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View Full Version : SOLVED!!!-No Asf In Any Armor Two Feats-SOLVED!!!



theos911
2010-05-11, 05:46 PM
Any ideas? All books are good, third party if available online. Also what is that feat that allows you to cast with no failure in armor one category heavier than you are already able to cast freely in?

Thanks,
Theos, The Bard

IonDragon
2010-05-11, 05:47 PM
Requires BAB +1, don't remember what book it's from, or what it's called. (I seem to have this problem a lot)

Alternatively, you could take one of the armored caster classes:
Warmage
Beguiler (I think)
Dread Necromancer

There are more.

Eldonauran
2010-05-11, 05:51 PM
Its called Battle Caster. Look for it in PHB2 (or Complete Arcane if I'm off a book)

Mando Knight
2010-05-11, 05:57 PM
Its called Battle Caster. Look for it in PHB2 (or Complete Arcane if I'm off a book)
It's in Comp.Arc. and as far as I can see, it requires you to be a Warlock or Bard to use properly.

The Glyphstone
2010-05-11, 05:57 PM
Battle Caster does not allow ignoring ASF by itself. It has a prerequisite of being able to ignore ASF in armor, and then allows you to do so in one grade of armor heavier than normal.

EDIT: Semi-ninjaed. Oddly, Warlocks can't make good use of it, because they have SLAs. Bards, Assassins, Warmages, Duskblades, Dread Necros, and few others can.

theos911
2010-05-11, 06:02 PM
Alternatively, you could take one of the armored caster classes:
Warmage
Beguiler (I think)
Dread Necromancer

There are more.
*While not armored casting War Wiz of Cormyr is great for gishes(Magic of Faerun)
Armored Casting:
Abjurant Champ
Rune something-or-other smith I think (maybe runecaster?)
Spellsword for one, of which I use a custom 9/10 progression with slower spell failure reduction(eventually leading to all same abilities as normal) Ok so battle caster is the boost, but I recall a feat that gave free casting in light armor...
Anyone remember
(I have every book, so the chances of me remembering what book are -5% to 0%)

The Cat Goddess
2010-05-11, 06:05 PM
Battle Sorcerer Variant in Unearthed Arcana.

Replace Bluff with Intimidate.

Gain d8 hps, average BAB progression, Proficiency with one light or one-handed martial weapon, Light Armor Proficiency, no spell failure in light armor.

A battle sorcerer has fewer daily spell slots than a standard sorcerer. Subtract one spell per day from each spell level on Table 3–16: The Sorcerer, page 52 of the Player’s Handbook (to a minimum of zero spells per day).

A battle sorcerer knows fewer spells per spell level than a standard sorcerer. Subtract one spell known from each spell level on Table 3–17: Sorcerer Spells Known, page 54 of the Player’s Handbook (to a minimum of one spell per spell level).

IonDragon
2010-05-11, 06:06 PM
We had a (I think homebrew) that's flitting about the edges of my memory. It reduced ASF by 10%, could be taken multiple times.

There is also this (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/arcane-armor-training-combat---final) from Pathfinder, which you may find interesting.

theos911
2010-05-11, 06:08 PM
Battle Sorcerer Variant in Unearthed Arcana..

I was avoiding this if possible, max of 5(not including bonus) spells per lvl is a "bit" limiting. I recall a feat that allows for light armor casting, but thanks anyway.

EDIT-To cast 9th. lvl you'd have a cha of 19 AT LEAST assuming 20th. lvl with only cha boosts thats 5 so 24. At that you would +1 bonus spells up to lvl 7 and +2 bonus spells up to lvl 3. This cancels the -1 up to 7th. So really your losing an 8th. and 9th. lvl spell per day for ALL those benefits. All of a sudden it seems workable.

Ninja'd by Ion


We had a (I think homebrew) that's flitting about the edges of my memory. It reduced ASF by 10%, could be taken multiple times.

There is also this (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/arcane-armor-training-combat---final) from Pathfinder, which you may find interesting.
Two things:
I don't know what pathfinder is,
That would "effectively" work, but without fenagling wouldn't allow battle caster since its % and not armor groups.

Gnaeus
2010-05-11, 06:22 PM
The better way to do it is to get some 0 ACF armor, like Twilight Mithril Chain Shirt.

Irreverent Fool
2010-05-11, 06:23 PM
There's "Armored Mage" in AEG's "Feats" book. It requires the character to be a dwarf and have a metamagic feat. The benefit is reduction in ASF, though it bottoms out at 5%.

It's not that great.

The Battle Sorcerer from Unearthed Arcana gains the ability to ignore light armor ASF at the cost of learning one less spell per spell level and one less spell per day of each level. That's pretty painful for a sorcerer if you ask me.

Remember that ASF doesn't apply to spells without somatic components. Given that it took very little to publish 3rd-party material, I don't really put a lot of faith in it. Some of the stuff I've seen looks as though it was published for someone's personal and specific game in mind solely so they could point at it and say, "Look! It's published!". I would suggest homebrewing something with the prerequisites of a metamagic feat (possibly Still Spell) and of course light armor proficiency.

obnoxious
sig

Eldonauran
2010-05-11, 06:27 PM
If you can already cast in light armor and want to get better armor: Battle Caster is you feat of choice.

If you are an arcane caster and want to get casting in light armor, I recommend taking the Prestige Bard prestige class in the Unearthed Arcana. It gives you casting in light armor, for ANY arcane spell.

Ashram
2010-05-11, 06:28 PM
I was avoiding this if possible, max of 5(not including bonus) spells per lvl is a "bit" limiting. I recall a feat that allows for light armor casting, but thanks anyway.

EDIT-To cast 9th. lvl you'd have a cha of 19 AT LEAST assuming 20th. lvl with only cha boosts thats 5 so 24. At that you would +1 bonus spells up to lvl 7 and +2 bonus spells up to lvl 3. This cancels the -1 up to 7th. So really your losing an 8th. and 9th. lvl spell per day for ALL those benefits. All of a sudden it seems workable.

Ninja'd by Ion


Two things:
I don't know what pathfinder is,
That would "effectively" work, but without fenagling wouldn't allow battle caster since its % and not armor groups.

Pathfinder is essentially 3.75 made by another company.

To my knowledge, there is no feat that allows you to cast in light armor with no ASF. That's far too strong a feat. There is, as people have mentioned, Battle Caster, which allows you to increase the type of armor you can wear and cast in by one step. You still have to have the proficiency for it, though.

Honestly, I would go with what other people are saying and just work on getting your spell failure rate down as low as you can go. Mythril armor with the Twilight property (Magic Item Compendium) combined with Pathfinder's Arcane Armor Training feats makes it so that you can easily get down to 0-5% ASF.

IonDragon
2010-05-11, 06:31 PM
Pathfinder is a variant rule system for 3.x

It's basically the same thing, but different. Mithral (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialMaterials.htm#mithral) decreases ASF by an additional 10%, so you could have up to a Chain Shirt with 0 ASF or even Breastplate with only ASF 5%.

However, it would be even easier to just cast Greater Mage Armor (SC) for +6 AC, no feat cost, no materials cost.

EDIT: Ninja'd :smalltongue:

theos911
2010-05-11, 06:39 PM
Battle Sorcerer Variant in Unearthed Arcana..

I was avoiding this if possible, max of 5(not including bonus) spells per lvl is a "bit" limiting. I recall a feat that allows for light armor casting, but thanks anyway.

EDIT-To cast 9th. lvl you'd have a cha of 19 AT LEAST assuming 20th. lvl with only cha boosts thats 5 so 24. At that you would +1 bonus spells up to lvl 7 and +2 bonus spells up to lvl 3. This cancels the -1 up to 7th. So really your losing an 8th. and 9th. lvl spell per day for ALL those benefits. All of a sudden it seems workable..

We have already established battle sorcerer. Duskblade+battle Caster is looking nice.


If you are an arcane caster and want to get casting in light armor, I recommend taking the Prestige Bard prestige class in the Unearthed Arcana. It gives you casting in light armor, for ANY arcane spell.
That is also looking like a very viable option, though I oppose dipping with a passion.


...Mythril armor with the Twilight property (Magic Item Compendium)....

Thank you!!! Been looking everywhere for that property.


Mithral (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialMaterials.htm#mithral) Ok I looked everywhere BUT the SRD, boy I'm intelligent...

lol ninja'd x3

Pluto
2010-05-11, 06:51 PM
The Master Spellthief feat is probably what you're looking for. It's the only feat I know that gives light-armored casting. You'd have to spend a level in Spellthief, though.

Or just ask your DM if you can use a feat for it. Y'know, because you already know exactly what you want the feat to do and because it wouldn't be a particularly good feat anyway.


Or Still Spell.

If you're making a sorcerer gish, Battle Sorcerer is much better than advertised (though, honestly, the Adept is better than the Battle Sorcerer is advertised). Just compare BS progression to the ever-popular generic Sorcadin: until around level 15, BS casting is strictly superior and it doesn't require awkward 1-level Spellsword dips and it always has a higher-level spell available. If you aren't making a sorcerer gish, disregard the last paragraph.

Irreverent Fool
2010-05-11, 06:55 PM
There's also caster armor, a mundane quality that can be added to any masterwork armor that further reduces ASF by 5%. It's in Dragon 358.

obnoxious
sig

Foryn Gilnith
2010-05-11, 06:59 PM
For the sake of Completeness, Githyanki Battlecaster from MM4 allows light armor spell failure to be ignored.

theos911
2010-05-11, 07:10 PM
The Master Spellthief feat is probably what you're looking for. It's the only feat I know that gives light-armored casting. You'd have to spend a level in Spellthief, though.

Or just ask your DM if you can use a feat for it. Y'know, because you already know exactly what you want the feat to do and because it wouldn't be a particularly good feat anyway.

By the logical crunch no spellthief levels are needed here, just 2nd. level arcane spell casting. This one works sorta by a loophole, but it's a legit loophole. It does grant casting in light armor, and it does have some useful stuff for spellthieves. Only issues would be if DM fluff'd that you need spelltheif levels. Combine this with battle caster and mithril armor and your set. Two feats and bigger armor price tag for free casting.

YAY Score 1 for US!

EDIT- Breakdown
No feats-item only Mithril Twilight Caster Full Plate
Cost +1(for twilight) Full Plate is 2,500gp + 9,000 to make of mithril +1,000(cost to make a heavy caster armor)
This leaves us with a suit costing 12,500gp (Yes I actually looked in Dragon 358 for caster stats-I'm that much of a geek)
Now for our Master Spellthief Battle Caster
His armor is just mithril Full Plate costing 10,500gp. It's not substantially cheaper, but keep in mind the pc can grab and don any other armor he wants and receive the same bonus except for nonmithril heavy armors. Our feat-less friend must enchant any other armor he wants to wear.

My friends I think we have solved the Gish problem for all time!

Not relevant since feats found, but deserves a comment anyway.

Or Still Spell.

If you're making a sorcerer gish, Battle Sorcerer is much better than advertised (though, honestly, the Adept is better than the Battle Sorcerer is advertised). Just compare BS progression to the ever-popular generic Sorcadin: until around level 15, BS casting is strictly superior and it doesn't require awkward 1-level Spellsword dips and it always has a higher-level spell available. If you aren't making a sorcerer gish, disregard the last paragraph.

You could also go with still spell, and just use it all the time. Spelldancer would work well here. Moving, dancing and jumping to avoid having to move... Makes sense to me!:smallconfused::smallwink::smallconfused:

lol ninja'd x2

Eldonauran
2010-05-11, 07:11 PM
That is also looking like a very viable option, though I oppose dipping with a passion.

Oh, yes. I completely agree with you about dipping. Still, you could take two levels without losing anything more than 1 caster level, or if you can stomach it, 6 levels will net you 4 casting levels.

All-in-all, not bad.

Ashram
2010-05-11, 07:14 PM
For completeness, assassin casts as a bard, so with no spell failure in light armor.

theos911
2010-05-11, 07:49 PM
For completeness, assassin casts as a bard, so with no spell failure in light armor.
That works well with battle caster as well, though the armor checks would mess with most assasinish stuff. I'm trying to keep it alignment restriction free, and built mainly from feats rather than classes.

EDIT-Changing title to more fitting words

Pechvarry
2010-05-11, 10:30 PM
How are you getting Master Spellthief without Steal Spell class feature?

Also, just because I didn't see it mentioned, Knight Phantom (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050706a&page=4) costs 1 CL and gets you the ability to cast in light armor.

Benejeseret
2010-05-11, 11:59 PM
RuneSmith - RoS. Dwarf only but essentially a one level dip gives a FREE still spell feature to all arcane spells which means no somatic component so no armour issues at all. It also fully advances caster levels and that gem is available at the 1st level dip.

Combine with Geometer and you get free silent/still spells which also waves actually obtaining spell components (if you DM is picky....which s/he should be) for 25g per spell additional cost.

They also add together a great feel for a dwarven Rune-based arcanist.

All you need is the feats/dip to get heavy armour proficiency

My current focus is to build a Duskblade who dips into these and grabs heavy with a feat

ghost_warlock
2010-05-12, 12:01 AM
Arcane Thesis + Still Spell. Only works for one spell, but if you're a killer gnome that's all you need anyway.

Benejeseret
2010-05-12, 12:11 AM
What about a Dwarven Runesmith in Mountain Plate carrying a Tower shield?

One of the nice things about a Runesmith/geometer with spellglyphs is that even when paralyzed/etc you spells will still work

Leon
2010-05-12, 12:41 AM
Since I'm lazy, but Surreal (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871954/Lists_of_Stuff) is not

Arcane Spell Failure (ASF) reduction - or casting in armor
Bard, light armor
Fighter, Armored Mage alternative class feature, Complete Mage, light armor
Duskblade 1, 4, 7/20, Player's Handbook 2, casting in light armor, medium armor, then heavy shields respectively
Bladesinger 6, ecl 11, Complete Warrior, cast in light armor
Hexblade, Complete Warrior, casting in light armor
Spellsword 1, 3, 5, 7, 9/10, ecl 6, Complete Warrior, 10/15/20/25/30%
Rage Mage 2, ecl 7, Complete Warrior, -10% in light or medium armor
Spellthief, Complete Adventurer, casting in light armor
Fochlucan Lyrist 1, ecl 11, Complete Adventure, cast in light armor
Warmage 1, 8/20, Complete Arcane, casting in light then medium armor
Suel Arcanamach 1, 4, 7, 10/10, ecl 7, Complete Arcane, 5% each time
Battlecaster, feat, Complete Arcane, allows casting in armor one category heavier (unclear whether you gain proficiency)
Geomancer 1, ecl ?, Complete Divine, see text

Dragon Devotee 3, ecl 8, Races of the Dragon, ignore ASF for 0-level and 1st-level spells
Arcane Heirophant 1, ecl 6, Races of the Wild, casting in non-metallic light or medium armor
Runesmith 1, ecl 6, Races of Stone, cast in any armor, see text
Knight of the Weave 2, ecl 7, Champions of Valor, cast in light armor, in medium at level 8
Pale Master 4, 8/10, ecl 9, Libris Mortis, -10% each for undead armor
Knight Phantom 1, ecl 6, Eberron: Five Nations, casting in light armor
Corrupt Avenger 1, ecl 7, Heroes of Horror, light armor
Silver Key 1, ecl 5, Eberron: Dragonmarked, light armor, abjuration only
Githyanky Battlecaster, feat, Monster Manual 4, light armor
Fatemaker 1, ecl 6, Planar Handbook, light
Ebonmar Infiltrator 1, ecl 6, Cityscape, cast in light armor, see text
Urban Savant 1, ecl 6, Cityscape, cast in light armor, see text
Knight of the Weave 2, ecl 7, FR: Champions of Valor, cast in light for all classes, medium at level 8

Twilight, armor enhancement, Book of Exalted Deeds, -10%
Thistledown, armor add-on, Races of the Wild, -5%
Leafweave, armor add-on, Races of the Wild, -5%
Feycraft, armor template, DMG2, -5%
Githcraft, armor template, DMG2, -5%
Hellforged, armor template, DMG2, +5%
Blue Ice, component, Frostburn, cast [Cold] spells without ASF


From my Related thread

theos911
2010-05-12, 05:11 AM
*Lip Quiver
*Hope Crushed*
Somehow I missed steal spell as a pereq DANGIT!

Kight Phantom Costs a cl, but would work well

@Benejeseret Runecaster (FR 51) also has that distinct dwarven runey feel as well. Divine Only for cl progression.

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-05-12, 03:12 PM
No feats-item only Mithral Twilight Caster Full Plate

Not quite...

Mithral is -10%, and Twilight is -10% and Caster is -5%. That's -25% off a 35% ASF for a 10% ASF.

A one-level dip in SpellSword will net you that last 10% off...

As a combo of feat and class ability, Mithral also reduces the armor class size. Thus, Mithral Full Plate counts as Medium. Thus, if you already have no ASF in Light, picking up ONE feat will do the trick.

Other gear-related options:

Githcraft/Faycraft has -5% ASF, but are mutually exclusive
Thistledown Padding gives -5% ASF but gives a -1 penalty on skill checks.

theos911
2010-05-12, 03:15 PM
ok you missed the point

a.this is supposed to for those who do not already have light armor free casting such as bard or BS (but that's fine honest mistake)

b.I'm aware it had a 10% still, again hat was the point-to show with all that you still have a 10%, but thistledown could get that to 5%

true_shinken
2010-05-12, 03:19 PM
To my knowledge, there is no feat that allows you to cast in light armor with no ASF.
Githyanki Battlecaster, MMIV, does exactly that. Requires you to be a githyanki, though.

theos911
2010-05-12, 03:45 PM
ok very good
Let me add:
Trying to avoid serious alignment restrictions and weird race requirements
still love to hear them though

Theodoxus
2010-05-12, 04:26 PM
Off topic somewhat, but curious.

Why if relatively similar, at least mechanically, is Psion not considered broken to be able to manifest in plate mail, but a wizard is?

And I'm not really talking about Logic Ninja's Batman wizard of perpetual doom, but more WotC interpretation that the only wizard is a blasting wizard - which is pretty much the Psion's best role.

I toss out ASF in any game I run - arcane casters still need to spend feats to wear armor (or dip into a class that gives it) but ASF is arbitrarily restrictive to be restrictive, and then WotC comes out with a myriad ways to bypass it.

Lot of work for a silly mechanic. IMO, of course. :)

Pluto
2010-05-12, 04:33 PM
Why if relatively similar, at least mechanically, is Psion not considered broken to be able to manifest in plate mail, but a wizard is?
I don't think wotc actually expected characters to use armor if they weren't proficient with it.

That's what the example characters and the Psions with Class (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20060725a) article make me think, anyway.

The Glyphstone
2010-05-12, 04:36 PM
Off topic somewhat, but curious.

Why if relatively similar, at least mechanically, is Psion not considered broken to be able to manifest in plate mail, but a wizard is?

And I'm not really talking about Logic Ninja's Batman wizard of perpetual doom, but more WotC interpretation that the only wizard is a blasting wizard - which is pretty much the Psion's best role.

I toss out ASF in any game I run - arcane casters still need to spend feats to wear armor (or dip into a class that gives it) but ASF is arbitrarily restrictive to be restrictive, and then WotC comes out with a myriad ways to bypass it.

Lot of work for a silly mechanic. IMO, of course. :)

Because being better at a bad role than someone else doesn't make you broken, it just makes you better at being bad (or worse at being bad, depending on how you read it). Psions are better blasters, but even blasting wizards still have the option to do stuff other than blast. Plus, psions still have to deal with the ACP on that plate-mail - some of their best blasting powers are ranged touches, where -8 on a low-BAB character hurts.

tyckspoon
2010-05-12, 10:30 PM
Off topic somewhat, but curious.

Why if relatively similar, at least mechanically, is Psion not considered broken to be able to manifest in plate mail, but a wizard is?

And I'm not really talking about Logic Ninja's Batman wizard of perpetual doom, but more WotC interpretation that the only wizard is a blasting wizard - which is pretty much the Psion's best role.


Wizard's developers eventually realized that armored casting just isn't that big a deal- you can find blog statements and 'why we did it' sidebars to that effect if you look for them. So you get the Battle Caster feats, Duskblades getting advancing ability to ignore ASF, Twilight/Feycraft/Thistledown Padding to lower ASF, and generally a bunch of things that add up to quietly removing ASF from the game for those who care enough to seek out how to do it.

taltamir
2010-05-12, 10:41 PM
cleric with the "spell" domain.. (mmm, anyspell, yum!)

alternatively, still spell + meta reducer. its only a +1 so its really easy to reduce to a +0... once you do that you can cast in any armor without any ASF (ASF only applies to spells with somatic component)