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Sciath
2010-05-12, 07:04 PM
Well, I'm not quite sure what got into me (I'm the DM of our group), but I think I like it. Our Human Ranger, 9th level, has basically become a sub-orbital strike platform. A couple of completely awesome things that I decided to give him came together and started to snowball.

1) The Bow. He possesses a mild artifact bow with an (Ex) special ability so it can't be dispelled. Note: It requires a move action to nock an arrow, draw back the bow, and aim it.
Airuath (Literally means Terror in Old Irish, which we use as Celestial in our setting.)
Dmg:1d12(Allows full STR bonus)
Range:200
Weight:10
Deals a sonic attack as per the Shout spell, to anything within 10 ft. of the bowman, within 5 ft. of any point along the path of the arrow, and within 20 ft. of the "recipient". Wielder and his mount are immune.

2) The Mount. Giant Eagle companion which I'm allowing to eventually progress past its normal size limit as per its HD.

3) The Gear.
Adapted Dragon harness allowing him to stand fully upright even if the bird is upside down.
Bottle-of-Air-like flight mask (Think modern fighter pilot) for both bird and archer. It's a gnomish contraption.


Is this awesome? What do you think?

The Glyphstone
2010-05-12, 07:05 PM
What's the caster level on the Shout spell? his HD?

Tinydwarfman
2010-05-12, 07:18 PM
1) The Bow. He possesses a mild artifact bow with an (Ex) special ability so it can't be dispelled. Note: It requires a move action to nock an arrow, draw back the bow, and aim it.


Unfortunately (or fortunately for you as the DM) this makes the entire thing pretty suck unless he is going swift hunter style.

druid91
2010-05-12, 07:42 PM
Meh, its okay.... the real kill sat is a high level druid with a dragon-hawk animal companion. I used that to first freeze and then drop rocks on, a hostile city with various psychic people that the party killed.

abandon hope
2010-05-12, 08:08 PM
Also known as a sitting duck, especially if played for flamboyance. If you feel it is becoming too unbalancing, and your player does not deviate from this single tactic, it would not be a fiat to have an enemy prepared to treat him like a clay pigeon.

That being said, it's not that unbalancing, and if it's fun, throw a couple flying enemies, or summons, or whatever, in the encounters to compensate.

Sciath
2010-05-12, 08:16 PM
What's the caster level on the Shout spell? his HD?

Haven't fleshed that part out yet, but it seems like that'd be a fair way to do it.

Tinydwarfman
2010-05-12, 08:56 PM
Haven't fleshed that part out yet, but it seems like that'd be a fair way to do it.

It doesn't really matter that much unless you're facing constructs, as the main damage part is CL independent, but HD sounds good.

Also, I assume the "move action to draw thing" can nock as many arrows as you want? Because otherwise you can't even manyshot it. Which would REALLY suck.

Garygolf
2010-05-12, 09:32 PM
Meh, its okay.... the real kill sat is a high level druid with a dragon-hawk animal companion. I used that to first freeze and then drop rocks on, a hostile city with various psychic people that the party killed.

Sounds fun. Far more practical than my bard's dimension door into the sky and feather fall down with a shower of animals from a bag of tricks.

Regarding the bow, it seems to be a fun concept. Just so long as it doesn't become a "one trick pony" for the ranger. Need some variation in combat to keep things interesting.

awa
2010-05-12, 10:47 PM
don't think of him like an archer think of him like a bomber sure he cant many shot but he has free shouts every round all day long and the mount can move for him.

Thats not a bad deal at mid level

Another_Poet
2010-05-12, 10:53 PM
Airuath (Literally means Terror in Old Irish, which we use as Celestial in our setting.)

It checks out in eDIL (http://www.dil.ie/). Consider me officially impressed!

Seriously, the bow could do 1d2 damage and require a full round to reload, but accurate use of Old Irish will win my support every time.

edit: I forgive you for forgetting the fada because it's a forum :)

Tinydwarfman
2010-05-12, 11:02 PM
don't think of him like an archer think of him like a bomber sure he cant many shot but he has free shouts every round all day long and the mount can move for him.

Thats not a bad deal at mid level

Actually that is really bad. 5d6? Thats 17.5 damage. At level 9. Your average melee PC should have about 100 HP. So the arrow bumps that damage up to say, 25, and your ranger should kill something a fellow PC in 4 shots. Not to mention that monsters generally have much more HP than PC's. Just sayin, I'd rather have a normal WBL bow if that's the only property on it.

awa
2010-05-12, 11:08 PM
your forgetting it still has the arrow damage which also adds full strength and even if you miss with the attack you still have the shout which also deafens and you can still many shot it only takes a standard action

edit 100 hp seems a little high for level 9 assuming a fighter with 16 con 10 hp at first level and 8.5 every level after that we don't get 100 hp

Krazddndfreek
2010-05-12, 11:17 PM
Average PC health at 9th level is in the 50-70 range. Still, if you can't dish enough to kill that in 1-2 rounds, you're sorta not doing your job right

Tinydwarfman
2010-05-12, 11:18 PM
your forgetting it still has the arrow damage which also adds full strength and even if you miss with the attack you still have the shout which also deafens and you can still many shot it only takes a standard action

edit 100 hp seems a little high for level 9 assuming a fighter with 16 con 10 hp at first level and 8.5 every level after that we don't get 100 hp

Con boosting item does the trick. A +2 costs almost nothing for a level nine PC.

Also: you're right, should increase the damage up to 30 per shot then. Still doesn't compare to a good bow. If you can Many shot, it gets a lot better, but my current reading says no. Move action to nock AN arrow.

Noedig
2010-05-12, 11:22 PM
First I love the name of the bow.
Second I like the idea of your ranger flying around on a giant eagle and raining death from on high. I think manyshot would be retardedly painful coming from that bow, even if he misses his target.
The RP-ness of what hes doing is great too. I imagine that'd be pretty terrifying to be on the business end of.

randomhero00
2010-05-12, 11:58 PM
How does he see? Also, isn't it a move action to stay mounted or control the mount or something?

Cool roleplay wise.

Milskidasith
2010-05-13, 12:13 AM
Full attack >>> this bow.

The Rabbler
2010-05-13, 12:28 AM
Full attack >>> this bow.

this.

all you need is a full attack with a composite bow made for you to unleash even more hurt. throw on +2 and wounding and you're dealing out more than your share (yes, I know, a +4 bow isn't possible at this level when using WBL).

Asbestos
2010-05-13, 01:09 AM
Con boosting item does the trick. A +2 costs almost nothing for a level nine PC.

Also: you're right, should increase the damage up to 30 per shot then. Still doesn't compare to a good bow. If you can Many shot, it gets a lot better, but my current reading says no. Move action to nock AN arrow.
Isn't Manyshot nocking and shooting two arrows simultaneously? I think it would be allowed. A full attack though, that wouldn't work and as others have pointed out, that's where its biggest failing is.

satorian
2010-05-13, 01:12 AM
While it's true he isn't doing incredible damage to one person, he is doing damage to a) everyone around him; b) a line effect to the target; c) an area of effect at the target. That's not great against a Big Bad, but it's excellent for groups.

If I were this ranger, I'd want either a regular magic bow as backup or an option on this one to fire normally. I'd ask my DM if the bow could act like a +1 sonic burst bow unless a specific action is taken to make the move-action-draw-shout-thing happen.

Krazddndfreek
2010-05-13, 01:14 AM
He flies around on a Giant Eagle. There is no one around him.

EDIT: And not a whole lot nearby his line of fire.

Milskidasith
2010-05-13, 01:26 AM
He flies around on a Giant Eagle. There is no one around him.

EDIT: And not a whole lot nearby his line of fire.

Pretty much this. Even if the AoE were worth it (which it really isn't) the fact he's firing like, well, a satellite means only other flying foes who are *really* bad at positioning will be in the line of fire. The AoE for the arrow hit, possibly, but the line itself is rather useless.

And again, full attack once you hit 11 means you deal more hurt to one person and similar damage with a regular bow compared to one shot, especially if you switch this bow out with a composite +X +some damage bow

ka_bna
2010-05-13, 05:55 AM
Now, if you increase the range of the sonic (collateral) attack, add in force (or fire) damage, take far shot and upgrade your spot skill, you just got your satellite upgraded.
Advice: don't take your satellite underground, especially in 5x5 ft corridors.

Oh, and try to get the bow enchanted with the seeking property, so it the arrows get a "shoot and forget" feeling.

Greenish
2010-05-13, 06:16 AM
How does he see? Also, isn't it a move action to stay mounted or control the mount or something?Controlling a mount (with or without using your hands) is a non-action. DC 5 Ride check if you want to control it with your knees, freeing your hands. Making the mount attack is likewise free action (DC 10).

Only usages of ride that require actions are Spurring the mount (to increase it's speed for one round) and controlling a mount not trained for fighting, which are move actions.

acid_ninja
2010-05-13, 06:39 AM
I suppose an extra d6 doesn't make a lot of difference but plunging shot from RotW means an extra d6 of damage pretty much every shot.

Indon
2010-05-13, 07:43 AM
Can that Ranger take abilities and such to improve this sonic damage?

I imagine there's some way to cheese it.

Gorbash
2010-05-13, 08:02 AM
Actually that is really bad. 5d6? Thats 17.5 damage. At level 9.

17.5... On a failed fort save. Since I can't imagine DC being high and as we all know, Fort is the highest saving throw monsters have, it's more like 9 damage. At level 9.

Now, compare an ARTIFACT with a Colision enhancement... Well, you get the idea.

Gnaeus
2010-05-13, 08:29 AM
Doesn't look like the bow does anything to negate the normal weaknesses of ranged characters (Wind Wall, Concealment, etc). It instead adds new weaknesses (a silence spell kills it, resist energy (Sonic) nerfs it to near uselessness).

Even if the bow did as much damage as a comparable melee (which it doesn't look to me like it will, most of the time), melee are far behind casters by level 9. If you cranked the Shout damage up to something reasonable (say 1d6 sonic per level of the bow's user, with a fort DC of 10+1/2 user's level+user's Dex mod) AND you allowed it to stack with multishot (unclear if you can from OP), it would do average 76 damage per round or 45 if the foe makes his fort saves and both arrows hit. That isn't very impressive. The deafness makes it moderately OK vs arcane casters, assuming that those casters don't use one of their many methods of shutting it down completely or cranking their saves. So, houseruled to make it much stronger, it isn't what I would call awesome. OK at best.


Meh, its okay.... the real kill sat is a high level druid with a dragon-hawk animal companion. I used that to first freeze and then drop rocks on, a hostile city with various psychic people that the party killed.

+1. Any full caster with a method for long duration flight (and I will admit that last clause may have been redundant) makes a much better kill sat.