Idea: Necromancer bard [3.5]

[iElf]

I saw this picture in another thread here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8423326&postcount=4)(second picture in the post), and I was instantly inspired. a bard who uses music and necromancy to achieve his means. but how to do it?

I was kind of thinking 9bard/10 sublime chord, specialising in necromantic spells, but I'm sure there are better ways to make bardic characters who consort with the undead. which kind of feats and spells would I take? and how does a Necromancer exactly work?

[Raging Gene Ray]

Have you read Libris Mortis? It has a 5 level PrC called the Dirgesinger which is exactly what you need...

I'd go Bard 7/Lyric Thamaturge 3 (Complete Mage)/Sublime Chord 2/Dirgesinger 5/??? 3.

Or Bard 7/Virtuoso 3 (Complete Adventurer)/Sublime Chord 2/Dirgesinger 5/Virtuoso 3


There's a feat in Libris Mortis called Requiem that lets your Bardic Music affect undead. Yes, even though it's a Mind-Affecting ability. In fact, it's required to be a Dirgesinger. Good for buffing your minions or getting them to fall under your control.

There's also Undead Empathy from the Eberron Campaign Setting. You get a +4 on Diplomacy checks to convince intelligent undead to work for you and you can use Diplomacy to tale to unintelligent undead.

[Tyger]

Seconding Dirgesinger and the Libris Mortis sourcebook. That book is exactly what you need to achieve your evil ends.

By the way, Bard 9 / Sublime Chord 10? How would you achieve that, as the SC has two 13 rank skill requirements, pretty much needing 10 levels before you can enter it?

[Gorgondantess]

Pah! Who wants the dirgesinger? It's totally lame. See, I had that thought some time ago, and I was thinking, how can I make necromancers more spoony? Because, of course, necrmancer+spoony=awesome. But the dirgesinger was anything but spoony... so I did it myself. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129526)

[gorfnab]

Bard 8/ Pale Master 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Pale Master 8
Bard 7/ Diresinger 2/ Pale Master 1/ Sublime Chord 2/ Pale Master 8
Bard 7/ Diresinger 2/ Pale Master 1/ Sublime Chord 1/ Pale Master 9
Requires the feat Arcane Disciple (CD): Necromancer Domain (ECS page 107)

The Harbringer (Dragon #337) bard variant might fit with some necromancy themed bards, especially if you're going for a fear based one.

[iElf]

Seconding Dirgesinger and the Libris Mortis sourcebook. That book is exactly what you need to achieve your evil ends.

By the way, Bard 9 / Sublime Chord 10? How would you achieve that, as the SC has two 13 rank skill requirements, pretty much needing 10 levels before you can enter it?

4+9=13? and I've had a look through liberis mortis for the first time now, and I think I have an idea about what I can do to raise the dead, while playing a violin. thanks for all the feedback an ideas so far. any other feats that would be good, and what kind of skill, other than the obvious would I want to skill?

[Greenish]

4+9=13?Yes, and 3+9=12.

[iElf]

....holy ****, you're right.....I totally forgot that you only can have 3+level...I kept on thinking it was 4....sorry

[gorfnab]

4+9=13?
The maximum ranks you can have in a skill are character level +3, unless you're using some extreme cheese, thus you would need to be a 10th level character in order to have a skill with 13 ranks in it.

Edit: Ninja'd

[iElf]

I've just found out that we'll be starting at lvl 12, and I kind of like the concept, so I'd like to be able to play it from there. which combination would be best? I was thinking Bard 7/ Diresinger 2/ Pale Master 1/ Sublime Chord 2 ,but I'd like to hear as may opinions as possible on this

[Pluto]

I've just found out that we'll be starting at lvl 12, and I kind of like the concept, so I'd like to be able to play it from there. which combination would be best? I was thinking Bard 7/ Diresinger 2/ Pale Master 1/ Sublime Chord 2 ,but I'd like to hear as may opinions as possible on this
Dirgesinger 2 doesn't get you much, but Pale Master 2 gets you the defining ability of most Necromancers. Are you using the Necromancy Domain (ECS) for Pale Master entry, or do you have some other trick?

If you're going to make a build along these lines, Bard 7/Dirgesinger 1/Pale Master 2/Sublime Chord 2 would probably be the way to do it.



For what it's worth, I like Dirgesinger a lot, even though it is pretty weak.
I'd probably go with something like Bard 5/Dirgesinger 5/Sublime Chord 2, using Earth Power for SC prereqs. The tradeoffs are pretty severe (3 feats, 3rd level spells), but Dirgesinger songs are neat.

[Ravens_cry]

Hmm, I like this idea.
The way I imagine it is a wild and fey looking childlike creature, barefoot in a loose shift of earth stained sackcloth, kicking up their heels while playing a reed flute, with an army of skeletons marching in locksteps behind the urchin out of the moonlit mist.
I so wish I could draw better, or paint at all.

[iElf]

Dirgesinger 2 doesn't get you much, but Pale Master 2 gets you the defining ability of most Necromancers. Are you using the Necromancy Domain (ECS) for Pale Master entry, or do you have some other trick?


hmm, I hadn't notice that...how can you access domains as a bard, if at all, other than house ruling?

[Pluto]

hmm, I hadn't notice that...how can you access domains as a bard, if at all, other than house ruling?
The easiest way is Arcane Disciple from Complete Divine.

[Forever Curious]

Hmm, I like this idea.
The way I imagine it is a wild and fey looking childlike creature, barefoot in a loose shift of earth stained sackcloth, kicking up their heels while playing a reed flute, with an army of skeletons marching in locksteps behind the urchin out of the moonlit mist.
I so wish I could draw better, or paint at all.

...wow, quite awe inspiring. i was actually picturing this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOnqjkJTMaA).

[iElf]

so this is what I have sofar:
Human STR:8 DEX: 12 CON: 14 INT: 12 WIS:16 CHA:18 (4D6, take away lowest)
1:Bard - Undead Empathy,Arcane disciple
2:Bard
3:Bard - Melodic casting
4:Bard
5:bard
6:Bard - Requiem
7:Bard
8:Bard
9:Pale master - Undead leadership
10:Pale Master
11:Sublime Chord
12: Sublime Chord - ???

any comments?

[Pluto]

Looks good.

You're getting Skill Focus (Religion) from the Frog God's Fane, right?


(FG'sF is a magical location in Complete Scoundrel that lets you pay money instead of feats for SF (knowledge) skills. This lets you qualify for Pale Master without eating a feat slot, in case you don't know.)

[iElf]

Looks good.

You're getting Skill Focus (Religion) from the Frog God's Fane, right?


(FG'sF is a magical location in Complete Scoundrel that lets you pay money instead of feats for SF (knowledge) skills. This lets you qualify for Pale Master without eating a feat slot, in case you don't know.)

I am now^^thanks for the info. I still haven't decided on my spell list though...

[OldTrees]

I would suggest mass casting of the Command Undead spell to provide an army. The Command Undead spell is available through the Necromancer Domain.

Add Chain Spell, Extend Spell and Arcane Thesis as desired to increase the size of the army.

[onthetown]

There's a spell in the Spell Compendium called Bonefiddle. You get a fiddle bow as a weapon or some such thing. Seems like it would fit that picture.

[Solophoenix]

I was just about to suggest bonefiddle, as visually it's just an amazing spell. A ghostly bow plays "hauntingly beautiful" music...on their spine.

[Eldariel]

You could use Versatile Performer to enter as Bard 5/Dirgesinger 5. Then just add Sublime Chord 2/Palemaster 8 and you are good to go. If you have Practiced Spellcaster and Krau-sigil Illumian, this won't even hurt your composite casting/animating capability.

But there seems to be an alternative: I found a feat called "Divine Inspiration" in Crystalkeep indexes. It's listed to be from Dragon 330, though I've been unable to ascertain this fact. It says "Your Bard and Cleric-levels stack to determine which Bardic Music is available to you" and "Perform is always a class skill for you". Requires Bardic Music and Turn/Rebuke Undead. This would get you an excellent Bard 1/Cloistered Cleric 19 with all Bardic Music, one level short of full Rebuking and Cleric-casting. I'll see if I could dig the feat up somewhere. But by Crystalkeep, it seems slightly perfect for this.

EDIT: Found it! It's in Dragon Magazine 333; thanks to random Crystalkeep forum thread for figuring it out. Yeah, it says "Ability to Turn Undead", but that should be easily enough handwaved. Yeah, that's my suggestion: Bard 1/Cloistered Cleric 19 with Divine Inspiration.

[Runestar]

The maximum ranks you can have in a skill are character level +3, unless you're using some extreme cheese, thus you would need to be a 10th level character in order to have a skill with 13 ranks in it.

Edit: Ninja'd

To be fair, there is a guild benefit in cityscape which increases the cap of one of your skills by 1, to 4+HD rather than 3+HD. :smallsmile:

But at a feat, it is rather steep.

[Eldariel]

To be fair, there is a guild benefit in cityscape which increases the cap of one of your skills by 1, to 4+HD rather than 3+HD. :smallsmile:

But at a feat, it is rather steep.

Two feats, to be precise. You need Favored and Primary Contact for that.

[Ravens_cry]

...wow, quite awe inspiring. i was actually picturing this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOnqjkJTMaA).
She (he, it?) giggles.
'You're funny!'
And thank you.

[CockroachTeaParty]

Everyone loves that picture of the chick with the bloody violin and the Grim Reaper.

I have trouble convincing my friends that Bards can be pretty much as badass as you want them to be. A necro-bard would be sweet for the next chance I get to play in an evil game...

[iElf]

Everyone loves that picture of the chick with the bloody violin and the Grim Reaper.

I have trouble convincing my friends that Bards can be pretty much as badass as you want them to be. A necro-bard would be sweet for the next chance I get to play in an evil game...

That's why I like playing Ebberon. we only have one good party member at the moment (a lawful stupid Paladin/dark light vindicator. but played like that on purpose, an the DM has him under control. he'll be falling soon anyway:smallbiggrin:) , and a chaotic evil anti hero would fit in quite nicely with the warforged fighter , the master transmogrifist /fire soc , and the quite pathetic squishy elven wizard

[Draxar]

As a note, I'd recommend against anything that involves walking around with a single level of Pale Master while actually playing (it's fine to take the first and second levels of it at different times if it's pre-play), as Pale Master has no class features for it's first level.

[Bankinus]

That's why I like playing Ebberon. we only have one good party member at the moment (a lawful stupid Paladin/dark light vindicator. but played like that on purpose, an the DM has him under control. he'll be falling soon anyway:smallbiggrin:) , and a chaotic evil anti hero would fit in quite nicely with the warforged fighter , the master transmogrifist /fire soc , and the quite pathetic squishy elven wizard

You are forgetting the druid cohort that is as a matter of fact good.

[iElf]

You are forgetting the druid cohort that is as a matter of fact good.

you mean the one that you forget is there all the time? who is only there if someone is in bigger trouble ,needs heal and forcefully reminds you of her presence??

[Machiavellian]

I like the "creative" usage of Bard here (bard has its limited uses)

I also suggest taking Undead Leadership and pick up a Lich Necromancer as a Cohort

[Tyger]

I like the "creative" usage of Bard here (bard has its limited uses)

I also suggest taking Undead Leadership and pick up a Lich Necromancer as a Cohort

Oh HO! Thems fighting words son.

Bard is one of the more versatile base classes, and with the addition of splatbooks, becomes one of the higher tier classes as well. Sure, a level 20 bard will likely not complete with CoDZilla or Wizard 20 for pure power, but they put most of the other classes in the PHB to shame.

Add in splatbooks, and there are few roles the bard can't fill.

[Maho-Tsukai]

I posted in another necro bard thread, but I discovered a great 3rd party Necro bard PrC. It's in the book Hollowfaust- City of Necromancers for the sacred lands campaign setting, though the class is easily adaptable for other settings. A random idea for a necro bard build occurred to me, though I have no idea how good it is. It uses the mourner as well as the Death Mage class from the dragon compendium. It would look something like the following....

Death Master 3/Bard 3/Ultimate Magus 3/Mourner 10/Other Arcane advancing PrC 1 or another level of Death Master

The Mourner gets some nice songs that act like or actually are(I forget which) spell like abilities. I have not checked out much of what they do, but they seam fittingly dark. The best thing about the mourner though is it advances any casting class you chose it to, so with this build you can cast as a 17th level Death Master giving you 9th level Death Master spells and all the power of a 17th level tier 1 caster in addition to your bardic abilities. Death Master casts on intelligence, however, so unless you want to change your stats it won't work with your current stat lineup. Of Course your rebuking will be sucky, but you still get all the power of the Death Master spell list plus bardic skills and the mourner songs.

You still get 17th level casting for death master even though ultimate magus advances the lower arcane class for one of the levels you take it. The reason? Even though you still have bard spells of level 1 and death master spells of level 2 they have the same CL when you enter the class.(3 CL each) thus on the ultimate magus level which advance your lowest class, you get to chose which class to advance casting in and you just chose Death Master.

Of course if you don't like death master you can always go wizard 3/bard 3/ultimate magus 3/mourner 10/ other arcane advancing PrC 1 or another level of wizard, you don't get rebuke and you have to wait longer to get animate dead, but you get a wider spell selection and the ability to, theoretically, learn every sorcerer/wizard spell in the game.

You lack rebuke this way, but the first build did not make great use of it anyway. If you want to be really gross and flavorful at the same time, you can take mother cyst at first level and use the necrotic cyst spells. However, if you take the wiz route, you lose out on many key necromancy spells that the death master has, such as desecrate. You also have to wait a LOT longer then a Death Master dose for actual animation of undead.