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The Rabbler
2010-05-13, 07:54 PM
I need some Ideas for a psychic warrior in a game I'm going to be playing soon.

won't actually mattering until level 10, so any builds starting from there would be great.

Important Stuff

Str: 14 + 2d4 (it's a unique system)
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Int: 11
Wis: 18
Cha: 12

I can add another +2d4 to one of the physical scores.

Human w/ one flaw. right now I've got Able Learner and Hidden Talent, so I need another one from level 1.

/Important stuff

any ideas/builds would be awesome. I'll probably be the main melee'er but it's difficult to tell at this point. Maybe tashlatora, but I'm fuzzy as to how effective that is.

also, I'm not very well-versed in psionic focus and it's usefulness beyond passive feat-buffs.:smallfrown:

Lycanthromancer
2010-05-13, 09:23 PM
I need some Ideas for a psychic warrior in a game I'm going to be playing soon.

won't actually mattering until level 10, so any builds starting from there would be great.

Important Stuff

Str: 14 + 2d4 (it's a unique system)
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Int: 11
Wis: 18
Cha: 12

I can add another +2d4 to one of the physical scores.

Human w/ one flaw. right now I've got Able Learner and Hidden Talent, so I need another one from level 1.

/Important stuff

any ideas/builds would be awesome. I'll probably be the main melee'er but it's difficult to tell at this point. Maybe tashlatora, but I'm fuzzy as to how effective that is.

also, I'm not very well-versed in psionic focus and it's usefulness beyond passive feat-buffs.:smallfrown:Psychic warriors can be built in any number of ways. What do you want to do for the group, and what's the optimization level you're going for? What books are allowed?

Would you rather rely on being unarmed and unarmored, or a psionic master of weapons? Would you care to mix systems a bit, as Magic of Incarnum goes very well with psionics (especially psywars)? Can you use alternative class features and exotic races?

Regardless, you may want to add that extra +2d4 to your Con.

Escheton
2010-05-13, 10:14 PM
drunken master with profession (sailor)?

gallagher
2010-05-13, 10:20 PM
if you can afford it, take 2 levels of monk. you get evasion, take tashalora or whatever it is called, where you can make your psychic levels stack with monk for some of those monk abilities. have concealing amorpha and inertial armor.

expand and vigor are also really good. i suggest expand if you have to choose between the two

Optimystik
2010-05-13, 10:31 PM
If you're going Tashalatora monk, it's far better to go with Ardent than Psywar since the martial weapon prof. won't matter anyway.

As a Psywar, either grab the mantled ACF (so you can painlessly learn Metamorphosis, and/or grab a handy granted ability) or Soulbound Weapon so you're never unarmed.

jokey665
2010-05-13, 11:09 PM
drunken master with profession (sailor)?

please tell me that's a reference to what i hope it is.

Cealocanth
2010-05-13, 11:14 PM
I didn't think a psychic warrior could exist. It seems a psychic would have toom uch trouble concentrating to be the main tank, then again, a wizard takes more concentration...

Lycanthromancer
2010-05-13, 11:17 PM
I didn't think a psychic warrior could exist. It seems a psychic would have toom uch trouble concentrating to be the main tank, then again, a wizard takes more concentration...Someone honing his spirit and body into perfect synthesis of mind and matter?

Considering martial arts are as much mental as physical, I don't know why this would be at all unusual.

If anything, the fighter is rather mind-blowing, considering how useless it is at anything but "I hit it." I mean, what warrior is so completely oblivious to the world around him that he doesn't even have Spot, Listen, or Search as class skills?

The Rabbler
2010-05-13, 11:33 PM
sorry my reply took so long...

Books allowed: Core, Completes, Races, PHB2, and A&EG

I'm looking for any build that will let me function as a party member. Just general Psywar builds would be great.

Lycanthromancer gave me a nice trippy-tank build on my last thread and that kind of thing is what I'm looking for. builds in general that would be useful to have around. Exactly what we need will become apparent when we get to higher levels, so options are what I'm looking for.

as for optimization level, how about something that won't be able to solo entire encounters. Something that can pull it's weight (maybe a little bit more than it's weight) without stealing the spotlight on every encounter.

and I will probably be going with the Soulbound Weapon ACF (I really like how it works)

sonofzeal
2010-05-13, 11:36 PM
Tashalatora PsyWar is totally viable. I've been playing one recently, and he's quite effective. PsyWar effectively deals with just about all the major weaknesses of the Monk class, so the resulting character plays rather much like a Monk except without the suck. Psi Lion's Charge, Inertial Armor, and Expansion are just about required, but everything else is pure gravy.

Optimystik
2010-05-14, 12:00 AM
If anything, the fighter is rather mind-blowing, considering how useless it is at anything but "I hit it." I mean, what warrior is so completely oblivious to the world around him that he doesn't even have Spot, Listen, or Search as class skills?

And what's worse - he is so strapped for skill points that becoming observant like that means he sucks at jumping, balancing and climbing :smalltongue: And vice-versa!


as for optimization level, how about something that won't be able to solo entire encounters. Something that can pull it's weight (maybe a little bit more than it's weight) without stealing the spotlight on every encounter.

If you don't want to solo encounters... then don't, there's no reason to limit what your build is capable of in order to keep from hogging the spotlight. Potential is just that, potential, which doesn't become actual unless you make it so.

Anyway, rememberr that once you pick your Soulbound Weapon you're stuck with it, so make sure to pick the weapon you want to end your build with, like that spiked chain. It doesn't matter if you can't wield it from the outset (due to needing EWP, etc.) because you can always manifest call weaponry normally until you can.


Psi Lion's Charge, Inertial Armor, and Expansion are just about required, but everything else is pure gravy.

Hustle and Vigor are staples as well, particularly if he grabs a psicrystal for the latter.

The Rabbler
2010-05-14, 12:08 AM
is there a psychic warrior handbook on some board that I could look at? my google-fu failed to find one. I ask because there is a lot for me to learn about the psywar, apparently.

So far, all I've really seen around the boards, as far as the Psywar goes, has been tashlatora and trippy-tanks (I like that term :smalltongue:). Is there anything else that's worth considering?

and what are some good tashlatora builds? I've heard that Psywar 18/Monk 2 is good, but, again, I'm inexperienced with psionics.

Draz74
2010-05-14, 12:11 AM
I'd say straight Psychic Warrior and Tashalatora-based Psychic Warrior are pretty equal. Just depends which fits your character concept better.

I like Half-Giant (or Goliath) Psychic Warriors with guisarmes or spike chains, focused on tripping.

I like the King of Smack (toned down a little): pouncing Psychic Warriors who do massive damage with oversized (via various methods) Claws of the Beast.

I like the idea in this thread of a Psychic Warrior (perhaps with Tashalatora/Drunken Master) pirate.

Really, it's a pretty flexible class to build around various character concepts.

Lycanthromancer
2010-05-14, 12:26 AM
Psychic warriors can do just about anything that fighters can do, with the only real exception being dungeoncrashing, basically. And they can do so much more it's not even funny.

Care for a mounted combat build? I can get you one fairly easily by level 10. And it'll only require metamorphosis for your psicrystal/mount (though of course the whole build works better if you use it on the both of you).

What alignment are you wanting to be? If you want to be Lawful Evil, I could also get you a crafting build, which works really well if can use an enveloping pit.

Any backstory info you want to give?

Pluto
2010-05-14, 12:27 AM
is there a psychic warrior handbook on some board that I could look at? my google-fu failed to find one. I ask because there is a lot for me to learn about the psywar, apparently.
The format's all ****ed up, but this (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19539114/Psychic_Warrior_Build_Guide_38;_Compendium_Revised ) is the only psychic warrior handbook I know of. It's more a collection of builds than anything, but you might get some ideas there.

This thread (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2926.0) is more readable. It has some very helpful discussion on how and why a psychic warrior works. It's not a handbook, but there's some good advice and some solid (but not cheesy) models to draw from.

sonofzeal
2010-05-14, 12:40 AM
Hustle and Vigor are staples as well, particularly if he grabs a psicrystal for the latter.
I haven't found the need, personally. With Inertial Armor backed up by Monk AC Bonus, I've actually got the highest AC in the whole party, and quite decent saves. Vigor's still an amazing power, but if I'm in a position to really need it then the rest of the party's probably dying, and I find the standard action is too high a price. It's certainly worth consideration, along with Offensive Precog to shore up those attack bonuses which are my biggest weakness as a Tashalatora PsiWar so far.

Hustle, too, is worth considering. I'm not sure you need both Hustle and Lion's Charge, and I tend to favour Lion's Charge personally. Certainly there's arguments to be made in favour of Hustle though, and it might be the optimal choice, but I went with Lion's Charge and it's worked for me.

Escheton
2010-05-14, 12:41 AM
please tell me that's a reference to what i hope it is.

don't know about you but "what shall we do with the drunken sailor" popped into my head.

Lycanthromancer
2010-05-14, 12:47 AM
Linked Power is basically standard-issue for any self-buffer. Two buffs for one action (often swift) is too good to pass up.

And a complete non-sequitur, spoilered for off-topicness:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zu2-i2BSZyQ&fmt=18

lsfreak
2010-05-14, 12:49 AM
I haven't found the need, personally. With Inertial Armor backed up by Monk AC Bonus, I've actually got the highest AC in the whole party, and quite decent saves. Vigor's still an amazing power, but if I'm in a position to really need it then the rest of the party's probably dying, and I find the standard action is too high a price.
That's what Linked Power is for. Psionic Lion's Charge + linked Vigor. Hell, if you really need to survive and don't think you're going to need many PP after the fight, you can chain Hustle linked with a maxed Vigor, using the Hustle to get psionically focused with Psionic Meditation. My psionic-fu isn't strong, but I was thinking Linked Power (with or without Psionic Meditation) was a staple of PsyWarrior builds.

jokey665
2010-05-14, 12:57 AM
don't know about you but "what shall we do with the drunken sailor" popped into my head.

Yep, that's exactly what I thought.

sonofzeal
2010-05-14, 01:02 AM
That's what Linked Power is for. Psionic Lion's Charge + linked Vigor. Hell, if you really need to survive and don't think you're going to need many PP after the fight, you can chain Hustle linked with a maxed Vigor, using the Hustle to get psionically focused with Psionic Meditation. My psionic-fu isn't strong, but I was thinking Linked Power (with or without Psionic Meditation) was a staple of PsyWarrior builds.
I'd rather link in Offensive Precog, because attack bonuses are hurting otherwise since you're multiclassing two different 3/4 BAB classes. Vigor is more important on low-hp, low-AC character like many Psion builds, but if you're paying attention to your AC then you shouldn't be taking too many hits and can afford to pass on Vigor.

Also, Tashalatora PsiWars are usually seriously starved for pp. You really have to conserve, especially if you plan on tossing out many high-augment effects during the day.

lsfreak
2010-05-14, 01:11 AM
I'd rather link in Offensive Precog, because attack bonuses are hurting otherwise since you're multiclassing two different 3/4 BAB classes. Vigor is more important on low-hp, low-AC character like many Psion builds, but if you're paying attention to your AC then you shouldn't be taking too many hits and can afford to pass on Vigor.

Makes sense. My point was more from the action-economy side of things, since you said that if you were in a position to need Vigor you probably couldn't afford the action to activate it.

tyckspoon
2010-05-14, 01:12 AM
I'd rather link in Offensive Precog, because attack bonuses are hurting otherwise since you're multiclassing two different 3/4 BAB classes. Vigor is more important on low-hp, low-AC character like many Psion builds, but if you're paying attention to your AC then you shouldn't be taking too many hits and can afford to pass on Vigor.

Also, Tashalatora PsiWars are usually seriously starved for pp. You really have to conserve, especially if you plan on tossing out many high-augment effects during the day.

..which makes the suggestion of Offensive Precognition rather strange to me, because you pretty much have to full augment it to make it a useful buff and you're going to have to do it in every fight (psionics does provide pretty efficient sources of HP and AC, tho, so if you're going to rely on manifest buffs to cover one of your bases I would build offensively and Link Inertial Armor/Vigor/Thicken Skin/Concealing Amorpha/Force Screen to cover your defenses.)

Lycanthromancer
2010-05-14, 01:17 AM
I generally rely on one or two max-augmented inertial armors per day, along with a quick (greater) concealing amorpha for protecting myself from physical attacks (metamorphosis alone is insanely awesome for offense, defense, and utility all three), but none of that will do you any good at all against other kinds of attacks, such as AoE attacks.

Temporary hit points will protect you against pretty much anything AC is good for (though not everything, granted), and also affects things such as fireball as well. AC also won't protect you against natural 20s, but vigor will.

Basically, it's yet another defense. Very useful, especially if combined with share pain (augment for half the amount and it'll protect you just as well).

The Rabbler
2010-05-14, 01:17 AM
backstory is that me and my party were all farmers. we use a homebrewed system in which we start as commoners, then proceed to NPC classes, then to PC classes, while buying off our previous classes. by level 10, we're full PC class and no NPC classes anymore.

because our stats were pretty much derived from the order of our rolls, I thought I might be able to make a workable psychic warrior.

backstory complete.


anyway, I think I'll be going with a tashlatora build. my new and improved questions: how do I do this, what feats are important, and when does this become viable?

sonofzeal
2010-05-14, 01:24 AM
..which makes the suggestion of Offensive Precognition rather strange to me, because you pretty much have to full augment it to make it a useful buff and you're going to have to do it in every fight (psionics does provide pretty efficient sources of HP and AC, tho, so if you're going to rely on manifest buffs to cover one of your bases I would build offensively and Link Inertial Armor/Vigor/Thicken Skin/Concealing Amorpha/Force Screen to cover your defenses.)
Intertial Armor lasts hours-per-level, you can activate it when you start adventuring and might only need to fully augment it once (or not at all, with Extend Power or high enough level). It's honestly one of the first powers I'd pick as a Tashalatora. That, plus Monk AC Bonus, will generally give you a better AC than most people in your party.

Other defensive powers are nice too, especially Amorpha, but if you're starved for pp (and you probably are as a Psiwar and especially a multiclassing one) then I'd say Vigor is a pretty low priority. It might reduce the amount of healing you'll need, but a Rags of Restraint will cover that quite well anyway.

And even just getting a point or two off of Offensive Precog can be worth it. Seriously, attack bonus is one of the really critical areas to shore up as a Tashalatora Psiwar. Your multiclassing means you'll likely be even less accurate than a straight Monk, so it's going to be one of your major concerns if you plan on using Flurry in combat.

Keld Denar
2010-05-14, 08:45 AM
Do note that Tashalatora reduces flurry penalties, so you only have a -1 at level 5, and no penalty from level 9 onward. Lots of people miss this aspect.

Optimystik
2010-05-14, 08:52 AM
I'd rather link in Offensive Precog, because attack bonuses are hurting otherwise since you're multiclassing two different 3/4 BAB classes.

That's an easy fix - Fractional BAB. Now you have the BAB of a monk = your character level.


I haven't found the need, personally. With Inertial Armor backed up by Monk AC Bonus, I've actually got the highest AC in the whole party, and quite decent saves.

There are plenty of attacks that ignore both - even the lowly Magic Missile. But Vigor will protect against those.

sonofzeal
2010-05-14, 10:44 AM
That's an easy fix - Fractional BAB. Now you have the BAB of a monk = your character level.
That's technically not the official rule though, and I'm generally going to assume that people are playing by the official rules here. And, even with fractional BAB, you're still no more accurate than a Monk. That's not such a good thing.



There are plenty of attacks that ignore both - even the lowly Magic Missile. But Vigor will protect against those.
Granted... but it's a much lower priority. With above average saves and AC, as well as various other options at your disposal (Energy Adaptation was one I went for), you really don't get much mileage out of Vigor, and it's a pp sink at the best of times. Certainly you should expect to take hp damage, but you shouldn't be in any major danger of dropping except in TPK scenarios, and even then you'll likely be one of the last on their feet. I've been playing my Tashalatora for months now, and Vigor isn't even on the radar of powers I think might be helpful.

Lycanthromancer
2010-05-14, 11:10 AM
backstory is that me and my party were all farmers. we use a homebrewed system in which we start as commoners, then proceed to NPC classes, then to PC classes, while buying off our previous classes. by level 10, we're full PC class and no NPC classes anymore.

because our stats were pretty much derived from the order of our rolls, I thought I might be able to make a workable psychic warrior.

backstory complete.


anyway, I think I'll be going with a tashlatora build. my new and improved questions: how do I do this, what feats are important, and when does this become viable?Basically, anything that would be useful as a psychic warrior is useful as a Talashtora psychic warrior, with a few slight modifications. You get the unarmed strike progression of the monk (which stacks with natural weapon progressions - though you might not be able to do so with a flurry of blows), so you'll be awesome offensively, and you'll get the Wisdom bonus to AC and evasion (assuming you take 2 levels in monk).

Technically, due to the wording of the feat and the prereqs required, you won't actually need to multiclass into monk at all (though your DM may say otherwise), as levels of psychic warrior count as levels of monk for determining the benefits granted by the feat (so psychic warrior 1 counts as monk 1 even without levels in monk).

Basically, you'll want to capitalize on your full attacks via pouncing, and increase your mobility through anything that improves your ability to move - whether that be through mounted combat, speed increases via feats, items, and powers, flight, short-range teleportation (soulmelds are good for this), and so on. Work on synergizing your ability to move with your ability to full-attack on a charge.

If you're eschewing metamorphosis grab other means of adding natural attacks to your attack routine (and Multiattack to reduce penalties), such as bite of the wolf, claws of the beast, form of doom, Illithid Grapple, Shape Soulmeld, grafts, and so on. Also boost your Wisdom and Strength as high as you can to improve power point acquisition and damage output.

Really, I'd use Magic of Incarnum heavily in this, if at all possible (beg, borrow, and steal from your DM, if need be). Otherwise, use a race with Strength bonuses or special abilities that capitalize on mobility or damage (illumian human focused on Strength-casting would be awesome for this - D.A.D. all the way, baby).

And, of course, damage multipliers from Power Attack, Leap Attack, Shock Trooper, Spirited Charge, and so forth.

The Rabbler
2010-05-14, 05:10 PM
There will be no Magic of Incarnum allowed. The DM was pretty insistent on what books he allowed.

If I don't actually need monk levels to take Tashlatora, wouldn't straight psywar 20 be best?

and should I be focusing on natural attacks or unarmed strikes with this build?

Optimystik
2010-05-14, 05:20 PM
If I don't actually need monk levels to take Tashlatora, wouldn't straight psywar 20 be best?

Please keep in mind that this is an extremely cheesy reading of the feat and only the most lenient DMs will let it slide.

Lycanthromancer
2010-05-14, 05:26 PM
There will be no Magic of Incarnum allowed. The DM was pretty insistent on what books he allowed.

If I don't actually need monk levels to take Tashlatora, wouldn't straight psywar 20 be best?

and should I be focusing on natural attacks or unarmed strikes with this build?If Secrets of Sarlona isn't allowed, you can't use Talashtora anyway.

Pure psychic warrior is excellent, though there are some dips here and there (such as lion totem barbarian) that are definitely worth it.

Maybe psychic warrior/slayer? Or if you can get Hyperconscious, psychic warrior/ghostbreaker/slayer?

The Rabbler
2010-05-14, 08:00 PM
If Secrets of Sarlona isn't allowed, you can't use Talashtora anyway.

:smallfrown:


Pure psychic warrior is excellent, though there are some dips here and there (such as lion totem barbarian) that are definitely worth it.

any suggestions would be awesome.



Maybe psychic warrior/slayer? Or if you can get Hyperconscious, psychic warrior/ghostbreaker/slayer?

I was thinking about psywar/slayer; guess it's my only choice now that tashlatora is out.

what is hyperconscious and what is ghostbreaker?

The Glyphstone
2010-05-14, 08:01 PM
Hyperconscious is an excellent 3rd-party Psionics-focused splatbook. I'll bet Ghostslayer is a prestige class printed in it.

Lycanthromancer
2010-05-14, 08:16 PM
Ghostbreaker is, indeed, a PrC in Hyperconscious (written by Bruce Cordell - take a look at the front of your XPH). It's full manifesting and full BAB. Gives you turn undead, and a few other good benefits vs undead.

On that note, Hyperconscious is awesome.

The Rabbler
2010-05-14, 10:11 PM
Hyperconscious sounds like fun...

how does Ghostbreaker compare with a Slayer? It was my understanding that Slayer was good because of the selective Mind Blank.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-05-14, 10:16 PM
Ghostbreaker is, indeed, a PrC in Hyperconscious (written by Bruce Cordell - take a look at the front of your XPH). It's full manifesting and full BAB. Gives you turn undead, and a few other good benefits vs undead.

On that note, Hyperconscious is awesome.

:ears perking up: so If I take ghostbreaker I can use those turn attempts to build some tasty devotion feats such as law, animal... trickery?

:evilgrin:

Lycanthromancer
2010-05-14, 10:49 PM
Hyperconscious sounds like fun...

how does Ghostbreaker compare with a Slayer? It was my understanding that Slayer was good because of the selective Mind Blank.It's a 5 level PrC
-Grants +5 BAB
-Grants +5 MLs
-Good Fort and Will
-Turn undead as ML=cleric-2
-Detect undead at will while focused
-Deals +2 points per ML of damage on any one attack class level+Cha mod/day
-Ignores the first negative level gained from any attack while focused
-Either auto-attempts a free turning attempt or deals negative levels to any creature that successfully deals negative levels to him
-And gains some really nice bonuses to turning checks (ML=cleric+2)

The Rabbler
2010-05-14, 11:59 PM
It's a 5 level PrC
-Grants +5 BAB
-Grants +5 MLs
-Good Fort and Will
-Turn undead as ML=cleric-2
-Detect undead at will while focused
-Deals +2 points per ML of damage on any one attack class level+Cha mod/day
-Ignores the first negative level gained from any attack while focused
-Either auto-attempts a free turning attempt or deals negative levels to any creature that successfully deals negative levels to him
-And gains some really nice bonuses to turning checks (ML=cleric+2)

... I WANT!

I hope this is allowed. thank you for showing this to me.