PDA

View Full Version : [3.5]How to build Thane Krios from Mass Effect 2



Hawk7915
2010-05-13, 12:23 PM
Hey everyone. In my upcoming high-level campaign, one of my players wants to play Thane Krios (http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Thane_Krios), the assassin that joins your party in Mass Effect 2. He asked me for some advice on the best build choice for him and...I am at a total loss. So, what do you guys think?

Thane's crunch, in a nutshell:
- Amazing ranged fighter
- Competent hand-to-hand fighter
- Religious
- Sneaky assassin type
- May have been evil, but is probably good now
- Can use biotic abilities (the force, basically, for those that have never played Mass Effect)

Campaign Details:
- lvl 10, 36 pt. buy, 1 flaw and 1 trait, 48,000 GP starting gear (nothing worth more than 12,000, and yes I know that is under WBL. That's intentional)
- Books available are Complete Warrior/Scoundrel/Arcane, SRD, ToB, Savage Species, Races of the Dragon. Other material may or may not be available from certain websites best left unmentioned :smallwink:.
- As DM, I am minimizing houserules. But if it comes up in the build, Monk is full BAB, and Assassin does not require the character to be evil.
- As DM, I would prefer the build has a maximum of 4 classes. Nothing too munchkiny. He needs to be good at his job (ranged fighting, being sneaky) but not a total monster. His allies are a Duskblade 10 and a Druid 5/Master of Many Forms 5, so make of that what you will. If he could handle disarming, that'd be great.

Obviously it's hard to cram all of those powers into one character and still have it be playable. So, in order of priority:
- Ranged power is number one; the character needs to be a lethal ranged combatant
- Next is biotic powers. Psionics seems to best capture this, but other casting might help too...
- Stealth/tracking skills would be nice, but not essential.
- Sneak attack dice would be nice, but not essential.
- If you have all of the above and can still squeeze in maneuvers/good unarmed damage, excellent.

Critical
2010-05-13, 12:29 PM
Rogue 1/Psychic Warrior 9 with Zen Archery and Able Learner?

Edge
2010-05-13, 12:34 PM
These (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723a) may be of some interest.

And if ToB is allowed, then perhaps an unarmed swordsage dip.

Hawk7915
2010-05-13, 02:15 PM
Huh, I had all these complicated build ideas in mind (Ranger/Psion/Slayer? Archer Cleric with Rogue levels? Something with Slayer of Domiel?) and then I saw the Psychic Rogue. Whether he goes Assassin, Psychic Assassin, or Slayer of Domiel, that is pretty much the perfect base. 9 levels of it lets him take Expanded Knowledge (Energy Push), which is almost word-for-word what "Throw" does in the game, so that is awesome. Thanks!

Of course, on the off chance my player isn't a fan of this idea, any other good build ideas? Or ideas for races that look/feel vaguely like the Drell with no LA? :smallsmile:

TimeWizard
2010-05-13, 02:46 PM
Depending on how hard you want to push the ranged combat idea (considering Thane rocked that pistol [I]hard[/I), I suggest the Soulknife. There are feats allow for throwing the blade(s) or turning it into a soul bow.

I'm glad I finally get to reccomend this class to someone who isn't trying to replicate Bleach (or Jedi, but mostly Bleach)

Project_Mayhem
2010-05-13, 03:56 PM
Drell get +lots to charisma for having a stupid sexy voice. I'm not gay dammit.

PId6
2010-05-13, 05:32 PM
Race: Human

Class: Rogue 1/Ardent 4/Psychic Assassin 3/Swordsage 1/Psychic Assassin +7/Ardent +4

Shaper is another option for better power selection and Int focus at a cost of bab, ability to take higher level powers, and mantle abilities. If abilities are low, shaper is probably better due to more SAD. But with such high point buy, you should have more than enough to spare a bit for Int while still maxing Wis and keeping a decent Dex, so ardent is probably the best choice.

Edit: And if CPsi is not available, then of course shaper will have to do.

Feats: Take Able Learner at 1st level, and Practiced Manifester at 3rd, then pick whatever. Expanded Knowledge is probably going to be taken quite a few times.

Powers: Psionic Grease helps make enemies flat-footed at range. Astral Construct flanks for you when in melee, though it won't be too impressive as a combatant on its own due to lost ML. Chameleon gives you a humongous +Hide. Psionic Minor Creation lets you make poisons at no cost, which is just awesome.

Taking Assassin's Stance with the swordsage dip, you'll end up with 7d6 sneak attack damage, which is not bad at range. You'll have 13 real levels in ardent as well as ML 17, which is just enough to take one 9th level power. The swordsage dip grants some other maneuvers as well. The sneak attacking is perfectly fine in melee as well, and maneuvers help there even more. With Able Learner, Chameleon power, and assuming decent Int, you should have a very nice +Hide check as well.

The Rose Dragon
2010-05-14, 12:23 AM
Of course, none of those powers actually fit Thane's biotic abilities. Or racial abilities. Hell, he doesn't even use poisons.

His biotic abilities include Throw, which is non-sustained telekinesis, and Warp, which is an untyped damage power. Anything else purely comes from training.

Also, he's definitely not human.

holywhippet
2010-05-14, 12:57 AM
I'm thinking ranger/shadow dancer - the latter especially for the hide in plain sight ability. Not sure about how to match the biotic powers unless you take some levels in sorcerer or something - maybe levels in warlock?

PId6
2010-05-14, 01:37 AM
Of course, none of those powers actually fit Thane's biotic abilities. Or racial abilities. Hell, he doesn't even use poisons.
Never played Mass Effect 2 so I wouldn't know. The OP described him as some kind of psionic assassin so that's what I built. It's pretty hard to copy a fictional character's abilities exactly using preexisting classes/races and still have a viable character. The best way to do that would be homebrewing; otherwise compromises will have to be made. (And besides, do you really need a mirror match if you've a character close enough in flavor?)


His biotic abilities include Throw, which is non-sustained telekinesis, and Warp, which is an untyped damage power. Anything else purely comes from training.
Sounds like powers like Telekinetic Thrust, Energy Missile, and Energy Push might be appropriate. A kineticist in this case might be more appropriate than a shaper.


Also, he's definitely not human.
It's easy to refluff races as long as there's nothing too weird like tentacles involved.

The Rose Dragon
2010-05-14, 01:38 AM
The problem is, of course, that he has two biotic powers, so going with psion might be overkill.

Noodles2375
2010-05-14, 02:00 AM
Honestly, the Lurk or the Psychic Rogue will probably capture him best.

I was thinking like Rn 2/ Ardent 8
to give you some feeling of his mysticism/religion along with good BAB and some neat powers. Trying out the Deception, Force, and Freedom mantles to capture his mobility, biotic skills, and infiltration abilities.

But I think that kind of sucks. A 2 level dip of ranger doesn't really give him time to pump though perception skills you'd probably like, and goodness knows the Ardent is skill light. Also, it really feels like Thane should have some sort of sneak attack ability.

The Lurk isn't completely awful, but I think the psychic rogue they presented looks much tastier.

Noodles2375
2010-05-14, 02:02 AM
I didn't notice but the psychic rogue manifests off of int. That is awesome. Use that.

Coidzor
2010-05-14, 03:55 AM
In the game, things are dumbed down for simplicity of squad command. Biotics would know more than 2-4 powers.

As far as nearest analogues without a homebrewed drell species, amphibiousness is probably one of the main things to look for.

The Rose Dragon
2010-05-14, 04:02 AM
In the game, things are dumbed down for simplicity of squad command. Biotics would know more than 2-4 powers.

As far as nearest analogues without a homebrewed drell species, amphibiousness is probably one of the main things to look for.

Drell are not amphibious, you know. Their homeworld is highly arid and desert-like, and the main cause of death for the species is Kepral's Syndrome, which is when the drell lungs absorb more moisture than they are used to, so breathing becomes difficult.

So, if anything, you should have a race sensitive to moisture.

Also, biotics is highly limited in what it can do. It can create artificial gravity (or lack of it), and it can cause damage through creating suddenly shifting gravity fields. It cannot see the future, control minds or a lot of other things psionics can do. A simple Telekinesis power already covers half of what biotics can do.

Coidzor
2010-05-14, 04:08 AM
Drell are not amphibious, you know. Their homeworld is highly arid and desert-like, and the main cause of death for the species is Kepral's Syndrome, which is when the drell lungs absorb more moisture than they are used to, so breathing becomes difficult.

So, if anything, you should have a race sensitive to moisture.

Also, biotics is highly limited in what it can do. It can create artificial gravity (or lack of it), and it can cause damage through creating suddenly shifting gravity fields. It cannot see the future, control minds or a lot of other things psionics can do. A simple Telekinesis power already covers half of what biotics can do.

Huh. How about that. ... ... The logic behind decisions in the Mass Effect universe sure is borked. Fish-men that can't deal with water so they go to live on the water world with the tentacle japanese.

...

So I'm guessing a homebrewed race with either scaling at-willish SLA/PLAs or SLAs whose uses per day are determined by HD. Maybe look at sandstorm for inspiration for water-weak critters?

The Rose Dragon
2010-05-14, 04:11 AM
Huh. How about that. ... ... The logic behind decisions in the Mass Effect universe sure is borked. Fish-men that can't deal with water so they go to live on the water world with the tentacle japanese.

That wasn't a choice for the drell, however. Hanar saved their lives once their planet was nearing inhabitability, so most drell feel they owe the hanar their lives and live in a close relationship with them.

Also, the syndrome was discovered rather recently, and the hanar scientists are working on a cure, so all is not lost.

Besides, drell are not fish-men, they are lizard-men.

Poil
2010-05-14, 04:32 AM
No love for the krogan? :smallfrown:

Hide in plain sight would fit perfectly with the character.

Hawk7915
2010-05-14, 11:45 AM
I'm starting to think that it might be easier to homebrew a "Drell" race with limited "psionic" powers if my player really wants to have them...but then, Psychic Rogue with Energy Push also seems to work well enough although it does give him a ton of abilities he cannot/should not have. And yeah, I think he'll probably end up going full Assassin or a level in Shadowdancer for HiPS.

Thanks for all the advice, folks! If you have any other good ideas, keep em' coming!

WoodenSword
2010-05-14, 11:48 AM
I suggest a homebrew race with Dark (free HiPS) template.

Class: Psionic Rogue 6/Ranger 4/Psychic Assassin 10

Weapons: Light Crossbow (pistol), Greatbow (sniper rifle)

Mewtarthio
2010-05-14, 12:06 PM
Also, biotics is highly limited in what it can do. It can create artificial gravity (or lack of it), and it can cause damage through creating suddenly shifting gravity fields. It cannot see the future, control minds or a lot of other things psionics can do. A simple Telekinesis power already covers half of what biotics can do.

Morinth would like to have a private word with you.

Anyway, I'm assuming that the player doesn't want to perfectly emulate Thane Krios, or they'd be playing a system other than 3.5 (which, last I checked, doesn't include sniper rifles that accelerate infinitesimal bits of metal to relativistic speeds). He probably wants the flavor of Thane Krios. In game, Thane's a sniper assassin with strong mental powers. If psionics aren't a perfect reflection of biotics, that's probably not important so long as the feel remains the same.

The Rose Dragon
2010-05-14, 12:07 PM
Morinth would like to have a private word with you.

That's not biotics, that's the asari racial ability to meld nervous systems cranked up to 11.

Starbuck_II
2010-05-14, 05:24 PM
Mass Effect Biotics:
1) throw (force push): Energy Push fits best.
2) Lift: Hold person + Levitate foe
3) Warp: Area Damage over time (while in area)
4) Singularity: Acts like a black hole (forces targets toward that spot). Useful for coupling for an area effect.
5) Stasis: (basically freezes them from acting- Ectoplamic Cocoon/time hop)
6) Barrier: Extra shields over and above yours. Best fit is Vigor power (temp hps).

ME 2 added:
1) Charge: Psionic Lion's charge (speed boost to bull rush like a that Fighter Substitution that deals damage)
2) Dominate: Dominate person (monster)/Control body is best fit.
3) pull: basically Lift renamed. But pulls to you.
4) Reave: Vampiric Touch plus prevents fast heal.
5) Shockwave: Earth Reaver Cleric spell.
6) Slam: Lifts target and slams to ground. Stuns temporarily.


D&D Fireball is a tech technique called incinerate instead of a Biotic.