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Boci
2010-05-12, 07:24 PM
What short of spells should an Ur Priest select? They have a very low caster level, so any biffs they cast would be vulnerable to dispel and additionally may have a short duration. SR is going to be a problem and there are not that many ofensive spells that do not allow it, and they do not even get that many spells. So what short of spells would you ready on a typical adventuring day?

Eldonauran
2010-05-12, 07:45 PM
If you want to be offensive and are worried about SR, try and prep spells that do not over SR. Otherwise, find ways to boost CL, line Practised Spellcaster or some of the other tricks.

I typically use buffs and DMM(Persist) to get me where I am going.

Boci
2010-05-12, 07:48 PM
I typically use buffs and DMM(Persist) to get me where I am going.

Aren't you worried about the low CL making it vulnerable to dispel?

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-05-12, 07:54 PM
Aren't you worried about the low CL making it vulnerable to dispel?

Take a level or two of Ur-Priest before PrC'ing into something that advances casting, applying such benefits to Ur-Priest casting. Bam, now every two levels of the advancing PrC gives you 3 CL.

Boci
2010-05-12, 07:58 PM
Take a level or two of Ur-Priest before PrC'ing into something that advances casting, applying such benefits to Ur-Priest casting. Bam, now every two levels of the advancing PrC gives you 3 CL.

Won't work in my current group, DM won't allow it.

JeminiZero
2010-05-12, 08:08 PM
Remember that half your levels in other spellcasting classes count towards your Ur-Priest CL. Add on Practiced Spellcaster, and you should be able to hit the HD cap for your CL.

Runestar
2010-05-12, 08:19 PM
Remember that half your levels in other spellcasting classes count towards your Ur-Priest CL. Add on Practiced Spellcaster, and you should be able to hit the HD cap for your CL.

Agreed. For instance, a binder5/ur-priest10 with practiced spellcaster would have full caster lv of 15.

Boci
2010-05-12, 08:29 PM
Remember that half your levels in other spellcasting classes count towards your Ur-Priest CL. Add on Practiced Spellcaster, and you should be able to hit the HD cap for your CL.

I knew there was something I was forgetting. Facepalm.


Agreed. For instance, a binder5/ur-priest10 with practiced spellcaster would have full caster lv of 15.

Not 14, since the binder is not a caster class? (Ur 10 + 4 from practised spell caster).

Jack_Simth
2010-05-12, 08:32 PM
Agreed. For instance, a binder5/ur-priest10 with practiced spellcaster would have full caster lv of 15.

Additionally, any round your opponent spends dispelling the buff they just saw you cast is a round in which they're NOT casting a spell to harm your allies. If you outnumber your opponents, this is a good thing - you go from, say, a You:Them action economy of 4:1 to 3:0, as they spent the round spending their action to remove your action from the table ... Leaving three other people (in a standard group of 4) to hurt your enemy. Unless you rely on long-duration buffs (e.g., the DMM(Persistent Spell) route), and you don't prepare multiples of your buffing spells, the enemy dispelling your spells is not necessarily a bad thing, although it seems a bad thing on the surface.

Edit:
Oh, and unless you're particularly fond of the Ur-Priest's ability to steal spell-like ability (Find and possibly enslave an Efreeti to abuse it), and the Siphon Spell Power ability (trade two 6th level spell slots for an extra 9th), there's very little point of going past level 2 in Ur-Priest. Which means another PrC that advances spellcasting would be a good idea - Contemplative, perhaps, for domain access. Or, if you had an Arcane spellcasting entry (recommended, usually), Mystic Theurge.

Runestar
2010-05-12, 08:38 PM
Not 14, since the binder is not a caster class? (Ur 10 + 4 from practised spell caster).

You are right. Make it bard4/binder1 or some other combination then.


Additionally, any round your opponent spends dispelling the buff they just saw you cast is a round in which they're NOT casting a spell to harm your allies.

Unless of course, it is a chain dispel. :smallamused:

Boci
2010-05-12, 08:45 PM
Okay, so the low caster level is easy enough to overcome. Has anyone who ever played an Ur Priest found the low number of spells per day crippling?

Jack_Simth
2010-05-12, 08:47 PM
Unless of course, it is a chain dispel. :smallamused:That's simply dispelling more spells at once. It depends a bit on the optimization level of the party, and how much is used in the way of long-running buff spells. It can definitely be a bad thing if your opponent dispels your buffs - most notably, when you tend to layer them over long periods - but if you go heavy on the single-combat buffs (usually round/level buffs, sometimes minute/level buffs as well) and light on the long-running buffs, then that chained dispel is mostly just annoying (sure, he'll also dispel some of your items while he's at it... assuming he can guess or see which ones are magical enough to need dispelling.... but they'll be back in force in a few rounds. Meanwhile, the Fighter can grapple him because he didn't cast anything to stop that, the Rogue can sneak attack him because he didn't cast anything to stop that, and the Wizard can play around with his favorite spells).

Jeff240sx
2010-05-12, 09:36 PM
Okay, so the low caster level is easy enough to overcome. Has anyone who ever played an Ur Priest found the low number of spells per day crippling?


Limited spells per day... I never found that crippling. Mostly because Ur-Priest is a fast-progression class and allows one to take any other PrCs, advancing Ur-Priest casting, and getting other class abilities.

Like.. nobody plays Fighter 10 / Ur-Priest 10.
They do things like my Hellfire Ur-Lock, Warlock 4 / Binder 1 / Ur-Priest 2 / Eldritch Disciple 10 / Hellfire Warlock 3

Ends with CL 15 strictly, or 29 with a lax DM. And a host of Warlock goodies.

Optimator
2010-05-12, 10:26 PM
I personally like selecting a lot of the spells from the BoVD. Hate to see Spell Focus: Evil go to waste.

Boci
2010-05-13, 08:37 AM
Limited spells per day... I never found that crippling. Mostly because Ur-Priest is a fast-progression class and allows one to take any other PrCs, advancing Ur-Priest casting, and getting other class abilities.

Like.. nobody plays Fighter 10 / Ur-Priest 10.
They do things like my Hellfire Ur-Lock, Warlock 4 / Binder 1 / Ur-Priest 2 / Eldritch Disciple 10 / Hellfire Warlock 3

Fair point, but what about bard 2 / binder 8 / ur priest 10? That only CL 11. You can boost it to 19 with two feats, but feats are rare.

Also, are there any magical items that specifically raise your CL for the purposed of disple checks against you, since those should be cheaper?


Ends with CL 15 strictly, or 29 with a lax DM. And a host of Warlock goodies.

As I said, won't work in this game, the party is at too low a level of optimization.

Jeff240sx
2010-05-13, 09:15 AM
Fair point, but what about bard 2 / binder 8 / ur priest 10? That only CL 11. You can boost it to 19 with two feats, but feats are rare.

Also, are there any magical items that specifically raise your CL for the purposed of disple checks against you, since those should be cheaper?



As I said, won't work in this game, the party is at too low a level of optimization.

Binder / Wizard / Anima mage / Ur-Priest?

Why bard, when you'd get similar level spells as Anima Mage / Ur-Priest, and have a CL of 15.

Boci
2010-05-13, 09:30 AM
Binder / Wizard / Anima mage / Ur-Priest?

Why bard, when you'd get similar level spells as Anima Mage / Ur-Priest, and have a CL of 15.

Because its too powerful for the group.

PId6
2010-05-13, 10:56 AM
Beads of Karma works nicely to combat dispel, as do other CL boosting items like Orange Ioun Stone. Ring of Enduring Arcana (CM) gives you +4 specifically against dispelling and counterspells, for the low low price of 6,000 gp.