OOTS #721 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Lateral]

Hmm... Seems like Malack has more in mind than letting Oh Fat One eat Elan and co...

Heh, I'm sigging Enor's ramblings.

[silvadel]

Ouch -- thats gotta hurt ... As damaged as V is -- that could be deadly.

[Zanaril]

That looked painful.

Hehe... threshold.

[Yoctogram]

Ooh, a comic updated while I was online.
Nice one, by the way.

[Draz74]

Bwhaha. Post-Faustian-Pact V is waging a strong campaign to become my favorite character in the comic. :smallsmile:

:vaarsuvius: At last, we implement our most historically-successful stratagem.

[Zexion]

Awesome comic.
What could the Lizgreaper's plans be?

[term1nally s1ck]

VARIABLE SPEED CORN MUFFINS.

Best babble. <3

[Avilan the Grey]

More fictional mercenaries and bounty hunters should use that chart. Most of the time they are way too committed for their own good.


Edit:

VARIABLE SPEED CORN MUFFINS.

Best babble. <3

This gave me the first "LOL" of the day.

[pinwiz]

"variable speed corn muffins"

Love it!!! and peanut butter fish fillets actually do sound good... may have to try that sometime. :smallbiggrin:

[Kobold-Bard]

Love it. Awesome comic & awesome new DR. Who, this has been a good day for comedy everywhere.

Sucks to be V there, but at least Elan can heal a bit.

You keep updating while I'm online. I approve of this practise and request that you continue this practise.

[Mawhrin Skel]

Ooh, typo: "fithy traitor" in panel five.

There can't be too many half dragon-half ogres.

[Agi Hammerthief]

nice one

and some pain relief for the "what is the blue thing" discussion

that chart looks like it's made for cowards:
even 3Yummies vs. 1dagger =/= "yes"

[Thefurmonger]

loved it, hehe

[Kobold-Bard]

Just noticed Blackwing had to go through the Blade Barrier too. Could this be the end for our feathered friend?

DUN DUN DUNNN! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8Kyi0WNg40)

[Issabella]

Fantastic, thank you giant!

[Bongos]

I think I need one of those charts.

[Douglas]

Just noticed Blackwing had to go through the Blade Barrier too. Could this be the end for our feathered friend?

DUN DUN DUNNN! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8Kyi0WNg40)
Probably not, as a familiar he's got Improved Evasion.

[Dvandemon]

Great job Elan. If Malack gets away with that insult then Haley is probably right.

[Kobold-Bard]

Probably not, as a familiar he's got Improved Evasion.

Really? Never mind then :smallredface:

[Trixie]

Cue various theories explaining Gannji's birth in 3... 2... 1... :smalltongue:

Also, it would be funny if they were stopped by an army of guards (who were there just before) just behind Blade Barrier and had to go through it again, in the other direction, colliding with Malack who walked to it in the meantime ;P

[Aerysil]

Cool Blade Barrier!

Ok, so, now... a dragon and an ogre. Which one did.. er. I mean, did they both... nevermind.

[tom712]

Ok, so, now... a dragon and an ogre. Which one did.. er. I mean, did they both... nevermind.

Wizard did it.

[John Cribati]

I get it! Because Threshold is a synonym to gateway, and the "Pain" because of the Blade Barrier.

I Heart Puns

[Deme]

You know, they should really make a chart like that for Elan, albiet with "probably won't help/ABSOLUTELY will not help" for the options...but the premise of giving your mentally-challenged partymembers customized charts indicating the appropriate course of action is a good one. In fact, those two should just go into buisness selling these. Thog totally should get one, too.

[Flickerdart]

So Blackwing and Haley probably saved and took no damage. Elan would have taken damage (possibly half, if he has Evasion from the Dashing Swordsman or if he saved) but V has a crummy Reflex save from being a Wizard, and not stellar DEX. I can't find anything suggesting that being drained to 0 STR means you auto-fail Reflex saves (even though it makes sense) but his HP is no less crummy. Hopefully he has a healthy amount left from between the arrow and the barrier to avoid glancing blows that he can't stop due to being immobilized.

[chionophile]

nice one

and some pain relief for the "what is the blue thing" discussion

that chart looks like it's made for cowards:
even 3Yummies vs. 1dagger =/= "yes"

Not cowardly - greedy.

[Deth Muncher]

That last panel is brilliant.

[Spirited Charge]

Great comic. Despite having a few good jokes in there, I think the "variable-speed corn muffins" was my favorite :smalltongue:


Probably not, as a familiar he's got Improved Evasion.

Good to know. I was just wondering the same question myself.

[PaladinFreak]

Really, the funniest offering in a while. And I enjoyed the last couple as well.

And on the subject of the Half-Ogre's birth, remember that dragons can shapeshift...

[pinwiz]

Really, the funniest offering in a while. And I enjoyed the last couple as well.

And on the subject of the Half-Ogre's birth, remember that dragons can shapeshift...

Not ALL dragons can shapeshift as I recall.

Though this does support the "dragons + anything" idea. I approve. :smallsmile:

EDIT: and blue dragons are of the type that cannot shapeshift until they have a high enough spellcasting level.

[Arakune]

Cool Blade Barrier!

Ok, so, now... a dragon and an ogre. Which one did.. er. I mean, did they both... nevermind.

It's a dragon. It doesn't really matter here.

[Lateral]

So Blackwing and Haley probably saved and took no damage. Elan would have taken damage (possibly half, if he has Evasion from the Dashing Swordsman or if he saved) but V has a crummy Reflex save from being a Wizard, and not stellar DEX. I can't find anything suggesting that being drained to 0 STR means you auto-fail Reflex saves (even though it makes sense) but his HP is no less crummy. Hopefully he has a healthy amount left from between the arrow and the barrier to avoid glancing blows that he can't stop due to being immobilized.

Ya know, (s)he was only hit with a single crossbow bolt... the blade barrier probably can't do so much damage that (s)he is reduced to -10 from near-full, and as long as it doesn't reduce him/her that far, Elan can use a healing spell. We know he has MCLW, he said he was thinking of trading in something for CCW, and nothing says he doesn't already have CMW or CSW.

[warmachine]

What's going on? Elan has used healing and now he's using Lesser Confusion. He's using spells intelligently. He's useful! What happened?

[dps]

I like Gannji and Enor more every time they appear.

[GenPol]

Heh heh... Genieology...
Great comic Giant!

[Teddy]

Sweet, now we know that Enor is a half-dragon ogre half-ogre. I wonder, though, if Belkar would classify as two or seven daggers... :smallwink:

[greenb]

Peanut butter fish filets sound good to him?
...is he a half-dragon half-ogre half-timelord?

[Flickerdart]

Interesting note: While Malack's Blade Barrier has the same swords as Redcloak's, they're different colour. Redcloak's are red and green (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0457.html) while Malack's are blue and brown.

[Acero]

this pretty much confirms Malack is an enemy. The Queen doesn't even really seem to care

[CoffeeIncluded]

Ha-HA! Loved the chart! Please let V be okay...

And Elan was competent here! :smallbiggrin:

[Cewebwalz]

Wizard did it.
Menage a trois?

[Danne]

Cool Blade Barrier!

Ok, so, now... a dragon and an ogre. Which one did.. er. I mean, did they both... nevermind.

The dragon was the mommy, hun. Don't think of it much past that.

"Not being Nale..." Perhaps he should not be not-Nale? :thog:

I loved this. It was very clever. And I was in need of something to cheer me up, too! :smallbiggrin:

[The Troubadour]

See? Now THAT'S the Elan I've come to expect! :smallbiggrin:

[Mauve Shirt]

:smallbiggrin: Love the title! Also, :elan: he's useful!

[Tyrmatt]

Hmm, that's a fair point for V's HP. He has at best, 56HP or so. Assuming a standard magical hand-crossbow bolt, hits him for between 2-4 damage and Blade Barrier maxes out at 15d6 (average 52) damage... V's possibly sitting in the negatives now.

Sure, Elan can Mass CLW them but that's not gonna get them far, especially since neither Hayley nor Elan has the strength to carry the others while flying. Never mind that V is still STR damaged til he meets up with Durkon for a heal.

Suppose V can aid another with Elan on an illusion though...it worked before.

[dracoslaad]

Malack outright calling the Empress an idiot seems... suicidal. Think he's about to be re-classified as a breakfast food?

[Purple_cloack]

Go Elan! Nice work with the spells, man!

Malack is getting intersting....

[Kobold-Bard]

Malack outright calling the Empress an idiot seems... suicidal. Think he's about to be re-classified as a breakfast food?

Not really. She's an overweight, clearly not too bright Dragon. All he'll have to do is throw her a few extra cows and she'll forget it in an instant.

[NerfTW]

I get it! Because Threshold is a synonym to gateway, and the "Pain" because of the Blade Barrier.

I Heart Puns

It's a double pun, because the chart is also a way of figuring out how much pain the reward is worth. Two puns in one!

[CWater]

Thank you, Giant! I really needed something to cheer me up right now! :smallfrown::smalltongue: And today's strip is awesome!

Well, this one makes it pretty clear what Malack really thinks about the Empress.:smallamused: And Elan being useful for a change, that's nice.

But I do hope V is okay, Blade Barrier can do damage up to 15d6 depending on how high level Malack is, and I would think he's at least Orders level, so :smalleek:

[Danne]

Malack outright calling the Empress an idiot seems... suicidal. Think he's about to be re-classified as a breakfast food?

You're assuming she even noticed. She doesn't seem to be the sharpest tool in the shed.

[Gift Jeraff]

Good comic, but is Enor specifying that his non-dragon side is half-ogre (thus quarter-ogre), or is he noting the fact that half-dragons are always half something else (thus, a half-dragon ogre would be impossible)?

[DabblerWizard]

"...our most historically-successful stratagem" :smallbiggrin: Well said V.

Maybe V has prepared a Still Spell version of Teleport? *Crosses fingers*

[Iamyourking]

Wizard did it.

Or more likely a blue dragon wanted minions with herculean strength and toughness that were smart enough to follow complicated orders but not enough to think for themselves and produced half-ogre children to fulfill that role.

[Danne]

Good comic, but is Enor specifying that his non-dragon side is half-ogre (thus quarter-ogre), or is he noting the fact that half-dragons are always half something else (thus, a half-dragon ogre would be impossible)?

I believe it's a throwback to this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0555.html) comic. Therkla is half orc, half human; the orc chief is half orc, half orc. Enor is half dragon, half ogre.

Edit: Html fail!

[RMcMurtry]

V's strength was sapped, not her con. She's probably hurt but alive.

[Sebastian]

So Blackwing and Haley probably saved and took no damage. Elan would have taken damage (possibly half, if he has Evasion from the Dashing Swordsman or if he saved) but V has a crummy Reflex save from being a Wizard, and not stellar DEX. I can't find anything suggesting that being drained to 0 STR means you auto-fail Reflex saves (even though it makes sense) but his HP is no less crummy. Hopefully he has a healthy amount left from between the arrow and the barrier to avoid glancing blows that he can't stop due to being immobilized.

[rules lawyer mode]
but they are carrying him/her so it could count as a carried object, which is damaged only if one (or both?) of them roll a one on the saving throws, after all 15d6 of damage should be enough to destroy their clothes, but I doubt any of them would be naked in the next strip
[/rules lawyer mode] :smalltongue::smallwink:

[Sebastian]

Wizard did it.

This, or there was a lot of alcohol involved.

[Silverraptor]

"Something that's less deadly than an red dragon's stomach.":smallbiggrin: I gotta remember that.

[NerfTW]

"...our most historically-successful stratagem" :smallbiggrin: Well said V.

Maybe V has prepared a Still Spell version of Teleport? *Crosses fingers*

V doesn't have teleport. That's been a constant plot point over the course of the strip. It's one of his barred schools, to prevent the Order from always instantly teleporting to wherever they need to go.

[Sebastian]

I believe it's a throwback to this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0555.html) comic. Therkla is half orc, half human; the orc chief is half orc, half orc. Enor is half dragon, half ogre.

Edit: Html fail!

I think he means that he is not an ogre with the half dragon template but an half ogre with the half dragon template.
So, more correctly, he is an half dragon, quarter ogre, quarter human (probably)

[NerfTW]

I think he means that he is not an ogre with the half dragon template but an half ogre with the half dragon template.
So, more correctly, he is an half dragon, quarter ogre, quarter human (probably)

No, I think it's a joke on the tendency for only one part to be described as "half", even when coming from a non human. For instance, a half-elf is never referred to as a half-human. So he's pointing out he's not half "dragon ogre" which sounds like a type of ogre, or an ogre who's half dragon, but half-dragon, half-ogre.

[CWater]

I wonder why Malack considers it important not to let the Order escape? He was going to feed them to the Empress just a minute ago..

[pinwiz]

Enor could be ashamed of his Ogre side and therefore wishes people would call it half-ogre and therefore lessening the shame that he couldn't follow in his mother's pure draconic footsteps.

[Querzis]

Enor could be ashamed of his Ogre side and therefore wishes people would call it half-ogre and therefore lessening the shame that he couldn't follow in his mother's pure draconic footsteps.

I'm sure its really fun to overcomplicate anything but yeah, he was just pointing out that he was a Half-dragon, Half-Ogre not a half dragon ogre which doesnt mean anything.

[pinwiz]

I'm sure its really fun to overcomplicate anything but yeah, he was just pointing out that he was a Half-dragon, Half-Ogre not a half dragon ogre which doesnt mean anything.

oh. I forgot to add a :smalltongue: to that post... yeah. /sarcasm on that one.

[Arrowstorm122]

we got to know what the "yummy" was. well, they escaped, im blank for what happens now, we gonna see Roy and the rest maybe?

[FoE]

You know, people complain about how humans in D&D are willing to have sex with anything. And yet no breaths a word about how promiscious dragons are ....

I'm glad to see they escaped.

[Asta Kask]

You know, people complain about how humans in D&D are willing to have sex with anything. And yet no breaths a word about how promiscious dragons are ....

I know of at least one whose dreams are heavy on dragon promiscuity...

[theinsulabot]

I wonder why Malack considers it important not to let the Order escape? He was going to feed them to the Empress just a minute ago..

seeing as how the hunters had already made the delivery, he probably has to pay them for it, escape or not.

[Wardog]

nice one

that chart looks like it's made for cowards:
even 3Yummies vs. 1dagger =/= "yes"

They're mercenaries. (Well, mercenary bountyhunters, to be pedantic).

They're paid to catch and/or hurt people, not to get hurt themselves.

[Lateral]

GASP!

Blackwing flew through the blade barrier!

...granted, he has improved evasion, but still, that was dumb.

[hajo]

I wonder how big that 'catering budget' is :smallamused:

Also, I'd like to taste one of these muffins :smallbiggrin:

[amanamana]

Also, I'd like to taste one of these muffins :smallbiggrin:

Good luck catching it.

[AratanAenor]

I can't decided which I like better:

"Puns are for girls" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0714.html)
or
"Variable-speed corn muffins"

[dsavereide]

Every time Gannji says something, I hear Billy Crystal's voice. Maybe because I just watched Monsters, Inc.

I like the fact that the chart can result in No or Probably Not. So no matter what the cost/reward, stay away from pointy things.

[Dvandemon]

Heh heh... Genieology...
Great comic Giant!

Quick! Someone write up the prestige class! :smallbiggrin:


"...our most historically-successful stratagem" :smallbiggrin: Well said V.

Maybe V has prepared a Still Spell version of Teleport? *Crosses fingers*

V banned Conjuration

EDIT: Ninja'd

[Gift Jeraff]

I think he means that he is not an ogre with the half dragon template but an half ogre with the half dragon template.
So, more correctly, he is an half dragon, quarter ogre, quarter human (probably)
See, that's how I first read the line, and I came to this thread expecting every other post saying this guy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0216.html) is Enor's father.

[Quorothorn]

More fictional mercenaries and bounty hunters should use that chart. Most of the time they are way too committed for their own good.

True, that.

Also, this is the best OotS laugh I've had in...well, in a couple of strips.

[MonkeyBusiness]

"Sneak attack on a stick, Snake-Face" HAHAHAHA! I haven't laughed so much since "Head-butt sneak attack" about a billion comics ago! Thank you Rich!

I love that the "Are We Getting Paid Enough?" chart has only two options: "probably not" and "NO!". There is humor in truth ... and although I like to think I'm a bit sharper than Enor, I really could use a chart like that for myself. Maybe they'll start to sell 'em at Cafe Press.

I also love Haley's quip: " ... less deadly than the inside of a red dragon's stomach!" You know, whether you are the escapee or the pursuit, it's always good to have your priorities in mind, and to stick to them no matter what. (The importance of this increases with the velocity with which one travels.)

Thanks also for answering the "what the heck is the blue guy" and the "yummies" questions. It was not necessary information, but is sure is fun to know!

MBiz

[Castamir]

Since Malack is a big NPC in an at least level-appropiate fight, it's safe to assume he's no lower than level 15. So, the Blade Barrier damage is the full 15d6... ouchie.

[the_tick_rules]

I like the chart.

[deuxhero]

Is he a half-giant ogre or a half-ogre giant (and why would either side mate with the other)?

And what's with the angry icon?

[slayerx]

I wonder why Malack considers it important not to let the Order escape? He was going to feed them to the Empress just a minute ago..

That's because there's still a very high chance that the escapee is "nale"... He wants nale to pay for his betrayal, and probably also wants him to help serve as an example... Whatever the case, he was planning on killing Nale; and just because he chose "death by dragon" doesn't change the fact that he just plain wants nale dead.

If he had actually confirmed that elan wasn't nale then he probably wouldn't care too much about their escape, but he never confirmed that

[krossbow]

Since Malack is a big NPC in an at least level-appropiate fight, it's safe to assume he's no lower than level 15. So, the Blade Barrier damage is the full 15d6... ouchie.



Meh. 15d6 damage is peanuts. thats an average of 52.5 damage. Without a healer its nothing to sneeze at, but its not nearly enough to down a couple PC's by itself.

[MisterM]

On a stick! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3HPMYrbvbw)

[Deth Muncher]

Meh. 15d6 damage is peanuts. thats an average of 52.5 damage. Without a healer its nothing to sneeze at, but its not nearly enough to down a couple PC's by itself.

It IS enough to pwn Blackwing, and could be enough to smack V down depending on just how much that arrow hurt hir.

[Raging Gene Ray]

V has a crummy Reflex save from being a Wizard, and not stellar DEX. I can't find anything suggesting that being drained to 0 STR means you auto-fail Reflex saves (even though it makes sense) but his HP is no less crummy. Hopefully he has a healthy amount left from between the arrow and the barrier to avoid glancing blows that he can't stop due to being immobilized.

Being drained to 0 may actually work in V's favor if being immobile means he counts as an object on Haley's person, and would therefore rely on Haley's REF save.

[derfenrirwolv]

And yet no breaths a word about how promiscious dragons are

Because if you breathe a word about that they'll breathe on you.


Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

[Aldrakan]

The dragon was the mommy, hun. Don't think of it much past that.


...I'm confused as why this has only come up when its half-ogre instead of human. Dragon/anything hybrids all work the same way.
Step 1: Dragon changes into the appropriate species.
Step 2: Details vary depending on species.

That pretty much covers the logistics for whatever the other half is unless its something truly bizarre like a half dragon/grey ooze.

[Mojique]

I like Gannji. Hope, we see this pair of bounty hunters again one day.

[Starscream]

Love it. The chart was awesome. I want a t-shirt of that chart.

[Jackel]

Ok, so, now... a dragon and an ogre. Which one did.. er. I mean, did they both... nevermind.


Wizard did it.

Role-playing doesn't change the physics involved.

[squidbreath]

Ooh, I suspect that the albino's getting in trouble for calling her highness an idiot...

[Dr Bwaa]

Great lines. Great graph. :smallamused: Great comic.

[ColourDeaf]

Now I really hope those two don't die. I mean, they're probably the most sensible and level-headed villains in the entire comic! I appreciate that, and hope they become the personal guards/what have you of The Oracle

[NerfTW]

Role-playing doesn't change the physics involved.

A wizard did it with magic.

But beyond that, dragons can shape shift. Or the ogre could have been the father.


What's going on? Elan has used healing and now he's using Lesser Confusion. He's using spells intelligently. He's useful! What happened?

V started teaching him here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0478.html), where he held off the hobgoblins. He most likely continued training while on the boat, probably more after he failed to save Therkla with a spell he should have had, as he points out here. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0647.html)

[AgentofOdd]

Lesser Confusion is not a wizard/sorcerer spell correct? Not sure if the group will try to use that tidbit to defend themselves, but it does pique my interest.

[Scarlet Knight]

Or more likely a blue dragon wanted minions with herculean strength and toughness that were smart enough to follow complicated orders but not enough to think for themselves and produced half-ogre children to fulfill that role.

Or a blue dragon was flying around thinking, "Gods! It's been so long since I got any, even an ogre would look good now!"


BTW, Enor is humorous, but he's no Thog.

[J.Gellert]

Hehehe, awesome jokes on every panel (except 7) :smallbiggrin: Great strip!

Also, I like Haley's pragmatic attitude against the damage inflicted by blade barrier. She used to roleplay fire a long time ago :smalltongue:

[sihnfahl]

What's going on? Elan has used healing and now he's using Lesser Confusion. He's using spells intelligently. He's useful! What happened?
Class feature of the Dashing Swordsman. As danger intensifies, the Dashing Swordsman becomes more competent to increase dramatic tension.

It's designed to keep the story from ending prematurely.


Lesser Confusion is not a wizard/sorcerer spell correct?
Bard only ability.

[Grey Watcher]

Awww, man. Now I want a variable-speed corn muffin! I wonder if the cafe across the street makes them?

[NerfTW]

Class feature of the Dashing Swordsman. As danger intensifies, the Dashing Swordsman becomes more competent to increase dramatic tension.


Bard only ability.

Or, you know, it's part of his ongoing character development that's been pretty well documented and even noticed by Haley and Belkar when they were reunited.

He's been through an actual war. An actual, losing war, has nearly died multiple times, and failed to save a woman who loved him. It would be rather lazy of him to not improve on his class skills.

[Eorran]

Love it. The chart was awesome. I want a t-shirt of that chart.

+1 to that. How does one petition the Giant for more merchandise?:smallbiggrin:

And I feel the need to quote "Variable Speed Corn Muffins" somewhere now.

[sihnfahl]

Or, you know, it's part of his ongoing character development that's been pretty well documented and even noticed by Haley and Belkar when they were reunited.
What, character development!? Whoever heard of such a thing? :smalltongue:

[Zorn]

Another great comic! Before I read the comments here I figured the daggers on Enor's chart were spikes. Maybe it's because they're pointing upwards in a very spiky (spike-like? spike-ish?) fashion.


I wonder how big that 'catering budget' is :smallamused:

I was thinking the same thing. Not only is it large enough to encompass the 45,000 gp (35,000 + 2(5,000) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0715.html)) bounty of "Nale" and his "associates," I'm assuming it does so without making a big dent in said budget. I can't imagine the empress would much enjoy having to skimp on meals. Cows aren't exactly a delicacy either, desert setting or no, so just how much does this dragon eat?:smalleek:

[mistformsquirrl]

Bwahahaha <,< I like! Much, much better than the last strip imo. (That chart is priceless!)

[Blaznak]

Having a handy reference chart comes in handy!

[Jack of Spades]

Finally! I had been wondering whether I was paid enough to be a free-form freelance for-free Indiana Jones impersonator, and now I realize that boulders don't really count! (ie: not pointy)

Thank you, Giant!

[Klose_the_Sith]

As another person who would find a shirt of that chart awesome?

This was a good strip :smallamused:

[zimmerwald1915]

V started teaching him here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0478.html), where he held off the hobgoblins. He most likely continued training while on the boat, probably more after he failed to save Therkla with a spell he should have had, as he points out here. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0647.html)
V started teaching him to use his illusions better a couple hundred strips before the Celestial Lion incident (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0217.html).

[sabremeister]

Heh heh! Fantastic! V's got the best lines I've seen for a long time.

[ThreadKiller]

I agree - best strip in a while! Also, gotta love the recent succession of updates. Thanks, Giant! :smallbiggrin:

[yanmaodao]

I wonder if Enor, Ganjji, that dwarf, and that shadowdancer could form a crack bounty hunter/assassination team?

[kusje]

Or, you know, it's part of his ongoing character development that's been pretty well documented and even noticed by Haley and Belkar when they were reunited.

He's been through an actual war. An actual, losing war, has nearly died multiple times, and failed to save a woman who loved him. It would be rather lazy of him to not improve on his class skills.

Wouldn't that be admitting that his previous idiocy was deliberate? I didn't think that stupidity could be cured by merely undergoing hardship.

[RMcMurtry]

He could have gained levels and put new points into intelligence or wisdom.

[Kelvin360]

Since Malack is a big NPC in an at least level-appropiate fight, it's safe to assume he's no lower than level 15. So, the Blade Barrier damage is the full 15d6... ouchie.

Actually, we have only seen him use 6th level spells so it would be quite reasonable to assume that he is only 11th or 12th level. Of course next strip he will use a maximized flame strike and shoot me down, lol.




And yet no breaths a word about how promiscious dragons are
Because if you breathe a word about that they'll breathe on you.


Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

I was gonna use that line! :(

EDIT: Quote user fail. I am totally not new at this can you tell? >_> <_<

[term1nally s1ck]

It's obvious. He got to level 12, and put his new stat point into Int.

[Demonicbunny]

"variable speed corn muffins"

Love it!!! and peanut butter fish fillets actually do sound good... may have to try that sometime. :smallbiggrin:

Salmon Satay IS good.

Also:

:haley:: "I've had it with thers m!@$£ing snakes in this m!@$%ng p(a)lace!"

[Grey Watcher]

Wouldn't that be admitting that his previous idiocy was deliberate? I didn't think that stupidity could be cured by merely undergoing hardship.

Well, remember his big speech to Banjo on that island of orcs (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0558.html). At the beginning of the strip, life was one big game. Actual capabilities aside, Elan really DIDN'T take much of anything seriously. Having been through doubt, danger, peril, and perplexity, he's learned that the world is a much more dangerous place than he used to believe, and that there are things in it worth fighting, and fighting hard for. Thus, he's learned to make better use of his abilities in order to better fight for the things he loves.

[Alex Warlorn]

Now the empress of blood pudding eats the power behind the thrown for him upsetting her.

[lothos]

"Variable Speed Corn Muffins"

Brilliant ! Captain Random strikes again !
I think a few of my friends have lesser confusion permanently in effect on them :-)

[krossbow]

eh, have to admit. its not as good as 720. a few good quips, but you just can't top the "Up in their grill!" bit from the empress of blood in the last one.

[pinwiz]

Salmon Satay IS good.

I've only had the chicken or (maybe) beef kind, but you read my thoughts exactly. :smallbiggrin:

[Arutema]

I want a Variable Speed Corn Muffin recipe now.

[factotum]

Cool strip. Don't see why people are saying that Malack has to be a level-appropriate encounter, though...they were running away because of the red dragon, who, despite her enormous size, would be a more than level-appropriate encounter for the three of them, and that's before we take into account the two mercenaries, Malack, and any guards in the throne room!

[Me!]

hehe... peanut butter fish filets... ps: thx for all the new updates :smallbiggrin:

[Ave]

I didn't understand that chart, luckily the blue dogron did.
V is hurt, V has mage HP scale. His dex bonus (if applies) wouldn't apply.
How is he supposed to survive being minced?

[Bale Fire]

Just want to say thank you to Rich for providing such a funny and interesting series of strips recently, and at such a great pace. Really appreciated :smallwink:

[Teleporker]

Malack just called the empress a "bloated idiot" right to her face!

To me, this means she is not only a figurehead, she also knows it, and she is in it for the cows! Our albino friend just hired the biggest, dumbest dragon he could find, and offered her an "all you can eat" deal.

Can't blame him though. "Big, fat, humanoid-eating colossal she-dragon" sounds far scarier than "Skinny Albino lizardfolk priest of X" when it comes to raising an empire for yourself.

Oh, and now there is zero doubt in my mind. She has no idea who Nale even was.

[Kobold-Bard]

I didn't understand that chart, luckily the blue dogron did.
V is hurt, V has mage HP scale. His dex bonus (if applies) wouldn't apply.
How is he supposed to survive being minced?

1. It balances the risk (pointy) against the reward (tasty). They're mercenaries so they only do what they've been paid to do, and if the reward isn't worth it they'll just give up. Apparently chasing the captives through a high level caster's Blade Barrier (EXTREMELY pointy) didn't qualify as an acceptable risk.

2. Power of Plot, assorted pre-cast buffs, Elan healing her, being almost at full health to begin with so with a fair chance of survival (well, more chance than being eaten anyway).

[Asta Kask]

If she makes her save, that's 26 HPs average. Easily survivable.

What age category do you think Fat Red Dragon is?

[Moonshadow]

Couldn't Blackwing have just disappeared back into Hammerspace, or wherever he was when he wasn't speaking to V? Surely that would negate any damage from flying through the barrier.

[Demonicbunny]

I didn't understand that chart, luckily the blue dogron did.
V is hurt, V has mage HP scale. His dex bonus (if applies) wouldn't apply.
How is he supposed to survive being minced?

He's a wizard who is around the levels where outsiders start to become campaign cannonfodder and got hit with 1 (I repeat...ONE) arrow.
It was coated with a very powerful strenght reducing venom (so he can't move) but it's still maybe 20 hp max if it critted?

A single pass through a blade barrier, regardless of how powerful the priest is that cast it, isn't going to kill him. He'll be hurt, but he'll be ok. That is if he doesn't make his reflex save. If he does that barrier won't be all that troublesome.

Haley is probably going to get through unscathed given her awesome reflex save (like any rogue of that level) and evasion feat. Elan is in the same situation as V, except his reflex save is probably much better.

[DrGonzo]

Oohh, updates, updates! Supersonic updates!

Elan is really getting in the spirit of things, isn´t he?

[Crod]

Lesser confusion? Ouch, I remember that going horribly wrong in some low-level campaign. It's much, much to dangerous to use when you are close to the one you are affecting due to the random outcome. But maybe that was his best choice, not sure it can be saved against.

[Hallavast]

So... Haley sneak-a-stabs the dude and runs. I wonder (and not for the first time) if she's picked up a feat like hamstring or some such? I don't have the rule in front of me, but it allows something like the rogue taking off Sneak attack damage in exchange for hampering the enemy's movement. It seems like a good feat for an archer type rogue to take, but then again, it might only apply to melee sneak attacks...

[paddyfool]

Another possibility on Enor's parentage:

Ogre magi have the change shape ability. It's possible for a dragon (shapeshifted via the feat that enables any dragon to get the ability or via spellcasting) to hook up with an ogre mage while neither of them were aware of the other's true form... or even while each privately suspected the other to be one of his own kind.

[Snake-Aes]

Another possibility on Enor's parentage:

Ogre magi have the change shape ability. It's possible for a dragon (shapeshifted via the feat that enables any dragon to get the ability or via spellcasting) to hook up with an ogre mage while neither of them were aware of the other's true form... or even while each privately suspected the other to be one of his own kind.

That's a soap opera waiting to happen, if it hadn't already.

[Tyrmatt]

That's a soap opera waiting to happen, if it hadn't already.

Coming up tomorrow on "As the Wyrm Turns"...

[JoseB]

Coming up tomorrow on "As the Wyrm Turns"...

Ack! Mental image! Brain Bleach! Please!

[Wanderer]

More fictional mercenaries and bounty hunters should use that chart. Most of the time they are way too committed for their own good.

Agreed. It's amazing the number of such people in games who will insanely charge in and get their entire group slaughtered, never trying to retreat or surrender, despite the fact that the main character has just finished wiping out a half-dozen groups just like theirs. It never seems to occur to any of them that they can't collect any bounty if they're dead.

[willpell]

Best comic in weeks. "Peanut-butter fish fillets! Hey that sounds good...." = literal lol.

[Castamir]

Meh. 15d6 damage is peanuts. thats an average of 52.5 damage. Without a healer its nothing to sneeze at, but its not nearly enough to down a couple PC's by itself.
"Peanuts"?? How can you dismiss damage that in the AVERAGE case will drop V down to bleeding to death, and if he rolls a bit unluckily for either this or the massive damage roll, down to the prestigious status of "dead"?

V's hp is just 15d4+CON. With the current estimate of his CON of ≤12 that gives him 52.5 hp on the average, exactly the same as Blade Barrier's damage. Add in a magical crossbow bolt to the chest. It was 1d10 or 1d12 plus enchantment (or, if Enor used merely a medium-sized crossbow, 1d8 or 1d10 for light/heavy crossbow), and we know that enchantment is > 0. With character levels involved, I'd doubt it's just +1, too.

Thus, in the average case, we have V at -8 hp. That makes the chance for "dead" slightly below 50%.

Unless you can persuade the GM to somehow apply Haley's feats and saves to V (who's being carried by her and Elan), it's certainly not worth the risk. Run around the dragon and jump out of the window or something...

[valce]

Can't blame him though. "Big, fat, humanoid-eating colossal she-dragon" sounds far scarier than "Skinny Albino lizardfolk priest of X" when it comes to raising an empire for yourself.


Indeed! And let's not forget the most important bit -- he gets to survive! When a new regime takes over (which we're told is a common occurrence), the current emperor/empress will probably be out on their ear. But a mere advisor, a priest, someone who knows where the palace brooms are kept and other such important things... Well, they've got a much better chance of being kept around, or at least not being killed.

Granted, it would take a pretty powerful usurping force to take out a red dragon :P

[binyamin20]

eh, have to admit. its not as good as 720. a few good quips, but you just can't top the "Up in their grill!" bit from the empress of blood in the last one.

All comics are equally awesome.

[Stille_Nacht]

wait, does each d4 get the Con added to it?
if so, V has 15d(4+con), now v is not exactly a tank or toughy, so id say his/her con is 10 maybe 11, thats either plus 1 or plus nothing. So if con goes on every d4, its 15d5 or 15d4 for him anyway, which is lower than 15d6. Also, you factor in the enchanted, poisoned bolt (1d12+?), i am assuming an ogre dragon uses a heavy crossbow, i mean, its a half dragon. Also, V has strength damage, V cannot move, there is no earthly way V will make the reflex save, actually i think V would be automatically crited if magic could crit (not sure about that). So thats 15d6+1d12+? vs 15d5(max) or 52.5+6+? vs 45(averages), but then again V may very well survive if the blade barrier gets bad roles, which it probabely will, after all, cant have the mage dying

on an unrealated side not, Varsuvius's comment regarding the chair was far funnier :p

[Neopolis]

Coming up tomorrow on "As the Wyrm Turns"...
...bwahahaha, well played.

[Snake-Aes]

wait, does each d4 get the Con added to it?
if so, V has 15d(4+con), now v is not exactly a tank or toughy, so id say his/her con is 10 maybe 11, thats either plus 1 or plus nothing. So if con goes on every d4, its 15d5 or 15d4 for him anyway, which is lower than 15d6. Also, you factor in the enchanted, poisoned bolt (1d12+?), i am assuming an ogre dragon uses a heavy crossbow, i mean, its a half dragon. Also, V has strength damage, V cannot move, there is no earthly way V will make the reflex save, actually i think V would be automatically crited if magic could crit (not sure about that). So thats 15d6+1d12+? vs 15d5(max) or 52.5+6+? vs 45(averages), but then again V may very well survive if the blade barrier gets bad roles, which it probabely will, after all, cant have the mage dying

on an unrealated side not, Varsuvius's comment regarding the chair was far funnier :p
No no, the dice doesn't change. The con modifier is added to each dice after it is rolled. A con of 12(modifier of +1) nets v 15d4 + 15 hp.

[The MunchKING]

I wonder why Malack considers it important not to let the Order escape? He was going to feed them to the Empress just a minute ago..

He wants to KILL them (probably slowly and painfully for their part in the coup coup. :smalltongue:) NOT let them go free and try again.

[Shatteredtower]

All comics are equally awesome.


But some are more equally awesome than others.

Actually, I don't think the Giant's ever awed me. Impressed, sure, but never left me in a state where my world got put on hold for a bit. Today was amusing, though, especially V's last comment.

[Bongos]

I think that escape was a little too easy...I wonder what the Giant has up his sleave.

[martinkou]

"Peanuts"?? How can you dismiss damage that in the AVERAGE case will drop V down to bleeding to death, and if he rolls a bit unluckily for either this or the massive damage roll, down to the prestigious status of "dead"?

V's hp is just 15d4+CON. With the current estimate of his CON of ≤12 that gives him 52.5 hp on the average, exactly the same as Blade Barrier's damage. Add in a magical crossbow bolt to the chest. It was 1d10 or 1d12 plus enchantment (or, if Enor used merely a medium-sized crossbow, 1d8 or 1d10 for light/heavy crossbow), and we know that enchantment is > 0. With character levels involved, I'd doubt it's just +1, too.

Thus, in the average case, we have V at -8 hp. That makes the chance for "dead" slightly below 50%.

Unless you can persuade the GM to somehow apply Haley's feats and saves to V (who's being carried by her and Elan), it's certainly not worth the risk. Run around the dragon and jump out of the window or something...

V survived Girard's BOOOM explosive trap, and Girard was epic. A Blade Barrier is nothing. The cleric is going to roll a 1 just like Girard's trap did.


I think that escape was a little too easy...I wonder what the Giant has up his sleave.

They're still in the castle. They haven't escaped yet.

[NerfTW]

Wouldn't that be admitting that his previous idiocy was deliberate? I didn't think that stupidity could be cured by merely undergoing hardship.

Uh, what? Yes, here in the real world, "stupidity" can be cured by LEARNING and growing as a person, which often takes the form of some hardship that changes a person's outlook on life. One can assume the same standards apply to fictional characters as well.

Elan never took things seriously, and was treated as excess baggage by the group. His rescue of Haley, aiding the team's escape in the battle, holding off hobgoblins, and then being forced to take on a larger role with the team caused him to realize he needed to be (and in fact could be) more effective in battle.


That's sort of how life works.

[Bongos]

V survived Girard's BOOOM explosive trap, and Girard was epic. A Blade Barrier is nothing. The cleric is going to roll a 1 just like Girard's trap did.



They're still in the castle. They haven't escaped yet.
Exactly what I meant. I mean, the Chancellor kobold/dragon thing is still out there. OOoooOOOooOOOooH!

[zimmerwald1915]

"Peanuts"?? How can you dismiss damage that in the AVERAGE case will drop V down to bleeding to death, and if he rolls a bit unluckily for either this or the massive damage roll, down to the prestigious status of "dead"?
Sorry to derail from the stats and probability debate, but there could be a very interesting consequence to V becoming dead at this point. Namely, the Giant might show us another confrontation between V and the Fiends. Personally, given the events since this last happened, it'd be an interesting reunion to watch, though not a terribly dramatic first reunion. This could be an argument as to why V is not going to die here.

[Darcy]

Ahahahaha, I like the graph. With the corresponding amounts of blades and chickens...

[amuletts]

Very good chart! I'm always amazed at NPCs who run blindly after the heroes with apparently no sense of self preservation whatsoever.

[ThePhantasm]

I wonder if we'll start seeing t-shirts with that chart on it in the OOTS store.

[Tundar]

One of the better comics for quite some time.
Sneak attack on a stick! Did Haley play Fallout?

Poor V, at least Elan and Haley still have a decent Reflex Save. Go go gadget minor group heal :)

Taking bets on when a bakery will recieve orders for Variable Speed Corn Muffins.

And I wonder if Malack will get away with calling the Queen an idiot?

[Tobimaro]

You know, people complain about how humans in D&D are willing to have sex with anything. And yet no breaths a word about how promiscious dragons are ....

I'm glad to see they escaped.

Now if we can only begin to talk about those randy celestials and devils with their "templates" :smallbiggrin:

Great comic, Giant!

[Danne]

I wonder if we'll start seeing t-shirts with that chart on it in the OOTS store.

That would be awesome. :smallbiggrin:

[Hendel]

Being drained to 0 may actually work in V's favor if being immobile means he counts as an object on Haley's person, and would therefore rely on Haley's REF save.

Actually, having a strength of 0 means that V is helpless. Being helpless means that V still gets a reflex save but V's dexterity is also considered to be a 0 so there is no dexterity bonus applied and V take a -5 penalty to boot.

Nowhere does it say that a helpless character is an object. I would probably save the classification of a being as an object until that being was actually dead, then they could be considered an object and Haley's evasion would be effective if she was carrying the corpse as much as for all of Haley's equipment (which wouldn't matter unless she rolled a "1").

V's lack of teleport ability due to the prohibited school of conjuration has really come to bite the order in the butt a few times. Maybe a pair of boots or some other item (other than wands and staves of course) to teleport or dimension door the party to safety is worthy of a shopping spree. Of course, this is a comic, so the plot is what drives decisions like this not in game survivability.

[doodthedud]

I wonder if we'll start seeing t-shirts with that chart on it in the OOTS store.

I certainly hope so.

[Dusk Eclipse]

.... I just like Ganji and Enor more and more also I need want a shirt with the chart.

[term1nally s1ck]

Teleport, even if you can, is not a spell you want to prep every day. Many days it'll go unused, and if you need it to travel, you probably are gonna want more than one.

Dim Door, on the other hand..

[gadren]

So is Enor an orge with the half dragon template, or a half ogre with the half dragon template applied? Cuz an orge half-dragon would technically be a half dragon half ogre, while a half ogre with the half dragon template would technically be a half dragon quarter ogre. And what if he also had the half-fiend template, then he'd be a half-dragon, half-fiend, half-ogre, wait that's too many halves, he'd be a quarter dragon, quarter...
:eek:
oh no, I've gone cross-eyed...

[factotum]

Dim Door, on the other hand..

...has a relatively short range, and isn't relevant anyway because it's as much barred to V as Teleport is, being of the same school.

[doodthedud]

So is Enor an orge with the half dragon template, or a half ogre with the half dragon template applied? Cuz an orge half-dragon would technically be a half dragon half ogre, while a half ogre with the half dragon template would technically be a half dragon quarter ogre. And what if he also had the half-fiend template, then he'd be a half-dragon, half-fiend, half-ogre, wait that's too many halves, he'd be a quarter dragon, quarter...
:eek:
oh no, I've gone cross-eyed...

He seems as intelligent as an ogre. The half-ogre Roy met seemed smarter than Enor.

[Felecies]

Sweet, now we know that Enor is a half-dragon ogre half-ogre. I wonder, though, if Belkar would classify as two or seven daggers... :smallwink:

Totally seven!:belkar: nothing can beat the Belkster!

[wzeller]

Wouldn't that be admitting that his previous idiocy was deliberate? I didn't think that stupidity could be cured by merely undergoing hardship.

No, but it can and is cured through training and practice. Training and practice that a person might avoid if lacking the appropriate motivation: Motivation acquired by the combination of undergoing hardship and the desire to avoid repeating the experience.

[Forealms]

Malack outright calling the Empress an idiot seems... suicidal. Think he's about to be re-classified as a breakfast food?

Meh. It seems like Malack and the Empress are familiar enough with each other (and have some history, of course*) that the Empress is used to the occasional random insult.

* No, not that kind.

[Herald Alberich]

Class feature of the Dashing Swordsman. As danger intensifies, the Dashing Swordsman becomes more competent to increase dramatic tension.

It's designed to keep the story from ending prematurely.

Or, you know, it's part of his ongoing character development that's been pretty well documented and even noticed by Haley and Belkar when they were reunited.

He's been through an actual war. An actual, losing war, has nearly died multiple times, and failed to save a woman who loved him. It would be rather lazy of him to not improve on his class skills.

I think sihnfahl has a point there, actually - Elan's been fairly stupid since he woke up, but now that there's action and not just talking happening, he's suddenly on the ball again. I don't think I'd go so far as to call it a class feature, but it is interesting that he seems to be smarter when the weapons are out. It does fit the Dashing Swordsman's action-hero persona.

[term1nally s1ck]

per-encounter boost to mental stats? limited uses a day? Who knows.

[Morgan Wick]

Yeah... Elan isn't going to help his not-Nale credentials with how much he takes charge and acts reasonably intelligent in this strip.

I have a feeling we're not done yet...

[Tobrian]

Good comic, but is Enor specifying that his non-dragon side is half-ogre (thus quarter-ogre), or is he noting the fact that half-dragons are always half something else (thus, a half-dragon ogre would be impossible)?

Well [pedant mode on] technically under 3.5 rules stuff like "half-dragon" or "half-fiend" is not a race (like half-elf or half-orc) but a template which is applied on top of your base race.

So if you're a "half-dragon human", you're actually counting as full human, ruleswise (meaning you get the extra feat and skill points and whatnot) plus an added template. If you're a "half-dragon ogre", you're genetically 1/2 dragon and 1/2 ogre but ruleswise a full ogre with the half-dragon template, while a "half-dragon half-ogre" would be 1/4 ogre, 1/4 something else from the grandparents's side, with the added template of half-dragon from the parents's generation. Just as a "half-dragon half-elf" is the offspring of a half-elf and a dragon mating.

Yes, don't try to think about it too deeply, but that's how the game rules work. It does make a certain sense, but the wording of the terms is counter-intuitive.

Which is what the whole joke was about, I suppose.

Edited to add:

Uh, what? Yes, here in the real world, "stupidity" can be cured by LEARNING and growing as a person

Learning is not the same as IQ (even multiple IQs favored today by psychologists). One definition of intelligence is the ability to combine things you already know in new and clever ways and to react to new situations. Some people just ARE slow in the head, and no amount of life experience, book learning or "growing as a person" will ever change that.

The comic even implied brain damage brought on by baby Nale hitting baby Elan's soft, unprotected skull with a toy all the time as an explanation why their mental faculties differ so much.

[Alex Warlorn]

I didn't understand that chart, luckily the blue dogron did.
V is hurt, V has mage HP scale. His dex bonus (if applies) wouldn't apply.
How is he supposed to survive being minced?

And being an elf won't help matters (lower Con). Hopefully the dice will smile upon him and give him a low damage roll (though in my game I just roll damage once and apply it to all characters involved).

If not, then his contract with the fiends becomes meaningless, or if they don't bother to collect right away, V will be clued in that they DIDN'T mean 'control over your soul -after-' you're dead.

[Alex Warlorn]

Malack just called the empress a "bloated idiot" right to her face!

To me, this means she is not only a figurehead, she also knows it, and she is in it for the cows! Our albino friend just hired the biggest, dumbest dragon he could find, and offered her an "all you can eat" deal.

Can't blame him though. "Big, fat, humanoid-eating colossal she-dragon" sounds far scarier than "Skinny Albino lizardfolk priest of X" when it comes to raising an empire for yourself.

Oh, and now there is zero doubt in my mind. She has no idea who Nale even was.

Malack's scheme is a practical one, considering how long empires last around here (which makes me wonder how they manage to continue to have fighting able adult populations large enough to continue to form armies as they crush each other under their superior military might). Having a very big target take the credit while he takes the power is realistic.

However it's also a balancing act. Choose TOO stupid a figure head, and there is nothing to provide their loyalty, all anyone needs to do is offer the Empress a larger buffet and Malack becomes an appetizer.

AND after calling a 'bloated idiot' after she's been surrounded by people telling her SHE'S the one in charge in spite of actual facts, might increase her sense of self worth to where during Malack giving her a long lecture about how worthless and stupid she is, she just eats him to shut him up, and the -next- wannabee tyrant comes along when she's left with a small empire she has no idea how to actually run.

[Alex Warlorn]

If she makes her save, that's 26 HPs average. Easily survivable.

What age category do you think Fat Red Dragon is?

Haley has Evasion, so even IF she doesn't make her save she's still only in it for half-damage.

*gets out monster manual*

Even considering that much of her is fat, I think she's at least a mature adult. Which puts at a CR of 18, but due to her bloated status, that puts her more likely at a CR of 16.

[Martok]

Hee! So much classic OOTS humor in this strip. It reminds me of the jokes from the first book (Dungeon Crawlin' Fools). :smallcool:

[Alex Warlorn]

Agreed. It's amazing the number of such people in games who will insanely charge in and get their entire group slaughtered, never trying to retreat or surrender, despite the fact that the main character has just finished wiping out a half-dozen groups just like theirs. It never seems to occur to any of them that they can't collect any bounty if they're dead.

These type are justified if they fear a slow death at the hands of their 'employer' more than a quick death in battle. Or the fact the heroes just killed half their team mates suddenly makes it personal and they forget they can just walk away and be paid and resurrect their buddies another day.

[Alex Warlorn]

Unless you can persuade the GM to somehow apply Haley's feats and saves to V (who's being carried by her and Elan), it's certainly not worth the risk. Run around the dragon and jump out of the window or something...

"Save me! Throw me out the window!!!"

Applying the save of the person whose carrying V who CAN'T make a reflex save right now would be a nice argument, the type that makes the GM want to pull his hair out when he thought he had a PC death right in his lap.

[Alex Warlorn]

Very good chart! I'm always amazed at NPCs who run blindly after the heroes with apparently no sense of self preservation whatsoever.

That's because many DM's forget that the reason the vast majority of the monsters in their game world exist in spite of appearances is NOT "kill the player characters at all costs or die trying."

[zimmerwald1915]

Meh. It seems like Malack and the Empress are familiar enough with each other (and have some history, of course*) that the Empress is used to the occasional random insult.

* No, not that kind.
To the crack pairings thread?

[Hendel]

Haley has Evasion, so even IF she doesn't make her save she's still only in it for half-damage.

*gets out monster manual*

Even considering that much of her is fat, I think she's at least a mature adult. Which puts at a CR of 18, but due to her bloated status, that puts her more likely at a CR of 16.

Actually with Evasion she will still take full damage if she fails her save. If she has Improved Evasion, then she is looking at half or no damage.

PS It took me a second to get that you were talking about the Empress of Blood in the second paragraph. At first I thought you were being overly critical of poor Haley's weight.

[Kobold-Bard]

To the crack pairings thread?

Not anymore, it got closed :smallfrown:

I reckon Elan should retrain as a Sorcerer, or at least trade in those DS levels for more Bard. He's still not good at combat, but he seems to be coming on leaps and bounds in the magic department.

I know the DS levels are important storywise and they always offer some fun new Class Ability, but everything he does seems to work much more effectively when he doesn't have a sword in his hand.

[JonestheSpy]

I reckon Elan should retrain as a Sorcerer, or at least trade in those DS levels for more Bard. He's still not good at combat, but he seems to be coming on leaps and bounds in the magic department.

Outside of fallen paladins becomig blackguards, the whole trading class levels thing really doesn't exist.


I know the DS levels are important storywise and they always offer some fun new Class Ability, but everything he does seems to work much more effectively when he doesn't have a sword in his hand.

Oh, you mean like here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0393.html) or here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0684.html)?

[Kobold-Bard]

Outside of fallen paladins becomig blackguards, the whole trading class levels thing really doesn't exist.



Oh, you mean like here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0393.html) or here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0684.html)?

Retraining exists.

And I'll accept that he has become alright at it (and tbh have no defence of the Nale fight, that was awesome), but the bug-people could have been dealt with just as easily Bardily.

[Asta Kask]

To me, this means she is not only a figurehead, she also knows it, and she is in it for the cows! Our albino friend just hired the biggest, dumbest dragon he could find, and offered her an "all you can eat" deal.

And honestly, who among us wouldn't take that deal?

[Garwain]

V is not paying attention during a daring escape! With hir keen elven senses (s)he should have heard Malack casting the blade barrier. (S)he knows damn well what they're facing!

We know there are 2 guards standing outside the door they've jumped through, then the outer doors of the palace and then the walls around the complex and the borders of the Empire are guarded as well. I don't want to sound pessimistic, but I think they need more firepower to escape here.

On the other hand, Haley knows how to drag dead weight around in the midst of a hostile city.

[beeblebear]

I would love to have that graph on a T-shirt.

[Snake-Aes]

Outside of fallen paladins becomig blackguards, the whole trading class levels thing really doesn't exist.

It's been proposed on a couple official books...and frankly? It just makes sense that one can retrain.

[Scarlet Knight]

And honestly, who among us wouldn't take that deal?

"Imagine if they made me do shows every day for a buffet ...well, that would be pretty goo...uh, that would be WRONG!" - John Pinette

[kusje]

"Save me! Throw me out the window!!!"

Applying the save of the person whose carrying V who CAN'T make a reflex save right now would be a nice argument, the type that makes the GM want to pull his hair out when he thought he had a PC death right in his lap.

Except that there are 2 people carrying V. Should we apply Haley's save or Elan's save? Or should it be the average of both?

[Shale]

If I'm GM'ing and feeling generous, I'd say that if they both make their saves, V makes his/hers too. If either one misses, the blades hit V full-on.

[Hendel]

If I'm GM'ing and feeling generous, I'd say that if they both make their saves, V makes his/hers too. If either one misses, the blades hit V full-on.

Obviously a DM can do as they please, but a helpless PC/NPC/Monster still gets their own reflex save (albeit with a significant penalty due to a dexterity of 0). That would be the way that I would rule it according to the rules.

[Shale]

It'd be because V isn't just helpless but being moved around completely under someone else's power. In that case I think it makes more sense for Elan and Haley to control where V ends up than for him/her to get a roll independent of the people who are actually doing the moving.

[NerfTW]

These type are justified if they fear a slow death at the hands of their 'employer' more than a quick death in battle. Or the fact the heroes just killed half their team mates suddenly makes it personal and they forget they can just walk away and be paid and resurrect their buddies another day.

That, and mercenaries usually live off their reputation. They usually get some money for supplies up front. If you're known for turning tail and running, nobody is going to risk hiring you.

But these are bounty hunters, so they don't need to worry about that, since bounties are apparently an "anyone with a license" proposition in this area.

[plasma ball]

I... have never heard, thought of, or seen a half-dragon half-orge. I would think that he would have normal intelegence, with dragons beaing super smart and orges beaing rather dumb. wouldn't they have canceled each other out to make a normal beaing:smallconfused:

Relitivly speaking, of cource.

Isn't blade barrier green? That's the collor that RC spell was in comic 457. Mabey it depends on the mage...

[Hendel]

I... have never heard, thought of, or seen a half-dragon half-orge. I would think that he would have normal intelegence, with dragons beaing super smart and orges beaing rather dumb. wouldn't they have canceled each other out to make a normal beaing:smallconfused:


Actually Half-Dragons get a +2 adjustment to Intelligence and a normal Ogre gets a -4 penalty to Intelligence. I do not have the stats in front of me for a Half-Ogre template (Dragon #313), but I am guessing it is a penalty. That being said, Intelligence looks like a dump stat for one of Enor's build. So at best a 10 but probably an 8 or lower if I had to guess.

Of course, this is a comic and not the game, so the Giant is free to make his characters however he feels like it.

[Doug Lampert]

It IS enough to pwn Blackwing, and could be enough to smack V down depending on just how much that arrow hurt hir.

Blackwing has half V's maximum HP, a better reflex save, and IMPROVED EVASION, so Blackwing takes at worst half damage (from half HP) and is likely to take nothing. Meanwhile V probably takes full damage.


Being drained to 0 may actually work in V's favor if being immobile means he counts as an object on Haley's person, and would therefore rely on Haley's REF save.

Umm, is he DEAD? Because in D&D 3.x rules object is a term of art for things that aren't considered creatures, and unless V is dead he's a creature.

DougL

[NerfTW]

I... have never heard, thought of, or seen a half-dragon half-orge. I would think that he would have normal intelegence, with dragons beaing super smart and orges beaing rather dumb. wouldn't they have canceled each other out to make a normal beaing:smallconfused:


Um, you know stats can still vary past the +4/-2 or whatever bonus/penalties, right? You can still have a stupid dragon, just like you can have a smart Ogre. They just have to overcome the penalty, usually by shorting another stat.


Expecting every member of a race to be identical is rather racist of you. /joke :smalltongue:

[Kieran Cage]

[rules lawyer mode]
but they are carrying him/her so it could count as a carried object, which is damaged only if one (or both?) of them roll a one on the saving throws, after all 15d6 of damage should be enough to destroy their clothes, but I doubt any of them would be naked in the next strip
[/rules lawyer mode] :smalltongue::smallwink:

Here's the problem with the whole "paralyzed V as a carried object of Haley's" theory: Encumbrance

If Haley wishes to carry V as she would an item, then V's weight, including all items and gear, etc. would be added to Haley's encumbrance.

Given that Haley has never been shown to have exceptional strength, and is primarily a ranged combatant, and that with a longbow, not a composite bow (which could give her a bonus to damage with a strength score of 12 or higher) it is fair to conclude her strength is only average at best, and that carrying V's weight (guessed roughly at 100-130 lbs or so) would put her squarely into the Heavy Load category, drastically reducing her dex bonus to saves.

Additionally, though not in the RAW, every campaign which I have run or played dictated that any feats, class abilities or the like which relied on swift movement, or required no heavier than light armor, were similarly ineffective when carrying any more than a light load.

So it seems likely that V will have to rely on her ability to absorb the damage rather than taking advantage of Haley's rogue class abilities.

Then again, the rule of plot dictates that if V is going to survive, then the damage dice could easily read all 1's. :smallbiggrin:

[Snake-Aes]

Here's the problem with the whole "paralyzed V as a carried object of Haley's" theory: Encumbrance

If Haley wishes to carry V as she would an item, then V's weight, including all items and gear, etc. would be added to Haley's encumbrance.

Given that Haley has never been shown to have exceptional strength, and is primarily a ranged combatant, and that with a longbow, not a composite bow (which could give her a bonus to damage with a strength score of 12 or higher) it is fair to conclude her strength is only average at best, and that carrying V's weight (guessed roughly at 100-130 lbs or so) would put her squarely into the Heavy Load category, drastically reducing her dex bonus to saves.

Additionally, though not in the RAW, every campaign which I have run or played dictated that any feats, class abilities or the like which relied on swift movement, or required no heavier than light armor, were similarly ineffective when carrying any more than a light load.

So it seems likely that V will have to rely on her ability to absorb the damage rather than taking advantage of Haley's rogue class abilities.

Then again, the rule of plot dictates that if V is going to survive, then the damage dice could easily read all 1's. :smallbiggrin:
V is not impaired from speaking, and the only ow!ow!ow! we heard was Elan's. I'm guessing V didn't feel much of the barrier's damage.

[JonestheSpy]

It's been proposed on a couple official books...and frankly? It just makes sense that one can retrain.

Sorry to be diverting the read here, but I gotta say that no, it doesn't make sense at all.

Someone is not going to suddenly forget how to swing a sword and wear heavy armor because they decide to start learning how to cast spells (not to mention suddenly lose more than half their hit points). And what about things like skill points? If a rogue 'retrains' as a sorcerer they're going to forget all those skills they spent years learning?

'Retraining' is a popular word in economic discussions nowadays, but it really means "training people to do new things", not substituting one set of skills for another. You know, kind of like "taking a level in another class". Saying characters can just switch out class levels is ridiculous, imho...

We now return to more relevant discussion. Myself, I'm quite sure that Enor is half-human, half-ogre on one side, and dragon on the other.

[SinsI]

Actually Half-Dragons get a +2 adjustment to Intelligence and a normal Ogre gets a -4 penalty to Intelligence. I do not have the stats in front of me for a Half-Ogre template (Dragon #313), but I am guessing it is a penalty. That being said, Intelligence looks like a dump stat for one of Enor's build. So at best a 10 but probably an 8 or lower if I had to guess.

Of course, this is a comic and not the game, so the Giant is free to make his characters however he feels like it.
Maybe it's like ligers compared to lions and tigers? One grows fast, but not for long; the other grows slowly but all its life; their mix - grows fast and all their life, becoming much bigger than both parents. Only this time it is the other way around - Dragons get their high Int score over a very long time, and Ogres get their limited intelligence in just a few years, so their mix is much dumber than both.

[Snake-Aes]

Sorry to be diverting the read here, but I gotta say that no, it doesn't make sense at all.

Someone is not going to suddenly forget how to swing a sword and wear heavy armor because they decide to start learning how to cast spells (not to mention suddenly lose more than half their hit points). And what about things like skill points? If a rogue 'retrains' as a sorcerer they're going to forget all those skills they spent years learning?

'Retraining' is a popular word in economic discussions nowadays, but it really means "training people to do new things", not substituting one set of skills for another. You know, kind of like "taking a level in another class". Saying characters can just switch out class levels is ridiculous, imho...

We now return to more relevant discussion. Myself, I'm quite sure that Enor is half-human, half-ogre on one side, and dragon on the other.

So you are telling me that if I stop working as a programmer to work as a lawyer and never touch a source code again, I will remain keen in programming even as the years pass by?

Or that if I quit the academy, my body won't lose muscle mass?

It makes sense that neglecting an ability makes you worse at it. The whole "lose a level in A to gain B" is just to keep the game balanced.

[Kish]

So you are telling me that if I stop working as a programmer to work as a lawyer and never touch a source code again, I will remain keen in programming even as the years pass by?
If you take up programming again, you certainly won't be starting at anything like the same level as someone who never touched programming before.

Yes, "lose a level to gain a level" is just to make the game balanced. It has nothing to do with sense, and it's a house rule there's never been any indication is in effect in the OotS universe.

[hamishspence]

Actually Half-Dragons get a +2 adjustment to Intelligence and a normal Ogre gets a -4 penalty to Intelligence. I do not have the stats in front of me for a Half-Ogre template (Dragon #313), but I am guessing it is a penalty. That being said, Intelligence looks like a dump stat for one of Enor's build. So at best a 10 but probably an 8 or lower if I had to guess.

Of course, this is a comic and not the game, so the Giant is free to make his characters however he feels like it.

The half-ogre template is one option- however, there is a half-ogre player race (half ogre/half human) in both Savage Species and Races of Destiny.

So it could be a basic Half-Ogre, with the Half-Dragon template stacked on top of that.

Savage Species, being older, seems slightly more likely as a source.

[Bongos]

The half-ogre template is one option- however, there is a half-ogre player race (half ogre/half human) in both Savage Species and Races of Destiny.

So it could be a basic Half-Ogre, with the Half-Dragon template stacked on top of that.

That's what I was thinking.

[plasma ball]

Maybe it's like ligers compared to lions and tigers? One grows fast, but not for long; the other grows slowly but all its life; their mix - grows fast and all their life, becoming much bigger than both parents. Only this time it is the other way around - Dragons get their high Int score over a very long time, and Ogres get their limited intelligence in just a few years, so their mix is much dumber than both.

Both of these make compleat sence. maby it's a mix of the two. I don't have anything byond the rulebooks.:smallsigh: Mabey I should get more...

[Cealocanth]

Maybe he's just a dumb-brute type. I've seen that stereotype all over the place, Thog for example...

[Mordar]

I'm sure its really fun to overcomplicate anything but yeah, he was just pointing out that he was a Half-dragon, Half-Ogre not a half dragon ogre which doesnt mean anything.

Unless you have studied Warhammer Fantasy...which I have!

[Felecies]

I... have never heard, thought of, or seen a half-dragon half-orge. I would think that he would have normal intelegence, with dragons beaing super smart and orges beaing rather dumb. wouldn't they have canceled each other out to make a normal beaing:smallconfused:

Relitivly speaking, of cource.

Isn't blade barrier green? That's the collor that RC spell was in comic 457. Mabey it depends on the mage...

Actually if you look at the half dragon template in the monster manuel (at least in the book I have) the example used is a half-dragon half-ogre

[Alex Warlorn]

When you have TWO parents with dominant genes, (oger and dragon) you should either add up or split the difference. That would be my call as DM.

[hamishspence]

Actually if you look at the half dragon template in the monster manuel (at least in the book I have) the example used is a half-dragon half-ogre

The 3.5 Monster Manual has, for its sample half-dragon, a half-black dragon, half human fighter (Alignment Often Chaotic Evil).

[balesundaran]

Am I the first to request a tee-shirt bearing the image from the second to last frame, i.e. the chart entitled "Are we getting paid enough?" (pointy vs. yummy)

I think I would even have that as a poster over my desk.

[Kish]

When you have TWO parents with dominant genes, (oger and dragon) you should either add up or split the difference. That would be my call as DM.
Dominant genes? Um...

Genetics doesn't work that way. There are blue eye genes, but there's no "the human gene."

[Bongos]

Maybe Enor's dragon parent was of similar intellectual disposition as our Empress of Blood. That would explain a lot, especially the fixation on "yummies".

[Alex Warlorn]

Dominant genes? Um...

Genetics doesn't work that way. There are blue eye genes, but there's no "the human gene."

Congratulations, you just missed the entire point of what I was trying to say.

I'm saying that since Oger and Dragon normally just get added on top of whatever is already there, that means the genes always show up 'hence' 'dominant.'

[Kish]

Congratulations, you just missed the entire point of what I was trying to say.

I'm saying that since Oger and Dragon normally just get added on top of whatever is already there, that means the genes always show up 'hence' 'dominant.'
Oh. So when you said "dominant genes," you meant something completely different from what geneticists mean.

Under the circumstances, I think I'll take the congratulations and ignore the intended sarcasm. So: Thank you.

[Alex Warlorn]

Oh. So when you said "dominant genes," you meant something completely different from what geneticists mean.

Under the circumstances, I think I'll take the congratulations and ignore the intended sarcasm. So: Thank you.

*smacks forehead* Oh brother.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominance_(genetics)

I wasn't talking about the general misconception that the dominant gene is often the 'better' one, just that if it's thrown into the genetic mix it's more likely to turn up.

[Samuraiko]

Every time Gannji says something, I hear Billy Crystal's voice. Maybe because I just watched Monsters, Inc.

Actually, I hear Gannji and Enor as Westley and Fezzik from Princess Bride. That utterly dry deadpan snark and "so dumb he's smart" (or vice versa).

And I love V's comment about their "historically most-successful" tactic. More!