PDA

View Full Version : [3.5] Favored Soul tips, tricks and general discussion



Thurbane
2010-05-10, 10:41 PM
Hey all,

Wondering if there is a guidebook for Favored Souls? I've seen several "best Sorcerer spells by level" threads...is there an equivalent for the FS?

We all know that the Cleric and Druid (and Archivist) are the big boys on the divine block, and that by comparison, the FS is quite weak. I've seen suggested fixes and houserules, but what are good tips and tricks for making the most of the FS as written?

I think the FS becomes more palatable when compared to the Sorcerer, rather than comparing it to the Cleric. When compared to a Sorcerer, it has more spells known, 3 good saves, better HD, able to cast in armor, and a handful of (rather poor) actual class features. The main benefits of a Sorcerer compared to a FS are better spells (arcane spells are generally better of an equivalent level), SAD (one casting stat) and the ability to gain a familiar (or swap it out for an ACF).

holywhippet
2010-05-10, 11:01 PM
The archivist is really good, on paper. It's really up to your DM and the campaign to determine how good it turns out in reality. Being able to scribe lots of divine spells doesn't help if you can't get hold of those divine spells.

For the favoured soul you really need to decide what you want to focus on doing and pick spells accordingly. Healing spells are pretty much a requirement - other than that consider what spells will help in the most number of situations.

gbprime
2010-05-10, 11:22 PM
The main weakness with favored soul is that it lacks the perks of domain powers, turn attempts, and spontaneous healing. Add to this the limited spell selection, which gets even more limited if you're doubling as a healer.

Comparing it to cleric, you're painting yourself into a corner. Comparing it to sorcerer... well I'm not sure you can, really. I guess you have the mother of all gish builds if you do, but that goes without saying. Divine casters almost universally get weapons and armor and better BAB. Some designer must think the difference in spell lists makes up for it, but that was before they wrote so many books...

holywhippet
2010-05-10, 11:27 PM
The main weakness with favored soul is that it lacks the perks of domain powers, turn attempts, and spontaneous healing.

You can't convert spells into healing spells, but provided you include healing spells amongst the ones you know you can cast at will. That's the main benefit of spontaneous casting classes like the favoured soul, you don't know as many spells but you can cast the ones you do have more times per day.

gbprime
2010-05-10, 11:38 PM
You can't convert spells into healing spells, but provided you include healing spells amongst the ones you know you can cast at will. That's the main benefit of spontaneous casting classes like the favoured soul, you don't know as many spells but you can cast the ones you do have more times per day.

Right. That's why it's a downside. Most clerics never have to spend spell slots on cure spells. Even druids can spend a feat to get around this. But a spontaneous caster has to commit precious spells-known to it, and that dilutes whatever role you're going to play with it.

Thurbane
2010-05-11, 02:34 AM
OK, I think we're all aware that the Cleric is a lot more powerful and versatile than the FS, but I was hoping we could discuss ways to maximize the Favored Soul's potential...

Pluto
2010-05-11, 02:52 AM
The class doesn't really focus itself - it has room to be something of an offensive caster or a melee character. It just can't be both, due to stat requirements and limited spells known.

The safest bet for any favored soul is probably going to be party buffing. Things like Mass Conviction, Mass Shield of Faith, Righteous Wrath of the Faithful, Recitation, Resurgence -- spells that are always beneficial for the party and that don't require high secondary stats to use effectively.

Honestly, the best bet for the Favored Soul is probably just to pick all the buff spells from the Cleric Handbook and use them; the only meaningful distinction between the Favored Soul and the Cleric is that the Favored Soul has fewer useful class abilities (no domains, no turning; just numeric effects that can be replicated by spells--and eventually wings) and weaker casting.

The one exception is that Exemplars of Evil ACF that gives a Favored Soul claw and bite attacks in exchange for Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization. If you're into stacking natural attacks (maybe including Totemist or Warshaper dips), this might contribute to some interesting builds.

edit:
Also, Weapon Specialization makes Ranged Weapon Mastery an option. So if you really work with a Favored Soul, you might be able to make a decent thrower out of it. (Tripling range increments is great, if that's what you do; weapon and damage bonuses don't hurt either.)

JeminiZero
2010-05-11, 03:15 AM
OK, I think we're all aware that the Cleric is a lot more powerful and versatile than the FS, but I was hoping we could discuss ways to maximize the Favored Soul's potential...

Take the Versatile Spellcaster feat. It is not limited to Arcane Casters.

Try to have something to cast at every spell level. If you have Versatile Spellcaster, it reduces this demand a little, in that if you have something useful at least every other level, you can power the useful stuff with lower level slots.

Remember Metamagics. For example, most FS would take extend and maybe persist spell as buff-bots. Remember that you can also apply this feat to the vigor series. So having Lesser Vigor and Extend Spell lets you cast extended lesser vigor with your level 2 slots, so you can consider dumping CMW for something else.

Combine Metamagics and Versatile Spellcaster: As soon as you have level 6 spells (at FS 12), you can burn 2 slots to power a persisted level 1 spell (Bless, Divine Favor etc). See if you can convince your DM that persisted divine power can be cast through a level 10 spell slot obtained by sacrificing 2 level 9 slots. But all this is still not as good as DMM cheese.

Reserve Feats: As with a cleric, taking Touch of Healing can save a lot of gold on wands of lesser vigor/CLW. Summon Elemental is an excellent trapspringer, and has all sorts of other abuses if you use stuff like vampiric blades or Crusader Martial Spirit for healing.

Thurbane
2010-05-11, 03:30 AM
Nice suggestions guys, keep 'em coming! Maybe I can take the suggestions here and try to make some sort of guidebook?

Anyway, a couple of things off the top of my head:


Apprentice (Spellcaster) feat (DMG II) will add UMD to your list of class skills...not bad for a CHA based character.
Knowledge Devotion: useful for any melee type (even though you only have one Knowledge skill)...but more importantly, you can use it to get Knowledge (Religion) onto your skill list. This opens the door for a lot of divine PrCs.
Speaking of Knowledge (Religion) this article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20070227x) offers Knowledge Specialty (Ex) as an option to swap out Knowledge (Arcana) to get it, although this will obviously require DM approval.
If you steer clear of spells that allow a save, you can dump WIS, and just concentrate on CHA (as well as your physical stats). This generally means buffs, but also includes Summons and spells like Searing Light or Spiritual Weapon if you want to deal damage.

Amphetryon
2010-05-11, 05:30 AM
Stolen er, borrowed from Doc Roc's War Weaver handbook on WotC:

The Joker
"Let me show you how I got these spells..."

This build is pretty cheesy, and is the work of a collaborative effort between Malkavon and myself. We use Magical Training to sneakily access Precocious Apprentice. This lets us grab an arcane spell to get us into Exalted Arcanist via Sanctum Spell tricks, which gives us a pair of arcane spells permanently added to our list. At this point we retrain Precocious Apprentice out for Combat Casting and proceed to climb up through War Weaver and Spellguard of Silverymoon, advancing our Favored Soul spellcasting because we are now an arcane spellcaster thanks to Exalted Arcanist.

The build hinges on the fact that Favored Soul has an ACF that allows them to add temp. HP to any spell they cast. This lets all of their buffs be turned into touch spells via Spellguard of Silverymoon 4, and from there we spread them via War Weaver to all of our allies at once. The build squeaks in at 18th level Favored Soul spellcasting, getting 9th level spells and is able to share 6th level spells through the tapestry thanks to Sanctum Spell.

Human Favored Soul 4/Church Inquisitor 1/Exalted Arcanist 1/War Weaver 5
Spellguard of Silverymoon 4/Sacred Exorcist 1/Incantatrix 4

1) Sanctum Spell, Magical Training, Precocious Apprentice (retrained to Combat Casting after 6th), Consecrate Spell
3) Purify Spell
6) Enlarge Spell
9) Extend Spell
12) Persistent Spell
15) Divine Metamagic (Persistent Spell)
17) Repeat Spell
18) Practiced Spellcaster (Favored Soul)
20) Bonus Metamagic Feat



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~-~z:s~-~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Algernon Of The White Lillies
"Everything slips away..."

Much like the joker except that it uses a dragon's blood pool to count himself as an arcane caster. Has to come back every twelve months for another drink or his powers fade. Uses favored soul ACF to add a buff to his spells that adds temporary HP. We can now cast any personal spell on an ally with a touch. Okay, fair enough, so now allies are legal targets. That's terribly important. Most GMs will now let you cast into the tapestry, though they should not. Share spell with your familiar, however, and it becomes a ranged touch, split ray it, and target the tapestry with it to store it as a quiescent weaving. It now satisfies all the requirements for using the tapestry.

Human Favored Soul 4/War Weaver 5/Spellguard of Silverymoon 4/XXXXXXX 6

1) Sanctum Spell, split ray, improved initiative, enlarge spell
3) extend spell
6) Obtain familiar, since we are an arcane caster
9) Persistent Spell
12) DMM: PersistTL;DR - Favored Soul 4/War Weaver 5/Spellguard of Silverymoon is a very solid base.

Doc Roc
2010-05-11, 08:35 AM
OK, I think we're all aware that the Cleric is a lot more powerful and versatile than the FS, but I was hoping we could discuss ways to maximize the Favored Soul's potential...

Depends, actually......
Amph has posted one of my gamebreakers, which interestingly is impossible with a prepared divine caster.

Thanks for dragon magic, Favoreds can qualify for Initiate feats, including the almost omnipotent Initiate of Mystra. Better, Algernon qualifies easily for any of the following:
Spelldancer (hard, ton of feat tax)
Sacred Exorcist (Easy)
Dweomerkeeper (Contemplative dip needed)
Legacy Champion


Human Favored Soul 4/War Weaver 5/Sacred Exorcist 1/Spellguard of Silverymoon 4/Contemplative 1/Dweomerkeeper 4

1) Sanctum Spell, split ray, improved initiative, enlarge spell
3) extend spell
6) Obtain familiar, since we are an arcane caster
9) Initiate Of Mystra
12) bonus MM: Persistent Spell
12) DMM: Persist
14) Bonus MM: Ocular Spell
15) _________
18) _________


Yes. It is possible to combine the Cheater of Mystra with a variant of the Twice Betrayer of Shaar on top of the ultimate war weaver. Quake in fear, playground, before our terrible gnosis. And the key in that lock is Favored Soul. I diminish and go into the west.

Optimystik
2010-05-11, 08:39 AM
How much help does Favored Soul really need? It isn't bad, just bad compared to a Cleric. It's still Tier 2 - the Cleric list is That Good.™

RagnaroksChosen
2010-05-11, 08:50 AM
gonna have to agree with pluto.
Though as for acf's im a big fan of the one from phb2 or c champ where you can give temp HP when ever you cast a spell on some one. Its a great buffer I found in practice.

As well. Why can't you get Spontanious Healer as a FS. Mabye my gms have made an exception but i can't see any reason why RAW it would be. It just says you need to have it on your list?

Fastmover
2010-05-11, 09:28 AM
What would be a good way of making the FS a good Melee fighter?

Isn't there a feat in I think the PHII that can make your touch spells able to be channeled into a weapon? Could it be possible to make the FS a sort of make-shift Duskblade?

Doc Roc
2010-05-11, 09:35 AM
Step one:
1 dip sacred exorcist.
Step two:
Persist divine power.
Step three:
Never look back.

Greenish
2010-05-11, 09:37 AM
Isn't there a feat in I think the PHII that can make your touch spells able to be channeled into a weapon? Could it be possible to make the FS a sort of make-shift Duskblade?Smiting Spell (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Smiting_Spell). As you can see, it's pretty sad.

Your best bet is to buff yourself up and then go to melee.

Amphetryon
2010-05-11, 09:50 AM
Use the Dragonsblood Pool trick to count as an Arcane caster, then Arcane Strike?

Ernir
2010-05-11, 06:14 PM
My general FS idea...

1. Take the PHB2 ACF. Temp HP is just as good as "real" HP, if you make sure the guy you are buffing is the guy who is losing HP.
2. Dump your Wis and avoid picking spells that offer saves. Let the Wizard handle the SoD/SoL spells. You are not a Cleric, you need to specialize, and specializing in things that offer saves are, IMHO, a poor choice for a FS.
3. Take as few healing spells as your party can possibly let you get away with. You have better bloody things to do.
4. Find something else for your charisma to do. Like, getting it as a bonus on your damage rolls.
5. Pick versatile spells. (MIRACLE, I'm looking at you.)

Ashram
2010-05-11, 06:23 PM
My couple of contributions?

If you're the DM, do what Pathfinder did and since FS is a spontaneous casting class, make its one and only casting stat Charisma; none of this dual casting stat nonsense. It makes your stats easier to allot when you don't have to worry about two of them. If you aren't the DM, see if you're DM will allow it.

Also, if you plan on using metamagic, take Rapid Metamagic. Lets spontaneous casters use metamagic normally, instead of taking a full-round.

Thrawn183
2010-05-11, 07:20 PM
The real key is to decide early on whether or not you are going to be forcing saves. You can make a great character that concentrates on summoning, healing, buffing and utility that isn't hampered by needing 2 casting stats. Heck, if you can find some no-save attack spells, you can even add them in. Then again, if you're using spells where you don't even care if the enemy makes its save, more power to yah.

Thurbane
2010-05-14, 09:35 PM
...so, anyone got suggestion for best Cleric spells by level? Maybe spells that don't have a save DC, if you want to dump WIS?

The Cat Goddess
2010-05-14, 09:41 PM
...so, anyone got suggestion for best Cleric spells by level? Maybe spells that don't have a save DC, if you want to dump WIS?

Buff spells.

Yorrin
2010-05-14, 09:55 PM
Some Cleric spells I like:
Summon Monster and the Cure/Inflict Spells exist at all levels.

lvl1: Detect Evil/Good/Law/Chaos, Lesser Shivering Touch

lvl2: Shatter, Spiritual Weapon

lvl3: Blindness/Deafness, Protection From Energy, Shivering Touch, Bestow Curse

lvl4: Divine Power

lvl5: Plane Shift, Frostbite, Righteous Wrath of the Faithful, Righteous Might

lvl6: Call Faithful Servants, Eyes of the Oracle, Mummify, Harm, Heal, Sarcophagus of Stone

lvl7: Greater Plane Shift, Withering Palm, Greater Bestow Curse, Blood to Water, Plague

lvl8: Greater Spell Immunity

lvl9: Mass Heal, Mass Harm, End to Strife, Miracle, Gate


Not intended to be a comprehensive list, just some of the spells I favor.

Thurbane
2010-05-14, 10:17 PM
Nice list, Yorrin. :smallwink:

...also, I was thinking, since action economy is everything, here's a list of swift or immediate spells for the Favored Soul (please let me know if I've missed any):

1
Blade of Blood
Blood Wind
Grave Strike
Incite
Reaving Aura

2
Avoid Planar Effects
Close Wounds
Light of Faith
Master's Touch
Quick March
Stabilize
Stay the Hand
Stretch Weapon

3
Alter Fortune
Divine Retaliation
Energy Aegis
Grace
Hesitate
Knight's Move
Light of Wisdom

4
Assay Spell Resistance
Delay Death
Light of Purity
Mark of the Enlightened Soul
Mystic Aegis
Stifle Spell
Touch of the Blackened Soul

5
Etherealness, Swift
Meteoric Strike

6
Light of Courage

Curmudgeon
2010-05-15, 02:43 AM
The Favored Soul differs from the Cleric in having better saves, spontaneous spellcasting, and a ladder of weak class abilities instead of domains and undead turning. Thus making a decent Favored Soul consists of good spell selection (already covered by other posters), and making best use of their class abilities. There aren't too many alternative class features (ACFs) for the FS. Of those few, the best option is Drow Favored Soul (Drow of the Underdark), which doesn't actually require being a Drow: trade energy resistance for tremorsense.

While you can trade away the weapon-related abilities, I think it's better to take advantage of them with the right deity selection. Kossuth (a FR fire god) has the spiked chain as his favored weapon. A FS of Kossuth gets

Exotic Weapon Proficiency (spiked chain)
Weapon Focus (spiked chain)
Weapon Specialization (spiked chain)
for "free".

Escheton
2010-05-15, 03:32 AM
initiate feats allow you to add neat spells to your cleric list.
if they don;t work raw for a favored soul, just mod the suckers

panacea is a great alround fix-it spell that I used a lot as a FS.
there are some more neat spells in miniatures besides that one I think

PhoenixRivers
2010-05-15, 03:38 AM
Favored souls have the disadvantage of having 2 caster stats. Bonus spells and max spell level castable go off charisma, and DC's go off wisdom.

This means that you can have all the benefits of a charisma caster and dump wisdom, if you are willing to let your DC's be abysmally bad.

If you go this route, choose spells that don't allow saves.

Walls, buffs, summons, that sort of thing. Heals are possible, but overrated; get a wand or three.

Escheton
2010-05-15, 04:05 AM
Stuff

yeah...read the other posts
covered already

Doc Roc
2010-05-15, 07:41 AM
Dragon Magic makes initiate feats, or indeed, anything that requires a cleric level, work for FSes.