Best Debuffers [3.5]

[quiet1mi]

For some time I have been wanting to build a character that uses Dun_Möch (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Dun_Möch) during his fights...

The best I could come up with was a hexblade 4, Paladin of Tyranny X... I know that there exist better for what I want...

[Person_Man]

Doomspeak feat from Champions of Ruin. Standard Action, burns a Bardic Music use, 1 enemy must make a Will Save or take a -10 penalty for one round. Partner with a caster, and you can usually take down anything.

Binder also has two debuff auras and numerous Supernatural Save or Lose and Save or Suck effects. It's what they're best at, IMO.

And anybody can get stacking Fear effects. There are dozens of feats, magic items, and PrC.

[Mastikator]

Is there any way to use bluff or intimidate to taunt an enemy? Perhaps in combination with sense motive and read thoughts to come up with really good taunts.
But it seems more like a skill and/or feat based tactic than class-specific (to me).
Maybe a dip in telepath to get read thoughts and then continue as some other type of warrior, using read thoughts ahead of combat to learn the enemy's fears.

[Amphetryon]

Binder 3/Paladin of Tyranny 3/Hexblade (Dark Companion variant) 4/Dread Witch 5/Nightmare Spinner 5 piles on the debuffing about as much as any combination I know of. Enchant weapons and armor accordingly and you can destroy enemy defenses pretty quickly.

There's also Shneeky's Samurai exploit, if you can get it past the DM.

[Person_Man]

Is there any way to use bluff or intimidate to taunt an enemy?

You can Demoralize with Intimidate with core rules. There are dozens of threads on how to optimize it with Imperious Command and Fighter.

[Mastikator]

Yeah but demoralize sucks major league athlete socks.
I mean, standard action to make someone shaken for 1 round? He'll be out of his fear before you get to even take advantage of it. It's by definition a useless skill.

I was thinking inspiring anger to make them stop thinking, not fear.

[Amphetryon]

I mean, standard action to make someone shaken for 1 round? He'll be out of his fear before you get to even take advantage of it. It's by definition a useless skill.This is true in a solo campaign without Leadership; otherwise, you're making the rest of the party have an easy time slaughtering the shaken foe.

[AtwasAwamps]

See, this is only true if you don’t take any effort. One feat – Imperious Command – transforms demoralize into a standard action that COWERS an enemy for one round, then leaves them shaken for one round. That is a solid use for a standard action, as it costs no resources and locks a target down for one turn. This can combo well with a number of scary abilities:

Righteous Wrath (Exalted only, first time you attack something evil while in a range, it can be shaken)
Champion of Gwynharawwyf (Constant shaken aura while raging)
Zhentarim Fighter levels (Intimidate as a move action)
Dread Necro Fear Aura
Dreadful Wrath
Etc. etc.

There is a handbook out there all about optimizing feat with some great advice about demoralize. It’s worth looking into, IMO.

[Person_Man]

Yeah but demoralize sucks major league athlete socks.
I mean, standard action to make someone shaken for 1 round? He'll be out of his fear before you get to even take advantage of it. It's by definition a useless skill.

I disagree.

Fear effects from different sources stack. If you have a weapon enchanted with Roaring or Subjugating, make an attack of opportunity, and then Demoralize your foe, they run away from you (which provokes another AoO).

Imperious Command feat from Drow of the Underdark. When you Demoralize an enemy, they Cower for the first round and are Shaken for the round after.

Zhentarim Fighter add on (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a) lets you Demoralize as a Swift Action.

Bloodsoaked Intimidate: When you kill an enemy, you can make an Intimidation check to Demoralize as a Swift Action. Requires Snatch Trophy. Champions of Ruin pg 17.

There's also the Fearsome armor enhancement that let's you Demoralize as a Move Action if you don't want to go Fighter 11. You can Coup De Grace as a Standard Action with the Death Blow feat (Comp Adventurer).

To male your enemy "stop thinking" like you propose basically takes magic, psionics, or vestiges. (All of which are viable options for a debuff build).

[Greenish]

Can you coup de grâce cowering enemies? :smallconfused:

[AtwasAwamps]

Can you coup de grâce cowering enemies? :smallconfused:

I don't believe so, actually. Cowering does not mean helpless.

[Person_Man]

Can you coup de grâce cowering enemies? :smallconfused:

Whoops - No. I was channeling a different build of mine.

[Ernir]

Can you coup de grâce cowering enemies? :smallconfused:

Nope, but you can Power Attack them for great justice! \o/

[The Shadowmind]

Warlock 6 can grab Curse of Despair, which is Bestow Curse at will, and a -1 to attack even of a failed save. It is a touch spell-like though.

[Boci]

Binder 3/Paladin of Tyranny 3/Hexblade (Dark Companion variant) 4/Dread Witch 5/Nightmare Spinner

Don't you need spells for the last two?

[ScionoftheVoid]

Don't you need spells for the last two?

Hexblade has casting (like a Ranger or Paladin but with Arcane spells). I don't know if it's enough to get in to those classes (I haven't got the book for one but if it advances casting it'll probably be enough for Nightmare Spinner anyway) but it has it.

[Amphetryon]

Hexblade explicitly casts arcane spells. That's sufficient to advance the PrCs with enough chicanery.

[Boci]

Hexblade explicitly casts arcane spells. That's sufficient to advance the PrCs with enough chicanery.

Yeah, caster level 10 for a CR: 20 character, and assuming he has 30 charisma that four 1st and 2nd, plus three 3rd level spells per day. A total of 11.

Edit: Just checked HoH, dread witch requires the knowledge of fear, which is a 4th level for a hexblade, so the build won't work.

[Amphetryon]

Illumian with Earth Spell....

[Boci]

Illumian with Earth Spell....

I don't even think thats enough. Hexblade 4 has 0 1st level spells/day, so they can only cast their bonus spells from charisma. You need 3rd level spells to qualify for nightmare spinner, and a 4th level one to qualify for dreadwitch.

Besides, even if you do manage to qualify, you don't have an impresive build to show for it. With a CL of 10, even mooks SR will be a problem, you can forget about catching level apropriate monsters with SR: Yes spells, even if you roll high.

[Person_Man]

There's also Combat Panache (PHBII). As a Move Action after damaging your enemy, you can make an Intimate check to impose your Cha mod as a penalty on your opponent's attack rolls against you until the end of the encounter. Annoyingly, it's a mind effecting fear effect. But it seems to be the sort of thing you're looking for.

[kabof]

There's a feat in some Dragon Magazine that forces an opponent to pass an Will Save against a Perform check you make. In case of failure, the target starts raging and must attack you. The only problem is that the rage effect granted by this feat does notthing against spellcasting, but I guess any sane DM would houserule something different.

[Mephibosheth]

+1 vote for hexblade with Intimidating Strike (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Intimidating_Strike) (PHB2), Imperious Command (DotU) and the Never Outnumbered skill trick (CS). It's probably not the strongest combo out there, but it can be quite effective without a huge investment and it works with a number of different builds. I'm playing one right now in a pbp game and having a lot of fun. As an added bonus, it gives you something to do with standard action attacks, meaning that moving and attacking is slightly less suboptimal than normal, which I enjoy.

If you do go the hexblade route and your DM is open to some homebrew content, there's a bunch of stuff here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146389) for hexblades that enhance their debuffing skills.[/shamelessselfpromotion]

Mephibosheth

[gorfnab]

The Fear Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3809.0) covers a nice list of fear based debuffs.

[EdroGrimshell]

Dreamscarred Press has a class called the morphean, a psionic rogue that specializes in causing fear and debuffing.