Cleric w/ Portals Domain

[twrch2000]

I've been gaming for a few years now, so still pretty new to it all. Our GM wanted to flesh out an event from a 2 year campaign that we ran, but with new characters, all starting at lvl15. Having never taken the time to optimize a character with a simi-advanced level, I was wondering if I could get some suggestions. The only limitations is Cleric base class with Portals Domain - special request from the GM (not sure the significance, but I'm sure there will be a reason revealed later). Anyway, hit me with your best shot, I need feats, mulitclass-combos, etc.

[gbprime]

Well before someone posts about a Divine Metamagic build (really we should make a drinking game out of that one...), what do you want the cleric to DO? If you know what you want to specialize in, that will determine the build.

[PhoenixRivers]

Cleric 3 / Ardent 1 / Psychic Theurge 10 / Church Inquisitor 1

You'll get 2 domains + Inquisition domains, powers of an Ardent 11 (only 2 mantles, 6th level powers), and Cleric 14 casting (7th level spells).

It's basic, simple, but great for dispelling and covers a good variety. Use the alternate features to build your own mantles, and you should be ok.

[Optimystik]

Is it in a particular setting? Unless you're worshiping an ideal or a homebrew deity, the list of gods that could offer Portals is pretty sparse, so we need to know what we're working with.

Regardless, you'll want to be a Cloistered Cleric, so that you have the Knowledge necessary to determine the conditions where any portals you find will lead.

[twrch2000]

Well before someone posts about a Divine Metamagic build (really we should make a drinking game out of that one...), what do you want the cleric to DO? If you know what you want to specialize in, that will determine the build.

No healing. This is my first real caster, but I would like to be taking more of an offensive stance, possibly utilize some of the portal domain abilities for RP flare in combat, whatever. I just don't want to relegated to healing, buffing, and back up damage dealing.

[twrch2000]

Is it in a particular setting? Unless you're worshiping an ideal or a homebrew deity, the list of gods that could offer Portals is pretty sparse, so we need to know what we're working with.

Regardless, you'll want to be a Cloistered Cleric, so that you have the Knowledge necessary to determine the conditions where any portals you find will lead.

For this I was considering the possibility of either homebrew or agnostic. It will be a fairly short campaign with limited encounters, most encounters will be 1 v 1 against lycanthrops (wolf and possibly others depending on where we end up), and all equal or higher level.

[Optimystik]

Portals doesn't give you much in the way of offense. Your best bet is to be the party loremaster, which Cloistered Cleric will enable quite nicely.

I would try to get a hint why your DM wants that domain - if it's to make you the party taxi service (whether interplanar or within one world) there are better ways to go about that.

[gbprime]

Lycanthropes? Moon Domain would be another good choice. Heel, boy. :smallamused:

Coming in at 15th, you'll have 8th level spells to work with if you never sac a caster level. You can easily be a bruiser without sacrificing any spell power if you prepare the right spells. Don't even need much metamagic, just Extend Spell. And with 8th level spells, a Reserve Feat is awful tempting, so you can throw 8d6 energy damage whenever you feel like not whomping someone.

[JeenLeen]

I recommend working with the party so that all the PCs chip in gold to purchase wands of cure light wounds, some scrolls for various status-curing spells, and maybe a scroll of True Resurrection if you all think it's worth it. Maybe prepare a Heal or two for emergencies. That way you have healing covered without being a 'healbot' in any form.

As cheesey as it can be, the Divine Metamagic: Persist chain of feats is very good for making a strong melee cleric. If you want to make a buffer and caster, DMM is also good for buffs. I recall enjoying the spell Cometfall for offensive, damaging spells. I'm not as familiar with clerical debuffs and control spells, although Walls are nice; I'm sure someone else could supplly those tactics.

[twrch2000]

Knowing a bit about the story, I suspect that the domain has something to do with being a taxi.

Since the party will be divided from nearly the start of the campaign, which will end with facing a god avatar as a group, we'll all be carrying our own self healing toys.

So let's say that I can get out of the Portals Domain (yes I know this changes the basis of this whole post), what would be a good alternate? The whole campaign will be lycanthrop themed (all of the other PCs are lycan wolves from the territory, I'll be the "outsider" in the story, but that's just the RP side. I'm already at a disadvantage being human, so packing a divine punch would be a blessing, pardon the puns.

[Optimystik]

Travel offers the same benefits to being a Taxi as Portal, plus a better list (Fly, Greater Teleport, Astral Projection.) You also have a much better granted power.

None of the anti-outsider abilities from Portal (Dimensional Anchor, Banishment) will work on lycanthropes anyway, unless they're extraplanar.

I agree with gbprime - if you're up against the Lycans, Moon domain makes a great secondary. Even if you don't go with an agnostic, Selune offers both domains.

[gallagher]

you dont want to be a healbot, but you need to make sure you can heal, so get a couple of good wands. Jeenleen makes a good suggestion

after that, go after the prestige paladin (dont recall the build). make sure you get righteous might and divine strength. you will need at least 9 cleric levels for that. now you have 2 strength bonuses that stack, a couple of temporary hitpoints, and full BAB for the duration of the spells. grab a melee weapon you are comfortable with and go to town

[jiriku]

No healing. This is my first real caster, but I would like to be taking more of an offensive stance, possibly utilize some of the portal domain abilities for RP flare in combat, whatever. I just don't want to relegated to healing, buffing, and back up damage dealing.

Spell choice is really going to determine your role much more than other aspects of the character. Learn the various barrier spells and spells that impair vision and movement on the cleric list. Player's Handbook and Spell Compendium are all you really need, although there are gems to be found in many other books.

When the time comes to deal damage, you should decide whether you want to wield a weapon or deal direct damage with your spells. Weapon-based damage implies a high Strength, combat feats that enable you to do cool combat maneuvers, and spells like divine power, divine favor, righteous might, greater mighty wallop, and wraithstrike. Spell-based damage implies a high Wisdom, feats that increase your save DCs, spell damage, and ability to bypass spell resistance, and spells like true casting and assay spell resistance.

Also, since you aren't interested in a healing and support role, look into fortunate fate, from Spell Compendium, which creates a contingent heal on yourself or an ally, and the many worthy healing spells in Complete Champion that allow you to heal as a free action or to "pre-cast" healing outside of combat which your allies can then access during combat using their own actions. This will allow you to meet the expectations other players probably have that you'll heal them, without having to spend your own actions during combat to do so.

[Greenish]

I'm already at a disadvantage being human, so packing a divine punch would be a blessing, pardon the puns.Disadvantage? Unless the DM gives everyone else the lycanthrope template without LA or RHD, you'll be at huge advantage!

If he does give the template without LA+RHD, well, as a human cleric you'll still be stronger than any non-caster in the party. :smallamused:

[Math_Mage]

[/obligatory "Now you're thinking with portals!" remark]

[ShneekeyTheLost]

No healing. This is my first real caster, but I would like to be taking more of an offensive stance, possibly utilize some of the portal domain abilities for RP flare in combat, whatever. I just don't want to relegated to healing, buffing, and back up damage dealing.

Check and double-check.

Here's what ya want to do:

Go Cloistered Cleric, and also take the Spontaneous Divine Caster (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/spontaneousDivineCasters.htm) variant. This lets you use any of your spells any time you want to, and keeps the party from trying to pidgeonhole you into 'healbot' because you simply don't TAKE any healing spells...

Even better, your domain spells effectively become Spells Known, which is open to all kinds of fun stuff...

Now what you want is a boatload of Domains, because you get all domain spells free. So go pick some PrC's that give bonus domains. I think there may be a feat that does so as well.

Destruction domain works well, as it gets things like Disintegrate

War domain also gets some fun stuff

I'm not up on non-SRD domains, but see if you can pick up most of the Batman Wizard's bag of tricks... you know what I'm talkin' about, Slow, Cloudkill, Save or Loose effects...

[Curmudgeon]

Are you referring to the Portal (http://home.comcast.net/~ftm3/ASMoNM/domains.html#Portal) (singular) domain? That provides portal detection (granted power), plus Analyze Portal, Dimension Door, and Teleport (spells not on the base Cleric list). (Travel doesn't offer the detect and Analyze features.)

Other than that requirement, you're a standard Cleric. Since you want offensive capability, I recommend going the Cloistered Cleric (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#clericVariantCloistere dCleric) route, and thereby pick up Knowledge (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/clericDomains.htm#knowledgeDomain) as a bonus domain.

If you want to worship a deity, Eilistraee (Chaotic Good) has both Portal and Moon (http://home.comcast.net/~ftm3/ASMoNM/domains.html#Portal). Moon lets you turn or destroy lycanthropes as a good cleric turns undead, which looks like it could be useful for you. Otherwise you can be a deityless Cloistered Cleric with the same domains; then you won't have to be within 1 alignment step of Eilistraee's CG. I'd go with Eilistraee, because that lets you use spells like Weapon of the Deity (bastard sword) and Visage of the Deity.

As for how Cloistered Cleric gets you offensive capability, you can turn Knowledge into Knowledge Devotion (Complete Champion). The Knowledge Devotion feat gives you bonuses to attack and damage based on an appropriate Knowledge check for the type of creature you're up against. There are 6 Knowledge (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/knowledge.htm) skills related to creatures. Maxing out all 6 of these will give you significant bonuses against everything in combat, and Cloistered Cleric's scholarly orientation gives you extra skill points. You'll want to take the Education feat (either Eberron Campaign Setting, page 52 or Player's Guide to Faerûn, page 38; it's not setting-specific) at first level so you'll have all Knowledges as class skills (even after trading away Knowledge for Knowledge Devotion.)

The key spell for a Cleric (especially a Cloistered one) for offense is Divine Power (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/divinepower.htm), because that boosts your BAB in combat.

Now let's talk defense -- or rather, boosts to AC without armor. There's a nice little wrinkle in the rules that should help you out.

1) Start with the right clothing.
Scholar’s Outfit

Perfect for a scholar, this outfit includes a robe, a belt, a cap, soft shoes, and possibly a cloak.2) Next, enhance the robe with an armor bonus (up to +8), as per Magic Item Compendium page 234. This works exactly the same as Bracers of Armor; the "Adding/Improving Common Item Effects" table allows armor bonuses in both Arms (bracers) and Body (robe) slots.

3) Next, you can add an armor enhancement bonus on top of the armor bonus if you cast Magic Vestment:
You imbue a suit of armor or a shield with an enhancement bonus of +1 per four caster levels (maximum +5 at 20th level).

An outfit of regular clothing counts as armor that grants no AC bonus for the purpose of this spell.4) Finally, realize that your armor boost (up to +13 already) isn't from actual armor at all, and thus you can still wear a Monk's Belt to get (1 + WIS bonus) more AC!

[Greenish]

AOther than that requirement, you're a standard Cleric. Since you want offensive capability, I recommend going the Cloistered Cleric (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#clericVariantCloistere dCleric) route, and thereby pick up Knowledge (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/clericDomains.htm#knowledgeDomain) as a bonus domain.As for how Cloistered Cleric gets you offensive capability, you can turn Knowledge into Knowledge Devotion (Complete Champion). The Knowledge Devotion feat gives you bonuses to attack and damage based on an appropriate Knowledge check for the type of creature you're up against. There are 6 Knowledge (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/knowledge.htm) skills related to creatures. Maxing out all 6 of these will give you significant bonuses against everything in combat, and Cloistered Cleric's scholarly orientation gives you extra skill points. You'll want to take the Education feat (either Eberron Campaign Setting, page 52 or Player's Guide to Faerûn, page 38; it's not setting-specific) at first level so you'll have all Knowledges as class skills (even after trading away Knowledge for Knowledge Devotion.)I seem to recall that clerics could only change one of their domains for the matching Devotion (or I might be making that up, AFB). It might be better to take Knowledge Devotion as a feat instead of Eduction, so you could swap out your third domain if you wished. Law, Strength and Animal devotions all offer nice offensive buffs.

[The Cat Goddess]

Now let's talk defense -- or rather, boosts to AC without armor. There's a nice little wrinkle in the rules that should help you out.

1) Start with the right clothing.2) Next, enhance the robe with an armor bonus (up to +8), as per Magic Item Compendium page 234. This works exactly the same as Bracers of Armor; the "Adding/Improving Common Item Effects" table allows armor bonuses in both Arms (bracers) and Body (robe) slots.

3) Next, you can add an armor enhancement bonus on top of the armor bonus if you cast Magic Vestment:4) Finally, realize that your armor boost (up to +13 already) isn't from actual armor at all, and thus you can still wear a Monk's Belt to get (1 + WIS bonus) more AC!

Actually, the "Armor Bonus" on magic armour (or, in this case, a magic robe) is already an Enhancement Bonus.

But you can still get +1 Robes and cast Magic Vestment on them. This allows you to get things like Fortification and other such armor enchantments and rely on your Magic Vestment spell to provide the +5 Armor bonus (since the greater bonus of the spell overrides the +1 on the Robes).

On the Plus side, Robes are a very good way for a Cleric to get use out of the Magic Vestment spell and still utilize a Monk's Belt.

[Greenish]

Actually, the "Armor Bonus" on magic armour (or, in this case, a magic robe) is already an Enhancement Bonus.No, if you lift the property straight from Bracers of Armor (as per MIC rules), it'll be Armor Bonus.

[The Cat Goddess]

No, if you lift the property straight from Bracers of Armor (as per MIC rules), it'll be Armor Bonus.

Hmmm... I never actually read it that way. Interesting indeed.

Though that does explain why the Robe of the Arch-Magi has a +5 Armor Bonus and not a +5 Enhancement Bonus to Armor...

[Akal Saris]

Here's a sample build:

Human Cloistered Cleric 9/Paragnostic Initiate 5/Contemplative 1
Domains: Knowledge, Travel, Moon, Open (I recommend Fire, Time, or Planning)

Paragnostic Initiate works off of your high knowledge skills and advances both turning and lore - with the moon domain you really want your turning to be as strong as possible. It also gives some nifty minor abilities each level. Contemplative 1 gives a free domain, that's all you really want from it.

[Optimystik]

Are you referring to the Portal (http://home.comcast.net/~ftm3/ASMoNM/domains.html#Portal) (singular) domain? That provides portal detection (granted power), plus Analyze Portal, Dimension Door, and Teleport (spells not on the base Cleric list). (Travel doesn't offer the detect and Analyze features.)\

But Travel does offer Dim. Door, Teleport, Greater Teleport, and most importantly, Fly. I'd rather have more general utility than situational abilities like analyze portal.


Here's a sample build:

Human Cloistered Cleric 9/Paragnostic Initiate 5/Contemplative 1
Domains: Knowledge, Travel, Moon, Open (I recommend Fire, Time, or Planning)

Paragnostic Initiate works off of your high knowledge skills and advances both turning and lore - with the moon domain you really want your turning to be as strong as possible. It also gives some nifty minor abilities each level. Contemplative 1 gives a free domain, that's all you really want from it.

I think you mean Paragnostic Apostle - PI is a trap and should be avoided (it advances neither casting nor turning.)

[gallagher]

also, for defensive capabilities, if you have the money (you are at 15th level, so you are more likely to have more cash to spare at this point) get a ring of blinking. 27k gp for a 50% miss chance, cant be flanked or sneak attacked, take half damage from falling and area effects, +2 to hit, and deny enemies their dex bonus to AC.

there are others, and for those, here is the link to blink (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Blink)

it is a really good investment, especially if you plan on ever having to fight rogues, wizards who dont have see invisibility prepared for the day, and every fighter in the book. heck, you are a better fighter, because after divine power and righteous might, you have full BAB, +12 strength IIRC, and spells, and can heal yourself. the only thing they have better is more HP, but you are hitting just as hard as them and more often because of your better strength and the ring of blink.

[olentu]

Now let's talk defense -- or rather, boosts to AC without armor. There's a nice little wrinkle in the rules that should help you out.

1) Start with the right clothing.2) Next, enhance the robe with an armor bonus (up to +8), as per Magic Item Compendium page 234. This works exactly the same as Bracers of Armor; the "Adding/Improving Common Item Effects" table allows armor bonuses in both Arms (bracers) and Body (robe) slots.

3) Next, you can add an armor enhancement bonus on top of the armor bonus if you cast Magic Vestment:4) Finally, realize that your armor boost (up to +13 already) isn't from actual armor at all, and thus you can still wear a Monk's Belt to get (1 + WIS bonus) more AC!

I sincerely doubt that highly enchanted magical robes count as regular clothing. So as you would obviously argue the opposite I must say that by the rules the situation is too unclear.

Thus this trick relies completely on a particular DM ruling relating to the word regular as opposed to a definite ruling from the rules. I believe that this should be noted when advising such a thing.

[Curmudgeon]

I sincerely doubt that highly enchanted magical robes count as regular clothing. So as you would obviously argue the opposite I must say that by the rules the situation is too unclear.
They're not "highly enchanted" (or in any way an enchantment; rather, this effect is a conjuration, and of moderate rather than high power). In fact, armor bonuses in body slot items are allowed without any cost premium precisely because they're common item effects. And the base robes from the Scholar's Outfit are so very common that they don't even cost anything. :smallwink:

It's true that the game doesn't define many terms like "regular" or "normal". I would caution against being overly restrictive in interpretation, though. Many people argued that "as part of normal movement" precluded use of the Tumble skill in a charge; however, Tome of Battle and later Rules Compendium clarified that "normal" just meant any movement where you had a listed speed.

[olentu]

They're not "highly enchanted" (or in any way an enchantment; rather, this effect is a conjuration, and of moderate rather than high power). In fact, armor bonuses in body slot items are allowed without any cost premium precisely because they're common item effects. And the base robes from the Scholar's Outfit are so very common that they don't even cost anything. :smallwink:

It's true that the game doesn't define many terms like "regular" or "normal". I would caution against being overly restrictive in interpretation, though. Many people argued that "as part of normal movement" precluded use of the Tumble skill in a charge; however, Tome of Battle and later Rules Compendium clarified that "normal" just meant any movement where you had a listed speed.

Bah not using the game term enchant but if you find it confusing they are highly magically augmented depending on what the bonus is. They may in fact be augmented to the limits of the bonus listed in the MIC. I would say in the latter case the clothing is highly magically augmented given that they are at the listed max for the book.

I would caution against being overly open about anything if one is presenting it as the way things are by the rules. If one notes that one is making an interpretation in place of a DM then I do not really have a problem. Likewise if the rules were clearer in this situation I would also be fine. However saying that something is the way things are in a fashion that seems to say that it is the way things must be by the rules can mislead someone into thinking that the rules are more clear then they might happen to be and that should probably be avoided if the rules are unclear on a point (which in this case I would say is the case).

[gallagher]

one more thing. be evil. while undead you raise arent that powerful or optimized, they provide flanking bonus, have alot of immunities (which are indeed helpful) and give you a bit of a shield while you buff yourself

[twrch2000]

one more thing. be evil. while undead you raise arent that powerful or optimized, they provide flanking bonus, have alot of immunities (which are indeed helpful) and give you a bit of a shield while you buff yourself

While this idea does appeal to me, the campaign involves the rise of LG lycanthrop wolves against an evil leader and his supporting clans. So playing evil would not fit in.


Regarding the armor discussion, thank you. This is something I have been talking about with my GM for the past few weeks, trying to figure out how to get out of wearing plate and still have the needed armor. I think is already open to this idea, but I will discuss with him to get a final decision.

Thank you all for the great suggestions and discussion, this has been both enlightening and informative.

[gallagher]

Then be neutral and channel negative energy. If you don't have a god who fits this, you can worship a concept and get your power that way

[Curmudgeon]

Regarding the armor discussion, thank you. This is something I have been talking about with my GM for the past few weeks, trying to figure out how to get out of wearing plate and still have the needed armor. I think is already open to this idea, but I will discuss with him to get a final decision.
You're welcome. Regular armor is still much more cost-effective, but Cloistered Clerics have severe limitations in that regard; this was my attempt at crafting a solution within the rules. At low levels you'll be stuck with nothing better than Protection from Evil to boost your AC, and will be pumping quite a lot of your wealth into armor enhancements to your robe. (You can't even cast Magic Vestment until you reach 5th level.) So while at high levels this is a fairly elegant solution to the problem, it's still expensive and somewhat risky getting there.