Test of Spite Qualifier: Phoenix vs Nohwl

[PhoenixRivers]

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Arena ceiling is 30 feet up.

As for Buffs, how many rounds would you like?

Long-Term (12+hour) buffs and how many extra rounds?

[Nohwl]

0 extra rounds. just all day buffs is fine with me.

[PhoenixRivers]

Fair enough. I'll start on row 1 or 2, you can start in row 11 or 12.

Buffs (Observers only):Greater Resistance
Desecrate (Starting Area)

Initiative: [roll0]

Starting Location:C2

[Nohwl]

starting location

11,c, 10 feet in the air

all day buffs

contingency--if i am reduced to less than 25% of my health, cast resilient sphere on myself--cl 13

buffs from yesterday

Extended dmm persist vigorous circle--cl 17
Extended dmm persist righteous wrath of the faithful--cl 17
Extended dmm visage of the deity--cl 17

buffs from today

righteous aura-- cl 17
extended dmm persist divine favor--cl 17
extended dmm persist demon wings--cl 17
extended dmm persist divine favor--cl 17


how do i roll dice on the forum?

[PhoenixRivers]

1d20+3 [roll0]
would yield:
[roll1]

[Nohwl]

initiative

[roll0]

[Nohwl]

my turn

ok, ill move 20 feet to 7,b,10

do i get to see where you move, or what? how does this work? sort of wish you went first so i could see what i'm supposed to do.

edit--fixed a typo

[PhoenixRivers]

Generally, if we're going to be doing this you and me, there's going to need to be a certain level of trust involved.

As it's your turn, you get to move/cast/whatever. Generally, what I do is mention what areas of the board I have LOS to, and what vision modes I have (For example, if I were in L1, I would say that I had LOS to the entire area north of the north columns, and down the right side.)

I would post my actual turn mechanics in spoilers, much as you did.

[Nohwl]

alright. well, i guess its your turn.

[PhoenixRivers]

My Turn:DMM Quickened Wall of Stone. B1-C1(ground to 10 feet), B2-C2(ground to 10 feet), D1-E1(ground to 10 feet), D2-E2(ground to 10 feet), and dome it to cover the top. This will effectively put me in a 10x10x10 stone box at C1-D2.

Summon Undead (class ability) - Full round action.

If you have visibility to the area north of the northwest columns:a large stone dome formed at C1-D2.

Your turn.

[Nohwl]

ok

ill move to 3,b,15 and ill cast summon monster 7 to summon an avoral at 2,a and have it cast empowered magic missile at the dome

damage to dome

[roll0]

edit--

if you can see out of the dome

you can see a guy with demon wings has at 3,b,15 and an avoral at 2,a

[PhoenixRivers]

My turn:2 greater Shadows Appear in B1 and C1. Shadows benefit from Desecrate (bonus HP) and from improved summoning (+2 attack and damage)

DMM Quickened Divine interdiction on greater shadow 1.
Summon Undead (class ability)

Shadow Instructions: Hold for reinforcements.

My turn is over.

[Nohwl]

move to 3,a, 25 command avoral to use another empowered magic missile at the dome, targeting the same spot

damage to dome

[roll0]

if you can see out of the dome

i am at 3,a,25 and there is an avoral at 2,a

edit--my turn is done.

[PhoenixRivers]

My turn: 2 more greater shadows appear. (B1 and C1, Altitude +5)

Activate Karma bead.
Cast DMM Quickened Spell Resistance (SR 29)

Your turn.

[Nohwl]

i feel like i should be using a bunch of ifs to determine what i am doing.

command avoral to fly up to 25 feet and cast lightning bolt at the dome, shooting the same spot again.

[roll0]

if the dome is broken and i see something to attack

cast moon bolt and a quickened moon bolt

[roll1] for the first one, and [roll2] for the second. dc of 19 for both of them. fort save if the target is not undead, if it is undead, then its a will save. if there is only one undead, then i don't cast quickened moon bolt

if dome is broken and i see nothing

cast murderous mist inside the dome.

[roll3] reflex save, dc 20

if dome is not broken
cast see invisibility on myself

edit-that ends my turn

[PhoenixRivers]

Whether the dome is broken depends on damage types of the attacks.

The dome has 45 HP in any one square.

Most forms of damage must deal with the hardness, however. Most forms of energy damage are halved before dealing with it.

What are the damage types of the above attacks?

[Nohwl]

force, force, and electric.

don't think i've ever done an arena fight before. it might take a few tries for me to win.

[PhoenixRivers]

Force - hardness applies.
Electric - Halved, then hardness applies.

The dome is not broken.

(Force: 22-8 = 14 damage)
(Force: 21-8=13 damage) (27 total)
(Electricity: 26/2 = 13-8=5 damage) (33 total)

[PhoenixRivers]

My action: Cast Freedom of Movement

Order shadows to attack.

4 Creatures exit the dome, at C1, C2, B1, and B2 (altitude +15). They ghostlike and shadowy. What do they see?

(Turn not done)

[Nohwl]

alright. hopefully i'll adjust to this by the end of the battle.

[Nohwl]

guy in mithral armor, looks a bit demonic, has demon wings, at 3,a, 25.

avoral at 2,a,25.

edit--wow, i just realized i cant hover. alright. should i redo my movement, or ignore it?

[PhoenixRivers]

The creatures descend upon the avoral, ending movement in:

b1: +20
b1: +25
b2: +20
b2: +25

They all attack it. (Touch attacks)

Attack 1: [roll0]
If hit: [roll1] strength damage
If threat: [roll2]
If crit: [roll3] additional strength damage

Attack 2: [roll4]
If hit: [roll5] strength damage
If threat: [roll6]
If crit: [roll7] additional strength damage

Attack 3: [roll8] **Miss**
If hit: [roll9] strength damage
If threat: [roll10]
If crit: [roll11] additional strength damage

Attack 4: [roll12]
If hit: [roll13] strength damage
If threat: [roll14]
If crit: [roll15] additional strength damage

Provided the Avoral doesn't have any touch AC buffs active, it took 16 str damage.

EDIT: Leave it for now. We'll go over any rules issues after the match.

[Nohwl]

ok. havent really used flight that much.



anyway, ill drop to the ground. do i see anything? i have see invisibility up.

2d6

turn not over

[PhoenixRivers]

do you care if my movement speed was screwed up before?

Not particularly. It's a small arena, and you had several rounds to do what you wanted.

[Nohwl]

anyway, ill drop to the ground. do i see anything? i have see invisibility up.

[roll0]

turn not over

what do i see?

[PhoenixRivers]

You see the shadows, nothing more. They travelled through the wall of stone.

[Nohwl]

ok, ill cast quickened moon bolt at the closest one, and murderous mist so the bottom of it is 10 feet in the air to try and blind the shadows

moon bolt--will save if undead, fort save if not dc 19
[roll0]

murderous mist--reflex for half damage and not blinded, dc of 20
[roll1]

avoral is dead, and that ends my turn. anyway, i'm going to sleep for the night.

[PhoenixRivers]

Moon bolt will save: [roll0] (DC 19)

Reflex saves for creatures:

1: [roll1] **Blind**
Miss chance for damage: [roll2] 2 misses **No Damage**

2: [roll3]
Miss chance for damage: [roll4] 2 misses

3: [roll5] **Blind**
Miss chance for damage: [roll6] 2 misses **No Damage**

4: [roll7]
Miss chance for damage: [roll8] 2 misses

(Miss chance for incorporeal)

[PhoenixRivers]

My turn: The two shadows that CAN see drop down to +5 altitude, after moving to 3A and 2A.

Touch attack: [roll0]
If Hit: [roll1] Strength damage
If threat: [roll2]
If Crit: [roll3] Strength damage

Touch attack: [roll4]
If Hit: [roll5] Strength damage
If threat: [roll6]
If Crit: [roll7] Strength damage

Remaining two shadows move down to the sounds of combat, but do not attack, moving to 3A, 2A (altitude +10).

Remaining actions:Summon Undead again.

EDIT: Turn over.

[Nohwl]

i'll cast wings of cover as an immediate action to block the strength damage, and that gets rid of my swift for the next round.

on my turn, i'll 5 foot step back to 4,a and cast moon bolt at the 2 non blinded shadows.

miss on a 2
[roll0]
[roll1]

and its a will save or be helpless for

[roll2]
[roll3]

rounds.

[PhoenixRivers]

Note: Wings of Cover applies to 1 and 1 attack only. Granted, with touch attacks at 10 and 9, meh, but for future reference.

Also, as moon bolt doesn't deal damage, incorporeal miss chance does not apply.

Will Save 1: [roll0] DC 19
Will Save 2: [roll1] DC 19

[Nohwl]

i'm using it to block the first one. the second one was a natural one.

edit--would i use wings of cover like i was, after you roll, or do i put it before? i'm never sure where things go.

[PhoenixRivers]

1 Remaining Shadow moves forward to 3a (+5) and attacks:
2 Blind shadows move to 3a(+10) and 3a(underground)

Touch Attack: [roll0]
If hit: [roll1] Str damage.
If threat: [roll2]
If crit: [roll3] Str damage.

Shadow underground can sense the presence of adjacent foes (per rules on incorporeal), and attacks:

Touch Attack: [roll4]
Miss chance: [roll5] 1 hits
If hit: [roll6] Str damage.
If threat: [roll7]
If crit: [roll8] Str damage.

Remaining Actions:Dread Wraith appears in column (C3-D4, +0).

Full Round: Summon Undead.


i'm using it to block the first one. the second one was a natural one.

edit--would i use wings of cover like i was, after you roll, or do i put it before? i'm never sure where things go.
After is the generally accepted practice for actions that interrupt.

[Nohwl]

i feel like i suck. which is probably accurate.

anyway, i'm going to go back to a,8 and cast blinding spittle at the helpless shadow.

ranged touch
[roll0]
that ends my turn

[PhoenixRivers]

Shadow in A3 (inside ground) moves up to above ground.

Non-observable actions: Dread wraith 2 appears (C1-D2, in floor -10)
Dread wraith moves from C1-D2 to A3-B4 (still in floor).

Me: Summon Undead

They're all blind and milling about and stuff.

EDIT: Your turn.

[Nohwl]

i think there's one shadow that isn't blind.

anyway, i'm going to move to 8,e and cast summon monster 6 to summon a fiendish monstrous centipede, gargantuan. it's going to be placed at 1-4,e-h unless the dome is there. if the dome is there, then i'm going to put the centipede next to the dome. then i'm going to command it to try knocking the dome down. shooting it doesn't seem to be working.

strength check
[roll0]

that ends my turn.

[PhoenixRivers]

It breaks the dome, and sees me inside (a frail lesser aasimar at C2)

My turn: a Massive Wraith appears at C1-D2, Altitude +10

Ready an action: Cast Wall of stone defensively if attacked.

Wraith uses Spring attack to attack the centipede.

Touch Attack: [roll0]
If Hit: [roll1] damage and make a Fort DC 25
If threat: [roll2]
If Hit: [roll3] damage

This wraith then completes its movement at E8-F9, altitude +5.

Another identical wraith comes out of the pillar at c3-d4, using spring attack to attack the centipede.

Touch Attack: [roll4]
If Hit: [roll5] damage and make a Fort DC 25
If threat: [roll6]
If Hit: [roll7] damage

This wraith completes its move at C7-D8, at ground level.

A third identical wraith comes out of the ground at A3-B4, moving to E5-F6, using spring attack to attack the centipede.

Touch Attack: [roll8]
If Hit: [roll9] damage and make a Fort DC 25
If threat: [roll10]
If Hit: [roll11] damage

This wraith then completes its move at E6-F7, ground level.

[Nohwl]

ok, so, 3 fort saves for the centipede

[roll0]
[roll1]
[roll2]

[PhoenixRivers]

Two failed saves:
Con Drain: [roll0]
Con Drain: [roll1]

@Edit: 7 Con drain means it loses 48 from it's max HP, reducing it to 18 HP (with 4 damage, after DR).

[Nohwl]

ok, is that it for your turn?

[PhoenixRivers]

Yes, that's my turn.

[Nohwl]

alright, i want to cast haste on the centipede and tell it to full attack the aasimar.

bite attacks
[roll0]
[roll1]

if hits
[roll2]
[roll3]

if threatens
[roll4]
[roll5]

if crits
[roll6]
[roll7]

if they hit, its 2 fort saves at dc 17

[PhoenixRivers]

Casting a spell provokes AoO's from the dread wraiths.

Attacks:
Attack: [roll0]
If Hit: [roll1] and a DC 25 Fort save
If threat: [roll2]
If Crit: [roll3] and a DC 25 Fort save

Attack: [roll4]
If Hit: [roll5] and a DC 25 Fort save
If threat: [roll6]
If Crit: [roll7] and a DC 25 Fort save

Attack: [roll8]
If Hit: [roll9] and a DC 25 Fort save
If threat: [roll10]
If Crit: [roll11] and a DC 25 Fort save

For each of these attacks that hits, you'll need a concentration check (DC 10+damage dealt)

The attack triggers a readied action:

Defensively cast a Wall of Stone

A wall of stone appears at D1 and D2, blocking off access.

[Nohwl]

so a dc 30 concentration check, and 3 fort saves.

concentration
[roll0]

fort saves
[roll1]
[roll2]
[roll3]

guess i'm just waiting to die at this point.

[PhoenixRivers]

Actually, it's 3 concentration checks, DC 17, DC 16, and DC 17.

Failed fort saves: [roll0] Constitution Drain

EDIT: 12 Drain should result (if you're level 13) in -78 max HP (with 20 damage).

[Nohwl]

doesn't matter. i'm dead.

adding the con drain and the damage taken kills me.

[PhoenixRivers]

In that case, please post a list of all your gear for looting.

A couple pointers on the match:

1) Always defensively cast. It would have saved you AoO's that time.
2) Use a way to keep enemies away from you.

on a side note:

Magic missiles must attack creatures, not objects. The wall of stone was an invalid target.
Extend and Persist do not stack in ToS. You only get the better of the two.

Summons generally take a full round action to cast, unless you have one of the several abilities that speeds it to a standard action.

Other than that, I like the spell selections.

[Nohwl]

link to character sheet (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=205194)

yeah, i noticed summons were a full round action about 20 minutes ago.

don't know what i could have done against the wraiths.

never did an arena fight before, should i change my spell list to be more blinding and ability damage, or should it stay as it is?

[PhoenixRivers]

link to character sheet (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=205194)

yeah, i noticed summons were a full round action about 20 minutes ago.

don't know what i could have done against the wraiths.

never did an arena fight before, should i change my spell list to be more blinding and ability damage, or should it stay as it is?

blinding and ability damage are good, I liked that. Protection from Evil and casting defensively would have helped.

[Claudius Maximus]

I was away this weekend, and had no access to the internet. I wish I could have monitored this match, as I'm sure I could have prevented at least a few of the errors made. I apologize for any inconvenience.


After is the generally accepted practice for actions that interrupt.

Although sometimes there are exceptions for certain abilities, usually you don't get to know what your opponent rolls until it happens. You would have to declare Wings of Cover before knowing whether or not your opponent would beat your SR, and before your opponent rolls an attack. This is based off two things: first, you don't actually get to know what your opponent rolls at all. That you generally do in the ToS is a concession for arena combat made for fairness. All you know IC is that he managed to hit you, not whether he did it by 2 or 20 points. The second is the principal that interrupts happen before the action that they interrupt. You see your opponent start casting Orb of Acid, so you cast Wings of Cover. This is before the spell finished, and your opponent can even choose to aim it at someone else.


Extend and Persist do not stack in ToS. You only get the better of the two.

I thought this was the case as well, but when I looked I could not find any rule to that effect. I'm pretty sure they would stack favorably in the absence of such a rule, so I allowed it.


i feel like i suck. which is probably accurate.

Not necessarily. There are simply things you can handle and things you can't. PhoenixRivers was using a tactic that a surprising number of builds have little or no defense against. Your character was actually built pretty well; I'd say it was the difference in arena experience that decided this match.

Running exhibitions is a great way to get the hang of arena combat, and also a good way to find holes in a build. If you choose to run another character, consider participating in a few before submitting it for approval, and alter your character if it becomes apparent that something isn't going to work as well as you thought. I think you could be a real contender once you get the hang of this. Your first character was certainly better than mine, for example.

[PhoenixRivers]

I was away this weekend, and had no access to the internet. I wish I could have monitored this match, as I'm sure I could have prevented at least a few of the errors made. I apologize for any inconvenience.



Although sometimes there are exceptions for certain abilities, usually you don't get to know what your opponent rolls until it happens. You would have to declare Wings of Cover before knowing whether or not your opponent would beat your SR, and before your opponent rolls an attack. This is based off two things: first, you don't actually get to know what your opponent rolls at all. That you generally do in the ToS is a concession for arena combat made for fairness. All you know IC is that he managed to hit you, not whether he did it by 2 or 20 points. The second is the principal that interrupts happen before the action that they interrupt. You see your opponent start casting Orb of Acid, so you cast Wings of Cover. This is before the spell finished, and your opponent can even choose to aim it at someone else.
Yes, typically, your opponent puts his whole turn out there, and you react to triggers that you like. Technically, things should be spoilered in a tiered progression, and you decide before you open spoilers what you react to.

Something like:

I attack. If this is not reacted to:Roll here.

I attack again. If this is not reacted to:Roll here.


I thought this was the case as well, but when I looked I could not find any rule to that effect. I'm pretty sure they would stack favorably in the absence of such a rule, so I allowed it.I'm pretty sure it used to be a rule, but I cannot find it either.


Not necessarily. There are simply things you can handle and things you can't. PhoenixRivers was using a tactic that a surprising number of builds have little or no defense against. Your character was actually built pretty well; I'd say it was the difference in arena experience that decided this match.
One of the big things is how surprisingly hard it can be to deal damage to a wall of stone. Incorporeal undead just shoot right on out of it too. This character was built to be a team player; I just wanted to use his limited offensive potential to its fullest.


Running exhibitions is a great way to get the hang of arena combat, and also a good way to find holes in a build. If you choose to run another character, consider participating in a few before submitting it for approval, and alter your character if it becomes apparent that something isn't going to work as well as you thought. I think you could be a real contender once you get the hang of this. Your first character was certainly better than mine, for example.
This. I have a lot of experience in arena matches. A lot. The more you run them, the more you'll get used to what you can and can't do, and what is and isn't common. For example: if I were playing against one of the more established builds, I may have asked for a 10 or 20 foot high arena. With that, I could do some really dirty tricks, that had the potential to suffocate my opponent, without impacting my incorporeals at all.

Basically, my spell list was designed to be very friendly to incorporeals, which is what I specialize in, while giving good buff support to players as well.

Just remember: Protection from X is very good against minionmancers, as well as dominators. Otherwise, you made a solid showing, for a first match.