Science of Superman - Discovery Channel [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

Beleriphon

2006-06-26, 01:03 AM

Well this is neat special. Loads of clips from the new movie and past shows, movies and cartoons. It tries to explain how Superman could actually function using real world physics, and pretty hefty dose of pseudo-science. Very cool.

One of the keys about Krypton's explosion is that it has a massively dense core made of elements like uranium and plutonium. So it exploded because of a fission reaction.

And he can fly because Supes can produce gravitons. This is of course total quantum physics so it up in the air. Eh, eh. ;D

Whats also neat is all of Superman's flight in the new film is based on Brandon Routh swimming or gliding underwater.

Edit (this will be the first of many): I've official decided the coolest thing that I've seen so far for Superman Returns is him walking up to a thug firing a chaingun at him and bullets just bouncing off Supe's chest. The the thug draws a pistol and shoots him point blank in the eye and you see the bullet just crumple and Supe's doesn't even blink as he watches the bullet hit the ground and just sort of ***** his head with that knowing look.

CelestialStick

2006-06-26, 01:31 AM

Bookman

2006-06-26, 01:35 AM

Edit (this will be the first of many): I've official decided the coolest thing that I've seen so far for Superman Returns is him walking up to a thug firing a chaingun at him and bullets just bouncing off Supe's chest. The the thug draws a pistol and shoots him point blank in the eye and you see the bullet just crumple and Supe's doesn't even blink as he watches the bullet hit the ground and just sort of ***** his head with that knowing look.

A comic in which they discuss the science of this http://archive.gamespy.com/comics/nodwick/ffn/ffn164.htm

(also a good nerdy D&D themed comic to read but only updates once a week :( )

Beleriphon

2006-06-26, 01:47 AM

Hey! I invented the graviton explanation years ago! Glad to see that it's hit the mainstream finally!

I don't think its main stream yet, but the show covered just about everything he does. The heat vision is just expending stored energy through his eyes which form a lens, like a laser. Hisi imperviousness is akin to an insects shell, which I felt was odd. At any rate its really neat when they try to explain what he does in terms of real science.

Whats also cool is the interview pieces with Bryan Singer where he explains some of his logic for the new movie. Like Supes breaking the wing off the airliner. Its an accident after he tries to stop its flat spin first.

At any rate its a great look at the new movie, and a fun thought experiment.

Holy_Knight

2006-06-26, 03:11 AM

Whats also neat is all of Superman's flight in the new film is based on Brandon Routh swimming or gliding underwater.

Cool! I wish I could have seen that. I also really like the part I quoted here, since I've always figured that flying must feel to birds really similarly to how swimming feels to us.

Ing

2006-06-26, 03:26 PM

i can bet the work vibrate and molecules were used over 500000000000000 times...like in the comics

so what about the eye balls? does he have an extra protective lense?

i like the superhard chiton explanation for his unbreakability...that's a keeper

The Glyphstone

2006-06-26, 08:49 PM

When was this aired?

CelestialStick

2006-06-26, 10:35 PM

I don't think its main stream yet, but the show covered just about everything he does. The heat vision is just expending stored energy through his eyes which form a lens, like a laser. Hisi imperviousness is akin to an insects shell, which I felt was odd. At any rate its really neat when they try to explain what he does in terms of real science.

Whats also cool is the interview pieces with Bryan Singer where he explains some of his logic for the new movie. Like Supes breaking the wing off the airliner. Its an accident after he tries to stop its flat spin first.

At any rate its a great look at the new movie, and a fun thought experiment.
I too am sorry that I missed that.

Did you know that in the first episode of The Adventures of Superman they put George Reeve on a wire to make him appear to fly, and then the wire broke? He was very angry about that so he refused to ever go on a wire again--thus the trademark "landing" jump at the end of any scene with him flying: he was actually just jumping up and they filmed him coming back down as though he were landing.

Edit: Look Ma, no hands, er, wires!

I checked Yahoo tv and didn't find a repeat airing of the Science of Superman. Of course if it had a different name...

Edit 2: I checked again under "Superman" and found nothing on Discovery. Several other networks, however, have programs about the new movie.

I'm going to see the show Wednesday at 6:30 P.M. Is anyone else going soon?

Allanon

2006-06-27, 03:57 AM

Hmm I liked the limited force field that I read about somewhere it's connected his other qualities but alas if they want to say that a super hard invisible chitinous layer above his skin exists and that causes a bullet to act the way it does when it hits him then I must mention that this makes no sense the bullet would not crumple before bouncing off oh and also even if the bullet itself poses no threat it would still exert force on him after all if we had such a layer which is thin enough to notbe detected we would get bruised by the bullet so perhaps his whole skin is like that and is also otherwise exactlly alike to a humans skin hmm and it also in the case of his eyes is not only usable for sight but also have a convinient lense to focus it

http://www.firstscience.com/site/articles/superman.asp
http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/hottopics/superheroes/superman.shtml
http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2006/06/20/513.aspx
http://superherohype.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-144270.html
http://www.starnet-database.com/dbase_deo/profiles/superman/superman.html
http://www.pjfarmer.com/secret/aliens/kryptonians.htm
some interesting links

Beleriphon

2006-06-27, 05:40 AM

I too am sorry that I missed that.
Edit 2: I checked again under "Superman" and found nothing on Discovery. Several other networks, however, have programs about the new movie.

I'm going to see the show Wednesday at 6:30 P.M. Is anyone else going soon?

It was on the Canadian version of Discovery, so I couldn't say. It also takes the name from a book of the same name, and topic.

The other suggestion as to his appearent imperviousness has to do with the graviton theory of flight. His body automatically exudes the gravitons in such a way as to redirect objects, or allow them, at a reflexive level.

As for the movie, deinately going to see it on Wednesday. I already have tickets for the 6:50pm local showing. I don't know how but we appearently have a showing at 10pm on the 27th as well, a fully day before it opens otherwise.

Ing

2006-06-27, 08:30 AM

saw a comercial for it. on the science chanel

CelestialStick

2006-06-27, 10:04 PM

It was on the Canadian version of Discovery, so I couldn't say. It also takes the name from a book of the same name, and topic.

The other suggestion as to his appearent imperviousness has to do with the graviton theory of flight. His body automatically exudes the gravitons in such a way as to redirect objects, or allow them, at a reflexive level.

As for the movie, deinately going to see it on Wednesday. I already have tickets for the 6:50pm local showing. I don't know how but we appearently have a showing at 10pm on the 27th as well, a fully day before it opens otherwise.
O! Canada! Well that explains it.

O Canada
Glorious and free!
O Canada we stand on guard for thee!

Yes, we have a 10 PM show (right now actually!) and a midnight show but I couldn't get a buddy of mine to go with so I'm waiting til tomorrow at 6:30. He has to work a real job and the last time we went to see a midnight movie he had a serious problem staying awake at work the next day.

Too bad that Allanon fellow can't use punctuation. Of course he is just a pale imitation of Gandalf. :D

Flabbicus

2006-06-27, 10:30 PM

The complaint I have about real world physics from the movie isn't Superman. It's Lois.

She gets hurled around in a plane, doesn't get a bruise, doesn't go unconscious, nearly drowns a few times, and gets attacked by a thug. Is she the woman of steel or something!?

P.S. I saw an early screening of it at 5 PM. It is over 2 and a half hours long.

TinSoldier

2006-06-27, 10:35 PM

O! Canada! Well that explains it.

O Canada
Glorious and free!
O Canada we stand on guard for thee!
What, do you watch hockey too?

CelestialStick

2006-06-28, 12:19 AM

What, do you watch hockey too?

As I kid growing up in Chicago in the heyday of the Blackhawks I did actually watch some hockey, but actually my knowing some of the lyrics to O Canada comes more from belonging to Key Club in high school. Our district of Key Club included part of Canada, who in deference to our Canadian members (of whom I never met a single one) we sang "O Canada" at the Key Club conventions. Of couse in those days Canadians still liked the United States, as our nuclear umbrella helped protect them from the Soviet Union. But, what have you done for me lately, right? ;)

Here come the Hawk!
The mighty...Blackhawks!

Edit: In those days most of the best hockey players were Canadians. Sadly, they were all pretty toothless too. :D

TinSoldier

2006-06-28, 12:43 AM

As I kid growing up in Chicago in the heyday of the Blackhawks I did actually watch some hockey, but actually my knowing some of the lyrics to O Canada comes more from belonging to Key Club in high school. Our district of Key Club included part of Canada, who in deference to our Canadian members (of whom I never met a single one) we sang "O Canada" at the Key Club conventions. Of couse in those days Canadians still liked the United States, as our nuclear umbrella helped protect them from the Soviet Union. But, what have you done for me lately, right? ;)

Here come the Hawk!
The mighty...Blackhawks!

Edit: In those days most of the best hockey players were Canadians. Sadly, they were all pretty toothless too. :DThat's so cool! By the way, most of the best hockey players are still from Canada. Or Slovakia.

I watch the Portland Winterhawks, which are affiliated (however loosely) with the Chicago Blackhawks. They have the same team symbol. They say "Heeeeere come the Hawks!" at the beginning of games. We go to 5-6 games a year.

They're in the US Division of the WHL (Western Hockey League) which is part of the CHL (Canadian Hockey League). It's major-junior hockey. A lot of the players go on to NHL careers and we follow the teams that they go to.

Anyway, we now return you to your regularly scheduled Discovery Channel Superman talk...

CelestialStick

2006-06-28, 02:42 AM

That's so cool! By the way, most of the best hockey players are still from Canada. Or Slovakia.

I watch the Portland Winterhawks, which are affiliated (however loosely) with the Chicago Blackhawks. They have the same team symbol. They say "Heeeeere come the Hawks!" at the beginning of games. We go to 5-6 games a year.

They're in the US Division of the WHL (Western Hockey League) which is part of the CHL (Canadian Hockey League). It's major-junior hockey. A lot of the players go on to NHL careers and we follow the teams that they go to.

Anyway, we now return you to your regularly scheduled Discovery Channel Superman talk...

Is that a feeder team for the Blackhawks?

So how did Slovakia get good at hockey? ;D

TinSoldier

2006-06-28, 10:48 AM

Is that a feeder team for the Blackhawks?Not really a feeder team since the players can be drafted anywhere. If they don't go directly into the NHL there's always the AHL.

These guys are just kids -- 16-20 years old. It's similar to college hockey but it's not college.

So how did Slovakia get good at hockey? ;DNot a clue.

(Okay -- don't want to continue off-topic :-[)

Ing

2006-06-28, 12:52 PM

wow this is releavent

almost enough to justify a Superman Vs NHL thread

Beleriphon

2006-06-28, 12:53 PM

wow this is releavent

almost enough to justify a Superman Vs NHL thread

Superman would win.

Zzarchov

2006-06-28, 01:17 PM

I thought superman could only leap tall buildings in a single bound, besides, being superman aint all that cool, hard to find anywhere to eat.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/06/28

Ing

2006-06-28, 01:28 PM

haha that's me at Redlobster

everyone acts so weierd when u tell them your allergic

they're like "you are ....Why?
"because they cause me to uh die?"

Beleriphon

2006-06-28, 02:42 PM

I thought superman could only leap tall buildings in a single bound, besides, being superman aint all that cool, hard to find anywhere to eat.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/06/28

He used to be able to just jump really, really far. I think it was 1/8 of a mile to start with. As things went along he could actually fly.

Jack_Banzai

2006-06-28, 04:34 PM

Hey! I invented the graviton explanation years ago! Glad to see that it's hit the mainstream finally!

Anyone very familiar with Marvel Comics could have told you the graviton theory decades ago. When the Squadron Supreme (Marvel's homage/ripoff of the JLA) appeared, Hyperion (aka not-Superman)'s flight was explained through the use of gravitons. So is Quasar's.

Sorry dude. Nothing new there. As far as pseudoscience is concerned, Marvel usually trumps DC.

Jack_Banzai

2006-06-28, 04:37 PM

He used to be able to just jump really, really far. I think it was 1/8 of a mile to start with. As things went along he could actually fly.

This is absolutely true, Superman was originally able to leap 1/8 of a mile and could press between two and six tons. As he grew in popularity, his powers were jacked up to ridiculous levels. He was even graced with superspeed reading and supergenius abilities, which is funny since now Batman is widely regarded as the great thinker and strategist of the JLA.

In fact my favorite DC lettercol of all time (circa mid 70s) deals with a reader writing in to ask who is smarter, Superman or Batman, and the editor at the time responding that Superman wins, hands down. This was shown to said editor a few years ago and he laughed and said that while his answer probably reflected accurately at the continuity at the time, in the current continuity there is no contest.

CelestialStick

2006-06-28, 09:03 PM

wow this is releavent

almost enough to justify a Superman Vs NHL thread
Heh! Even CelestialStick could beat the NHL, because well, they have just ordinary sticks. ;)

If they don't have time to prepare, Superman beats the NHL without breaking a sweat. If they do have time to prepare, Superman beats the NHL without breaking a sweat. ;)

Anyone very familiar with Marvel Comics could have told you the graviton theory decades ago. When the Squadron Supreme (Marvel's homage/ripoff of the JLA) appeared, Hyperion (aka not-Superman)'s flight was explained through the use of gravitons. So is Quasar's.

Sorry dude. Nothing new there. As far as pseudoscience is concerned, Marvel usually trumps DC.

As I recall, I created the graviton theory of Superman's flight back in the 1980s when Star Trek: The Next Generation talked about gravitons. As far as I can recall at the moment, that's when I first learned about gravitons. Can you verify that Marvel comics used gravitons as an explanation for the superpower of flight prior to the 1980s? Even if you can, of course, that doesn't change the fact that I'd never heard of the theory before I created it myself, nor that I predated DC's use of the theory by two decades, but it would be nice to find out when Marvel first started using them.

This is absolutely true, Superman was originally able to leap 1/8 of a mile and could press between two and six tons. As he grew in popularity, his powers were jacked up to ridiculous levels. He was even graced with superspeed reading and supergenius abilities, which is funny since now Batman is widely regarded as the great thinker and strategist of the JLA.

In fact my favorite DC lettercol of all time (circa mid 70s) deals with a reader writing in to ask who is smarter, Superman or Batman, and the editor at the time responding that Superman wins, hands down. This was shown to said editor a few years ago and he laughed and said that while his answer probably reflected accurately at the continuity at the time, in the current continuity there is no contest.

What is your source for 2-6 tons and 1/8 of a mile?

Yes, the Superman of my youth wasn't any less intelligent than Batman (though I don't specifically remember him being any smarter in the 1960s or 1970s), which probably helps explain some of the dichotomy in views of Superman and Batman held by older fans (like me) and young fans on the boards.

Beleriphon

2006-06-28, 09:58 PM

What is your source for 2-6 tons and 1/8 of a mile?

Yes, the Superman of my youth wasn't any less intelligent than Batman (though I don't specifically remember him being any smarter in the 1960s or 1970s), which probably helps explain some of the dichotomy in views of Superman and Batman held by older fans (like me) and young fans on the boards.

Action Comics circa 1936 or so. So unless you're rapidly approching your mid-70s, or early 80's, CS I don't think you'll recall this one. The show I was talking about actually has the cover and some of the inside pages that boldly exclaim "Superman's powers explained by Science!". It was originally that Kryton's gravity was massively higher than Earth's and thus Supes body was physically designed to just be able to handle stresses up to 1000 times higher then those found on Earth.

As for whose smarter I think that Batman isn't necessarily smarter, Batman however is a whole lot better at using his brains to his advantage. Superman doesn't need to avoid getting hit with bullets, let alone freight trains, unlike a certain fly rodent inspired crime fighter.

CelestialStick

2006-06-29, 03:52 AM

Action Comics circa 1936 or so. So unless you're rapidly approching your mid-70s, or early 80's, CS I don't think you'll recall this one. The show I was talking about actually has the cover and some of the inside pages that boldly exclaim "Superman's powers explained by Science!". It was originally that Kryton's gravity was massively higher than Earth's and thus Supes body was physically designed to just be able to handle stresses up to 1000 times higher then those found on Earth.

As for whose smarter I think that Batman isn't necessarily smarter, Batman however is a whole lot better at using his brains to his advantage. Superman doesn't need to avoid getting hit with bullets, let alone freight trains, unlike a certain fly rodent inspired crime fighter.
Superman didn't appear until 1939 so there's nothing in 1936 that says these things. Are you claiming that the show on Canadian Discovery Channel specifically mentioned 2-6 tons and 1/8th of a mile? Also, where did you get that "stresses up to 1000 times higher than those found on earth?"

The story of Krypton having higher gravity and thus giving Superman greater density, strength, etc. existed at least though the first Chris Reeve Superman movie. I think that they've gotten rid of that explanation in the current comic book continuity, but I still think of him as being being phsyically denser by several orders of magnitude.

Where did you get that avatar?

Beleriphon

2006-06-29, 08:20 AM

Superman didn't appear until 1939 so there's nothing in 1936 that says these things. Are you claiming that the show on Canadian Discovery Channel specifically mentioned 2-6 tons and 1/8th of a mile? Also, where did you get that "stresses up to 1000 times higher than those found on earth?"

Correction noted, but his first appearance was Action Comics June 1938. It was a very early comic, at best from the late 40s. The 1000 times great is from the show itself, its based on the fact that for him to do what he can do with the gravity theory it has to be at last 1000 times greater than Earth's.

The story of Krypton having higher gravity and thus giving Superman greater density, strength, etc. existed at least though the first Chris Reeve Superman movie. I think that they've gotten rid of that explanation in the current comic book continuity, but I still think of him as being being phsyically denser by several orders of magnitude.

It makes sense.

Where did you get that avatar?

Made it, I have a Batman one too, its not as nice though.

Closet_Skeleton

2006-06-29, 09:58 AM

Beleriphon

2006-06-29, 10:50 AM

This wikipedia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powers%2C_abilities_and_equipment_of_Superman explains a lot of the random changes in Superman's powers over the years. Basically he gets the standard DC hack around every decade.

That about covers it, since every decade or so he gets more powerful then they can deal with due to any number of stories written.

TinSoldier

2006-06-29, 11:14 AM

I saw an ad last night for the show. It's going to be on the National Geographic channel tomorrow night at 9pm Pacific Standard Time.

Jack_Banzai

2006-06-30, 03:57 AM

What is your source for 2-6 tons and 1/8 of a mile?

Reprints of the original Siegel and Shuster run of Superman. Various lettercols and interviews given by different Superman writers and editors. Seriously, Superman's first incarnation was about able to pick up a car or truck. It was a little while before he was running at super speed or hurling mountains.

CelestialStick

2006-06-30, 09:09 PM

Correction noted, but his first appearance was Action Comics June 1938. It was a very early comic, at best from the late 40s. The 1000 times great is from the show itself, its based on the fact that for him to do what he can do with the gravity theory it has to be at last 1000 times greater than Earth's.

It makes sense.

Made it, I have a Batman one too, its not as nice though.
It's nice that you can draw. I wish I could. Really though, you should use the Batman one and give me the Superman avatar. :D

AS for the 1000 times, you got that from the Discovery show? I'm still waiting to hear where you got the 1/8 mile and 2-6 tons.

Beleriphon

2006-06-30, 09:12 PM

It's nice that you can draw.

AS for the 1000 times, you got that from the Discovery show? I'm still waiting to hear where you got the 1/8 mile and 2-6 tons.

As mentioned at least three times now, its from the original Superman comics. It was actually printed in some of the early ones. I can't specifically mention the issues since I don't know, but the show does specifically detail the covers and several interior panels displaying such information. At a guess I'd peg them in the early to mid 40s in terms of time lines, just based on Superman's look and the style of his crest.

Edit:

Quoth the Wiki

Superman's powers develop during the 1940s, including vast increases in strength and gaining the ability to fly — the earliest comics depict Superman able to leap an eighth of a mile at a time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman

Thats from Wikipedia, and as far as I know is actually substansiated in a variety of comics. If I can dig up a cover, or an interior panel I'll post it.

CelestialStick

2006-06-30, 09:36 PM

As mentioned at least three times now, its from the original Superman comics. It was actually printed in some of the early ones. I can't specifically mention the issues since I don't know, but the show does specifically detail the covers and several interior panels displaying such information. At a guess I'd peg them in the early to mid 40s in terms of time lines, just based on Superman's look and the style of his crest.

Edit:

Quoth the Wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman

Thats from Wikipedia, and as far as I know is actually substansiated in a variety of comics. If I can dig up a cover, or an interior panel I'll post it.
Look, I'm well aware that Superman started out weaker and got progressively stronger in the Golden and Silver Ages. I probably knew that before either of you was born. My question is where you get such specific numbers, like 1/8 of a mile or 2-6 tons.

So you're saying that all of these specific numbers come from old issues of Superman in the Golden Age that you saw how?

Beleriphon

2006-06-30, 09:48 PM

So you're saying that all of these specific numbers come from old issues of Superman in the Golden Age that you saw how?

Title covers, there are a number of them actually in The Science of Superman as examples of how he started as character, and how his powers evovled.

http://superman.ws/tales2/explanation.php

There's a fun link from a 1939 edition.

http://superman.ws/tales2/twopageorigin/?page=2

The second panel specifies 1/8 of a mile, and a tremendous weight is appearently a nice sedan. At best 2 tons, so very early on he could lift a car with minimal effort. A large truck was some strain.

http://superman.ws/tales/1930s.php

This is the same site and includes different clippings and galleries from the 1930s to today. Very fun stuff.

CelestialStick

2006-06-30, 11:52 PM

Title covers, there are a number of them actually in The Science of Superman as examples of how he started as character, and how his powers evovled.

http://superman.ws/tales2/explanation.php

There's a fun link from a 1939 edition.

http://superman.ws/tales2/twopageorigin/?page=2

The second panel specifies 1/8 of a mile, and a tremendous weight is appearently a nice sedan. At best 2 tons, so very early on he could lift a car with minimal effort. A large truck was some strain.

http://superman.ws/tales/1930s.php

This is the same site and includes different clippings and galleries from the 1930s to today. Very fun stuff.
Thanks for all the links! I actually found the 1/8 of a mile figure on the Wikipedia website, although with a recent weight-"lifting" ability of 200 quintillion tons, or 1/30 the weight of the Earth. In one recent story he moved the planet Pluto, and Batman said that he's powerful enough to split the Earth in two. Of course that must be accurate since we all know that Batman is omniscient. ;)

Edit: There's also a cool story written by Siegel and Schuster in 1934--four years before the Superman publication debut--that tells the story of Superman's origins. Cool!

Beleriphon

2006-07-01, 09:56 AM

Edit: There's also a cool story written by Siegel and Schuster in 1934--four years before the Superman publication debut--that tells the story of Superman's origins. Cool!

Yeah I spotted that as well.

I did find a fun quote from Batman, I think that its Batman/Superman Adventures, "In many ways Clark is the most human of us all, and when he shoots fire down from the sky, it's hard not to think of him as a god. How fortunate for us that this never occurs to him."