Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha figure I'm going to buy and take home...
I will say this though. There are times when I love being an Otaku, and times when I hate it. In Akihabara (and Nipponbashi, see below), the two come in very, very rapid sucession.

I'm assuming the Imperial Palace is worth a visit, but I haven't been, myself.

Shibuya was a lot of fun to go out with friends to. Just try to find the good bars.

Kansai:
Osaka-
Osaka-jo (castle) is big, fancy, and smack-dab in the middle of town. It's awesome, and probably one of the most convenient of the big Japanese castles to visit.

Nipponbashi- the Akihabara of Kansai, and they seemed to have better prices, fewer tourists (both a positive and a negative), and a different selection. At least, that's where I found the awesome Persona 4 shirt I'm wearing right now.

Mino-o. A quieter town in the north of Osaka (I forget the exact train route off the top of my head), this place is up in the hills, in a valley. Very nice hiking trails leading up to a beautiful waterfall. There are apparently monkeys, but we didn't see any. There's also an Onsen, which is actually quite nice to do.

There are a bunch of temples and shrines scattered around that are worth your time to see, but I can't name names.

Kyoto:
Ginkakuji and Kinkauji are both very nice. They've got some lovely zen gardens that are wonderful to walk through, and the pavillions themselves are beautiful.

Kiyoumizu-dera is also awesome, though it was packed when we went there. One of the hazards of Golden Week. It's a big temple complex up on a hill, so there's great views.

Inari something-or-another. It's in the southeast part of Kyoto, and has a ton of tori (those red gate thingamabobs) that you can walk through. Like, thousands of them. We were there several hours and didn't get to a large part of the place.

Tennouji temple (I may be getting this name mixed up with the one holding the Daibutsu in Nara)- in the Northwest of Kyoto, near a very nice river, and bamboo groves. Another nice zen complex to walk around in.

Nara:
Basically, just walk around Nara park- there are a ton of things to see. Most important is to go see the daibutsu, whose entire complex is mind-boggling. Make sure to feed the deer!

And, to make this thread more international:
Terra, any places to see in Shanghai?

[Deth Muncher]

Isn't there the "Australasia in the Playground" thread? For, y'know, Australia and Asia?

[Totally Guy]

The secret is to go down the following route.

You make an "Everywhere in the world except for Japan" topic. Then you've got a great big land mass to base the topic on.

Then you say "Well, how is everywhere that's not Japan different from the alternative? Lets talk about the differences!"

Edit: I thought the rule was Hemispheres.

[Rogue 7]

Not according to Roland. He told me to go ahead with an Asia in the Playground thread, and I couldn't find that Australasia one with posts in the last month.

[Kobold-Bard]

Isn't there the "Australasia in the Playground" thread? For, y'know, Australia and Asia?

Australasia is Australia and the other countries around it I thought. Totally separate from Asia.

[Deth Muncher]

Australasia is Australia and the other countries around it I thought. Totally separate from Asia.

Psh, don't expect me to know what I'm talking about.

[Rogue 7]

Alright, being in a country that doesn't use Daylight Savings Time is weird. It's 4:15 AM right now, and it's already getting light. I am not used to this.

On that note, goodnight, all.

[Nameless]

Australasia is Australia and the other countries around it I thought. Totally separate from Asia.

Indeed. Australasia is a separate continent all together.

On a more related note, how far does the Asia thread go? Is it just the far East? Or does it stretch all the way over to Arabia, the Middle East and the Near East?
Yay random yet sort of relevant questions.

[Kobold-Bard]

Alright, being in a country that doesn't use Daylight Savings Time is weird. It's 4:15 AM right now, and it's already getting light. I am not used to this.

On that note, goodnight, all.

Ah foreign time. Left England at 9am, flew for 12 hours and landed in Japan at 9am. Didn't sleep on the plane either. That was a loooong day.

[ForzaFiori]

I've always wanted to go to the far east (probably Japan or S. Korea as a first choice, with China not far behind) but the fact that I don't speak a word of Japanese or anything other than what I've learned in my Dojo (which wont get me far, considering its basic counting, and how to say yes, teacher, school, and maybe one or two other basic words) makes me think it wouldn't be worth the trouble.

[Worira]

Oh, man. I sure love discussing the entirety of Asia. It sure has a single, distinct culture, and isn't "places east of the white people" at all.

[randman22222]

My family lives in Kuala Lumpur (Malaysia), and that's where I'll be for a few months this summer!

I'm trying to find out if there are any playgrounders there, because aside from my family, I know no one.

...Can't wait for real Asian food again. :smallbiggrin:

[Kobold-Bard]

Oh, man. I sure love discussing the entirety of Asia. It sure has a single, distinct culture, and isn't "places east of the white people" at all.

Japan-itp got closed. The rule is that you have to stick to a continental level.

[Terraoblivion]

Because we all know how all continents are so homogeneous and easy to discuss as a single topic. But like Kobold Bard says, this was not the first shape the thread took.

Thanks for all the advice, Rogue. It should come in handy.

Several of these i have already read about and planned on going to. The Fushimi Inari Taisha is one of the. I mean how could i not see one of the most impressive Japanese shrines when it is also where Kotarou ambushed Negi and Asuna? I would lose my otaku credentials if i didn't visit when i was in the area. Similarly there is no way i am going to miss out on Nara and Akihabara, especially not when the hostel i have found in Tokyo is right between Akihabara and Ueno. If Osaka Castle is easy to see from the outside, even if it is just a concrete replica of the original, i am going to see it too, as well as probably several of the temples in Kyoto you mentioned and Nipponbashi. I have half a day in Osaka and two whole days in Kyoto, so i should have a decent amount of time to see most of it.

Similarly both the Imperial Palace and Ueno are definitely on my list of places to visit in Tokyo, just like i have to see Shibuya and try to determine how it holds up in trendiness compared to Berlin and London. It should be an exciting experience really. I also plan on heading by Nakano, both for the nerdiness found there and because it gives me the option of trying Ainu food and i will probably never get that chance again.

As for interesting things to see in Shanghai i think the answer has to be not a whole lot. However, that is unfair to the city, it is an awesome city both to live in and to visit, just not very oriented towards classic tourist sites. The major thing here is the shopping with a variety of places offering excellent opportunities depending on what you want. The big places are Xujiahui, Central Huaihai Road and East Nanjing Road, however, the most interesting stores are not necessarily on any of these. Depending on what you want exploring the western parts of the French Concession might be a better call. You should do that anyway since that area is a really interesting mix of Europe and China, with charming houses of all sorts of traditional European styles and expensive, high-end shops as well as many reminders that you are in China. It also has several of the best restaurants in the city. Special mention also deserves to go to Maoming Road, which is the tailor street so if you want your own qipao or silk jacket this is one of the best places in the world to go.

The other big thing to do in Shanghai is eat. Of course it fulfills a basic necessity, but it is also one of the high points of the city. Though it is not the best place to go if you demand Michelin stars, most people are perfectly capable of settling for less and then Shanghai delivers excellent food for very affordable prices. While i have a lot of recommendations there are a few major ones. The first is to have lunch at Crystal Jade in the downtown Xintiandi area, food just shy of the true gourmet mark served at fast food prices and with unlimited servings of the finest Chinese teas is just hard to pass up. The other strong recommendation i have is to have Thai at one of the restaurants in the Simply Thai chain. While they are not quite as willing to remove the fat from their meat as i would like, they make the best south east Asian food i have ever had and serves it in nice, pleasant but unpretentious surroundings.

For cheaper, more snacklike food the local xiaolongbao dumplings are an excellent meal normally sold for very little money, something that nobody should miss if they visit Shanghai. There are also many stands selling various forms of ready-made fast food from noodles to kebabs along Fuxing Road, as well as a quite good, but incredibly tacky and pervy chocolatier. Bread is best gotten at the high-end Paul chain which makes the most awesome cakes and pastries i have ever had anywhere, their lemon tarts and macaroons are to die for. Finally i want to recommend the café Ginger tucked away in a small arcade at the very westernmost end of Fuxing Road, which brings European sophistication to China while serving nice European and Vietnamese café food for affordable, though not cheap, prices.

The major actual sights in Shanghai itself are the Bund and Yuyuan or the Yu Gardens. The old waterfront of the Bund is something you should not miss if you visit the city, across the Huangpu River you see the glittering, neonclad skyscrapers of Pudong that make for one of the most imposing and impressive modern skylines. Then if you turn around you see what is perhaps the most unified and stylish examples of early twentieth century European architecture. It is not quite unique, but it is a spectacular sight and shows Shanghai's colonial past and the true extent of the wealth possessed by the European elite of the past. All of this naturally looks best at night when the darkness creates a certain intimacy and the lights play over the buildings and should not be missed if you visit Shanghai.

Yuyuan on the other hand is an example of Chinese history. One of the largest and most elaborate examples of the southern Chinese style of garden architecture, it is a very serene and relaxing oasis in the city, as well as an example of beautiful architecture and gardening. It is surrounded by an incredibly tacky bazaar selling all sorts of food and souvenirs and utterly crowded by tourists milling about no matter the time of the year, all build in a faux Ming dynasty style. Not historical or tasteful, but charming in its own strange way.

Other sights i would recommend include Shanghai Museum and the Shikumen Open House Museum. The first has a large collection of Chinese art and historical artifacts in one of the more tasteful examples of modern Chinese architecture, as well as frequent exhibits borrowed from some of the major museums in the world, currently they have an exhibit borrowed from the Uffizi galleries in Florence. The museum shop is also very near peerless in quality and entrance to the museum itself is free. The Shikumen Open House Museum on the other hand is a small museum in Xintiandi showing the life of middle class Chinese people during the colonial era, as well as featuring comments about the restoration of the Xintiandi district. Not a huge attraction, but definitely an interesting museum to spend half an hour in.

Shanghai also provides a good base for excursions to several other major attractions. Foremost among these if you ask the Chinese is West Lake in the nearby city of Hangzhou. Considered the foremost example of a Chinese landscape this enormous park has been developed for more than a millennium in accordance to Chinese gardening principles and makes for quite possibly the most beautiful example of a manmade landscape i have seen. Despite how many tourists visit the place it is quiet, serene and though there are many snack stands they have been build with great respect for the original design of the garden they are in. While it would probably be overkill, it would take days to visit all the major spots of the area and even more if you want to see all the temples and museums as well.

Another excursion well worth making is to go to one of the canal towns to the west of Shanghai. While extremely crowded and overrun by tourists as well as stores catering to tourists, they still have much of their rustic charm and do much to show what a prosperous Chinese town would have been like in imperial times. Getting there can be hard though, but if any of you are going to Shanghai anytime soon, give me a PM and i will try to explain how to get there. Suzhou should also be worth a visit for the gardens, but i haven't been there and between West Lake and Yuyuan i don't see much need to go there. But it is worth remembering as a place to go from Shanghai.

I also think i have been rambling enough now.

[Fifty-Eyed Fred]

Oh, man. I sure love discussing the entirety of Asia. It sure has a single, distinct culture, and isn't "places east of the white people" at all.

It's a continent. That's like saying Europe should not be discussed as a whole, because it does not have a single, distinct culture and comprises "places west of the non-white people".

It is actually a rule (or a mere precedent) that you can't have threads about individual countries here; it must be continents, irritating as that is. Britain in the Playground was such a nice thread, too. But those are the rules, so don't go making a song and dance of your disapproval.

And I am ninja'd once more. :smalltongue:

[Fri]

sigh, you all missing the point. restricting the 'location in the playground' into continental mass have a good point that isn't connected to racism or orientalism at all.

It's because back then, we started to have so many 'location in the playgrounds' threads that it starts to clog the friendly banter because everyone want to have their own 'their country in the playground' thread. I think there's even two threads for one country, for south and north or whatever. Face it, this is an international forum and there's one-hundred-eighty nations in the world and if only ten percent of them have their thread, we'll have eighteen permanent thread in friendly banters just for the location in the playground threads.

[Thanatos 51-50]

I...
I miss Japan.
v.v

[Amiel]

Indeed. Australasia is a separate continent all together.
Actually, Australasia isn't a continent at all; it's an area of Oceania that encompasses Australia (a continent, also an island), New Zealand, New Guinea, and neighbouring islands in the Pacific. Geopolitically, it is also used to reference Australian and New Zealand in absentia of other nations.


Thanks for this thread :)
Terra, since you're in Shanghai and know quite a bit more about it than me (Beijinger here; though I agree with you that Shanghai's main area of concern and influence is commerce and the acquisition thereof, also thanks muchly for the information on what to do, see and experience in the city!), I was wondering whether you've been to the World Expo and what you thought of it (if you've been)? or do you mostly think that it's probably a colossal waste of money and effort?

[Terraoblivion]

I have an Expo ticket, but i haven't gone yet. It is on the other side of the city and i have been concerned with other things in the slightly more than a week since it opened. However, i will be going at some point, it should be interesting after all. And at least some of the pavilions are examples of really interesting architecture, so there is some point to going there.

[Lioness]

*Lioness wants to go to Japan, sometime within the next three years. I'm thinking I'll do a university exchange thing, and study part of my degree in Japan.

How well do I need to speak the language...at the moment, I can ask directions, hobbies, basic pleasantries, "help!' , etc.. I've been studying Japanese for about 4 years. By the time I go over there, it will be about 6. Will that be enough?

And Kanji...how many do I need to know to half get by. Because at the moment I have a kanji level of a Japanese year 3-4 student. *shame*

[Terraoblivion]

While i have no personal experience with being in Japan, from what i can tell that should be enough for daily life. You can obviously not read complex literature if that is the Japanese you know, just like you will likely have yo socialize more with foreigners than with Japanese people if that is the extend of your Japanese skills.

I know that as long as no problems crop up and the paperwork is handled, you can live in Shanghai without speaking any Chinese, though it of course helps a lot in daily life. And for paperwork you'd be in a lot of trouble in most cases if you don't know it well. I would imagine it would be roughly the same or maybe a little easier in Japan, but perhaps someone who has been there can tell.

And to someone like me who has studied Chinese the intimidating aspect of kanji isn't really the amount or the complexity, it is the fact that they change meaning and pronunciation so much. That does seem like it would be frightening when you have to learn Japanese, but at least there are so much fewer than in Chinese and they appear to be a bit simpler on average.

[Rogue 7]

*Lioness wants to go to Japan, sometime within the next three years. I'm thinking I'll do a university exchange thing, and study part of my degree in Japan.

How well do I need to speak the language...at the moment, I can ask directions, hobbies, basic pleasantries, "help!' , etc.. I've been studying Japanese for about 4 years. By the time I go over there, it will be about 6. Will that be enough?

And Kanji...how many do I need to know to half get by. Because at the moment I have a kanji level of a Japanese year 3-4 student. *shame*

You're so far beyond fine that you shouldn't be worrying at all. I had literally two months of twice-a-week courses before I came here. I know about a dozen kanji, and I still haven't mastered all the katakana. I have a very, very shaky grasp on basic grammar, and still can't understand 90% of the things that are said to me.

I've gotten along fine, really. I'm here on a study abroad program, and the people in it have been very helpful with trivial bureaucratic stuff. Even then, your communication skills should be good enough that if you just ask the attendant, they'll help you out.

[Serpentine]

Isn't there the "Australasia in the Playground" thread? For, y'know, Australia and Asia?Everyone else has covered this, so... I'm gonna do it too :smalltongue: Australasia is a pretty rough delienation, but it can include south-east Asia, Australia, New Zealand and wider Polynesia. Not sure where Oceania fits in all that, or if it's just a synonym.

DEAR MIKI HAYASAKA AND MAKIKO YAMAGOUCHI: CONTACT US YOU SPOOTYHEADS!

[Terraoblivion]

In most of the world, even places where you wouldn't expect it, English can get you quite far in plugging the holes in your skills with the local language. In most major urban areas very near all young people know at least a little bit of the language, though they are not necessarily conversational in it.

And frankly i hope i am right on this, since my Japanese skills consists of random words and bits of grammar picked up from anime. That and knowing a fair amount of kanji since they are the same as Chinese characters, though of course there are pitfalls and i cannot rely on pronunciation. So if you have to speak proper Japanese to go there my trip this summer is going to be a pretty frustrating affair, but that's not the impression i've gotten.

[Rogue 7]

If you're just doing the tourist thing, you're going to be completely fine. The Japanese know their language is hard to get, so they put a lot of romaji in so that tourists don't get lost.

One thing I would recommend is trying to learn at least hiragana, and possibly katakana as well.

[Terraoblivion]

Know any good ways of doing that without having access to classes? I mean it should mostly be relatively simple, but it still takes time and more than just a full listing of them would likely help. Like a memory game of pairing them up or such like, at least it works for Chinese characters.

And i imagined the Japanese would be like the Chinese and put transcriptions of proper nouns everywhere and at least somewhat dodgy translations into English too, in many cases. Though from what tourist guides tell me, the Japanese are actually less fond of this than the Chinese. I am not sure whether that is because those guides are written with people who have never been to a foreign country before in mind, except when they are written with people who go far off the beaten path in mind, both of whom might need the warning. In any case, i am used to being in places where i don't speak the language, i have traveled enough for that and i can assure you that in places like Turkey or the Czech Republic people don't speak much English.

[Rogue 7]

And I bet friggin' no one speaks Danish, right?:smalltongue:

The way my class learned them was to take a consonant-group a day (かきくけこ, for instance) and practice them. No special mnemonics were given (though I developed a few of my own). So I'd say just practice them and you'll get them reasonably quickly.

In Japanese, I think they call writing out the pronunciations of kanji "furigana", and yeah, it's fairly rare. I know one thing that does do it is manga like Shonen Jump, since it's aimed at younger kids who might not know all the kanji straight off. But you see it on occasion (and very often in classroom texts, since in my class at least, we know almost no kanji (well, except the girl from Hong Kong and the Korean guy))

[Terraoblivion]

Except for the 60,000 Danish people who have moved to London, the enclave in Malmö and the Danish minority in Schleswig-Holstein, no one speaks Danish, no. So you have to get by with English as a Danish tourist, which is part of where i got used to it.

And i guess i need to find a way to practice them. Not sure what is the best way, but i will think of it. Would also have the fun effect of making a substantial chunk of the early classes easier should i end up studying Japanese once i drop Chinese this summer, though it is unlikely i choose that. Good food, pop culture and pretty sceneries can only get you so far in learning a language before you need to think of a more solid motivation, after all.

And yeah, furigana probably isn't too common in actual Japanese, though i know it exists. You are also right that they are called that, i remember it from when one of my friends in Denmark was studying Japanese.

[Amiel]

Beijing is very interesting; on the one hand, it's only one of many cultural capitals in China, on the other, it is the current capital city of China (and its' administrative, political and legislative centre). Occupied for thousands of years, it boasts among the greatest concentrations of sites of historical significance of any country.
The Encyclopædia Britannica describes it as "one of the world's great cities," and declares that the city has been an integral part of China's history for centuries; there is scarcely a major building of any age in Beijing that doesn't have at least some national historical significance. Embellishment almost certainly, but also most definitely true.

Within its extensive borders lies the the Forbidden City, a 720,000 m2 (7,800,000 sq ft) complex of imposing buildings, grand pavilions and stately gardens (more like parks); commoners were originally forbidden entry upon pain of death (hence its sobriquet). Nowadays it is one of the most visited places on earth. I especially like the architecture and designs within the City (it can really be called a small city within a city), and I especially like the grand gardens (I have fond memories of Beiha).
In summer and spring, the lakes teem with thousands of lotus flowers and in winter, skaters brave the ice to iceskate.

While Beiha is nominally part of the Forbidden City, the Chinese built on a massive scale, it is itself ridiculously huge and like the Forbidden City boasts many cultural, historical and natural treasures.

Yiheyuan or the Summer Palace is another attraction that should be visited. It is dominated by the Kunming lake (the park covers 2.9 km2, of which three quarters is water) and Longevity Hill (which I have been up; one can see nearly the entirety of Beijing on a good day). One can reguarly see calligraphers writing passages from famous texts and/or scriptures upon the pavement near the Long Corridor (728 m with more than 14,000 paintings).

You should also visit Old Beijing, the Temple of Heaven (and also Earth, Sun and Moon), the Thirteen Tombs of the Ming Dynasty, and Badaling (a section of the Great Wall that lies within the vicinity of Beijing).
I would also recommend going to visit Beijing Zoo and Beijing Aquarium.

For shopping, no other streets compare to Xidan and Wangfujing; entire broad streets that are devoted to shopping. And be sure to visit the night markets, stalls and be sure to try Peking duck!


When enjoying the sights of Japan, I wouldn't be surprised at the extent of similarities between China and Japan; Japan did borrow extensively from China after all.


Enjoy the Expo, Terra :)

[kamikasei]

Know any good ways of doing that without having access to classes? I mean it should mostly be relatively simple, but it still takes time and more than just a full listing of them would likely help. Like a memory game of pairing them up or such like, at least it works for Chinese characters.

This (http://www.nihongoresources.com/language/lessons/lesson-00/practice.html) might help. There's a general lesson set up on the site, but this link is to a kana practice flash app. Only covers recognition, though.

You can get games for the DS that teach you kanji, too. Seems to me an ideal way to learn them. Not much use to you on a short visit, but you might want to pick one up while you're in Japan if you have any ambitions to learn the language in more depth in the future.

[Amiel]

Also, there's apparently an iPhone app that teaches you kanji (probably only really applicable if you have said device).

[Terraoblivion]

I was in Beijing when my family visited me a little over a month ago. It is indeed a cool city, though we were hardly there enough to see it all. The area we were staying in was the northern part of the old city, just south of the second ringroad amidst the hutongs and their classic architecture. Apart from a truly distinctive old architecture that area is probably most notable for seeming to a shopping district for nerds and hipsters judging by the stores found there. Never seen so many Gundam models in one place before and yet to anywhere in Shanghai were the fashion was that high-end while also being casual.

And while i didn't get to see all the things you suggested, i did go to the Forbidden City, the Summer Palace and a slightly more distant section of the Great Wall. The guide even snuck us on a section of the wall that isn't actually open to the public yet and which hasn't been fully restored either, though it seemed quite sturdy enough. I also have to say that the Forbidden City is as impressive as its reputation, with an unparalleled unity of design and vision in its construction that actually works without getting sterile or boring. And those golden tiles used for the roofs are just incredible, i didn't know you could do something like that with clay. In general i would definitely recommend Beijing as a place to visit, it is simply packed with major sights to see and is a much more Chinese example of a modern metropolis than Shanghai.

And i do believe that i will see a lot of similarities between Shanghai and Japan, Amiel. After all the Chinese modernity found in Shanghai is clearly much more inspired by Japan than by the West. The sheer amount of places selling central European cakes show that, the density here is greater than it was in Budapest and if anime has told me anything it is that the Japanese love their central European cakes. Also Japanese fast food is as popular and readily available as Chinese is here, which says quite a bit.

And thanks for wishing me enjoyment of Expo, it should be interesting.

Also thanks for the link, Kami. It seems like i need to do some basic studying first, though.

[dish]

I had to go to the Expo site yesterday to deliver some documents. Didn't go in, because I didn't have a ticket, but it does not seem to be very busy. I'd advise visiting in the evenings or on weekdays rather than at peak times.

(I've lived in Shanghai for 3 years, and in China for much longer than that - embarrassingly long.)

[Terraoblivion]

That does seem like solid advice. I'll keep it in mind and go on, say, a Tuesday. I'm not sure how much time i am going to spend out there, however, so i won't be heading there in the evening.

[Dvandemon]

Asia is on my list of continents to visit. Not sure thats relevant

[Terraoblivion]

Asia isn't a country, you know, Dvandemon.

Also i have a boring practical question. Does anybody know when trains start running in the morning in Tokyo? I am looking for tickets home and with the exception of the 30 hour marathons with Aeroflot all the cheap tickets to either Copenhagen or Hamburg leaves at either 8.30 from Haneda or 9.00 from Narita. But when you have to check-in in advance and go through security and so on, that can very well become a very tight schedule. Even with the fastest trains to Narita leaving right near the hotel where i will be staying. And somehow i feel fairly confident that i cannot afford a taxi from central Tokyo to either of the airports.

[Serpentine]

:confused:
He said continent.

[Terraoblivion]

Weird...i read it as country twice. Guess that the concept of treating an entire continent as a destination is just too foreign to me.

[Serpentine]

I want to go to South America at some point. Mostly Bolivia and Mexico, but other countries as well, so South America covers it. Same with Europe. And, yeah, Asia.

[Nameless]

Weird...i read it as country twice. Guess that the concept of treating an entire continent as a destination is just too foreign to me.

Actually, I read it as country as well. e_o

[Terraoblivion]

I guess it might be a European thing. Our continent is just packed with squabbling countries that very definitely don't want to be told they are just like their neighbors. Really whenever Americans say they have been to Europe it triggers puzzled glances, shrugs and a quiet conclusion that they have been to little enough of Europe that it doesn't count among Europeans. Asia is even larger and more diverse, making it harder to see it as a destination.

[Rogue 7]

Asia isn't a country, you know, Dvandemon.

Also i have a boring practical question. Does anybody know when trains start running in the morning in Tokyo? I am looking for tickets home and with the exception of the 30 hour marathons with Aeroflot all the cheap tickets to either Copenhagen or Hamburg leaves at either 8.30 from Haneda or 9.00 from Narita. But when you have to check-in in advance and go through security and so on, that can very well become a very tight schedule. Even with the fastest trains to Narita leaving right near the hotel where i will be staying. And somehow i feel fairly confident that i cannot afford a taxi from central Tokyo to either of the airports.

I've taken a train from my home into Tokyo at approximately five in the morning. You shouldn't really have a problem.

I just ran a quick check through Hyperdia (Google JR Train schedule English and It'll be on the first page) for tomorrow, and It gives an arrival time of 6:45-7:00 (http://www.hyperdia.com/en/cgi/en/search.html?dep_node=UENO&arv_node=NARITA%20INTERNATIONAL%20AIRPORT%201&via_node01=&via_node02=&via_node03=&year=2010&month=05&day=09&hour=07&minute=00&search_type=1&search_way=&transtime=undefined&sort=0&max_route=5&ship=off&lmlimit=null&search_target=route&facility=reserved&sum_target=7) or so. The earliest trains start around 4:30-5:00.

[Serpentine]

Well, "I want to go to Europe" is a lot quicker and easier than saying "I want to go to the UK, and France, and Germany, and Amsterdam, and Helsinki, and Iceland, and Denmark, and Norway, and Spain, and Italy, and Greece, and..."

[lostlittlebear]

An Asia thread without Singapore in it?! Blasphemy I say!

Any love for the Lion City? :smallbiggrin:

[Kobold-Bard]

Well, "I want to go to Europe" is a lot quicker and easier than saying "I want to go to the UK, and France, and Germany, and Amsterdam, and Helsinki, and Iceland, and Denmark, and Norway, and Spain, and Italy, and Greece, and..."

That's assuming they went to all of those. Lots of people will say Europe when they only went to one country.

[Terraoblivion]

I guess, Serpentine. Just it seems weird to want to go to all countries in Europe without significant prioritizing. I mean i live in Europe and like half the countries on that continent i have no plans of going to, because it seems like there is nothing remarkable to them. So i am more used to having an approach of wanting to go to London to see the largest metropolis of the continent and Tower and such, while also wanting to see the fjords of Norway or whatever. I guess that living in the continent gives you a much greater perception of the distinctions of it. Oh, and Helsinki isn't a country, it is the capital of Finland.

And well, Asia is really freaking huge and incredibly diverse, though i suspect that what he actually meant was East Asia, not the whole thing. People tend to just ignore that Siberia and the Middle East is part of Asia when talking about the continent as a location.

As for Singapore i know only a few things about the city. One is that it is the preferred example of order enforced through harsh punishment to people in the west, whether it is true or not, and the other is that it is a major transport hub. Not much to talk about there.

[Fri]

bah, singapore is just the western's satellite anyway :smalltongue:

Anyway, here's a blog where you can see an american slowly absorbed by indonesian culture. http://www.kopisusu2.blogspot.com. She also visits other south east asian countries rather often.

[Starshade]

Except for the 60,000 Danish people who have moved to London, the enclave in Malmö and the Danish minority in Schleswig-Holstein, no one speaks Danish, no. So you have to get by with English as a Danish tourist, which is part of where i got used to it.
....


Well, i do understand some danish as an Norwegian. Swedish is easier, but i do understand Danish. :smallsmile:

[Terraoblivion]

Yes, but that is not the same as speaking the language. Danish, Swedish and Norwegian are basically dialects of a single language that just happen to have an army and a navy each and thus be considered a language, to paraphrase...some famous linguist whose name escapes me.

[randman22222]

Awwe, don't speak so ill of Singapore! I lived there for six years, and loved it!

Now my family is in KL, but I won't be back for... two monthsish.

[Dvandemon]

Asia isn't a country, you know, Dvandemon.

Also i have a boring practical question. Does anybody know when trains start running in the morning in Tokyo? I am looking for tickets home and with the exception of the 30 hour marathons with Aeroflot all the cheap tickets to either Copenhagen or Hamburg leaves at either 8.30 from Haneda or 9.00 from Narita. But when you have to check-in in advance and go through security and so on, that can very well become a very tight schedule. Even with the fastest trains to Narita leaving right near the hotel where i will be staying. And somehow i feel fairly confident that i cannot afford a taxi from central Tokyo to either of the airports.

You're in Japan!? Oh *looks into space dreamily*

Yeah I almost posted country but remembered that is was Asia.

[Winter_Wolf]

I've heard from a number of people who have been there that "Singapore is a fine city." I'm sure a number of you who've heard that line know where I'm going with that. :smallwink: But in all seriousness, never been and don't plan to since it's another plane ride, which have become the bane of my existence, along with visa applications.

Lived in Shanghai for a long time, though I imagine it felt like a lot longer than it probably was. Long commutes, plus crooked cab drivers FTL. I heard that, sadly, line 8 in Shanghai actually "died" because it couldn't handle the sheer number of people in town for the world expo. Line 8 serviced the place where our home is, so REALLY glad I don't have to deal with trying to commute without a subway line! Oddly enough, even WITH the subway line literally a 5 minute walk from my front door, it still took me about 2 hours to actually get anywhere I needed to go.

My wife showed me some pics of people waiting to get into world expo. Good gods above! Worse than trying to get a train ticket during Spring Festival!

I lived in Japan for a year, once upon a time in college days. I like Nagoya, it had the BEST miso (red miso, yay!) based food in the country. It also had a dubious distinction for having the highest per capita "snack" clubs (スナック) in the country. Made trips into Kyoto, Osaka, Nara, Wakayama, Kii-Nagashima, well pretty much any place along the train routes out to Osaka. The onsen experience is simply fabulous, provided you're not squicked about public nudity in a (unisex) bath. I had this bath in hot spring water that was naturally very high in iridium content, I swear it was like a (temporary) magical spring which completely removed the pain in my knee for months. Even made it down to Okinawa and managed to get out of a couple of harsh winter days in February.

[Lioness]

I like Nagoya,

We have a ton of debates in our Japanese class about Nagoya. The teacher doesn't like it, but then whenever she mentions it, the girl from Nagoya gets all "it's awesome! Don't diss my city."

When I go to Japan, I will probably end up exchanging to Nagoya Uni, because I have a friend in Gifu, which is nearby. And Nagoya is the closest sister uni to Gifu.

[Winter_Wolf]

We have a ton of debates in our Japanese class about Nagoya. The teacher doesn't like it, but then whenever she mentions it, the girl from Nagoya gets all "it's awesome! Don't diss my city."

When I go to Japan, I will probably end up exchanging to Nagoya Uni, because I have a friend in Gifu, which is nearby. And Nagoya is the closest sister uni to Gifu.

Money's good that your Japanese teacher is from somewhere in Kantou, possibly Tokyo or a suburb thereof; definitely NOT from Chubu. The entire area is--according to most Japanese people I've spoken with--considered weird by people not from there. I will say this, it's different than other parts of Japan. I mean, really different, almost like the culture of the rest of the country just took a skip and a pass right around it. To be honest, I think a part of it stems from the jealousy that only Chubu people eat red miso! :smallwink: Really, ask for red miso anywhere else in Japan and see what kind of reaction you get. Practically guarantee you someone will say something about Nagoya. Asked for it once in Kansai area, and the waitress said, "you must be from Nagoya."

Nagoya University is a beautiful campus. Not a far walk from Nanzan U. (that's where I spent my study abroad). If you go to Nagoya, be sure to pick up a bit of the ol' Nagoya-ben. It doesn't even really sound like Japanese anymore, and people from other regions will give you the most amusing looks! Ex: "Do e arai" = tsukareta つかれた, "korya umya~!" = kore ha umai!　これは美味い, "omya~" = omaeお前. The 'a~' in umya~ and omya~ sound like the 'a' in 'cat' instead of the standard Japanese 'ah' sound.

I could go on, but if you really want to know anything about Nagoya, PM me and I'll try to help you best I can.

[Terraoblivion]

See, Randman, i am not saying it is actually true, just that i know nothing about Singapore other than the national stereotype that exists in Denmark. I might very well be wrong.

And, no, Dvandemon, i'm in Shanghai. I will be going to Japan this summer, however, i and i am wrapping up ordering plane tickets and the like and i needed to know how possible it was to catch a plane that flies at 9 in the morning.

Also Chubu sounds weird. I don't have time to put it on my schedule for this trip, but it might be worth it if i go there for a longer period at some point.

[Dr.Epic]

I'm half Russian which I consider North Asia despite what anyone says.

[Rogue 7]

The last time I was in Japan, I went out to Nagoya for a world's fair type thing. I think it was like the one in Shanghai right now, but I don't really know. 'Twas quite cool.

[Serpentine]

I guess, Serpentine. Just it seems weird to want to go to all countries in Europe without significant prioritizing.I don't want to go to all of them, but mostly because I don't know all of them off the top of my head (I have an awful memory). Nonetheless, I want to see enough of Europe as a whole to make "I want to go to Europe" more accurate and succinct than listing specific places. Also:

That's assuming they went to all of those. Lots of people will say Europe when they only went to one country.It's still true *shrug* Going to an entire other continent is actually a big deal. Being in Australia, going to another country is a big deal (and the same thing), but another continent is for anyone.

Oh, and Helsinki isn't a country, it is the capital of Finland.4th time to be told something I already know :smallsigh: Just something I'm keeping track of :smalltongue:

[Asta Kask]

I don't want to go to all of them, but mostly because I don't know all of them off the top of my head (I have an awful memory). Nonetheless, I want to see enough of Europe as a whole to make "I want to go to Europe" more accurate and succinct than listing specific places.

Come to Sweden and I'll show you the nature around here. I've had moose in my garden but I can't guarantee you'll see any unless we go to the zoo. They're very impressive up close, and they'll kill you just as dead as any funnelweb spider* if you make them angry. Or drunk.

I've been to Australia and I liked it, although it was too hot for my liking. My brain melts when the temperature goes over 30 degrees (Celsius).

*what would a post about Australia be without some stereotypes? :smallbiggrin:

[Lioness]

Money's good that your Japanese teacher is from somewhere in Kantou, possibly Tokyo or a suburb thereof; definitely NOT from Chubu.

She's from Australia ^^

Spent a year there when she was 17. Then moved back there for about 12 years.

[Winter_Wolf]

She's from Australia ^^

Spent a year there when she was 17. Then moved back there for about 12 years.

It's highly unusual to see that kind of attitude about Nagoya unless you're Japanese from a different part of the country. Ehm, do you mean your teacher spent all that time in Nagoya, or in Tokyo? Either way I can see it leading to that attitude towards the area, but for completely different reasons.

[lostlittlebear]

As for Singapore i know only a few things about the city. One is that it is the preferred example of order enforced through harsh punishment to people in the west, whether it is true or not, and the other is that it is a major transport hub. Not much to talk about there.

Aw c'mon, that's just unfair :smallfrown:

It's true we get a lot of bad press in the Western media for being a one-party state and draconian laws, but in actuality life here is pretty cool and cosmopolitan as long as you don't break the law. We're one of the top cities in the world in terms of quality of life, have a decent arts scene, awesome night life, the best food in SEA (yes Malaysia, take that! My family's from Penang and Singapore food > Penang food any day) and tons of hot girls :smalltongue:

And (as I'm told) we're the unofficial LGBT capital of SEA as well, which is pretty ironic considering that technically homosexuality is against the law here.

[toasty]

and tons of hot girls :smalltongue:

I dunno... I've met a lot of hot Thais... :smallbiggrin: As a general rule though I find East Asian Attractive...


And (as I'm told) we're the unofficial LGBT capital of SEA as well, which is pretty ironic considering that technically homosexuality is against the law here.

You beat Thailand? Weird... I guess I need to visit Singapore some more... its a pretty cool city.

As of yet there has been no mention of South Asia proper, that is, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Pakistan, Nepal, Bhutan, Maldives, and of course India--I shall now remedy this.

I live in Dhaka, Bangladesh, one of the most unlivable cities in the world. As of yet, Bangladesh's sole claims to fame are the fact that its extremely corrupt, extremely poor, and its capital will be unlivable for lack of electricity, water, and roads that are filled with cars and crazy bus drivers. What's not to like? :smallbiggrin:

No seriously, Dhaka has a lot of problems, but its pretty awesome. Indian food is generally better, but you can get good Chicken Roast and Beef Biryani pretty easily. Oh, and Aloo Poori, I have no clue how I will survive without Aloo Poori when I move back to the US.

India is pretty cool as well. I haven't been there is a while, and I lived there only when I was very young (moved to Dhaka about when I turned seven), but I really like India, at least all the Big Cities: Chennai, Mumbai, Kolkota, etc. Actually, funny story, I was on a plane to Mumbai and the guy next to me struck up a conversation. During the entire conversation he, most likely a resident, refereed to our destination as Bombay. I was politically correct and said Mumbai. Funny thing is, he was usually the "oppressive colonial" name and I was using the Hindi (or whatever reason they have for changing) name. It did slightly amuse me.

Anyways, so I'm in South Asia for about five more weeks before I run off to the US for Summer Holiday and College/University. It's been an awesome place, even if our power is almost out more than it is on. :smallsigh::smallannoyed:

[Rogue 7]

I've got a friend who was born in Dhaka (though she lives in Ohio now). She described the city pretty much the way you did. I think she said it's something like the most corrupt country in the world, or at least it was a while back.

[Terraoblivion]

I thought that Bangladesh's greatest claim to fame was to soon be under water...:smallconfused:

Which isn't really a very good claim to fame to have. I also know more about it than the flooding risks, which includes most of the things you mentioned. I know the broadest outlines of its post-colonial history, for example.

Also Indian food is indeed great. We sadly don't have any good Indian places in Århus where i live, but it is one of the types of food i usually seek out when abroad because as long as you make sure the restaurant isn't completely a hellhole of dirt you can never go completely wrong with Indian. At least not in my experience. Together with Italian and Japanese it is one of my top three styles of food, really.

And i think you misunderstood me lostlittlebear. In my knowledge of Singapore there is not much to talk about. Singapore like any other city or country on the planet has a lot to talk about, but i know none of it which is why i wasn't talking about it. But i'd love to hear more about your city and get a more nuanced view of it, since i hope to have at least a basic understanding of as many countries as possible.

[toasty]

I thought that Bangladesh's greatest claim to fame was to soon be under water...:smallconfused:

Not entirely, apparently a new landmass three (or five?) times the size of Dhaka has just risen from the depths due to sediments flowing down from Nepal or something... I'm not entirely sure. :smallbiggrin:


Also Indian food is indeed great. We sadly don't have any good Indian places in Århus where i live, but it is one of the types of food i usually seek out when abroad because as long as you make sure the restaurant isn't completely a hellhole of dirt you can never go completely wrong with Indian. At least not in my experience. Together with Italian and Japanese it is one of my top three styles of food, really.

Mexican food is also really good. Well, Tex-Mex is good, at least.


I think she said it's something like the most corrupt country in the world, or at least it was a while back.

I think Haiti beat us a few years back (they got more corrupt, we didn't get less). And then a variety of things happened including a pseudo-coup (I didn't think of it as a coup, nor did most in Bangladesh, but the UN etc did...) which temporarily cleaned up the corruption followed by general elections about a year ago and I think we're kinda less corrupt now. Ground-level is the same but the higher ups are probably a bit less corrupt, which is good.

[hap_hazard]

An Asia thread without Singapore in it?! Blasphemy I say!

Any love for the Lion City? :smallbiggrin:

<3

I won't even call our laws that draconian... And we have great food and awesome internets.

@V: Oy! We take every ethnic food there is and remix it in a thousand different ways! :smalltongue:

[Fri]

the best food in SEA (yes Malaysia, take that! My family's from Penang and Singapore food > Penang food any day) and tons of hot girls :smalltongue:

.

No country can beat Indonesia in this case simply for the amount of choice. Other country have what? Two? Three? Five? Twenty indigenous ethnic groups with distinct taste in food each?

Indonesian have HUNDREDS.

[Seneschal]

I have a solution to the mystery of the opinion-polarising Nagoya:

Most of the area around Nagoya, and indeed most of the city itself is a really nice area. However, central Nagoya, and the area around Nagoya station itself, is terrible. Really, really, terrible.

So, people who've stayed in the area or travelled around Nagoya think it's really nice, but people who've just been there on a business trip or something like that think it's the nastiest place in Japan. Both groups are right, they're just seeing different parts of Nagoya.



If you're near Nagoya, I highly recommend taking the train half an hour north and checking out Inuyama. It has one of the few "authentic" (i.e. not a poured concrete replica) castles in Japan, and a museum of Meiji era buildings (as in, a giant area they moved all the buildings themselves to from all over Japan). There is also a brewery there that makes the best beer I've found in Japan.